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TacoHavoc posted:I know this is a little older, but seriously, don't backfill that with gravel in contact with the pipe. Dig your trench, and make sure you tamp any soil you disturb on the bottom. Put 4-6 inches of screened sand along the bottom of the trench, tamp again. Lay pipe. Fill trench until sand is at least 4 inches deep over pipe, tamp (carefully). Then backfill with gravel/rocks/whatever you have. Depending how deep you're going you might want to use some metallic marker tape at least a shovel height over the line, but that's between you and code in your area. My 'plan' was to run the copper inside some of that perforated french drain type pipe with screening over the holes to allow for water flow, and have it run either under or parallel with the new sewage line I'll be running. It will be going under the water table under a slab, so is metalic marker tape even helpful? If something bad happens after the slab and tile are put down, It's going to be abandoned in place, not dug up and fixed.
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May 5, 2014 15:16
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So my house has a weird bathroom setup where the cast iron sewage vent pipe comes straight through the middle of the bathroom in front of the mirrors/cabinetry and runs through the attic to the roof. Its incredibly obnoxious and has destroyed any hope of remodeling. From what reading I've done you can't really put a bend in a SVP; is this accurate? Also is it even remotely feasible to move a vent pipe since its a direct connection that runs straight down through the house and connects with the sewage line? Any help would be appreciated.
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May 5, 2014 21:10
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Wrath of the Bitch King posted:So my house has a weird bathroom setup where the cast iron sewage vent pipe comes straight through the middle of the bathroom in front of the mirrors/cabinetry and runs through the attic to the roof. Its incredibly obnoxious and has destroyed any hope of remodeling. It's just a vent pipe. You can put another one where it's convenient/out of the way and abandon/demolish the other one. What makes sense really depends on your home's layout and current plans, but be assured this is not a show stopper. edit: what I mean by this is you can change where you "soil stack" is going to make the vent, and reconnect things as laterals.
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May 5, 2014 21:15
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Atmus posted:My 'plan' was to run the copper inside some of that perforated french drain type pipe with screening over the holes to allow for water flow, and have it run either under or parallel with the new sewage line I'll be running. It will be going under the water table under a slab, so is metalic marker tape even helpful? Ah, sorry, missed the "under slab" part. All my earthwork experience is outdoors so I just kind of made the assumption. I don't have any experience and I don't want to lead you the wrong way. My bad.
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May 5, 2014 23:26
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So the latest problem in the months long saga of my dad and i installing a furnace in my house is that Dad was testing the gas line today and says that all of the piping that we installed up to the shutoff will hold air all day long (my county require 10lbs for 10 min), but that when we open up the shutoff between the line and the furnace it won't hold. I was at work today while he was working on my house so I don't really know what he was doing, but he said he replaced the flex and re-tightened the 1/2 inch black iron between the flex and the furnace itself, which is comprised of a half in nipple sticking out the side and a t with a drip leg going down and a nipple on the top for the flex to connect to. Dad thinks that the appliance itself is leaking. My question is if that is really a concern or not. It is a brand new 80% efficient Goodman furnace. Are appliances expected to pass a pressure test? The only thing I can find in the installation manual is about minimum pressure coming off the gas line for the furnace to work. Can anyone give me a clue?
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May 6, 2014 03:10
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therobit posted:So the latest problem in the months long saga of my dad and i installing a furnace in my house is that Dad was testing the gas line today and says that all of the piping that we installed up to the shutoff will hold air all day long (my county require 10lbs for 10 min), but that when we open up the shutoff between the line and the furnace it won't hold. Please tell me you didn't slam 10psi into the appliance. They aren't designed to handle that much pressure, natural gas in homes is usually at like 0.25-0.5 psi. Only thing to do at this point is to spray all the joins outside of the furnace with soapy water and see if you can get any bubbles. WeaselWeaz posted:I think it's generally a good idea to add replacement shut-off valves to the "optional" column when doing work. You shouldn't always need to replace them, but I've had to replace old valves that started leaking after turning them off and on when fixing my toilet and kitchen faucet. It was a lot easier with the kitchen because I'd already picked up extra valves, except it was leaking from the worn out compression nut so I had to run out to the store, buy a pipe cutter, and cut the old fitting off the pipe. Also, for a toilet I prefer using a quarter-turn shut-off valve. The look nicer and seem more durable. Treating that stuff as optional is what leads to people needing for take 5 trips to the store. Unless the closet bolts are pretty much brand new and solid-brass replace them, unless the angle stop is already 1/4 turn replace it. Only time I would recommend a homeowner trying to get away with not replacing their angel stop is if it's attached to galvi.
