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When you pledge to be on somebody's side in a war, do they get mad if you don't actually attack their enemy?
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Apr 22, 2014 02:59
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| # ? Jun 17, 2024 23:33 |
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It counts as a broken promise and people HATE that, if you don't declare war. But they don't keep track if you don't actually engage.
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Apr 22, 2014 03:25
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Yeah, all they care about is that you declare war, not that you actually prosecute that war.
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Apr 22, 2014 03:31
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Part 42: Maria Boss Fight Snake and his elite squad are in the main dining hall of Lisbon's Royal Palace of Ajuda, away from the main city in the woods by the sea.  Everyone, away from that table, weapons up. We're getting out of here.Queen Maria enters…alone.  Oh, Snake…how much do you know? I know you're not Maria I. Yes, I replaced her. It was quite smooth and painless, I assure you, and if you had just eaten that dinner, you never would have woken up. Then a new Big Boss would have returned to Mother Base. The hell are you, some kind of a body snatcher? Heh heh heh. Yes. Exactly. Well, you're not snatching us. GO!Snake and his troops book it out of dining hall, but as they hit the grand entrance of the palace a bomb goes off, collapsing the archway and sealing them in!  GAH! Quick, look for an alternate way out!Maria strolls in from the staircase leading to the Dining Hall. Everybody points their rifles at her. Do you know what the original Maria I of Portugal was like? Babbling about nonsense, hallucinating her dead father looming over her, scaring her own servants. It was a relief when I replaced her. Yes, there were those who suspected I wasn't the same person, but they didn't care. That's who you're resisting, Snake. Not an enemy of humanity, but its future. Hah! Run that by me again? Humans are destined to kill each other off sooner or later. It's only through us that their memes and culture will be preserved. We'll save all the parts of humanity that deserve to be saved, and destroy the rest. INSECTORS!Dozens of tiny spider-robots crawl out of every crack and crevice in the main hallway and begin firing tiny needle guns at the troops! AUUGH! GEE-AAHHH! Scatter! Meet up at the rendezvous!The troops blow away the tiny, fragile Insectors in one shot each, but several get pincushioned by the barrage of needle shots. Snake and two other MSF troops hustle down one side-hall and into the kitchen. Bar that door! Got it!The trooper slams the door shut, but just as she lowers a wooden beam Maria's hand punches straight through the door and strangles her! Gauuuguhhh...With superhuman strength, Maria kicks down the door and approaches in a hunched, inhuman stance. Snake and the other soldier blast her six times in the face before she finally crumples. Is she dead? I hope so. What the hell is she?The trooper pokes Maria's body with his gun…and her hand snaps around the barrel, twisting it out of his grasp! She rises, revealing a hideous metal skull face beneath her blasted-off artificial skin, and she pounces on the screaming trooper, crunching his bones like pretzels.  Gaaah, shiiiiiit!Snake kicks out the glass of a window and jumps out through it, tumbling onto the grassy slope outside the palace. Without barely giving himself time to catch his breath he sprints towards a tied-up horse, leaps onto the saddle and begins galloping towards the gates. Kaz, get me the hell out of here! Is the extraction vehicle finished yet? I need it! I think everybody's dead but me! It'll be fifteen minutes before it reaches you! Crap! SNAAAAKKEEE!Maria's on top of a wagon being pulled by a team of horses, in hot pursuit of Snake. He charges into the city of Lisbon through the gates and she thunders right after him. You can't run from me, Snake! We're your future! A future you created! The hell are you talking about?!Maria yawns her mouth wide open, revealing a laser cannon hidden where a human's esophagus would be. She fires on Snake, killing his horse and sending him rolling into a nearby pile of trash. Maria slows her horses and trots up as Snake groans from his wounds. The technology to create Snatchers came from Metal Gear scientists you sponsored. Metal Gear TX-55 was built by our chief designer Dr. Madnar in Outer Heaven, and the program that lets us imitate dead humans was pioneered by Dr. Strangelove! We are the grandchildren of Metal Gear, and of you!Fighting through the pain, Snake tosses a lit stick of dynamite at the android and rolls to the other side of the trash pile to use as cover. The Snatcher Maria has barely a second to react before an explosion covers the area in smoke and debris. GAUUUUGGHHHH!!! Gahhh…did I get her?The smoke clears…and the upper torso of Maria, with most of the artificial flesh seared off, is still crawling towards him! No… drat it, why won't you die? I ask only the same of you. It's over, Snake!The Snatcher opens its mouth for another shot--only for its head to get blown off by a hand-cannon! Guh?Around the corner a figure strolls towards Snake and helps him up. Who are you? Eh, just some random stranger who really hates these things. Don't sweat the details. Gahhh-gaaa-ggaaahhh-- Huh, the head's still working. Not for long, though.Snake gingerly kicks the Snatcher head over with one foot to look at its face. Ha…hah…hah! Even…ee-even this is a v-victory. Humans require trust. When trust ends, society collapses. You'll…you'll need to conquer and tear apart every ss-single city on the p-planet to get us all. You won't be able to stop! T-this is the end of Civilization, ssssSnake…Snake looks up, but the stranger is already gone. Boss, the extraction chopper is coming in! Are you okay? I'm…I'm alive… Kaz… I think we need to get ready to step up our war machine… To Be Continued!
