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Strange Matter posted:No, because Rich Marty travels to the exact same point in time that Poor Marty (Marty Prime) originally went back to, so he would probably hit the same tree that Poor Marty hit. The difference is that when Poor Marty hit the tree, it was changing the future. When Rich Marty hits the tree, it's density. This. Back to the Future isn't a film about changing the errors of the past, it's a narrative of pre-destination. Even as everything changes, Marty is and always shall be. This is even the reason for the some what tasteless joke of some white, suburban punk who likes Huey Lewis & The News going back and time and effectively inspiring the groups whose art would then be co-opted and re-represented as 'retro' in the '80s. And I'd carry this to the most radical interpretation. We may have no evidence of what Rich Marty/Beta Marty is like - and it's possible that he just cyclically caused the timeline to repair itself, he himself being doomed to a poor present from which he has to lift himself up by his bootstraps - but because of this we also fundamentally don't know if he's different from Poor Marty at all. Indeed, Poor Marty and Rich Marty are the same person. Marty has become one with time, the constant variable that persists beyond the artificial pop culture, which, effectively, because there are potentially infinite timelines, comes from nowhere. K. Waste fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 23:01
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You don't meet a lot of people named Marty today.
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Apr 4, 2014 23:03
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K. Waste posted:And I'd carry this to the most radical interpretation. Please don't write things like this.
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Apr 4, 2014 23:07
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Your rich Marty poor Marty theory loving rocks and your density/destiny joke does as well. I wonder did rich Marty write the note to wear a bullet proof vest or does he just arrive too late to save doc. greatn fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 23:42
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Hey, if I could resurrect the David DeCouteu/Full Moon chat again, I'd like to mention that I'm wrapping up an internship at Full Moon's LA offices, and that I really loving hate DeCouteu's films so loving much. I've had to watch every soft core porn thing he made for Full Moon, plus near every other film of his that's been added to the streaming site (can't fast forward either, I was watching for glitches and stuff). He has the amazing ability to take fun concepts (rat monster on the loose, killer puppets, people having sex for an hour and a half) and making them totally unwatchable out of sheer boredom. To be fair, interning at Full Moon HAS been a worthwhile experience, in that I got to see how a very small production company operates on a shoe-string budget. Plus, Mr. Band made the excellent choice to buy the rights to all the old Blue Underground exploitation movies, which are awesome and totally worth watching.
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Apr 4, 2014 23:54
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Are you the guy running their twitter?
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Apr 5, 2014 00:16
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No, my boss does that.
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Apr 5, 2014 00:19
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Just as an aside regarding BttF stuff, I've long felt it would be hilarious if Marty, who had made such an impact on his parent's life, came back to the new 1985 he's wrought only to discover he is no longer Marty McFly and it is, in fact, his older brother who now bears that name in honour of the man who got George and Lorraine together.
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Apr 5, 2014 00:33
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Just as an aside regarding BttF stuff, I've long felt it would be hilarious if Marty, who had made such an impact on his parent's life, came back to the new 1985 he's wrought only to discover he is no longer Marty McFly and it is, in fact, his older brother who now bears that name in honour of the man who got George and Lorraine together. Except in that case his older brother's name would be Calvin McFly. 
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Apr 5, 2014 00:35
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Pete's Dragon the reboot possibly has a director: David Lowery of Ain't Them Bodies Saints (2013) fame. http://www.thewrap.com/david-lowery-talks-add-directing-duties-disneys-petes-dragon-exclusive/
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Apr 5, 2014 00:42
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Tars Tarkas posted:Pete's Dragon the reboot possibly has a director: David Lowery of Ain't Them Bodies Saints (2013) fame. Now here's a guy that really looks like he could connect with children: 
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Apr 5, 2014 00:44
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BttF's time travel mechanics are garbage. Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, on the other hand, deals with a single timeline and all changes to the past occur in the shadow of the uncertainty principle (which is great, because the protagonists aren't certain of anything.)
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Apr 5, 2014 01:10
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Just as an aside regarding BttF stuff, I've long felt it would be hilarious if Marty, who had made such an impact on his parent's life, came back to the new 1985 he's wrought only to discover he is no longer Marty McFly and it is, in fact, his older brother who now bears that name in honour of the man who got George and Lorraine together. Well, he does have the distinction of looking just like that mysterious helpful guy who got them together, and sound just like him, and have all his mannerisms, and by 1985 he's wearing the same weird life preserver jacket that was so funny and practicing Johnny B Goode on his electric guitar up in his bedroom at night. You know, that weird memorable song George and Lorraine first heard the night they got together, which they probably remember pretty well. So I'm guessing George probably thinks his son is the product of an affair between his wife and Calvin Klein.
