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MisterBibs posted:Thanks for proving my point, that rather than do something simple that a lot of people do (have an ID, be capable of basic testing), they spend the effort talking about why they shouldn't have to do it instead of doing the basic task. So what you're saying is that your ability to have really terrible opinions isn't just restricted to game design
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Mar 20, 2014 22:55
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House will be pretty good for Freeside, after all, having robots around to make sure that the people who just want to get on with their lives without being hassled by the crazy murdering thugs that rush anyone who tries to walk down the street will probably be useful. The Khans are pretty much about two steps away from the Fiends - the NCR guy who was raised by them tells you that. Papa Khan might go on about about their "culture", but never actually says what that is. His right hand man and Jerry are pretty chill I guess. If you do the quest The Coyotes, you can see what horrors the Khans have caused by creating and feeding the Fiends.
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Mar 20, 2014 23:08
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Gumbel2Gumbel posted:Voter ID laws are being fought against everywhere in the U.S. because poor people without driver's licenses vote overwhelmingly democratic. Republicans pass these laws to gain an advantage. They do this by charging fees for the ID's, close issuing sites, and severely restrict their hours so people without access to reliable transportation cannot afford the money or time to go get one. Also I don't think the number of convictions captures the issue of voter fraud very well, since even in places that aren't run by a political machine any prosecution of the issue is going to be a nightmare for a minimal payoff. You could similarly claim that the low rate of convictions for financial fraud following the financial crisis means that corruption was fairly limited in the banking sector. Power lends itself well to self-dealing, which, to tie things back into the original discussion, is what the situation seems to be with the higher-ups of the NCR. They're corrupt as hell, and they're not going to be prosecuted for it.
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Mar 20, 2014 23:12
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Paracelsus posted:In PA it's a $13.50 fee for a card that's good for 10 years. I mean, in my line of work I regularly provide substantial discounts to clients with limited financial resources and sometimes work free of charge so I'm not unsympathetic with the issues faced by poor people, but I'd still consider that to be a negligible barrier. The DMV in some counties (don't know which ones, so I'm not sure if it was in Philly districts) only giving them out one or two days a week was certainly an issue, but it's not clear to me that it was due to political interference rather than the DMV being themselves, and that's a short-term issue with the implementation in PA rather than an fundamental problem with voter ID. The distance issue doesn't seem like a clear-cut partisan thing because most of those who live more than 10 miles from a DMV office are going to be rural white voters who are less likely to be democrats; unless it was literally only at the main DMV office in Philly the city should have been well covered and if ~4 miles of public transportation in a major city is a barrier then there are much deeper problems going on than a voter ID law. Aside from the supply problems that were specific to PA, none of these seem like a more substantial burden than requiring people to go to a polling place to vote in the first place. You're still looking for a solution in search of a problem. Even if we're taking it on faith that for every one person caught for in-person voter fraud another hundred go free, you're still talking about less than 0.01% of total votes cast in the last election. It's so mathematically insignificant as to be nonexistent, and will literally only make it harder for certain types of people to vote (which makes sense, because it's absolutely designed to do this). Nice job trying to obfuscate that with some "it's not even that hard, BUH" non-argument, though.
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Mar 20, 2014 23:29
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Hey, can we get the off-topic discussion of poll-tax laws moved to D&D, please? It seriously has no place in a Fallout thread. Anyways, it seems the Khans are more or less a tribe that combines the culture of steppe nomads with Native Americans. Raiding may be their past way of life, but the epilogue does hint that, if given the chance, they end up settling down in the north to found a bona-fide empire.
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Mar 20, 2014 23:47
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PBJ posted:Hey, can we get the off-topic discussion of poll-tax laws moved to D&D, please? It seriously has no place in a Fallout thread. Granted, that was all Pacer's fault, but they were still doing it.
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Mar 21, 2014 00:20
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It's barely analogous if we reaaaaaaally stretch the concept of 'physical identification'. And it's tiresome.
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Mar 21, 2014 00:22
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JawKnee posted:It's barely analogous if we reaaaaaaally stretch the concept of 'physical identification'. Also it was just a puzzle. Barely one at that. I barely think it counts since it feels like something they added for the game-play rather than story-line. At best the most you can say is that the NCR were only feeding their own guys, since it would probably be fairly easy to tell in any kind of real-world scenario. The difficulty of the questions is based entirely on making them super easy for a player to get.
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Mar 21, 2014 00:42
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No more voting law garbage, you guys aren't even mentioning NV any more. Back on topic- gently caress marry kill: Cass, Veronica, Lily?
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Mar 21, 2014 00:47
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The massacre at Bitter Springs was a fuckup for the NCR. For the Khans, it would've been policy. That's the difference.
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Mar 21, 2014 00:53
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Mortimer posted:No more voting law garbage, you guys aren't even mentioning NV any more. Yes, all three
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Mar 21, 2014 01:04
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Mortimer posted:No more voting law garbage, you guys aren't even mentioning NV any more. Man, that's easy. gently caress Cass because she's clearly down, marry Lily because she's a total sweetheart, and kill Veronica because if I have to hear one more obnoxious Whedon-lite quip I might just kill myself instead.