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Apr 22, 2014 06:58
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Tell me you're going to keep Random Hajile on staff. Oh, Dr. Madnar. I love the idea that Snatcher is in continuity with Metal Gear, because it means that Dr. Madnar somehow survived his encounter with Solid Snake in which he grabbed Snake from behind and held on, to which Snake responded by repeatedly firing remote-controlled missiles into his back..
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Apr 22, 2014 07:04
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I don't know which is better, the fact that that pretty much perfectly covers how fighting a Snatcher should work without the original gameplay mechanics getting in your way, the fact that yes, it makes absolute goddamn perfect sense even without the obvious tie-in that the Metal Gear research could produce the bastards, or the fact Random got a cameo.
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Apr 22, 2014 07:06
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Snatcher was such a great game. Fun update, and Random showing up out of nowhere was just icing on the cake 
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Apr 22, 2014 07:15
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Speedball posted:
This combines with an old kids' programme of my childhood to produce the trippiest loving image. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcAPxoYfzNE
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Apr 22, 2014 07:27
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Patter Song posted:Tell me you're going to keep Random Hajile on staff. Wasn't Madnar the guy who fixed Raiden up in MGS4? That fight was probably his prototype Snatcher.
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Apr 22, 2014 07:49
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Patter Song posted:Tell me you're going to keep Random Hajile on staff. Gillian Seed would make a pretty terrible economic advisor...
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Apr 22, 2014 08:14
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John Liver posted:Gillian Seed would make a pretty terrible economic advisor... But he'd have this odd sense of kinship with BB, what with them both being Kojima protagonists and all. Just think of the possibilities if they were to sit down and compare batshit plot twists together.
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Apr 22, 2014 15:19
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Man, I would have enjoyed this update a lot more had I ever played Snatcher.Speedball posted:It counts as a broken promise and people HATE that, if you don't declare war. But they don't keep track if you don't actually engage. TooMuchAbstraction posted:Yeah, all they care about is that you declare war, not that you actually prosecute that war. Basically this. In fact, if all you do is just sit back and build more military units after you declare, you might be able to get a nice peace deal out of your opponent without sending a single unit into their territory. Of course, this is dependent on difficulty and how many of the enemy units your war "partner" kills.
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Apr 22, 2014 15:25
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There is some slight benefit to actually following through on a War promise. If you and a civilization both declare war on the same side, and actually fight their units, the side you're helping gets a "you fought against a common foe" diplomacy bonus. It's not worth throwing away any of your good units into a thresher, and the other civ will probably start disliking you if you snatch the enemy capital away from them, but it can be helpful for cementing a friendship to go to war with somebody when they ask.
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Apr 22, 2014 15:39
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Vicevirtuoso posted:Man, I would have enjoyed this update a lot more had I ever played Snatcher. You may like to take the chance to read Slowbeef's wonderful Snatcher LP. Great stuff!
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Apr 22, 2014 15:54
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Yeah, Madnar being behind the development of Snatchers is more or less established, but the part about Strangelove originating the personality-imitation software is a connection I made up. It makes sense to me.
