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I will just google dangan ronpa 2 spoilers if this doesn't finish.
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Apr 5, 2014 09:43
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pnumoman posted:But no, just call it entitlement when I suggest that the reason why this company can sell those games at all is largely due to orenronen, and it would be cool to have a company acknowledge that. Yes, I may have engaged in some hyperbole when I suggested that it was shady as gently caress to completely ignore orenronen, but going above and beyond to acknowledge a community that gave you a loving new market is pretty drat cool. And I don't see how that's pandering, much less a bizarre concept of PR. That is the definition of fansub entitlement, yes. Orenronen's LP certainly helped generated fan interest in the game but he didn't make the games. He did not write them, code them, script them, or in any format create the product. This is not to disrespect the hard work he did in making a good and engaging LP but what he did was present a product that already existed. There is a not-insignificant chance that Danganronpa would have gotten some form of English release even if this LP didn't exist because Danganronpa was an increasingly popular franchise in Japan and got a Vita re-release which allowed it to be published on a modern system. The LP certainly contributed to the active interest in the game but the franchise itself was popular enough that one of the many import companies would likely have looked at it. I mean Atlus USA is publishing Conception II, a game by the same developer and in which Monokuma has a cameo and DLC. You cited the Game Center CX translations but appear to have completely misunderstood what happened there. Game Center CX got an English release because the Japanese company specifically was shopping it overseas. They were doing this before any significant fansubbing efforts were underway. Dubbed versions of the episodes existed and were the ones they were originally promoting. The SA Game Center CX translations were not purchased by the company, nor officially recognized by the company. One of the translators who did fansubs went on to work on the offical release but even in that case they were not using the SA translation, and it was not a case of the company going "man, you fansubbers are great," it was a case of the translator being hired on their own merits and connections. Even after being hired they specifically didn't just reuse their SACX scripts but gave it a new and more thorough translation. And all of this is ignoring that they literally could not have just 'used orenonen's script' because it was unfinished. A huge chunk of the incidental dialogue, Free Time events and various other content was not part of the LP. (For understandable reasons.) Not to mention that the entirety of the School Mode added into the Vita re-release was not even touched for obvious reasons. Any good translator would probably have to translate the game from scratch anyway just to assure that context, word choice, character voice, and various other factors all mesh. Someone translating Mondo's dialogue for School Mode would innately write it differently from oronronen. You can even see the difference in writing style just with the fact that the DR2 LP has a dedicated editor. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 11:10 on Apr 5, 2014 |
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Apr 5, 2014 10:19
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I appreciate your post, ImpAtom. You worded that much better than I could have, and you nailed every fundamental point. It's also worth mentioning that Orenronen has been very modest and gracious about his work and the way people have received it. Those who claim that he deserves some kind of reward or recognition from NIS (because he had first dibs or whatever other reason) are doing more harm to him and his reputation than good.
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Apr 5, 2014 11:11
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Hokuto posted:I appreciate your post, ImpAtom. You worded that much better than I could have, and you nailed every fundamental point. Yeah, I have to completely agree with that. For all that this discussion popped up in this thread, at no point have I ever felt like Orenronen is anything but a gracious fan who really enjoyed showing off something he liked and is honestly glad to see other people enjoy it as well. It's part of why I'm really looking forward to seeing what else he wants to work on because if it is something he's interested in dedicating the time and effort into translating, it's almost certainly going to be something fun and worthwhile.
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Apr 5, 2014 11:16
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I wonder how difficult it would be to port Orenronen's script into the English re-release. 
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Apr 5, 2014 16:59
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Raenir Salazar posted:I wonder how difficult it would be to port Orenronen's script into the English re-release. Shut the gently caress up.
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Apr 5, 2014 17:03
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Is modding games not a thing where you live?
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Apr 5, 2014 17:05
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The point is that it comes off as kind of weird and fan-worshippy to put oren's translation on a pedestal, when the official English script will in all likelihood be perfectly fine(it was for DR1, why would 2 be different?). Orenronen's done good work, and I appreciate his insights into the translation process, but he's not the only person in the world who can make a good danganronpa translation.
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Apr 5, 2014 18:11
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Haifisch posted:The point is that it comes off as kind of weird and fan-worshippy to put oren's translation on a pedestal, when the official English script will in all likelihood be perfectly fine(it was for DR1, why would 2 be different?). Thank you, that is a good and well articulated point, I generally don't think of it like that, I think of it the same way I do when I put the voices of the cast of Top Gear into World of Tanks.
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Apr 5, 2014 18:17
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Raenir Salazar posted:Thank you, that is a good and well articulated point, I generally don't think of it like that, I think of it the same way I do when I put the voices of the cast of Top Gear into World of Tanks. Uh, what?
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Apr 6, 2014 20:59
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Anatharon posted:Uh, what? He's saying that he wasn't viewing modding in orenronen's translation as some sort of weird devotion to this as the "one true version," but more akin to replacing voice clips in a game with different ones.