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Mar 21, 2014 01:07
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Mortimer posted:No more voting law garbage, you guys aren't even mentioning NV any more. Pretty much in that order. gently caress Cass: Shes a no-strings attached gal and I think marrying her would suck after a while. She is an alcoholic. Marry Veronica: She's adorable. Of course, shes gay so that would need to be all squared, gender-ways. Kill Lily: Duh.
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Mar 21, 2014 01:08
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Beatrix for all three at the same time. Alternately, gently caress Raquel (direct, confidence with heavy weaponry is sexy, probably has better hygiene than most wastelanders), marry Julie Farkas (voiced by Laura Bailey), kill Col. Moore.
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Mar 21, 2014 01:18
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Jesus can we go back to talking about which faction is the best already?
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Mar 21, 2014 01:22
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I'm no Whedon fanboy but when did this hate-boner for Whedon erupt?
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Mar 21, 2014 01:22
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Roobanguy posted:Jesus can we go back to talking about which faction is the best already? No, because the only right answer is the Khans.
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Mar 21, 2014 01:25
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Mortimer posted:Back on topic- JawKnee posted:I'm no Whedon fanboy but when did this hate-boner for Whedon erupt?
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Mar 21, 2014 01:32
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Wolfsheim posted:To be fair to the BoS, like twenty guys in power armor killed hundreds of NCR soldiers at HELIOS One, so they definitely count for something. Same situation with the Enclave Remnants. Yea. Plus we only see what is the remains of a Chapter in Hidden Valley. The NCR put a lot into its war with BoS according to the VB design documents and was only able to push them back by overwhelming them. I'm sure a NCR army supported with BoS Paladins would turn the hoards of lawnmower blade armed Legionnaires into green goop. quote:I'm liking all the pro-House sentiment on this page. I'll win all of you over before the Fallout 4 thread yet While I still think NCR is the best choice, House is not a terrible choice, and has a lot of pluses.
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Mar 21, 2014 01:41
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I sincerely wish there was a way to put the Followers in charge.
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Mar 21, 2014 01:44
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The whole new vegas faction argument is pointless anyway when we all know the Master is the only real choice.
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Mar 21, 2014 01:49
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Iretep posted:The whole new vegas faction argument is pointless anyway when we all know the Master is the only real choice. Go home Marcus.
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Mar 21, 2014 01:50
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LividLiquid posted:I sincerely wish there was a way to put the Followers in charge. That's a very odd way of spelling The Kings. Seriously, if I could put HIM in House's cryo-chamber, I'd do so in a heartbeat.
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Mar 21, 2014 01:59
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You'll change your tune once you get dipped.
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Mar 21, 2014 02:01
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I'm gonna bow out of this thread after all the FMK talk, that's just sad and creepy.
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Mar 21, 2014 02:10
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OldMemes posted:House will be pretty good for Freeside, after all, having robots around to make sure that the people who just want to get on with their lives without being hassled by the crazy murdering thugs that rush anyone who tries to walk down the street will probably be useful. Yeah, except the complete opposite "After the Courier ensured New Vegas remain free, the Followers found that independent Vegas was even more unstable and violent than before. Old Mormon Fort became excessively burdened by the influx of patients, struggling to provide even the most basic of services." And has anyone brought up how he often fucks over the Kings? Because that too. gently caress House.
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Mar 21, 2014 02:32
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Gumbel2Gumbel posted:I'm gonna bow out of this thread after all the FMK talk, that's just sad and creepy. I'm 90% sure the guy was making a joke but everybody's sort of turned super serious in the past few pages and didn't notice.
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Mar 21, 2014 02:36
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Sheen Sheen posted:Yeah, except the complete opposite You get the same followers ending if you do a yes man ending. Guess the couriers is a pretty big rear end in a top hat himself. Clearly theres no other reason why there would be more violence after a power change. Also kings only get screwed over in if they become friends with NCR. If you didn't make them enemies with NCR they get killed because they attack the robots with lazers on their chests.
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Mar 21, 2014 02:49
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Sheen Sheen posted:Yeah, except the complete opposite The Followers are way too unorganized, and often too unwilling to make the hard choices the wasteland raises in order to help the most people. Remember how all self righteous Julie gets if you suggest that she work with the Garrets? I never thought that slide fitted with House's character, really. I guess the Followers can't keep up without the NCR? And the Kings had the chance to work with House on the strip, they turned it down, which is fine, The Kings have failed Freeside - they're pretty much the only thing resembling the law, and Freeside is pretty much still lawless. They have the manpower and firepower to stop, you know, the criminals who rush anyone who walks down the street, the conmen risking the lives of the people, the psychotic drug dealers, but nope, the King would rather indulge himself and act tough, without even doing anything. That, and he expected the Followers to drop everything for Rex, without giving them anything, and smashed up the Follower's things when they said no. The King has the same self centered cult leader thing Ceasar does, but he's not a psychotic crazy person, at least. And when someone from the NCR tries to help Freeside, the King sulks and puts the people at risk by provoking the NCR. Best leader ever.