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May 6, 2014 04:22
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Jadunk posted:Please tell me you didn't slam 10psi into the appliance. They aren't designed to handle that much pressure, natural gas in homes is usually at like 0.25-0.5 psi. Only thing to do at this point is to spray all the joins outside of the furnace with soapy water and see if you can get any bubbles. Uh, well, I would guess that my father did, but I have not asked specifically. I doubt he got it up to pressure though. So did he likely just destroy some internals? e: Just asked my dad and apparently he pumped it up to 22psi. God help us. therobit fucked around with this message at 05:41 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 04:58
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therobit posted:Uh, well, I would guess that my father did, but I have not asked specifically. I doubt he got it up to pressure though. So did he likely just destroy some internals? Hopefully he just blew out a regulator or something simple! I don't really do furnaces, but I know if you threw that much pressure at a water heater you'd likely be replacing the gas control. From what I understand (this knowledge is like third-hand) most furnaces and gas stoves have another pressure regulator / reducer built in so hopefully that's all that blew out. I'll try to remember to ask our lead HVAC guy tomorrow morning and update you after work about what you're likely going to have to replace. (assuming you still need help at that point and you don't figure out it's some silly simple thing)
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May 6, 2014 07:01
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My ancient condo building is still old, inefficient steam radiators in each apartment, warmed with oil. I'm in charge of figuring out how to save costs. We are in Boston. Oil: $3.50 per gallon Natural Gas: $1.70 per gallon equivilent Electricity: .08 per KWH The stuff I'm researching is: a) Individual vented natural gas radiators in each apartment (wall mounted units where each radiator used to be) b) Single large natural gas furnace in basement c) Electrical heat pump system on rooftop d) Ground-coupled heat pump in basement Is there anything else I should be looking at? In my mind, b and d might involve taking out all the radiators with a hack saw and turning the pipes left behind into floor vents... does that actually work in real life?
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May 6, 2014 21:10
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Zero VGS posted:My ancient condo building is still old, inefficient steam radiators in each apartment, warmed with oil. I'm in charge of figuring out how to save costs. We are in Boston. Are the hot water radiators or steam radiators? If hot water, you just want to put a big freaking natural gas furnace in the basement, unless you live somewhere relatively warm and cost effective for geothermal (hint: it's usually not once you figure in the cost of electric for the ground loop pump - I'm gonna guess Boston is right out). And lololololol on using radiator piping as forced air vents.
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May 6, 2014 21:22
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Zero VGS posted:Is there anything else I should be looking at? Insulation. It depends on how bad things currently are, but reducing your heat loss can save a lot more than just burning a cheaper fuel. Cogeneration. Burn fuel to generate electricity, use the practically free waste heat to keep your building warm. Probably impractical to actually make happen. Motronic posted:unless you live somewhere relatively warm and cost effective for geothermal (hint: it's usually not once you figure in the cost of electric for the ground loop pump - I'm gonna guess Boston is right out). They still tend to be cost effective including the pumping energy (even compared to natural gas, much less fuel oil), but they can be worse overall for carbon emissions (depending on local electric mix). I'd be surprised if a city condo had enough spare land for the ground loop, though. Zhentar fucked around with this message at 21:42 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 21:37
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Motronic posted:Are the hot water radiators or steam radiators? If hot water, you just want to put a big freaking natural gas furnace in the basement, unless you live somewhere relatively warm and cost effective for geothermal (hint: it's usually not once you figure in the cost of electric for the ground loop pump - I'm gonna guess Boston is right out). Steam radiators unfortunately. Good to know the radiator piping is a no-go for forced air. What about networking natural gas tubing through it? Basically to route the basement gas supply to each of the radiator spots so I can switch each with a wall-mount natural gas space heater?
