How to negotiate offers?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > How to negotiate offers?

Guinness: Sep 15, 2004

Kobayashi posted:

I really can't emphasize enough how important it is to start at a salary that makes you happy. By all means, take other benefits into account when you're negotiating that last 10%, but at the end of the day if the dollar amount is not something you're satisfied with, it will not change substantially until you leave or are ready to leave for another offer. Make it count.

I just want to beat this dead horse one more time because I see people, including my friends, fall for the empty promise of "after 3/6/whatever months we'll review your salary and adjust accordingly." Promises like that don't mean anything, cost the company basically nothing to make, and nothing to break.

It's BS. It ain't gonna happen, and even in the off-chance that it does you won't be seeing more than like a 4-5% raise out of it.

Your initial salary negotiations are typically your only chance to play hardball and get what you want. It will be the anchor for all of your future raises and bonuses for your entire time at the company. Negotiating an extra 10 or 20% up front can be literally years worth of raises and bonuses, and it is guaranteed in your salary. Plus it raises the basis for those future raises and bonuses. It's kind of like compound interest.

Once you accept that offer you lose most of your negotiating leverage. Maybe a couple years down the line when you've proven that you're a valuable part of the team and you feel that the yearly 3% raise hasn't kept up with your market rate, you might be able get a substantial raise by getting a concrete offer from another company. It might work, or they might tell you to go piss up a rope, it will depend on your company and how integral you are to the team. Plus you have to be willing to actually leave and take the other offer, and you only get to play this card once in a blue moon.

Moral of the story: Negotiate hard up front. Be willing to walk away if you can't settle on an agreeable comp package (if you are fortunate enough to be in a position to do so).

Guinness fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Mar 11, 2014

# ? Mar 11, 2014 17:45

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 28, 2024 18:17

Kalenn Istarion: Nov 2, 2012; Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

To Vex a Stranger posted:

So I have a verbal offer from a large company, which I received yesterday, and an email from them with "offer Components". It's a consulting firm that deals mostly with Microsoft technologies. I referred a friend to this company by way of a recruiter who had emailed me about the same position 9 months ago (at the time I wasn't interested in moving.)

I was expecting to make the same, if not more than that friend. When he interviewed he had no consulting experience, no Microsoft Certifications, a bachelor's degree from a smaller public university (I believe it was Robert Morris) and 6 years of technical experience. I just finished the interview process, and my qualifications, vs his are I have 2 years of consulting experience, an MCSE (high level microsoft certification) and 5 years technical experience, as well as 2 straight years of experience in the piece of software that they were looking to hire for. When we started the process, they asked me how much I wanted to make. Knowing his salary, I said 95-100k. They said that the way to do that would be to get me in the "Consultant" position (which is the position he is in).

The offer finally came today and it was base $86k with $5k signing bonus, and 10 days vacation (I would be losing 5 vacation days if I moved). This offer was presented by a different internal recruiter than the one I had been working with. I know that their promotion scheme hinges on actual consulting experience and you are supposed to get raises the more Microsoft Certs you have. They said if I want to start March 31st that I need to get back to them by friday, and if I want to start mid-April I have until next week. Is it too late to go back to them and say "I believe I'm worth the 95-100 that I initially asked for, and would like to start at 3 weeks vacation."

I'm terrible at this negotiation thing! I also am expecting an offer from another large consulting firm today (was actually supposed to get it yesterday but never heard from them). Should I use that as a play? I read the thread but I don't know if this applies to large firms that have strict definitions for positions and what they pay. Any suggestions would be much appreciated!

Doesn't hurt to wait for the second offer to see what kind of options that gives you. If it's better pay you have the option of accepting or using it to lever better pay out of the first firm. If it's not better pay, you still have the option of telling them you have a competitive offer and getting something in your initial target range would seal the deal.

# ? Mar 11, 2014 19:32

corkskroo: Sep 10, 2004

Kalenn Istarion posted:

Doesn't hurt to wait for the second offer to see what kind of options that gives you. If it's better pay you have the option of accepting or using it to lever better pay out of the first firm. If it's not better pay, you still have the option of telling them you have a competitive offer and getting something in your initial target range would seal the deal.

Also, you asked if it was too late to negotiate back to the salary you originally wanted. Not only is it not too late but this is actually the time to do it. You already have a job and you might have another offer coming, so you're in a position with a good amount of leverage. Confidently tell them that you're excited at the opportunity to work with them and are glad that they see you in their organization. Then tell them that your qualifications and backgrounds are worth a higher salary and that you want to see a number in your original range. As has been said time and again in this thread, it's your life, not theirs. Go for what you reasonably deserve.

