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The Glumslinger posted:Also, I'm going to a Sanderson book signing thing, so if anyone has some questions, I'll try to ask them End of book spoilers: I always found it fishy that Vasher used the term 'investiture'. I guess my hunch that he worldhops is correct! Tunicate fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Dec 31, 2015 |
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Mar 6, 2014 10:59
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I still haven't finished so I really shouldn't be here in the land of redacted but having just read chapter 51 I can't shake this Empire Strikes Back feeling. Tragedy feels just over the Horizon and I fear it's coming for Adolin. Also, that's totally Wit at the fair years ago with Shallan, right?
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Mar 6, 2014 11:32
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api call girl posted:His widow. Well, that and Mraille and the other Ghostbloods/misc factions. This is a work of epic fantasy - I honestly love the countless intertwining characters/factions. I admit some of it sometimes goes over my head a bit, and I have a poor memory of Warbreaker and Elantris so many of the less obvious cameos are not immediately recognizable to me, but one of the appeals of the books so far to me is the whole mysterious, initially alien and incomprehensible world/mythology/society it's set in slowly being revealed and explained and making sense and part of some grander tapestry, and all the factions are part of this, to me. Of course, still being so early it feels like we're getting just tantalizing glimpses of what's really happening and it's torture - though there was a whole lot more plot development in this than i'd expect for book two in a ten plus book series.
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Mar 6, 2014 13:39
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I dunno, I'm already sick of secret conspiracies, it's like fantasy 9/11 truthers at this point, they're simultaneously too competent and too incompetent and too redundant to exist. I was ok when it was just Ghostbloods and the Diagram, I guess, but now they're every-goddamn-where and unless cards are laid out on the table in very short order I'm pretty much hostile to the entire idea already.
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Mar 6, 2014 15:02
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Part of the annoyance with the various conspiratorial groups is that they're made obvious to us by point of view characters. To me a comparison would be with A Song of Ice and Fire, where there are probably even more groups scheming. The difference is that in the latter people don't sit around talking about their allegiances, goals, and enemies outright, and for the most part we are forced to infer from second or third hand accounts what they might be attempting to do. Sanderson in this book doesn't do enough to preserve the mystique of them, nor does he really make any case for why they even should know about the others.
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Mar 6, 2014 15:26
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Since nobody actually talked about wether they found the book good or not: I really liked the book with the exception of one plot line Moash and a certain trope he used too many times despite claiming he dislikes it (very big spoiler: the trope of people who appear and are assumed by all to be dead not being dead). The Puppy Bowl posted:Also, that's totally Wit at the fair years ago with Shallan, right? Confirmed later in the book. The chapter also gives a clue that Wit is a mistborn api call girl posted:His widow. Well, that and Mraille and the other Ghostbloods/misc factions. It's a big series, having plenty of factions makes sense as not all of them will be relevant all the time. I like it honestly. But there are a lot, yes. A list so far: * Ghostbloods *** Leader: Thaidakar *** Members: Shallan's Father, Kabsal, Mraize, Iyatil (the masked woman), etc *** Objectives: kill Jasnah, spy on and kill Amaram, ??? * Sons of Honor *** Members: Amaran, Gavilar, Restares *** Objectives: bring back Heralds & old gods Parshendi (might be the same), resurrect the church * Skybreakers *** Leader: Darkness/Nin *** Members: Shallan's brother, Szeth? *** Objectives: kill Amaram, kill Lift, kill Ym * Diagram *** Leader: Taravangian *** Members: Graves, Moash, friends with Gavilar *** Objectives: save the world by following the Diagram, kill Dalinar * Envisagers *** Members: Teft's family *** Objectives: bring back the Knights Radiant * Stone Shaman's *** Members: part of the Shin *** Objectives: control Honorblades, ??? * Hoid *** Members: Wit *** Objectives: defeat Odium? * Ardents *** Members: all ardents *** Objectives: ??? * Stormwarden *** Members: group of scholars, seen with Amaram and Taravangian *** Objectives: predict highstorms, ??? * 17th Shard *** Members: These people in the purelake *** Objectives: Find Wit * Oldbloods *** Members: Teleb *** Objectives: ??? (pretty much never mentioned) * Unknown *** Shallan's mother & friend: wanted to kill Shallan for being a surgebinder It is possible that The Sons of Honor and the Diagram work together. Walh Hara fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Mar 6, 2014 |
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Mar 6, 2014 15:35
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I'm still finding the language he uses to be jarring. Too much "yeah" and "yup" and "really" (as in "really hard"). It just doesn't work for his characters or setting. The chapter where the character "gets awesome" and has things happen "super-fast" is just embarrassing.