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May 6, 2014 22:08
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Zero VGS posted:What about networking natural gas tubing through it? Absofuckinglutely no. Your code enforcement officer will shoot you for even bringing this up. Unless you are talking about using it as a conduit for some manner of proper gas piping......in which case you are just doing things the hard way.
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May 7, 2014 00:27
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Motronic posted:Absofuckinglutely no. The second thing, natural gas flex cable with the pipes simply keeping things organized and bundled. Even I'm not crazy enough to suggest actual gas free in the steam pipes.
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May 7, 2014 00:41
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Zero VGS posted:The second thing, natural gas flex cable with the pipes simply keeping things organized and bundled. Even I'm not crazy enough to suggest actual gas free in the steam pipes. No offense, but this means you've never run gasflex or really any kind of cable before. That's the hard way to go. It would be so much easier to demo the old stuff and just used the spaces it used to occupy to run something appropriate. And by weight even with cast iron it would be worth 1/2 the materials cost as scrap.
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May 7, 2014 03:17
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therobit posted:Uh, well, I would guess that my father did, but I have not asked specifically. I doubt he got it up to pressure though. So did he likely just destroy some internals? Okay so coming back to this, I talked to our HVAC dude, he said if you're super lucky you might've just jammed the poo poo outta an internal diaphragm. He said that once the gas is turned on try firing it up with the cover off and gently tapping on the gas control near the inlet with a hammer or rubber mallet. If you're lucky the diaphragm will go back to where it should, if you're not you are in for a new gas control valve. (alternately go ahead and just order in a replacement gas control and swap it out) I don't know if this will make you feel better or not but we all had a good laugh at the shop this morning at your expense! Then they had a good laugh that I go home and spend my free time thinking about plumbing.
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May 7, 2014 04:54
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Jadunk posted:Okay so coming back to this, I talked to our HVAC dude, he said if you're super lucky you might've just jammed the poo poo outta an internal diaphragm. He said that once the gas is turned on try firing it up with the cover off and gently tapping on the gas control near the inlet with a hammer or rubber mallet. If you're lucky the diaphragm will go back to where it should, if you're not you are in for a new gas control valve. (alternately go ahead and just order in a replacement gas control and swap it out) Thanks for this. I Just got back from talking with my dad and the diy heating shop I guess has a guy that mostly just fires up furnaces for a living. Taking everything into consideration, Dad just wants to buy the part and hire this guy to start it. He talked to the guy today, who was concerned about the shutoff valves and said we should have tested the whole gas system with capped lines. He said the shutoffs are only made for 5psi or so. He wants us to get our green slip for the gas lines and then have him come out to replace the furnace gas control valve and start the thing. So what it looks like to me is replace the shutoffs and and do a 24hr line test with caps on at 20psi. Does that sound right? Would 12 hrs be sufficient? When Dad was testing it I had the gas shut off to the between the piping to the furnace than the meter with an inline ball valve, but dad did not shut off the meter or the valves to the water heater. The water heater was running the whole time and is currently working, and I am thinking that it would not have held any pressure at all if the ball valve that had shut off the gas to the furnace line had failed as there would be nothing to stop it from just going up the line/into the water heater. Am I off base here? Do I really need to test the whole system? The inspector already signed off on the water heater, and that test was from the water heater back to the meter.
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May 7, 2014 06:31
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therobit posted:Thanks for this. I Just got back from talking with my dad and the diy heating shop I guess has a guy that mostly just fires up furnaces for a living. Taking everything into consideration, Dad just wants to buy the part and hire this guy to start it. He talked to the guy today, who was concerned about the shutoff valves and said we should have tested the whole gas system with capped lines. He said the shutoffs are only made for 5psi or so. He wants us to get our green slip for the gas lines and then have him come out to replace the furnace gas control valve and start the thing. He is correct in that the standard gas cocks (http://www.brasscraft.com/products.aspx?id=218) are rated to 5psi internal pressure. If they're holding pressure I wouldn't worry about any new-style gas shutoffs. The old style ones did tend to blow if you tried to pressurize against them, so any old-style gas valves it wouldn't hurt to replace. If all the new piping has been gas tested and signed off you're good to go, you shouldn't have to test all the unchanged gas piping barring local ordinances. (sometimes localities will tack on extra stuff, two of the towns nearby require you add a seismic valve at the meter anytime you pull a permit for anything with a project valuation over 5k) Basically, if stuff is currently working properly don't worry about it. If you over pressured the water heater just make sure the flame looks normal and if it does you should be good. If you have any more detailed questions a simple line drawing would really, really help.