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Apr 22, 2014 16:54
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Fumbles posted:There is some slight benefit to actually following through on a War promise. If you and a civilization both declare war on the same side, and actually fight their units, the side you're helping gets a "you fought against a common foe" diplomacy bonus. I believe you only get that bonus for capturing cities, but I'm not 100% sure on that. Don't go overboard with it if you plan on keeping relations good with your war buddy, though...that diplomatic bonus decays faster than the warmonger penalty.
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Apr 22, 2014 16:57
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I friggin' knew it was going to be Snatcher. Bad. rear end.
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Apr 22, 2014 17:14
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Having never seen Snatcher, I was more envisioning that scene as something like the end of Terminator 1 instead.
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Apr 22, 2014 23:58
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DKII posted:Having never seen Snatcher, I was more envisioning that scene as something like the end of Terminator 1 instead. Which is fine because Snatchers are totally Terminator rip-offs. Just in a Blade Runner setting.
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Apr 23, 2014 00:31
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Speedball posted:Yeah, Madnar being behind the development of Snatchers is more or less established, but the part about Strangelove originating the personality-imitation software is a connection I made up. It makes sense to me. That, and it's a cool crossover idea. That's all that matters.
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Apr 23, 2014 01:06
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Part 43: Destroy Everything!!! Okay… that was one of the scariest goddamn things I've ever seen and I've had electric Super-Russians beat the poo poo out of me. First order of business: get our fleet to blow the hell out of Portugal and make sure there aren't any more of those things in there. I examined the head…its programming base is different from what I'm used to but the circuitry's architecture is familiar. This is my design. Someone in the future used my research to reproduce human consciousness on a micro scale and applied it to recently-dead humans. Put that in a human-sized robot, give it artificial flesh, and you've got a Snatcher… Rrrr… so this is how Einstein felt when he said "better I had become a watchmaker." Just because it can be used for evil doesn't mean the research is bad in itself! It's always easier to make something a weapon than a positive tool. Of course, but… You think you've got it bad, that's the second monster we've fought who says I'm responsible for them. I don't know what the hell I'm doing anymore… Maybe another comic book will cheer you up! What's it called? Weird War Tales! This issue's about robot soldiers who---ohhh, y'know what, never mind, this may not cheer you up after all… Braga is going down! Yarrrr! Take their booty! Look, Crab, just because we're on a pirate ship doesn't mean you need to talk like a pirate! Yes it does! And call me Captain Nobeard! We just got about 2000 units of salvage from that city, wow! Our main command center is really sweet now, and it won't be long before our Fulton Recovery System is fully in play! Then we'll be able to recruit anyone, anywhere! That's good, because without on-site recruitment it's going to be really hard to wage war on distant continents. *sigh* We find any more of those robo-freaks in Braga? We found…one? Huh. Maybe there weren't as many Snatchers as Maria said. Without sophisticated technological infrastructure it was probably hard for them to make more of themselves.  Enough! I can't stand this any more! My beautiful kingdom, reduced to ruins by that…that monster! Great, we've rediscovered pollution. Die, terrorist scumbags! At least we never need to feel bad about taking on these guys!  Hi, I'm Robert Goddard, the inventor of the liquid-fueled rocket! Want me to help you build anything? Oooh, I could use your help on a secret project or two! Thanks! We're going to town on Lisbon! Looks like the Snatchers must have been hoarding technology because aside from some rifles and cannons, which we already took out, the rest of the troops are pretty poorly-equipped. And it is, it is, a glorious theeeng, to be the Pirate Queen! …nah, that doesn't quite work. Whoah, dunno if it's related to the robots but we found a bunch of kidnapped guys from Quebec here! Make sure to run 'em under a metal detector first. Okay. What if one of them complains about a violation of civil rights? Then do it anyway! Killer robots from the future are kind of a bigger deal than waiting for search warrants! Gah, I'm turning into such a fascist… Wow, the Portuguese Snatchers were loaded, I can upgrade Mother Base in one shot with all this junk! The Fulton Recovery System is online, and none too soon! Now we need a modern Sick Bay, something that'll reduce fatalities