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Wolpertinger posted:Honestly I think the Szeth prologue is probably one of the bigger writing missteps Sanderson has made - hell, you could practically skip it and not really miss out on anything, you might even enjoy it more - it's pretty easy to pick up what happened from what comes after. I think it would work a lot better if it was told from Gavilar's perspective instead of Szeth's. It's fairly similar to the death of Jon Arryn in Game of Thrones in that it's the death that sets the wheels into motion for the entire series, and I understand Sanderson wanting to show it in some capacity, but goddamn that prologue is just not entertaining at all.
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Mar 13, 2014 20:09
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Portable Staplefrog posted:Strangely, the Szeth prologue was the one I liked more... Well, Szeth is an interesting character, and the scene was a cool one, but a lot of people dislike how his prologue was used as an info-dump for how the magic he uses works, which comes off as pretty awkward and sloppy. I agree that it would have been better from Gavilar's perspective, yeah.
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Mar 13, 2014 20:12
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I get that. Just felt the need to say it isn't universally seen that way.
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Mar 13, 2014 20:14
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In retrospect, the Szeth prologue might seem skippable. However, you have to remember that this is a brand new series and the very first thing you read about it is a somewhat boring conversation between two Heralds. The action and mystery of Szeth's prologue really helped to hook me on the series.
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Mar 13, 2014 20:25
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Writing the first prologue from Gavilar's perspective without spoiling way too much, including stuff we don't even know two books in would have been rather difficult.
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Mar 13, 2014 20:28
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syphon posted:In retrospect, the Szeth prologue might seem skippable. However, you have to remember that this is a brand new series and the very first thing you read about it is a somewhat boring conversation between two Heralds. The action and mystery of Szeth's prologue really helped to hook me on the series. Also, from the broader view, since it looks like each prologue will revisit that scene from a different POV, it makes sense for the first one to be Szeth.
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Mar 13, 2014 20:29
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Notorious QIG posted:I think it would work a lot better if it was told from Gavilar's perspective instead of Szeth's. It's fairly similar to the death of Jon Arryn in Game of Thrones in that it's the death that sets the wheels into motion for the entire series, and I understand Sanderson wanting to show it in some capacity, but goddamn that prologue is just not entertaining at all. I found it really interesting and liked it a lot 
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Mar 13, 2014 20:46
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Reiterpallasch posted:Writing the first prologue from Gavilar's perspective without spoiling way too much, including stuff we don't even know two books in would have been rather difficult. First book spoilers, being considerate of certain people especially that bit that came as a one-two punch later on in the book, with Sadeas.
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Mar 13, 2014 21:00
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404GoonNotFound posted:Is there a hi-res version of that double page Shallan spread from the inner cover? The Cover Gallery in the sidebar is only returning a single broken image. Haha, when (very minor WoR spoilers) Shallan is at the training ground and 'sketching the King's shardblades' she also takes the time to draw a picture of Adolin, just like he said she was there to do. I didn't think about that when I saw the 'sigh' the first time.
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Mar 13, 2014 22:44
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treeboy posted:I found it really interesting and liked it a lot My opinion is better than your opinion 
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Mar 13, 2014 23:49
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Notorious QIG posted:My opinion is better than your opinion Now you sound like the other thread this came up in. 
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Mar 14, 2014 00:03
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Augster posted:The Chapter 84 epigraph code has been cracked: Here's a late response, but that's amazing! I thought the numbers were just intentional gibberish made to look like a real message, and not actually a crackable code. I want to know the secret now! It might have something to do with causing a contradiction with a the first ideal, since all the orders must swear that oath. However, I can't imagine what could cause a contradiction with "life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination". Maybe it could have to deal with finding a reason for the orders to fight each other. Like, setting the third ideal of the Windrunners "I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right" to fighting against a different knights radiant order with opposing motives. My favorite theory from the 17th shard: spren/surgebinders/honor/cultivation is responsible for the desolations which devastate humanity. enigma74 fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Mar 15, 2014 |
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Mar 15, 2014 01:59
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enigma74 posted:Here's a late response, but that's amazing! I thought the numbers were just intentional gibberish made to look like a real message, and not actually a crackable code. drat those Contrarianassholes and their first ideal of 'I will be an enormous dick to everyone I meet.'
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Mar 15, 2014 02:18
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I still can't see "I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right" as the Third Ideal. "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves" as the Second, and another "I will protect" as the Third Ideal? Bleh. Unless we've got Word of Author that it's the Third Ideal, I remain convinced that it's a restating of the Second Ideal and, essentially, just a retaking of the oath he broke when he agreed to let them kill the King.