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Mar 6, 2014 17:05
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api call girl posted:worldbuilding/end of book My guess on the shardplate is that every Radiant has 2 Surges, one primary and one secondary. The dpminant spren becomes the blade, then they bond with the subordinate for the armor. The Stormfather spren seems to have a lot to do with assigning spren, so now Dalinar having bonded Stormfather as Bondsmith may be able to assign/craft new fully powered plate. Question, though: did any of the bonded spren have the same reaction to Shardplate that they did to the Shardblades (and by the by, I'm personally going with using the term "Shardblade" for one made from a dead spren and "Oathblade" for one that's an alternate form of a living spren, because there's definitely some big differences)? I'm not sure they did. Also, it's interesting that stormspren are apparently a type of Voidspren, given that the Stormfather himself is more-or-less the ghost of Honor and is the progenitor of the normal spren. Something odd going on there, I think. I'm also left wondering if there are any spren linked to Cultivation instead, to say nothing of whether Cultivation is still alive (although I'm guessing she is, since I doubt Odium/Rayse would still be in this solar system if he'd murdered and splintered all the local Shards; at the very least, he'd be on Roshar itself instead of Braize). Ithaqua posted:I'm still finding the language he uses to be jarring. Too much "yeah" and "yup" and "really" (as in "really hard"). It just doesn't work for his characters or setting. The chapter where the character "gets awesome" and has things happen "super-fast" is just embarrassing. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Mar 6, 2014 |
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Mar 6, 2014 17:28
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The Sandman posted:That chapter is, IIRC, from the perspective of an uneducated thirteen-year old who's probably spent most of her life on the streets. What do you think she's going to sound like? I would expect that she wouldn't sound like an American 13 year old. I think it's a deliberate style choice on his part, but a bad one. Olver from WoT was fine, assuming Brandon Sanderson wrote the sections from his perspective and not Robert Jordan.
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Mar 6, 2014 17:40
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The Sandman posted:Question, though: did any of the bonded spren have the same reaction to Shardplate that they did to the Shardblades (and by the by, I'm personally going with using the term "Shardblade" for one made from a dead spren and "Oathblade" for one that's an alternate form of a living spren, because there's definitely some big differences)? I'm not sure they did. We haven't seen anything to imply that shardplates and shardblades come from the same source. Renarin was wearing his shardplate just fine, but when he took one of the dead shardblades he broke down. Also Syl has specifically only mentioned that shardblades make her uncomfortable, but has said nothing about the armor. It's possible the Knights Radiant figured out how to created their own armor based. Given that these have to be "powered" by a gem they seem more like really advanced fabrials. Also, could it be that voidspren are just spren that sided with Odium? Honorspren/Truthspren are just spren that sided with the Herals/Knights Radiant after all, and Syl does go against her father's wishes when she bonds with Kaladin, especially the second time, so I don't think he has absolute control over his children. Spren are ideas/concepts after all, so maybe they just go to whichever side they relate to most.
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Mar 6, 2014 18:16
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The Sandman posted:Question, though: did any of the bonded spren have the same reaction to Shardplate that they did to the Shardblades (and by the by, I'm personally going with using the term "Shardblade" for one made from a dead spren and "Oathblade" for one that's an alternate form of a living spren, because there's definitely some big differences)? I'm not sure they did. I had initially been under the impression that Nightmother is to cultivation-spren as Stormfather is to Honor-spren, but things don't seem to work out so cleanly as that. The weird bit is that for at least some of the Knights Radiant spren, who all presumably come from Honor and not just the 'honorspren', some of them seem to be the sort of 'natural forces' spren that would PRESUMABLY be Cultivation's shtick, just granted intelligence - windspren into honorspren, and the plant-spren the thief girl had. It's possible that since presumably the world was created by an interplay between Cultivation and Honor, (and maybe Odium, though he may have come later?) that some (all..?) spren are from both of them instead of just one of them. Then again, there's also this 'old magic' that we know nothing about that's presumably all Cultivation's shtick.