back home and promote our growth. I can use parts from their skin-growing hospital to help with that! Now comes the part I've been dreading…we'll have to ask other nations to let us inspect 'em…or else. *shudder* What is it? I need to have my troops barge into your country and, uh, basically take everything over for a while to make sure horrible killer machines wearing the flesh of men haven't infiltrated your lands. Ha! HA HA HA! Is that a yes or a no? No one enters Wallachia and lives. Feel free to attack me if you want. If you can! Ugh, I don't have time for this! Pride feeds their blackened hearts. And the thirst must be quenched to fuel hypocrisy Cleansing flames is the only way to repent. Renounce what made you Words that kill Would you speak them to me? With your breath so still, It makes me believe The Sins never die. Can't wash this blood off our hands. Let the world fear us all. It's just means to an end. Our salvation lies in the Father's sins. Beyond the truth, Let me suffer now. In my heart I just know that there's no way to light up the dark in his eyes. …you're really not cheering me up, Leopard. Alright, you idiots, scientific theory is about testing your basic assumptions…about everything. Don't pretend you know all the answers, because you don't. Not even I do. It's all about assuming you're a moron and working your way up from there. You could try to sugar-coat it… Greetings, Big Boss. I am Sargon of Akkad. I have come to help you in your inevitable battle against Babylon. My reasons are my own. Do not question them. Uh, okay. Glad to have you on board… The last Portuguese city is taking a beating, Boss! The Babylonians are looking for a piece of the action too. Gah, it's so weird seeing them in far-more-advanced armor and weapons than they usually had… Should we toast it? Nah. It's a holy city for one of the local religions. No matter how bad things get, I will not have "genocidal lunatic" applied to me. Besides… It's got some pretty buildings in it.  Ha-ha-HAAA! I just wasted a spy trying to get into Mother Base! No matter how old or how banged-up I get, I've still got it! Woo! Nice to see you're feeling better, EVA. Yeah, kinda went through a mid-life crisis earlier, but now I know I'm gonna be badass even when I'm a granny! So, he gets a letter from his dead wife, and walks down this eerie long foggy trail to a mysterious town with no inhabitants, but he finds many notes left to him…as if the inhabitants were still right there in the room with him… Oooh, creepy! I love it! More insurgents attacking our clients! We'll earn our pay tonight! EVERYBODY SING SOME SEA SHANTIES! We've got a hell of a lot of coastal cities, might as well develop some maritime culture. Bah, I'll show you sea shanties. I'm from Japan, we are maritime culture. .jpg) I am Copernicus the Stargazer! I will help you unravel the mysteries of the universe by looking at the sky! Okay. How's it look? …Hmm. The sky's a bit hazy. I'll try again later. Just did some more on-site recruitment of these barbarians attacking Cape Town! We'll have a pretty good army built up if this keeps up! *sigh* Alfred Nobel, I totally understand how you feel now… Wonder if they'll ever make an Emmerich Prize… Well, one good thing has come out of all this mess. We've done such a good job protecting the independent states that they're throwing their weight behind us politically. Now, there's just one thing to do… Brrr… Vlad, are you going to let us in your country or not? NOBODY enters my country! Just thought I'd ask. I hope I know what I'm doing… ATTACK!To Be Continued!
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Apr 24, 2014 04:11
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Looks like the snatcher was scary enough for Snake to calm down about Vlad. That and there were no signs that he's a vampire.
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Apr 24, 2014 04:35
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quote:Bah, I'll show you sea shanties. I'm from Japan, we are maritime culture. ...I wonder if it's a bad thing to think 'that explains a whole lot'.
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Apr 24, 2014 05:00
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Speedball posted:
Oh poor Big Boss, never can catch a break.
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Apr 24, 2014 05:02
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Bloodly posted:...I wonder if it's a bad thing to think 'that explains a whole lot'. I think it's a joke about a BNW patch that changed Japan's special power. They get culture from fishing boats and atolls now, and embarked samurai can create fishing boats.
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Apr 24, 2014 05:05
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Speedball posted:
Considering you've got a bunch of luxuries he doesn't you probably could've just given those 3 for open borders. Unless he's feeling hostile or something.
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Apr 24, 2014 05:14
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Both a Pirates of Penzance reference AND a goofy magic 8 ball reference in one update? Be still my beating heart!