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Apr 5, 2014 01:33
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Jack Gladney posted:Well, he does have the distinction of looking just like that mysterious helpful guy who got them together, and sound just like him, and have all his mannerisms, and by 1985 he's wearing the same weird life preserver jacket that was so funny and practicing Johnny B Goode on his electric guitar up in his bedroom at night. You know, that weird memorable song George and Lorraine first heard the night they got together, which they probably remember pretty well. This realization sent him into a rage which culminated in him trying to kick David Letterman in the face.
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Apr 5, 2014 01:54
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greatn posted:Your rich Marty poor Marty theory loving rocks and your density/destiny joke does as well. Ave Azaria posted:BttF's time travel mechanics are garbage.
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Apr 5, 2014 03:47
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schwenz posted:You don't meet a lot of people named Marty today. Hi hello, I am a Marty, what's up?
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Apr 5, 2014 03:54
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Yeah right. A Marty? On the internet?
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Apr 5, 2014 04:05
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Where's the birth certificate,
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Apr 5, 2014 04:05
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Ave Azaria posted:Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, on the other hand, deals with a single timeline and all changes to the past occur in the shadow of the uncertainty principle (which is great, because the protagonists aren't certain of anything.) There's also no real shenanigans with time travel in Excellent Adventure, so it's entirely possible that their universe is entirely immutable and they didn't change anything, they just acted out their predetermined destiny; all those historical figures always just randomly disappeared for an afternoon. That the driving force of the film is Bill and Ted's destiny to save the world with their music would seem to corroborate this, the film is fundamentally about predestination. And, along with the fact that Rufus goes back in time even though the world of the future is already saved, implying he's already succeeded. He has to, because that's what's already happened. He has no choice in his actions, nor does anybody else in the film. You could probably argue that the only parts of Excellent Adventure that take place in the present are when Bill and Ted visit the future dudes, and everything else takes place in an unalterable past. tl;dr: the simplest explanation of time travel in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure is that free will is an illusion. DStecks fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Apr 5, 2014 |
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Apr 5, 2014 04:30
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Strange Matter posted:Well this goes back to the original thesis of time either being elastic in the BTTF universe or the two movies operating under completely different temporal laws. It's pretty clear from even a cursory analysis that the second option is probably true, and passes Occam's Razor a bit better by figuring into the equation writers who didn't really care that much about adhering to concrete laws about time travel. And why should they? The movies are equally enjoyable whether or not their central speculative conceits are perfectly founded, though I would argue that the original film's internal consistency is one of the many reasons why it's the best. Something which everyone agrees with anyway. You know, I never really thought about it much, but this is probably why I didn't enjoy BttF 2 at all. I've seen BttF several times, but have never felt the urge to watch 2. It just didn't make sense to me at face value, this is just not a problem you should be having with a time machine in your control. I loved the first movie, and something existing that should not exist is too different from the first movie, there was no consequences to Biff's actions. Maybe if it was a closed loop? I don't even remember if it was or wasn't, I've forgotten most of it except Biff's Mad Max kingdom. Femur fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Apr 5, 2014 |
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Apr 5, 2014 04:43
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DStecks posted:tl;dr: the aimplest explanation of time travel in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure is that free will is an illusion. Which breaks down in the sequel unless we accept that the Deity of their universe is just fundamentally cruel.
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Apr 5, 2014 04:46
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Femur posted:You know, I never really thought about it much, but this is probably why I didn't enjoy BttF 2 at all. I've seen BttF several times, but have never felt the urge to watch 2. It just didn't make sense to me at face value, this is just not a problem you should be having with a time machine in your control. I loved the first movie, and something existing that should not exist is too different from the first movie, there was no consequences to Biff's actions. Maybe if it was a closed loop? I don't even remember if it was or wasn't, I've forgotten most of it except Biff's Mad Max kingdom. II is just a mess on a basic storytelling level. They had to spend the entire first act dealing with the stinger at the end of the original movie and creating a conflict to carry the movie from there, and they also had to establish a hook for the sequel. Marathoning all three movies it's really jarring how much the whole "What are you, chicken?" thing was pumped up in the sequels just to give Marty some kind of character growth and have an excuse to have him do dumb things to move the plot along.
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Apr 5, 2014 04:50
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I'd say the majority of my enjoyment of BttF 2 comes from the (mostly) shiny future with cool gizmos portrayed in 2015. I don't think I'm alone given how much attention that dumb hovrboard hoax got just recently. WHERE ARE MY SELF-ADJUSTING CLOTHES DAMMIT.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:07
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Perhaps Wholesome-Republican-Upbringing Marty isn't as self-assured as Impoverished-Sissy-Liberal Marty for some reason, probably to do with Democrats assassinating his self-esteem with wealth-shaming Communist rhetoric.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:08
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priznat posted:I'd say the majority of my enjoyment of BttF 2 comes from the (mostly) shiny future with cool gizmos portrayed in 2015. I don't think I'm alone given how much attention that dumb hovrboard hoax got just recently. Nike keeps promising working versions of those shoes. I believe the latest was saying that they'll definitely make at least something like them by next year.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:12
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muscles like this? posted:Nike keeps promising working versions of those shoes. I believe the latest was saying that they'll definitely make at least something like them by next year. They did have a version they auctioned off for charity I think, didn't they? It's less the shoes, I want the jacket with sizeable sleeves and auto dry function!