# ? Mar 11, 2014 20:01

Dwight Eisenhower: Jan 24, 2006; Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.

Kalenn Istarion posted:

Doesn't hurt to wait for the second offer to see what kind of options that gives you. If it's better pay you have the option of accepting or using it to lever better pay out of the first firm. If it's not better pay, you still have the option of telling them you have a competitive offer and getting something in your initial target range would seal the deal.

corkskroo posted:

Also, you asked if it was too late to negotiate back to the salary you originally wanted. Not only is it not too late but this is actually the time to do it. You already have a job and you might have another offer coming, so you're in a position with a good amount of leverage. Confidently tell them that you're excited at the opportunity to work with them and are glad that they see you in their organization. Then tell them that your qualifications and backgrounds are worth a higher salary and that you want to see a number in your original range. As has been said time and again in this thread, it's your life, not theirs. Go for what you reasonably deserve.

corkskroo and Kalenn are right on, it's only too late to negotiate when you hand in your resignation letter with your current employer. You're not coming across confident in this thread, and we're here to help you. When you're not confident while negotiating salary, a far more adversarial environment, you're painting a big target on your back. Remember:

- You have a job. You don't need to take this one which is offering you a salary you know to be unsatisfactory and under what you merit.
- This is not the only opportunity you'll get. You've already got another offer in the works!
- You can say no. If they won't get to $95k, say no. This was the bottom of your range. Employers are not magic people who are allowed to make rules while you're not. You get to declare the rules of who hires you. You get to enforce them with absolute authority and no oversight. One of your rules is "$95k or no way!" Hold them to it!

# ? Mar 12, 2014 14:49

To Vex a Stranger: Mar 15, 2004; Rawr!

Thanks for the replies! I'm going to wait until end of day today, giving the other company a chance to give an offer, and if they don't I'll be telling this one that I'm not moving for less than my minimum.

# ? Mar 12, 2014 14:56

Deegan: Dec 12, 2008

Question for you guys:

I interviewed with company #1 and I initally recieved an offer that was exactly the same as I make now.(The value of leaving the company that I'm with now is enough that makes up for the lack of increase of pay) The company #1 was bought by a larger company and is finalizing the transaction this month. After the offer was made the VP called me and asked if I would be willing to wait until the new ownership could make an offer to avoid a large amount of dupicate work and potential confusion. The VP said they would make a new offer on a certain date and are committed to hiring me. I have been allowed take and look over the benefits packages but I've not signed or recieved the new offer.

In the last week I was called in for another interview at company #2 and the interview went well. This position seems more appealing and because it is a larger company they have deeper pockets. They mentioned that the salary is about 20-30% higher than I'm currently making.

So the Question: what obligation do I have to company #1 if company #2 makes me an offer? Thanks.

# ? Mar 12, 2014 15:14

Dwight Eisenhower: Jan 24, 2006; Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.

Deegan posted:

Question for you guys:

I interviewed with company #1 and I initally recieved an offer that was exactly the same as I make now.(The value of leaving the company that I'm with now is enough that makes up for the lack of increase of pay) The company #1 was bought by a larger company and is finalizing the transaction this month. After the offer was made the VP called me and asked if I would be willing to wait until the new ownership could make an offer to avoid a large amount of dupicate work and potential confusion. The VP said they would make a new offer on a certain date and are committed to hiring me. I have been allowed take and look over the benefits packages but I've not signed or recieved the new offer.

In the last week I was called in for another interview at company #2 and the interview went well. This position seems more appealing and because it is a larger company they have deeper pockets. They mentioned that the salary is about 20-30% higher than I'm currently making.

So the Question: what obligation do I have to company #1 if company #2 makes me an offer? Thanks.

You received an offer, which was then withdrawn. The claimed reason for the withdrawn offer was their acquisition. Company #1 gave you a promise to give you another offer.

You now are looking at an objectively superior offer.

If I describe your situation to you like this, is it even a question anymore?

Put it this way: they gave you an offer, and then rescinded it. Now, after having an offer jerked out from under you, you have to rely on their word that they'll give you a new one.

If you get an offer from #2, I think the only obligation you have is to inform company #1 of the new salary figure they need to match and to pick a date by when they need to match it.