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Mar 15, 2014 02:31
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Khizan posted:I still can't see "I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right" as the Third Ideal. "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves" as the Second, and another "I will protect" as the Third Ideal? Bleh. Unless we've got Word of Author that it's the Third Ideal, I remain convinced that it's a restating of the Second Ideal and, essentially, just a retaking of the oath he broke when he agreed to let them kill the King. I am not going to theorize on exactly what role that oath played or which number oath it was, but I will say that it would be dumb as hell to have 'I will protect everyone who can't protect themselves' and 'I will protect <subclass>' as separate oaths, so I hope it's just a restatement.
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Mar 15, 2014 02:36
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If you assume that the KR orders had a hierarchical system, it makes a lot of sense. It's not just saying the words and having to stick by them, it's understanding them and really believing them. Some members have sworn the first, some the first two, but only a few would be able to say the third and really mean it. So while they can all do a lot of good, only knights who have sword the third have the authority to do big stuff like making policy decisions.
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Mar 15, 2014 07:07
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I finished WoR, wow it was good. I have a lot of random thoughts ... Regarding Jasnah, At first I was shocked and thought she died but as I read I realized we hadn't learned what her other power was and that obviously she had used it to escape. Fezz posted:Rock spoilersWhen Rock is talking about the hot springs at the top of his mountains in the bar scene. It seems like they are the shard pools underneath the lake. Sort of like a layered drink. Now Rock's abilities may be from spending time in/near the shard pools/hot springs. One other thing about Rock when he's telling the story of being at the hot springs I think the spirit he met was Hoid/Wit. Maybe that's the point where Hoid world jumped to Roshar? Also it's super obvious that Eshonai is not dead. Earlier in stormform she considers jumping off a huge cliff and wondering if she could survive. Foreshadowing that she would get thrown off a huge cliff and then (probably) survive. The Taravingian pov was probably the most interesting to me in the entire book. Learning about the diagram was very cool. The epigraphs for part 4 of the book are a reply to the letter from the epigraphs in WoK. The first letter was Hoid writing to someone and I think maybe he was corresponding with Cultivation. Hoid appears to have known all the shards before they became shards but Sanderson has already said Hoid is not one of them. I can't wait for the Hoid origin book. We still don't know anything about the sphere that Galivar left behind in WoK, I really hope we get some more backstory on him in book 3 but I suspect we will have to wait until book 5 which is supposed to be Dalinar's backstory. Also, if Szeth is book 3 and Dalinar book 5 who is book 4? Jasnah, Renarin, Adolin? Streebs fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Mar 15, 2014 |
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Mar 15, 2014 08:32
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Streebs posted:
Lopen 
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Mar 15, 2014 08:43
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Book 4 is Eshonai Source
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Mar 15, 2014 09:47
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Anarkii posted:Book 4 is Eshonai  Sanderson!
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Mar 15, 2014 09:56
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mossyfisk posted:If you assume that the KR orders had a hierarchical system, it makes a lot of sense. It's not just saying the words and having to stick by them, it's understanding them and really believing them. Some members have sworn the first, some the first two, but only a few would be able to say the third and really mean it. It was explicitly stated that all orders share the first ideal, then do their own thing for the rest. Some orders have more ideals of their own that are unique, and some (like the Lightweavers, as Pattern told Shallan) do something completely different (tell deep personal truths, in this case). For my part I think Kaladin really did say the third. There's no way he'd get such a huge powerup from just restating the second. I think that each order's ideals will be specialized, so it makes sense for the Windrunners' to focus on protection as a theme.
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Mar 15, 2014 14:14
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Is anyone else worried that Elhokar will arrive at Urithiru and do something completely stupid? He himself admitted that he's always making bad decisions and resents when others show him up, and now that his uncle, that he's jealous of, is supposed to unite and lead everyone through the desolation, I can see him doing something petty like claim Urithiru for Alethkar, or procalim himself king of the Radiants or saviour of humanity.
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Mar 15, 2014 15:37
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enigma74 posted:Here's a late response, but that's amazing! I thought the numbers were just intentional gibberish made to look like a real message, and not actually a crackable code. At first I thought that the recreance was caused by the Radiants learning of the death of Honor, but Dalinar already knows all about it, so if that's supposed to be this great secret that will destroy the new orders of Radiants, I don't see how. enigma74 posted:
Isn't Honor and his Oathpact responsible for the desolations? I thought this was told to us in the books. They made a deal: Honor gets his choice of champions (the heralds), Odium gets to take a shot at Roshar every 1000 years. Honor's champions are taken from him when a Desolation isn't on, and they are tortured in an attempt to break them. The deal was probably made to prevent something worse, though.