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Mar 6, 2014 20:07
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Well the sanderlanche became the sanderstorm and I'm cool with it. The only bad thing about my first gen kindle is that it's hard to flip back around and check out the cosmere details
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Mar 6, 2014 20:23
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Nearly done with it, but before I forget, gotta make a comment about one of the early interludes. I really like Rysn, enough to remember her from the first book. I don't really know why, I just think that her chapters--especially this book's interlude--were really fun to read. I kind of hope we see more of her in the next few books. There's just this perfect balance of "...Wait, what?" with "Okay, I'm rolling with it" that made her interlude one of my favorite bits of the book.
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Mar 6, 2014 20:33
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Narmi posted:
Aren't fabrials just imprisoned spren? I recall reading somewhere that is what they truly are (and its hinted in an interlude in book 1 by the spren researchers "this might change the way we make fabrials"). So shardplate would still need a spren at some stage to give it 'life'
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Mar 6, 2014 20:46
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Lobsterpillar posted:Aren't fabrials just imprisoned spren? I recall reading somewhere that is what they truly are (and its hinted in an interlude in book 1 by the spren researchers "this might change the way we make fabrials"). So shardplate would still need a spren at some stage to give it 'life' Shardblade Spren were given "life" (intelligence/sentience) by bonding and then that life was later removed when the Radiants abandoned their vows. Shardplate, if the same as a Fabriel, might contain Spren that never had "life" as they describe it to begin with.
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Mar 6, 2014 21:12
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Lobsterpillar posted:Aren't fabrials just imprisoned spren? I recall reading somewhere that is what they truly are (and its hinted in an interlude in book 1 by the spren researchers "this might change the way we make fabrials"). So shardplate would still need a spren at some stage to give it 'life' Worldbuilding spoiler. Yes, but apparantly gems (and gemhearts) also contain spren, probably also imprisoned. Hopeford posted:Nearly done with it, but before I forget, gotta make a comment about one of the early interludes. I really like Rysn, enough to remember her from the first book. I don't really know why, I just think that her chapters--especially this book's interlude--were really fun to read. I kind of hope we see more of her in the next few books. There's just this perfect balance of "...Wait, what?" with "Okay, I'm rolling with it" that made her interlude one of my favorite bits of the book. I expect that she and Lift will be among the main protagonists of the books 6-10. If I recall correctly, there's a time skip planned, so in these books they should be old enough to play an important part. The Sandman posted:Also, it's interesting that stormspren are apparently a type of Voidspren, given that the Stormfather himself is more-or-less the ghost of Honor and is the progenitor of the normal spren. Something odd going on there, I think. I'm also left wondering if there are any spren linked to Cultivation instead, to say nothing of whether Cultivation is still alive (although I'm guessing she is, since I doubt Odium/Rayse would still be in this solar system if he'd murdered and splintered all the local Shards; at the very least, he'd be on Roshar itself instead of Braize). More worldbuilding spoilers, some of it from Q&A sessions of Brandon: the normal sprens are either from honor, from cultivation, from both honor and cultivation, or from adonalsium (although these appear to be uncommon). It is heavily implied that voidspren are from Odium. It is certain the nightmother is either Cultivation herself or of Cultivation, many people believing the former.
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Mar 6, 2014 21:12
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Lobsterpillar posted:Aren't fabrials just imprisoned spren? I recall reading somewhere that is what they truly are (and its hinted in an interlude in book 1 by the spren researchers "this might change the way we make fabrials"). So shardplate would still need a spren at some stage to give it 'life' Maybe it's some kind of non-intelligent spren that they use. There are a ton of spren we've seen that come based off of emotions or some phenomena, so maybe fabrials capture those in the gem to work. These probably can't be "killed" like an honorspren since they aren't aware they're alive (or maybe because no vows have been broken), so a Radiant shouldn't have a problem using a fabrial.
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Mar 6, 2014 21:24
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My only problem with this book is that Sanderson planted the seeds of a love triangle, and now every time I go looking for plot theories in the next few years I'm going to have to wade through pages and pages of "Team Shaladin" or "Team Kadolin" or whatever.