# ? Mar 12, 2014 15:21

Deegan: Dec 12, 2008

Dwight Eisenhower posted:

You received an offer, which was then withdrawn. The claimed reason for the withdrawn offer was their acquisition. Company #1 gave you a promise to give you another offer.

You now are looking at an objectively superior offer.

If I describe your situation to you like this, is it even a question anymore?

Put it this way: they gave you an offer, and then rescinded it. Now, after having an offer jerked out from under you, you have to rely on their word that they'll give you a new one.

If you get an offer from #2, I think the only obligation you have is to inform company #1 of the new salary figure they need to match and to pick a date by when they need to match it.

Yes. It does seem clear when put that way. Thanks.

# ? Mar 12, 2014 15:24

Korovyev: Feb 14, 2005; Nothing like a good cup of graphite in the morning

Hi all--I'm in the middle of a weird situation with a job offer of sorts.

Back story- In July of 2012 I moved from the lab into Biotech sales. The company I work for has recently done a good deal of downsizing, eliminated my sales position and moved me to customer service. Not a great situation as I want to do sales, I'm the only CS person, and I have to fight to take PTO as there is no one else who knows how to do my job.
I've started looking around and last Friday, had a glowing set of interviews with an advertising sales company. Everyone was pleasant, had similar interests and hobbies to me, and the work life balance sounded great. (work from ~9-5, catered lunch, and everyone plays LoL over the lunch hour)

Now getting down to the nitty gritty- I was asked on Monday if I'm still interested in the job and what my salary requirements are. Using this fantastic thread, I said "Yes I'm still interested. What range of pay are you looking to pay for this role?"

Today, I get this back from HR:
"While I can not give the salary range for the position, as a Coordinator, it does fall closer along the lines of an entry level Sales position. YOURFUTUREMANAGER has asked me again, about the salary requirements or expectations you have? This isn't setting anything in stone, simply making sure we're along the same lines.

"

How should I respond? The only thing I can think of is giving them a ball park range for salary and say I'm flexible. I have a friend who currently works at the company, starting initially in this role 5 years ago, and was paid 40k. That's almost a 20k drop from what I currently make doing a job with a longer commute and less perks.

# ? Mar 13, 2014 05:48

Kalenn Istarion: Nov 2, 2012; Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

Korovyev posted:

Hi all--I'm in the middle of a weird situation with a job offer of sorts.

Back story- In July of 2012 I moved from the lab into Biotech sales. The company I work for has recently done a good deal of downsizing, eliminated my sales position and moved me to customer service. Not a great situation as I want to do sales, I'm the only CS person, and I have to fight to take PTO as there is no one else who knows how to do my job.
I've started looking around and last Friday, had a glowing set of interviews with an advertising sales company. Everyone was pleasant, had similar interests and hobbies to me, and the work life balance sounded great. (work from ~9-5, catered lunch, and everyone plays LoL over the lunch hour)

Now getting down to the nitty gritty- I was asked on Monday if I'm still interested in the job and what my salary requirements are. Using this fantastic thread, I said "Yes I'm still interested. What range of pay are you looking to pay for this role?"

Today, I get this back from HR:
"While I can not give the salary range for the position, as a Coordinator, it does fall closer along the lines of an entry level Sales position. YOURFUTUREMANAGER has asked me again, about the salary requirements or expectations you have? This isn't setting anything in stone, simply making sure we're along the same lines. "

How should I respond? The only thing I can think of is giving them a ball park range for salary and say I'm flexible. I have a friend who currently works at the company, starting initially in this role 5 years ago, and was paid 40k. That's almost a 20k drop from what I currently make doing a job with a longer commute and less perks.

First, don't say 'this is what I want but I'm flexible'. You're basically asking them to underbid you. Be firm. 'My expectation for this job is X'. Don't qualify it or waffle, while it's often better to get a bid from the employer first this gives you the opportunity to try to set an anchor on the negotiations. Assuming they want you enough, they'll feel pressure about going too far below your opening number. You do still have the option of not responding with a number but unless you're very sure of your position this starts to look cagey and could hurt your position.

If you feel like you need to make the opening offer, start with the highest not-crazy number you can think of. One way might be to take your buddy's number, add 5% per year for generous inflation then add another 10 or 20% depending on how good a negotiator you think he was. This would give you something in the $55-$65k range and per your comment is around what you make now in cash comp. If you have more favourable benchmarks then use those instead.