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Apr 6, 2014 21:26
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REMOVED (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 23, 2014 04:13
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 edit: its nsfw. youve been warned El Spider fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Apr 23, 2014 |
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Apr 23, 2014 16:57
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Now, with no updates and no nerds to make fun of, the goons resort to barbarism. This game comes out in September, right? I'm still looking forward to Oren's final(?) update, because I suck at mysteries and I'll only beat this game through trial and error. It's how I beat Phoenix Wright.
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Apr 23, 2014 17:01
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Haifisch posted:The point is that it comes off as kind of weird and fan-worshippy to put oren's translation on a pedestal, when the official English script will in all likelihood be perfectly fine(it was for DR1, why would 2 be different?). He may not be the only person in the world who can make a good translation, but he seems to be the only person in the world with the good sense enough to use "Super High School Level". I certainly don't hold his DR1 translation on any kind of pedestal; it's rough around the edges for sure seeing as it was done by, you know, one single person. But some of NIS' choices are just plain stupid.
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Apr 23, 2014 19:20
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EdgeryWorthy posted:He may not be the only person in the world who can make a good translation, but he seems to be the only person in the world with the good sense enough to use "Super High School Level". I really can't overstate enough how much of a shame I think it is that the SHSL Translation Patch is cancelled; I was really, really happy with how that was turning out word-wise. I mean, of course I'd think that, doing editing for it, but man, it was really good, you guys.
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Apr 23, 2014 19:49
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Fedule posted:I really can't overstate enough how much of a shame I think it is that the SHSL Translation Patch is cancelled; I was really, really happy with how that was turning out word-wise. I, for one, can't wait to see that comparison between the different translations that either you or Admiral H. Curtiss said would happen because your editing is pretty great and some of HelloWinter's graphics were phenomenal, like the English magazine covers or Judge Monobear.
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Apr 23, 2014 19:52
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ChaosArgate posted:I, for one, can't wait to see that comparison between the different translations that either you or Admiral H. Curtiss said would happen because your editing is pretty great and some of HelloWinter's graphics were phenomenal, like the English magazine covers or Judge Monobear. Oh god I completely forgot about that, which is kinda terrifying.
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Apr 23, 2014 20:04
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Perhaps HelloWinter has more time to do Phoenix Wright now that Dangan Ronpa seems to come to an end?
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Apr 23, 2014 20:19
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EdgeryWorthy posted:He may not be the only person in the world who can make a good translation, but he seems to be the only person in the world with the good sense enough to use "Super High School Level". If it's any consolation, the Funimation sub of the anime also went with "Super High School Level".
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Apr 23, 2014 20:20
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Torrannor posted:Perhaps HelloWinter has more time to do Phoenix Wright now that Dangan Ronpa seems to come to an end? 
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Apr 23, 2014 20:23
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Torrannor posted:Perhaps HelloWinter has more time to do Phoenix Wright now that Dangan Ronpa seems to come to an end? I miss that thread a lot, but wouldn't she have to reupload all of the old updates so people could catch up? Talk about a deluge of images.
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Apr 23, 2014 21:12
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So is this thread for definite finished, or close to finished? What a shame.
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Apr 23, 2014 21:15
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Patter Song posted:I miss that thread a lot, but wouldn't she have to reupload all of the old updates so people could catch up? Talk about a deluge of images. Huh? She would only need to reopen her thread? A quick look makes me think all images are still there:http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3490301
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Apr 23, 2014 21:17
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Torrannor posted:Huh? She would only need to reopen her thread? A quick look makes me think all images are still there:http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3490301 That thread's been moved to archives, so it's permanently stuck there. She'd have to make a whole new thread.
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Apr 23, 2014 21:19
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eating only apples posted:So is this thread for definite finished, or close to finished? What a shame. Oren has stated on twitter (or was it here?) that the reason he hasn't been updating is due to him being busy since he's permanently moving to Japan. At the very least, I think he said he would definitely finish Chapter 3.
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Apr 23, 2014 21:19
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eating only apples posted:So is this thread for definite finished, or close to finished? What a shame. oren has said we'll at least see this chapter to the end. But as far as he was indicating during the interview on that podcast he's probably gonna stop. BlazeEmblem posted:If it's any consolation, the Funimation sub of the anime also went with "Super High School Level". It might have been a consolation if that anime had been twice the length.
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Apr 23, 2014 21:20
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Fedule posted:I really can't overstate enough how much of a shame I think it is that the SHSL Translation Patch is cancelled; I was really, really happy with how that was turning out word-wise. You should throw what you finished up anyways, imo.
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Apr 24, 2014 01:56
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Patter Song posted:I miss that thread a lot, but wouldn't she have to reupload all of the old updates so people could catch up? Talk about a deluge of images. ... I was thinking of doing something special to catch up with where we got so far with the LP. But we shall see how that goes when we get there. The good news is that I've got my Windows PC back with all the work files so I just need to get off my lazy butt.
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Apr 24, 2014 02:15
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I much more prefer this this LP over playing a localized version cause there's some stuff that just doesn't translate well that benefit greatly from being able to have long translator's notes that just plain wouldn't work in a translated game.