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Mar 7, 2014 02:18
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Ithaqua posted:I would expect that she wouldn't sound like an American 13 year old. I think it's a deliberate style choice on his part, but a bad one. Olver from WoT was fine, assuming Brandon Sanderson wrote the sections from his perspective and not Robert Jordan. This is a general issue that Sanderson has. I've heard that his writing process involves a first draft with practically no voice and it shows. Some characters do have a unique and appropriate voice but it feels like he can have real issues with getting a proper voice.
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Mar 7, 2014 02:40
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NovemberMike posted:This is a general issue that Sanderson has. I've heard that his writing process involves a first draft with practically no voice and it shows. Some characters do have a unique and appropriate voice but it feels like he can have real issues with getting a proper voice. I think I remember something about this. He writes the flow of the scene first, then goes back and adds details like character voices and descriptions later. So, in the chapter where Lift is going around activating her power, I can totally see Sanderson going "she awesomes up the wall, quips to the thieves, and awesomes around the palace" and him leaving it as is for the voice of a 13 year old girl. Whereas Kaladin's scenes would have to go from "he goes woooooosh and does some awesome stuff through 6 bad guys" to "Kaladin sucked in the last vestige of his Stormlight as he flew into battle with 6 Parshendi warriors, etc etc".
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Mar 7, 2014 03:40
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Sanderson's prose is mechanical at times, but his plotting and action scenes really make up for it. And his pacing is getting far far better than it used to be. WoR was a constant rollercoaster. It definitely hit a climax in the last 10% of the book but he didn't waste the other 90% waiting for it like he used to.
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Mar 7, 2014 05:19
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Shallan had some of the most interesting chapters, I would never had thought that going in. Dalinar was really quite worthless in this book though. He mostly just farted around, leaving everyone else to do the heavy lifting. I guess he's supposed to be a great leader, but we're only told that, never really shown it. He doesn't really demonstrate any great plans, character judgement, or inspirational leadership. Also, once Adolin started winning all the extra shard plates and swords, it really made no sense why Dalinar wouldn't have taken one of the shardplate sets. Especially after the battle royale where he had to sit on the sidelines like a ponce while his sons were in risk of being crippled, shardplate sure would have been nice there! Or how he notices that he's less capable in battle. Or how he's "important" and an assassination risk, and needs to be constantly protected. Nah, let's not put him in the magic plate. But I guess now he gets to lead the Knights Radiant. I really enjoyed Kaladin's chapters though, particularly how his depressive episodes are recurring problems. I'm sure more action craving fans will see him as mopey, and his psychological problems as repetitive, but that's kind of how major depressive disorder works. His ending was way too much like the first book though: get kicked around physically, say some magic words, explode with light, etc. Szeth's cheating death felt cheap, I hope we aren't going to fall into the recycled villain trap like Wheel of Time. Jasnah just adds to the risk of cheapening character death. Nightblood out of nowhere was excellent. Way too many secret factions with multiple powerful members, obscure agendas, convoluted plans, and ends justify the means ethics though. Any idea what is up with the creation of shardblades? Kaladin had to get through 3 oaths before Syl became a shardblade, but Pattern became a sword when Shallan was just a child?
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Mar 7, 2014 05:31
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keiran_helcyan posted:Shallan had some of the most interesting chapters, I would never had thought that going in. End of Book Stuff. I forget where specifically this is mentioned but Lightweavers only require the first Oaths and Truths for their abilities v. the 3rd ideal of the Windrunners, so it varies a lot by order. Also Dalinar won't even have a Shard.
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Mar 7, 2014 05:34
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Democratic Pirate posted:I think I remember something about this. He writes the flow of the scene first, then goes back and adds details like character voices and descriptions later. So, in the chapter where Lift is going around activating her power, I can totally see Sanderson going "she awesomes up the wall, quips to the thieves, and awesomes around the palace" and him leaving it as is for the voice of a 13 year old girl. Whereas Kaladin's scenes would have to go from "he goes woooooosh and does some awesome stuff through 6 bad guys" to "Kaladin sucked in the last vestige of his Stormlight as he flew into battle with 6 Parshendi warriors, etc etc". For my part, I don't really get why sounding like an "american 13 year old" street urchin would be more dumb than something else. Do all of the street urchins have to sound like fake medieval british street urchins? Is this an ironclad rule for fantasy fiction?