# ? Mar 13, 2014 14:03

Korovyev: Feb 14, 2005; Nothing like a good cup of graphite in the morning

Kalenn Istarion posted:

First, don't say 'this is what I want but I'm flexible'. You're basically asking them to underbid you. Be firm. 'My expectation for this job is X'. Don't qualify it or waffle, while it's often better to get a bid from the employer first this gives you the opportunity to try to set an anchor on the negotiations. Assuming they want you enough, they'll feel pressure about going too far below your opening number. You do still have the option of not responding with a number but unless you're very sure of your position this starts to look cagey and could hurt your position.

If you feel like you need to make the opening offer, start with the highest not-crazy number you can think of. One way might be to take your buddy's number, add 5% per year for generous inflation then add another 10 or 20% depending on how good a negotiator you think he was. This would give you something in the $55-$65k range and per your comment is around what you make now in cash comp. If you have more favourable benchmarks then use those instead.

Thanks for your help! I've replied with a strong "My salary expectation is $55k". $50k is my sweet spot and anything lower I'd really have to think about. They've also asked me to meet their VP of Sales next week for an extra layer of interviews since he'll be in town. I take that as a good sign.

I'm also working on a web-based business venture that I'm hoping will be my main source of income in the future, and having more free time is way more important to me than money. (Just finished reading the 4 Hour Work Week)

# ? Mar 13, 2014 18:54

Fiedler: Jun 29, 2002; I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.

I'm uncertain of the best way to go about negotiating some competing offers I have. My current employer is a small company that, for legal reasons, has not been able to increase salaries or pay bonuses for the past two years. Consequently, I'm now looking for other opportunities. Reading through this thread, it seems I have managed to gently caress a lot of things up so far.

A synopsis:
Company A - A local company with around 1000 employees has offered me a position with salary equal to my current salary plus 25%, with an indeterminate bonus. I'm uncertain of the long term financial solvency of this company.

Company B - A giant corporation has offered me a local position with salary equal to my current salary plus 35%, with a 10% incentive compensation plan. I did disclose both my current salary amount and the amount of company A's offer prior to company B making their offer.

Company C - A giant corporation has indicated they intend to make me an offer for a local position, but have not done so yet. They initially indicated an intention to offer around the same amount of salary as Company A (current salary plus 25%), but with an annual bonus somewhere between 5-15%. I have disclosed both my current salary and the amount of Company A's offer to them.

Company D - A giant corporation headquartered in another state has asked me to visit them for interviews with a few different teams, and I agreed (prior to receiving any of the above offers). They have already purchased plane tickets, reserved a rental car, and booked a hotel room for me. This interview is scheduled to happen next week. At this time, I feel like I would enjoy working for Company D the most, but obviously I haven't spoken with them in person so I can't be certain of that, and I do not know whether they will even decide to make an offer. Also, even if they do make an offer, the cost of living in this other city is so much greater than my current city that they would need to offer significantly more than the others to compensate.

I told Companies A, B and C that I had committed to an interview out of state, and that I would need some time to be able to give them an answer. The recruiter for Company C responded to that by inquiring whether there was a salary at which I would agree not to go to the out of state interview, and I told the recruiter that it would have to be a very high number, but did not give a specific amount.

Here's what I'm thinking about doing:
Take no action until after the interview with Company D next week. If Company D doesn't make an offer, then at that point I would attempt to get Companies B and C to bid against each other, at the conclusion of which I would accept the highest offer.

On the other hand, if Company D does make an offer, I'm not sure how to handle that. Also, I'm not sure whether to inform Company D up front about the other offers and their amounts, or to inform them only about the existence of other offers, or not to inform them at all. My assumption is that it's better to inform them up front about the existence of other offers, but without disclosing the amounts.

# ? Mar 13, 2014 22:39

swenblack: Jan 14, 2004

Korovyev posted:

Thanks for your help! I've replied with a strong "My salary expectation is $55k". $50k is my sweet spot and anything lower I'd really have to think about. They've also asked me to meet their VP of Sales next week for an extra layer of interviews since he'll be in town. I take that as a good sign.

I'm also working on a web-based business venture that I'm hoping will be my main source of income in the future, and having more free time is way more important to me than money. (Just finished reading the 4 Hour Work Week)

I hate to say it, but you completely screwed up. There is now a 0% chance you will get a offer above $55k. Before you said $55k, there was a chance. Also, if they weren't willing to pay you $55k, telling them your salary expectation wouldn't make them magically increase their offer. You effectively put a cap on their offer without asking them to increase what they were willing to offer you.