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Apr 5, 2014 05:16
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priznat posted:They did have a version they auctioned off for charity I think, didn't they? It's less the shoes, I want the jacket with sizeable sleeves and auto dry function! They just looked like the shoes. They didn't actually do anything beyond being shoes.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:26
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Barudak posted:Which breaks down in the sequel unless we accept that the Deity of their universe is just fundamentally cruel. I've never seen the sequel. 
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Apr 5, 2014 05:27
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DStecks posted:I've never seen the sequel. On one hand, thats pretty good because Bill and Ted has no need for it. On the other hand the film has this weird charm when they start parodying the 7th Seal. In the sequel God directly intervenes to make sure Bill and Ted meet the smartest being in the universe in heaven and take him back to earth which, if Bill and Ted lack free will, implies that hell is just full of people God doesn't find it amusing enough to let into heaven.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:37
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Barudak posted:In the sequel God directly intervenes to make sure Bill and Ted meet the smartest being in the universe in heaven and take him back to earth which, if Bill and Ted lack free will, implies that hell is just full of people God doesn't find it amusing enough to let into heaven. How do you figure that?
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Apr 5, 2014 05:40
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Bogus Journey at least has a good message that success comes through hard work and doesn't just fall into your lap. At the end of the movie Bill and Ted realize that they both still suck and so they take a little side trip to practice for at least a couple of years. Last I heard Keanu says they're still working on a third movie and its going to be about how Bill and Ted are middle aged and despite Rufus' claims, the band still hasn't actually changed the world.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:43
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Fun Fact, this very day is the day Marty traveled to in BttF2!
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Apr 5, 2014 05:47
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axleblaze posted:They just looked like the shoes. They didn't actually do anything beyond being shoes. I could have sworn the Nike text lit up too. But yes, no auto-laces  No Mr Fusion either 
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Apr 5, 2014 05:47
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muscles like this? posted:Bogus Journey at least has a good message that success comes through hard work and doesn't just fall into your lap. At the end of the movie Bill and Ted realize that they both still suck and so they take a little side trip to practice for at least a couple of years. The scene at the end where they finally play and realize that they're horrible and actually need to practice was hilarious. Its not as good a film as Excellent Adventure but it has a decent pile of heart. Plus its hard for me to hate a film where death gets roped into playing bass because he sucks at connect four. Femur posted:How do you figure that? If Bill and Ted lack free will as per the assumptions laid out in Excellent Adventure and God exists and God is established in Bogus Journey to have made/know everthing. God has created both heaven and hell in Bill and Ted. In fact, comically enough, accidentally showing up to a seance as a dead spirit can get you sent to hell. If the beings involved have no free will then by definition God is writing the script of peoples lives and sending them to hell occasionally.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:50
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The supernatural bent of Bogus Journey was such a weird direction to take the movie.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:53
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Barudak posted:If Bill and Ted lack free will as per the assumptions laid out in Excellent Adventure and God exists and God is established in Bogus Journey to have made/know everthing. quote:Bill: So-crates - "The only true wisdom consists in knowing that you know nothing". Bill and Ted > God
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Apr 5, 2014 05:56
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Where else were they going to go? They already did time travel. The only other options are dimension hopping or space travel and both of those are sort of small fries after you've sung Kansas to So-Crates. I seriously have no idea what they'd do with a third one. If you ignore the second one you've got a complete arc. If you like the second one it shows a credits montage of them being successful and having done their task. Actually now that I've thought it a dimension hopping film where our dimensions Bill and Ted didn't get the help they need and ended up separated could work but it feels like such a late 80's early 90's needlessly downer sequel.
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Apr 5, 2014 06:06
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Yoshifan823 posted:Fun Fact, this very day is the day Marty traveled to in BttF2! drat straight! http://martymcflyinthefuture.tumblr.com/
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Apr 5, 2014 06:20
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Barudak posted:If Bill and Ted lack free will as per the assumptions laid out in Excellent Adventure and God exists and God is established in Bogus Journey to have made/know everthing. God has created both heaven and hell in Bill and Ted. In fact, comically enough, accidentally showing up to a seance as a dead spirit can get you sent to hell. If the beings involved have no free will then by definition God is writing the script of peoples lives and sending them to hell occasionally. OTOH, you basically just described Calvinism, which a large number of Christians genuinely believe (or at least, belong to officially Calvinist churches).
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Apr 5, 2014 06:44
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Yoshifan823 posted:Fun Fact, this very day is the day Marty traveled to in BttF2! I wonder how people kept falling for this. How hard is it to remember that all the years in the series ended in 5's?
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Apr 5, 2014 06:44
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