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Mar 7, 2014 06:43
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Just finished this book and read all the spoilers. Guess I need to finish Mistborn and hop into Sanderson's other books to get a more complete view of the world. Also: gently caress the Lift chapter it was awful. No, poster above me, she doesn't need to speak cockney and act like she's in the Victorian era, but Sanderson has like a half dozen or so other cultures that have a distinct voice and don't sound like a 90's kids show when they talk. Lift was just entirely insufferable throughout her chapter and it her style didn't fit the world she was in very well. It's a valid complaint from a stylistic viewpoint and it really took me out of the story. Thankfully it was over in ten minutes or so. Also: I have never spent so much time in the bathroom at my office. My boss has probably been worried about my health these past two days. What a great book overall.
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Mar 7, 2014 07:58
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Later in WoR: Seems that Radiant shardplate is different than the standard shardplate as seen in one of Dalinar's dream sequences. The one with the two Knight Radiants that he helps battle the shadow dog beasts. It said something to the effect that their were runes and other details on the KR shardplates that glowed along with their shardblades. Kaladin's blade glows similarly and he was able to power the shardplate helmet in that duel with the shardbearers; however, it didn't mention if the helmet was glowing. It could be as simple as inscribing glyphs into the shardplate and holding stormlight.
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Mar 7, 2014 08:03
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The Gardenator posted:Later in WoR: Drawing glyphs is not a magic system on Roshar, though.
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Mar 7, 2014 08:29
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api call girl posted:Drawing glyphs is not a magic system on Roshar, though. Nah, but patterns of stormlight are involved in fabrials.
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Mar 7, 2014 08:36
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Tunicate posted:Nah, but patterns of stormlight are involved in fabrials. As far as I can tell, and going by the appendices thus far all we've seen in fabrial construction are spren/gemcutting combinations, so you're going to have to explain yourself.
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Mar 7, 2014 08:46
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I really like the drawings in this book.
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Mar 7, 2014 10:22
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So, regarding the last interlude, was there any mention before of Death Rattles and the Thrill being caused by "ancient, evil spren"? I wonder if Moelach and Nergaoul are merely evil like the Nightmother could be said to be evil, or if they are associated with Odium. The Death Rattles foretelling the future probably indicates the latter. Between that and Shallan seeing voidspren flitting around Skyeels, the Parshmen might be only a small part of what makes up a Desolation.
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Mar 7, 2014 11:26
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Mygna posted:So, regarding the last interlude, was there any mention before of Death Rattles and the Thrill being caused by "ancient, evil spren"? I wonder if Moelach and Nergaoul are merely evil like the Nightmother could be said to be evil, or if they are associated with Odium. The Death Rattles foretelling the future probably indicates the latter. The only hint regarding the Thrill being caused by odium (or his spren) that I know of is how it would fail Dalinar when he fought against parshendi. I don't think that seeing the future is actually a thing of odium though, since end of book one of Renarins radiant powers is seeing the future. That myth was probably a reaction to the heirocracy rather than actual scripture.
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Mar 7, 2014 11:36
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api call girl posted:As far as I can tell, and going by the appendices thus far all we've seen in fabrial construction are spren/gemcutting combinations, so you're going to have to explain yourself. One of Navani's notebook pages mentions stormlight patterns used in a fabrial.
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Mar 7, 2014 12:34
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Last Interlude section: I thought Lift was adorable. Really cute. Her tone really jarred me at first, but I got into it pretty quickly. It's a little girl for crying out loud! I wouldn't want her as a main character for more than an interlude, but her chapter really broke the extreme tension I was feeling around there, what with Kaladin being an rear end in a top hat and Syl's fate being uncertain, etc... this more comical section felt welcome. I needed it. End of Book: As far as Jasnah... I thought he was a bit obvious about Jasnah coming back early on. I need to go back and reread, but didn't Shallan draw a picture of Jasnah surviving early on? She dismissed it as mere fancy, but the book was really pushing the "you draw the truth" thing pretty hard, so I definitely had a "Moiraine" feeling about the whole situation right up until the moment it was confirmed. I was worried he was going to drag out the supposed "mystery" of whether she was dead or not for a dozen books or so though. Personally, I have enough hardship and sorrow in the real world these days to want to read GRRM, so I'm glad she's alive. I might have preferred her just to have gone missing in the shipwreck instead of seeing the knife and really trying to sell it as a GRRM moment, but... it worked well enough. Not really complaining.