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Mar 21, 2014 02:50
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Iretep posted:You get the same followers ending if you do a yes man ending.
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Mar 21, 2014 03:04
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PootieTang posted:I'm getting a very 'legion' vibe from these quotes... Oi! Nerd! Sarcasm! Mr. Bibs, the NCR isn't the only civilization in the wasteland. The Khans aren't required to be a part of them. The NCR frequently rebuffed the khans, let them settle elsewhere, and then moved into their territory. Because manifest-gently caress-you-got-mine-destiny. Also, Ddraig, the questions are maybe difficult in-character, but they're really obvious to anyone who has played FO1/2, to the point they're basically a little nod of the hat to "remember this place and NPCs and one of those flags you've seen a thousand times in this game?"
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Mar 21, 2014 03:26
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I knew about Julie's mohawk being a callback to Fallout 1, but I didn't realize that the connection extended to the other Followers - come to think of it, I do remember seeing lots of mohawks in the Old Mormon Fort. 
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Mar 21, 2014 03:27
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I wiped out the Khans and used their bunker as my base literally every time I played Fallout 2 because there was no option to get rid of them any other way and I needed housing and storage for my imaginary hoard, but they never spoke and attacked on site, so gently caress 'em. Imagine my surprise at kind of liking them in New Vegas. And going back to hating the Brotherhood because I'm supposed to instead of because they're boring after Fallout 3.
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Mar 21, 2014 03:36
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Iretep posted:You get the same followers ending if you do a yes man ending. Yeah, this is the main thing I don't like about the Yes Man ending, my Courier loved the Followers and if he was in charge of New Vegas he would have helped them out as much as he could. Though, I suppose it makes sense from a thematic standpoint. None of the endings are totally good so it would be a bit weak if the Independent ended with everything all sunshine and rainbows.
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Mar 21, 2014 03:52
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SpookyLizard posted:Oi! Nerd! Sarcasm! They "left" the Kahns alone because they thought they'd killed 'em all. Like, that's been how the Kahns have worked. They murder, steal, and enslave NCR stuff. A PC comes along and murders the gently caress out of 'em. Problem settled. Then, a few decades later it turns out there was one or two left, they reformed the organization under the party line of "We'll get the NCR this time! Those fucks are going down!". Then a PC comes along and kills them to almost the last man, NCR figures it's settled, repeat. The Kahns don't want to be left alone. They want to kill anyone who can't defend themselves, steal anything that isn't bolted down, and sell drugs to the Fiends, who do all that but worse. Although killing individual members of the group can be varying degrees of wrong (from 'Good riddance' to 'War Crime') wiping out their civilization (whether by straight up extermination or well crafted lies to replace their background with classical Mongol) is pure gain. Really, when you keep kicking a bear, I don't feel too sorry when it mauls you to death.
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Mar 21, 2014 03:56
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LividLiquid posted:I wiped out the Khans and used their bunker as my base literally every time I played Fallout 2 because there was no option to get rid of them any other way and I needed housing and storage for my imaginary hoard, but they never spoke and attacked on site, so gently caress 'em. Trudging through Vault 15 with my crew of badasses wasting the entire Khan tribe was probably the saddest part of Fallout 2 for me, purely because I played it after New Vegas. Oh Darion, why couldn't you just talk things out 
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Mar 21, 2014 04:24
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2house2fly posted:Trudging through Vault 15 with my crew of badasses wasting the entire Khan tribe was probably the saddest part of Fallout 2 for me, purely because I played it after New Vegas. Oh Darion, why couldn't you just talk things out
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Mar 21, 2014 05:34
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Am I the only one who remembers the dialogue line that "the Kings are just a gang like any other"? I'm like 90% sure that Farkas says that line too, so ~*The Followers*~ don't think much of them. If House gets blamed for Freeside (an area he doesn't even control), why are the Kings so super awesome for actually being in charge of that shithole and being dicks about water? Also, since the Followers ending remains the same even if the Vegas ending is "the robot army quickly secured order in the Mojave", I assume they're just really whiny.
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Mar 21, 2014 05:48
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LividLiquid posted:I don't think the Khans were the squatters in Vault 15. They were the guys up by Vault City and their location was just called "Raiders." They weren't the squaters at Vault 15 you were sent to evict, but they were using them as a cover for their base of operations which was Vault 15. The raiders atttacking vault city were mercenaries hired by Bishop over in New Reno.
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Mar 21, 2014 05:59
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So all this talking has got me replaying the game. This time I'm focused on getting a survey of the socio-political views of the Mojave denizens. I'm also for the first time not listening to the radio and listening to the OST. I confess this has actually been probably the least enjoyable part of F:NV for me. The moody, sinister orchestral music is much less effective than the crooner songs and cowboy ditties on the radio.
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Mar 21, 2014 06:02
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