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Apr 24, 2014 05:28
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HelloWinter posted:... I was thinking of doing something special to catch up with where we got so far with the LP. But we shall see how that goes when we get there. HelloWinter you spoil us so
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Apr 24, 2014 18:58
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Well, yes. If this means that HelloWinter starts doing Phoenix Wright LPs again, I don't mind if this LP ends here and now.
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Apr 24, 2014 22:17
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Booourns posted:I much more prefer this this LP over playing a localized version cause there's some stuff that just doesn't translate well that benefit greatly from being able to have long translator's notes that just plain wouldn't work in a translated game. Actually, a game translated by an actual capable person does not need translator's notes and also doesn't keep the stupid honorifics
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Apr 28, 2014 14:28
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ANIME MONSTROSITY posted:Actually, a game translated by an actual capable person does not need translator's notes and also doesn't keep the stupid honorifics I think he's saying that it's good to know the background of the original Japanese when it was noteworthy, I'm pretty sure most of Oren's translation notes are more like directors commentary than required reading, so I'd say he's capable. I agree with the earlier poster that it's nice to get the inside scoop on the process with Fed and Oren's notes, and that obviously is lost in an official translation. That being said, I'm also someone who really doesn't like the Honorifics either. I think if it can't be translated 'properly' the correct course isn't to not translate them and leave them in. But that discussion has been done to death already.
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Apr 28, 2014 14:52
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ANIME MONSTROSITY posted:Actually, a game translated by an actual capable person does not need translator's notes and also doesn't keep the stupid honorifics It's a matter of taste. Are annotated editions of translated classics "incompetently translated" by definition? Obviously I'm not comparing the cultural importance of Dangan Ronpa to that of something like Anna Karenina by any stretch, but the point still holds. Some of us like to learn something, no matter how small, while we're consuming our media. Certainly a translated and published copy of a game to actually play is not the place for translator's notes, but an LP can be, and that's one reason why people appreciate it, myself included. As for honorifics, that discussion has indeed been done to death. I will simply observe that as someone who has interacted with the international scientific community, there are absolutely English speakers who use them. English-speaking scientists who don't speak another word of Japanese will refer to their Japanese colleagues as -san or -sensei, not Mr./Mrs./Ms./Dr. Thus-and-So.
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Apr 28, 2014 15:34
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Confused Llama posted:As for honorifics, that discussion has indeed been done to death. I will simply observe that as someone who has interacted with the international scientific community, there are absolutely English speakers who use them. English-speaking scientists who don't speak another word of Japanese will refer to their Japanese colleagues as -san or -sensei, not Mr./Mrs./Ms./Dr. Thus-and-So. This happens where I work as well (in between the Japanese employees speaking to each other in English as well). On the other hand, nobody does this for the Koreans, so either they don't know enough Korean or they're all secret anime nerds. Personally I think it's fine to leave language honorifics in when the story is in a native or historical setting. This isn't any different from a translation of The Count of Monte Cristo leaving in "monsieur", and nobody's ever been upset about that.
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Apr 29, 2014 07:44
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HelloWinter posted:... I was thinking of doing something special to catch up with where we got so far with the LP. But we shall see how that goes when we get there. Your AA LP was one of the best LPs around and I was terribly sad that it ended just when the game was getting to its best bits. I mean I don't blame you since it is obviously a ton of effort but still, I miss that thread and all the sky/ceiling shenanigans and great fanart in it. Would be great to see it alive again.
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Apr 29, 2014 08:49
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Mr VacBob posted:Personally I think it's fine to leave language honorifics in when the story is in a native or historical setting. This isn't any different from a translation of The Count of Monte Cristo leaving in "monsieur", and nobody's ever been upset about that. In the first game Japanese name order was a plot point in the third trial with Celes' real name and Yamada's insistence on calling everyone Lastname Firstname-dono, so it made a lot of sense keeping it in there, and continuing it in this LP is just consistency.
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Apr 29, 2014 17:37
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Confused Llama posted:It's a matter of taste. Are annotated editions of translated classics "incompetently translated" by definition? Obviously I'm not comparing the cultural importance of Dangan Ronpa to that of something like Anna Karenina by any stretch, but the point still holds. Some of us like to learn something, no matter how small, while we're consuming our media. Certainly a translated and published copy of a game to actually play is not the place for translator's notes, but an LP can be, and that's one reason why people appreciate it, myself included. When I read Brothers Karamazov, there were some Polish nobles that got into a conflict with Dmitri and the version I was using had them be called Panie whatever rather than translating Panie as Sir, and included a footnote. I don't get the idea that properly-translated things don't have linguistic footnotes.
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Apr 29, 2014 17:48
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Patter Song posted:When I read Brothers Karamazov, there were some Polish nobles that got into a conflict with Dmitri and the version I was using had them be called Panie whatever rather than translating Panie as Sir, and included a footnote. I don't get the idea that properly-translated things don't have linguistic footnotes. The difference is that you were reading a book. While translator's notes are perfectly compatible with that format, no one wants to pause the game at odd moments to look up what obscure honorific the murderee just used. Plus, no such function exists in the original game, which means even more recoding.
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Apr 29, 2014 18:13
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