# ? Mar 13, 2014 22:51

swenblack: Jan 14, 2004

Fiedler posted:

Here's what I'm thinking about doing:
Take no action until after the interview with Company D next week. If Company D doesn't make an offer, then at that point I would attempt to get Companies B and C to bid against each other, at the conclusion of which I would accept the highest offer.

On the other hand, if Company D does make an offer, I'm not sure how to handle that. Also, I'm not sure whether to inform Company D up front about the other offers and their amounts, or to inform them only about the existence of other offers, or not to inform them at all. My assumption is that it's better to inform them up front about the existence of other offers, but without disclosing the amounts.

With the exception of making B & C bid against each other, I agree with your course of action. I would tell company D about the offers, but at the appropriate time during salary negotiations. Definitely don't disclose the amounts until after D offers (if they do).

# ? Mar 13, 2014 22:54

Fiedler: Jun 29, 2002; I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.

swenblack posted:

With the exception of making B & C bid against each other, I agree with your course of action.

Okay. Could you explain the rationale behind not doing that? Is it, for example, motivated by risk aversion -- e.g. one or both companies might respond by withdrawing their offer?

# ? Mar 13, 2014 22:58

corkskroo: Sep 10, 2004

Fiedler posted:

Okay. Could you explain the rationale behind not doing that? Is it, for example, motivated by risk aversion -- e.g. one or both companies might respond by withdrawing their offer?

This has been said before: Unless you're a Heisman trophy winner or something these companies aren't going to want to enter a bidding war. Just give them the best negotiation you can to get the best deal for yourself. How would you even go about creating a bidding war? Hire an auctioneer and get them all in a room at the same time? Instead of trying to be all alpha and using the offers explicitly you can use them internally to boost your own confidence and go a little more aggressive in your negotiation. But if you start playing games with them they might just say "screw this guy, he's not the be all-end all."

You have a lot of options right now. Don't get tacky, just play it straight. The closest you could come without being tacky is to say to one of them "I really appreciate your offer and I'd like to make it work. I do have another offer from another firm but I'd rather work with you. Is it at all possible to agree on a number/benefits/whatever that comes closer to what I'm asking?"

# ? Mar 13, 2014 23:44

Fiedler: Jun 29, 2002; I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.

I appreciate your thoughts. Would you recommend that, in the event that Company D doesn't offer, I simply accept whichever of B and C makes the highest offer? Or, alternately, counter them both with a request for a base salary equal, say, to my current salary + 50%?

# ? Mar 14, 2014 00:10

spwrozek: Sep 4, 2006; Sail when it's windy

When your interview is over at company D ask them what the timeline is on deciding to make you an offer or not. If they say anything longer then 2 days you need to tell them you have other offers on the table that you will need to decide on. You can't let company D take forever deciding or things will get interesting with A,B,C. Don't tell them how much the offers are though.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 00:46

Kalenn Istarion: Nov 2, 2012; Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

swenblack posted:

I hate to say it, but you completely screwed up. There is now a 0% chance you will get a offer above $55k. Before you said $55k, there was a chance. Also, if they weren't willing to pay you $55k, telling them your salary expectation wouldn't make them magically increase their offer. You effectively put a cap on their offer without asking them to increase what they were willing to offer you.

While you're right that it caps the discussion, it also has the effect of pulling the discussion upwards in a situation where you think you're going to get offered below your target. Not a screw up to put a stake in the ground when you've already tried to get a bid and the employer turns it around on you. Unless you have an extremely strong position you don't gain by again telling them no, especially if it's a job you want and want to keep things moving forward. Based on his description, his $55k is safely above what he might expect them to offer and is also well above what he'd be happy making.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 03:12

Kalenn Istarion: Nov 2, 2012; Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

Fiedler posted:

I appreciate your thoughts. Would you recommend that, in the event that Company D doesn't offer, I simply accept whichever of B and C makes the highest offer? Or, alternately, counter them both with a request for a base salary equal, say, to my current salary + 50%?

Nice that you have a bunch of competing offers. I think you're going to be best served by taking the time to see Company D, at which point you'll hopefully have additional ammo to either re-up with B or C (or just take D). As someone else said though, unless you're a particularly rare commodity (maybe you are idk), you're not going to be well served by trying to create an auction. The companies are going to figure out that you're shopping their offers and you could risk losing one or more of them. I think you need to try to limit it to one additional round with each company (tell them to make their best and final proposal) and then pick your best all-round deal. Agree that any consideration of D should incorporate an explicit adjustment for cost of living.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 03:19

swenblack: Jan 14, 2004

Kalenn Istarion posted:

While you're right that it caps the discussion, it also has the effect of pulling the discussion upwards in a situation where you think you're going to get offered below your target. Not a screw up to put a stake in the ground when you've already tried to get a bid and the employer turns it around on you. Unless you have an extremely strong position you don't gain by again telling them no, especially if it's a job you want and want to keep things moving forward. Based on his description, his $55k is safely above what he might expect them to offer and is also well above what he'd be happy making.