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Mar 15, 2014 15:42
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Jorenko posted:It was explicitly stated that all orders share the first ideal, then do their own thing for the rest. Some orders have more ideals of their own that are unique, and some (like the Lightweavers, as Pattern told Shallan) do something completely different (tell deep personal truths, in this case). For my part I think Kaladin really did say the third. There's no way he'd get such a huge powerup from just restating the second. I think that each order's ideals will be specialized, so it makes sense for the Windrunners' to focus on protection as a theme. Except it's still an incredibly dumb delineation. If those are separate oaths, then the WR ideals have a loophole that somehow allow Kaladin to not worry about protecting people he doesn't hate who can protect themselves, which would be a pretty stupid thing (given he has to protect people he hates even when they can protect themselves).
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Mar 15, 2014 16:28
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Habibi posted:Except it's still an incredibly dumb delineation. If those are separate oaths, then the WR ideals have a loophole that somehow allow Kaladin to not worry about protecting people he doesn't hate who can protect themselves, which would be a pretty stupid thing (given he has to protect people he hates even when they can protect themselves). There are more oaths left. Also, I don't think the spren are going to let you wiggle through a loophole that defies the spirit of the law.
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Mar 15, 2014 16:30
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Jorenko posted:There are more oaths left. Also, I don't think the spren are going to let you wiggle through a loophole that defies the spirit of the law. Oh are there? I thought it was just the three. Well, anyway, re: the spren allowing or not allowing, that would still be a really lazy and cheap mechanism to essentially correct an issue that shouldn't have come up in the first place (oaths with senseless loopholes).
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Mar 15, 2014 16:39
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Habibi posted:Oh are there? I thought it was just the three. Well, anyway, re: the spren allowing or not allowing, that would still be a really lazy and cheap mechanism to essentially correct an issue that shouldn't have come up in the first place (oaths with senseless loopholes). The intention behind the words seems to me to be much more important than the words themselves. To start with, I really doubt you have to speak Alethi to be a king radiant, so presumably anyone can speak the words in their own language as long that the intention behind them is correct.
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Mar 15, 2014 17:07
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Walh Hara posted:The intention behind the words seems to me to be much more important than the words themselves. To start with, I really doubt you have to speak Alethi to be a king radiant, so presumably anyone can speak the words in their own language as long that the intention behind them is correct. I don't really see what that had to do with anything?
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Mar 15, 2014 17:20
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Odette posted:
Sanderson's said that he's willing to focus a book around a dead character, or one who dies partway through. Since, after all, what he's showing is flashbacks.
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Mar 15, 2014 17:48
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gently caress that I want Eshonai to shake off the voidbinding, kill her sister, and become a new Radiant.
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Mar 15, 2014 18:19
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api call girl posted:gently caress that I want Eshonai to shake off the voidbinding, kill her sister, and become a new Radiant. I wouldn't worry too much. All special powers she may have been granted in her new form aside, she was decked out in shardplate when she fell. She might land face first and still survive.
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Mar 15, 2014 18:22
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I don't see why some people are so put out by one of the ideals of one of the orders. It may not even be the final ideal of that specific order. If some of you guys are nitpicking this poo poo now I can't imagine the technicalities you're gonna try and wave in each others faces about the second/third ideals (if any) of the other 9 orders.
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Mar 15, 2014 18:37
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Xachariah posted:I don't see why some people are so put out by one of the ideals of one of the orders. It may not even be the final ideal of that specific order. Hey man this is important stuff how can we sleep at night while the ideals of fictional characters don't make perfect sense???
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Mar 15, 2014 18:42
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Lot's of drugs.
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Mar 15, 2014 18:51
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Xachariah posted:I don't see why some people are so put out by one of the ideals of one of the orders. It may not even be the final ideal of that specific order. Listen, we have like two years until the next book, what else are we supposed to do until then? Act like adults? I think not.
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Mar 15, 2014 18:54
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api call girl posted:gently caress that I want Eshonai to shake off the voidbinding, kill her sister, and become a new Radiant.
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Mar 15, 2014 19:05
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Xachariah posted:Lot's of drugs. That's what got me into this series in the first place
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Mar 15, 2014 19:08
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I'm re-reading Warbreaker, and when Siri starts to teach Susebron to read, the first letter of the first word she ever teaches him is 'shash'. Dangerous...
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Mar 15, 2014 21:17
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Yeah really not getting the people who are grumpy about the (near end of book)third oath. I feel the book does an excellent job of demonstrating a perfect example of a situation where such an oath would be important. Elhokar is a king, has his own shardblade, but is completely helpless in the situation and kaladin doesn't really care for him at all. The oath is very fitting for the "honor bound" Windrunners who can't simply get by with what's practical or logical they have to do what's *right* that means protecting the helpless,innocent, and jerks
treeboy fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Mar 16, 2014 |
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Mar 16, 2014 00:57
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The first set of annotations for Alloy of Law went up earlier today. They cover chapters 2-10, but not 1 or the prologue, for some reason.
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Mar 16, 2014 05:35
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