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Apr 24, 2014 05:15
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StarPilot87 posted:Considering you've got a bunch of luxuries he doesn't you probably could've just given those 3 for open borders. Unless he's feeling hostile or something. He used the 'what do you want for this' button, if vlad was willing to accept the luxuries he would have asked for them. The 'I see no way of making this deal work' response means he does not want you in his territory for any reason short of you giving him some of your cities, probably.
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Apr 24, 2014 05:16
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I'm kinda disappointed that this seems to be going the way of another Domination victory. I want to see Snake trying to go into space or get voted Ultimate World Ruler!
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Apr 24, 2014 05:47
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Mors Rattus posted:I'm kinda disappointed that this seems to be going the way of another Domination victory. I want to see Snake trying to go into space or get voted Ultimate World Ruler! 
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Apr 24, 2014 07:00
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StarPilot87 posted:Considering you've got a bunch of luxuries he doesn't you probably could've just given those 3 for open borders. Unless he's feeling hostile or something.  He probably caused the "I don't see any way to make this work" thing with a more outrageous offer and then changed it to Open Borders without asking again.
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Apr 24, 2014 08:01
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Mighty Dicktron posted:
He's conquered half the known world already, I'm pretty sure the warmonger penalty has long since crossed the point of no return.
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Apr 24, 2014 08:08
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Cythereal posted:I think it's a joke about a BNW patch that changed Japan's special power. They get culture from fishing boats and atolls now, and embarked samurai can create fishing boats. Japan being basically a largeish island surrounded by smaller islands has a very long history of boats.
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Apr 24, 2014 08:19
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And yet for the most part they treated naval combat like land combat. Have you seen their designs for war boats? Nothing about naval combat, they were all designed for boarding actions. Which is great for capturing boats, but...
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Apr 24, 2014 11:22
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Man, Rome is still hanging in there without Augustus!
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Apr 24, 2014 11:33
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Zebrin posted:And yet for the most part they treated naval combat like land combat. Have you seen their designs for war boats? Nothing about naval combat, they were all designed for boarding actions. Which is great for capturing boats, but... Complex cultural and resource interactions meant that trying to take enemy boats intact by boarding was preferable to the western 'sink the fuckers' approach. Japan has a lot of wierd interactions thanks to its interesting location, access to resources and very old culture. e: That's not to say they didn't sink boats. Fireships were known and employed amongst other more destructive techniques, the Japanese just in general preferred to end a fight by stabbing some people. Neruz fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 11:57
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Kurieg posted:He used the 'what do you want for this' button, if vlad was willing to accept the luxuries he would have asked for them. The 'I see no way of making this deal work' response means he does not want you in his territory for any reason short of you giving him some of your cities, probably. This isn't necessarily true. I've gotten deals out of AIs even when they said that. However, do note that you manually have to offer quite a bit of stuff in this case. Those three luxuries will only be the beginning.
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Apr 24, 2014 14:40
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Zebrin posted:And yet for the most part they treated naval combat like land combat. Have you seen their designs for war boats? Nothing about naval combat, they were all designed for boarding actions. Which is great for capturing boats, but... Have you never played Homeworld?
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Apr 24, 2014 15:05
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Zebrin posted:And yet for the most part they treated naval combat like land combat. Have you seen their designs for war boats? Nothing about naval combat, they were all designed for boarding actions. Which is great for capturing boats, but... Lots of truth here. One of the reasons Korea's tiny navy was able to resist Japanese forces is that the Koreans made "turtle" ships, covered in curved metal with swords sticking out like a porcupine, i.e. essentially unboardable.
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Apr 24, 2014 15:27
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| # ? Jun 17, 2024 23:33 |
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gregory posted:Lots of truth here. One of the reasons Korea's tiny navy was able to resist Japanese forces is that the Koreans made "turtle" ships, covered in curved metal with swords sticking out like a porcupine, i.e. essentially unboardable. The armor also made the Turtle Ships quite resistant to arrows, muskets and incendiary bombs, making them extremely hard to destroy that way too (at least before they destroyed you). They were the tanks of the shallow coastal seas (you did not take Turtle Ships into the high seas they would sink). Neruz fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 15:34
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