We're going to have to disagree. Korovyev did two things by stating his expectation. First, he prevented the company from throwing out a lowball offer, which may have saved them some time and effort. Second, he capped the negotiations at $55k. Neither of these effects actually increased the budget available for the position. If $55k is less than the budget available, and Korovyev does well at the interviews, he'll get an offer of $55k. If the budget is less and he does well, he'll get a counter-offer less than $55k. However, if he hadn't made his expectations known, he'd simply get an offer, which he could then evaluate and attempt to negotiate higher.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 12:01

swenblack: Jan 14, 2004

Fiedler posted:

I appreciate your thoughts. Would you recommend that, in the event that Company D doesn't offer, I simply accept whichever of B and C makes the highest offer? Or, alternately, counter them both with a request for a base salary equal, say, to my current salary + 50%?

Both corkskroo and Kalenn Istarion are spot on. I would tell the companies that you have three other offers and you'd like them to submit their best offer.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 12:07

Kalenn Istarion: Nov 2, 2012; Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

swenblack posted:

We're going to have to disagree. Korovyev did two things by stating his expectation. First, he prevented the company from throwing out a lowball offer, which may have saved them some time and effort. Second, he capped the negotiations at $55k. Neither of these effects actually increased the budget available for the position. If $55k is less than the budget available, and Korovyev does well at the interviews, he'll get an offer of $55k. If the budget is less and he does well, he'll get a counter-offer less than $55k. However, if he hadn't made his expectations known, he'd simply get an offer, which he could then evaluate and attempt to negotiate higher.

Did you miss the post where he described that he had already gone back to them with a 'make me an offer' comment and they've now stated twice that he needs to provide some sense of expectations? Your points are all valid for an opening discussion but at some point you need to be willing to put a stake in the ground if you want to move things forward. You run a serious risk of the company just telling you to gently caress off by trying to be too cute. If you're indifferent to who you work for then you can play it tougher but be prepared to lose the offer. In this case it was pretty clear that he viewed the job as a significant upgrade even with a salary cut, so would probably be disappointed by losing the offer through playing it too tough.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 14:57

spwrozek: Sep 4, 2006; Sail when it's windy

Kalenn Istarion posted:

Did you miss the post where he described that he had already gone back to them with a 'make me an offer' comment and they've now stated twice that he needs to provide some sense of expectations? Your points are all valid for an opening discussion but at some point you need to be willing to put a stake in the ground if you want to move things forward. You run a serious risk of the company just telling you to gently caress off by trying to be too cute. If you're indifferent to who you work for then you can play it tougher but be prepared to lose the offer. In this case it was pretty clear that he viewed the job as a significant upgrade even with a salary cut, so would probably be disappointed by losing the offer through playing it too tough.

Agreed. He said 50 was his sweet spot so he is leaving room still. Also they could always offer more, some companies are not crap and just low ball everyone. (I said I needed about $70 to move across the country a couple years ago and got $75 so it happens)

At some point I'd you want the job you can't be all coy anymore.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 15:24

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

spwrozek posted:

At some point [if] you want the job you can't be all coy anymore.

It really varies by what business you're dealing with. There are a fair number of them that won't jerk you around waiting for you to give out a number.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 15:35

spwrozek: Sep 4, 2006; Sail when it's windy

That is true so I guess what we are saying is you have to read the situation and decide what is best for you (great advice I know).

# ? Mar 14, 2014 15:47

burnsep: Jul 3, 2005

In a few days I'll be interviewed for the second time by an investment firm that focuses on social impact projects (sorry but I don't want to be too specific, think of it as an NGO that's run with a business-minded approach). The job is representing one of their main areas of interest in Latin America, which until very recently was done by a person who apparently left them slightly in the lurch (unconfirmed). There is no local HQ, the previous guy ran everything from his home office and the job entails quite a bit of travelling and politics.