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Mar 7, 2014 14:38
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End of book: You spend basically the rest of the book being reminded over and over again that Surgebinders are nearly invulnerable, up to and including healing from Shardblade cuts. Shallan and Kaladin both survive a lot worse than Jasnah being stabbed. It's pretty well built up. Patterns of stormlight: uh, those patterns are pretty obviously caused by the different styles of mounts on the gems, and are only used as a means to read which types of sprens are being captured by the individual gems in the bracelet. Nothing on the scale of actual "magic" being done by the shapes/patterns of stormlight.
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Mar 7, 2014 14:58
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Finished this last night. Thoughts on the whole book follow. Overall, a very good book. It never felt like it had the usual drag in the middle. It didn't feel like there was a huge avalanche either -- it had a nice system of peaks and valleys throughout. The interludes also felt a lot easier to follow this time around -- maybe it's just a better feel for the world. That all said, I do hate how everyone was a radiant at the end. Like, absolutely hate it. We had 2 books of struggle from Kaladin about learning to use and accept his powers. Shallan had a book of coming to accept her powers too, and what it meant. We got to see them meet their spren, learn and grow. And then half of the cast is also a radiant. It takes away from that. Obviously we need other radiants to come about -- and I really liked what they did with Lift's chapter for that. We don't need to see them all grow, but we need to see that it's out there happening. Not "We see a radiant... oh, guess I'm one too!"
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Mar 7, 2014 15:08
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EVGA Longoria posted:
About the last criticism, I think it's not a problem yet but might become one. I especially hope Adolin, Navani, and Elhokar stay normal as there are already enough Kolin radiants, but I doubt they all will. Teft, Rock, Skar, etc should stay normal as well and I hope Lopen is just one of those "squire radiants" that can glow with stormlight but don't bond with a spren and get no surgebinding/shardblade. Regardless, Brandon has always written from the point of view of powerful/influential characters so it's no surprise. Plus, since there are 10 different kinds of surgebinding, we're bound to have at the very least 10 surgebinding protagonists/antagonists by the end. We currently have 5. senae posted:I don't think that seeing the future is actually a thing of odium though, since end of book one of Renarins radiant powers is seeing the future. That myth was probably a reaction to the heirocracy rather than actual scripture. Actually... Syl confirmed that seeing the future is a thing of odium. Also, by process of elimination we know that Renarin is the same kind of Radiant as Ym who did not mention seeing the future at all (which means Renarin has the illumination and regrowth surges). edit: finally found where she said it: “Something bad is going to happen,” Kaladin said. “Things can’t just continue to be good for me. That’s not how life is. It might have to do with those glyphs on Dalinar’s wall yesterday. They seemed like a countdown.” She nodded. “Have you ever seen anything like that before?” “I remember . . . something,” she whispered. “Something bad. Seeing what is to come— it isn’t of Honor, Kaladin. It’s something else. Something dangerous.” Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 88). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. Walh Hara fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Mar 7, 2014 |
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Mar 7, 2014 15:35
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I'm reading first chapter of WoR and I don't understand anything. I didn't even remember who Jasnah is without googling.. I wonder if it gets better? I really don't have time to re-read...
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Mar 7, 2014 16:11
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mallamp posted:I'm reading first chapter of WoR and I don't understand anything. I didn't even remember who Jasnah is without googling.. I wonder if it gets better? I really don't have time to re-read... The book is great, your memory seems to be faulty.
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Mar 7, 2014 16:28
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mallamp posted:I'm reading first chapter of WoR and I don't understand anything. I didn't even remember who Jasnah is without googling.. I wonder if it gets better? I really don't have time to re-read... http://www.tor.com/features/series/the-way-of-kings-reread-on-torcom Chapter by chapter summaries, you can read through these quickly enough and it'll give you everything you need. Shorter than a Robert Jordan "prologue" at any rate.
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Mar 7, 2014 16:32
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