I'm currently employed as CEO of a small start-up with pretty great prospects, but it's very stressful and I don't have much equity. It would not be terribly difficult for me to extricate myself from the situation in a professional and elegant manner. I told the first interviewer that I wasn't looking for a job, but that I was very passionate about the impact the initiative could have (true), and she appeared to be very impressed with my CV, passion and personality. My next interview is with the person who runs the initiative's US office.

My question is- how can I understand what "market value" is for such a position, to know what to expect as an offer, and what I should ask for? What perks/benefits should be included in the package? I'm in Mexico and the firm is based out of the US but has significant worldwide operations.

burnsep fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Mar 15, 2014

# ? Mar 14, 2014 20:41

Korovyev: Feb 14, 2005; Nothing like a good cup of graphite in the morning

spwrozek posted:

That is true so I guess what we are saying is you have to read the situation and decide what is best for you (great advice I know).

To add a few factoids to the situation, this is for a gaming company, and that industry has a history of terrible pay because the majority of applicants don't have any experience, are huge video game fans, and don't mind being low-balled to work in a "fun" environment. Said company has a history of underpaying people on Glassdoor and from what I can tell hasn't had to deal with many people (or many women for that matter) playing hardball on offers.

I'll let you guys know what transpires, and if its a terrible deal, I can always walk away.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 21:10

swenblack: Jan 14, 2004

Kalenn Istarion posted:

Did you miss the post where he described that he had already gone back to them with a 'make me an offer' comment and they've now stated twice that he needs to provide some sense of expectations? Your points are all valid for an opening discussion but at some point you need to be willing to put a stake in the ground if you want to move things forward. You run a serious risk of the company just telling you to gently caress off by trying to be too cute. If you're indifferent to who you work for then you can play it tougher but be prepared to lose the offer. In this case it was pretty clear that he viewed the job as a significant upgrade even with a salary cut, so would probably be disappointed by losing the offer through playing it too tough.

Nope, I didn't miss the point. This isn't an Austin Powers movie where you have to answer if they ask you three times. If $55k was an actual assessment of how much his skills were worth on the open market, I wouldn't have a problem with discussing salary expectations. Instead it's based on what a friend (who may have been lowballed) says he made 5 years ago. Given that he currently makes more money with better benefits in the current job market, I'd guess that stating his expectations as being $55k is lowballing himself.

Like I said before, we're just going to have to disagree. I think you gave Korovyev bad advice and it's going to potentially cost him thousands of dollars per year without actually increasing either the chances of getting an offer or the amount offered. Korovyev should evaluate both our positions and come to his own decision.

# ? Mar 15, 2014 13:17

swenblack: Jan 14, 2004

Korovyev posted:

To add a few factoids to the situation, this is for a gaming company, and that industry has a history of terrible pay because the majority of applicants don't have any experience, are huge video game fans, and don't mind being low-balled to work in a "fun" environment. Said company has a history of underpaying people on Glassdoor and from what I can tell hasn't had to deal with many people (or many women for that matter) playing hardball on offers.

I'll let you guys know what transpires, and if its a terrible deal, I can always walk away.

How many interviews with different companies have you had? If this is the first place you've applied and you get an offer, your skills might be more in demand than you realize. Don't take a pay cut to work for the first company that makes an offer just because your current job sucks. You also need to try to put a dollar figure on what the corporate culture is worth to you. Would you rather play video games with your friends over your lunch break or get paid an extra $10k/yr? Would you put up with a lovely company for an extra $20k/yr? Keep in mind that a company's culture can change fairly quickly, especially if they start missing sales targets or get bought out.

# ? Mar 15, 2014 13:31

burnsep: Jul 3, 2005

Sorry to push this but I'd love any insight!

burnsep posted:

In a few days I'll be interviewed for the second time by an investment firm that focuses on social impact projects (sorry but I don't want to be too specific, think of it as an NGO that's run with a business-minded approach). The job is representing one of their main areas of interest in Latin America, which until very recently was done by a person who apparently left them slightly in the lurch (unconfirmed). There is no local HQ, the previous guy ran everything from his home office and the job entails quite a bit of travelling and politics.

I'm currently employed as CEO of a small start-up with pretty great prospects, but it's very stressful and I don't have much equity. It would not be terribly difficult for me to extricate myself from the situation in a professional and elegant manner. I told the first interviewer that I wasn't looking for a job, but that I was very passionate about the impact the initiative could have (true), and she appeared to be very impressed with my CV, passion and personality. My next interview is with the person who runs the initiative's US office.

My question is- how can I understand what "market value" is for such a position, to know what to expect as an offer, and what I should ask for? What perks/benefits should be included in the package? I'm in Mexico and the firm is based out of the US but has significant worldwide operations.

# ? Mar 15, 2014 21:16

Kalenn Istarion: Nov 2, 2012; Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

swenblack posted:

Nope, I didn't miss the point. This isn't an Austin Powers movie where you have to answer if they ask you three times. If $55k was an actual assessment of how much his skills were worth on the open market, I wouldn't have a problem with discussing salary expectations. Instead it's based on what a friend (who may have been lowballed) says he made 5 years ago. Given that he currently makes more money with better benefits in the current job market, I'd guess that stating his expectations as being $55k is lowballing himself.

Like I said before, we're just going to have to disagree. I think you gave Korovyev bad advice and it's going to potentially cost him thousands of dollars per year without actually increasing either the chances of getting an offer or the amount offered. Korovyev should evaluate both our positions and come to his own decision.

It isn't a movie, and based on my experience hiring people over many years, anyone that tried to turn and turn about too long would soon find their offer was no longer an offer. At some point your acceptable salary needs to be based on what you'll be happy with and on the information at hand; waiting for a magic number isn't always practical.

# ? Mar 15, 2014 21:34

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

burnsep posted:

Sorry to push this but I'd love any insight!

I'm not qualified to answer but I think if you post some more details people at that level might be able to give advice. Like how many people are reporting to you and what kind of budget or scale are you looking at with the new job? Do you have P/L type responsibilities which might mean you've got performance bonuses to consider. A lot going on.

# ? Mar 17, 2014 20:51

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; Can't post for 10 hours!

I've read the entire thread, but I wonder if the advice here might apply somewhat differently to my situation--I'm looking for jobs within a university system, and every job already has a listed pay band. Although there are some where the band is very broad (like $20k) it's generally $5-10k.

Generally speaking, for most of the positions for which I'm applying, I'm planning to ask for a salary just short of the upper limit of the pay band, and I would say yes instantly to something in the middle or upper middle range. While for some of the positions I'd honestly be pleased to get the minimum of the pay band, I'd regard that as something of an insult.

# ? Mar 17, 2014 21:32

corkskroo: Sep 10, 2004

Halloween Jack posted:

I've read the entire thread, but I wonder if the advice here might apply somewhat differently to my situation--I'm looking for jobs within a university system, and every job already has a listed pay band. Although there are some where the band is very broad (like $20k) it's generally $5-10k.

Generally speaking, for most of the positions for which I'm applying, I'm planning to ask for a salary just short of the upper limit of the pay band, and I would say yes instantly to something in the middle or upper middle range. While for some of the positions I'd honestly be pleased to get the minimum of the pay band, I'd regard that as something of an insult.

Don't know how it is in universities but if you're coming from the outside you could stand a chance of getting higher up the scale. Just do all the stuff in this thread and be confident and you stand the best chance.

# ? Mar 17, 2014 21:51

Kalenn Istarion: Nov 2, 2012; Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

Yeah, if they're offering you a job they're already acknowledging you're worth at least the bottom of the band, no reason you shouldn't shoot for the top.

# ? Mar 17, 2014 22:59

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; Can't post for 10 hours!

Oh, that reminds me: another wrinkle is that while I'm not sure, it seems likely to me that the HR personnel of the dept. to which I'm applying will already know what I'm currently making. Assuming that's true, how should it affect my interviewing strategy?

# ? Mar 17, 2014 22:59

Kalenn Istarion: Nov 2, 2012; Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

Halloween Jack posted:

Oh, that reminds me: another wrinkle is that while I'm not sure, it seems likely to me that the HR personnel of the dept. to which I'm applying will already know what I'm currently making. Assuming that's true, how should it affect my interviewing strategy?

Why would they know, do you already work there?

# ? Mar 18, 2014 00:39

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; Can't post for 10 hours!

Yes, I'm in one department and looking at opportunities in other departments throughout the university.

# ? Mar 18, 2014 00:44

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 28, 2024 18:17

Kalenn Istarion: Nov 2, 2012; Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

Halloween Jack posted:

Yes, I'm in one department and looking at opportunities in other departments throughout the university.

Odds are they have your current pay then, so it may have some downward pressure if you're moving to a job with a band near your current one. If you're moving to a new field or something and have new education / skills added to the mix then you have a better case for it not to be a factor.

# ? Mar 18, 2014 04:57

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > How to negotiate offers?

«‹›44 »