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May 7, 2014 08:32
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I'm putting a toilet back in after replacing the bathroom floor. Following the advice of this thread I got a new quarter-turn valve and supply line. Now I'm looking at the old nut and ferrule on this pipe: The ferrule is compressed into a groove on the pipe and won't come off. I guess this is intentional? Do I just reuse it? Try to cut just the ferrule loose? I don't think there's enough pipe left to cut the pipe off just behind it.
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May 8, 2014 15:33
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Cpt.Wacky posted:I'm putting a toilet back in after replacing the bathroom floor. Following the advice of this thread I got a new quarter-turn valve and supply line. Now I'm looking at the old nut and ferrule on this pipe: First, try to use the old nut and ferrule with the new valve. If it leaks or you want to use a new nut because the old one is ugly, Then you have 2 options. The first is tool called a ferrule puller, but they don't always work for ferrules really dug into the pipe. The other option is to replace that length of 1/2" copper. If you already have wall access back to the elbow behind the nut and ferrule like in your picture, then I would just sweat out that old section and replace it. And yes, that compression is intentional. The ferrule is intended to deform itself and the pipe as you tighten the nut down onto it for a water-tight fit. Another edit: that ferrule is pretty far back from the tip. You may have to cut some length of the end of that pipe to fit on the new valve. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 20:09 on May 8, 2014 |
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May 8, 2014 19:57
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kid sinister posted:First, try to use the old nut and ferrule with the new valve. If it leaks or you want to use a new nut because the old one is ugly, Then you have 2 options. The first is tool called a ferrule puller, but they don't always work for ferrules really dug into the pipe. The other option is to replace that length of 1/2" copper. If you already have wall access back to the elbow behind the nut and ferrule like in your picture, then I would just sweat out that old section and replace it. I would add that I was taught to always put a little pipe dope on the ferrule itself. It doesn't look like you should have any trouble using a ferrule puller if re-using it doesn't work, usually when I have trouble it's because the copper is paper thing and starts splitting when I tighten the puller down. Assuming the 90 is usually concealed by wall you could also cut close-ish to the 90 and put a sharkbite coupling on there to extended the pipe out if you don't want to try your hand at soldering. (soldering isn't that tough on dry 1/2" pipe)
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May 10, 2014 02:24
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Does anyone know what steps are needed to remove old probably Asbestos pipe insulation. I want to replace my old GE 50s boiler with something a little more modern and fuel efficient, hopefully with a combi unit so I can dump the hot water heater to. I had my Plumber come out and he said he can't touch it and I'd need to have it removed before he could start. Everything I read online says "don't gently caress with it you'll be killed in the future by cancer and getting rid of the material is a legal mess". Is this accurate? There isn't much to remove 5 feet from the looks of it and no where I live in MA will take Asbestos materials from the brief research I've read online. The New England utilities are offering $3500 rebate for upgrading your boiler system so it seems like a smart move to make. Thanks
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May 13, 2014 23:45
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KennyLoggins posted:Does anyone know what steps are needed to remove old probably Asbestos pipe insulation. Call asbestos abatement companies in your area. That little amount should be cheap.
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May 14, 2014 00:58
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You need to call an asbestos abatement company. They will build a wall of plastic with an entry and negative air pressure. Walk in and put on tyvek suits and respirators Enter the area usually wet it down and cut it out/off. Stuff it in double or triple garbage bags. Leave the main room and enter the entry room and disrobe. Then put those in garbage bags, then enter the fresh air and get dressed. Asbestos flying around in the air is a bad thing. Will you get cancer and die for 5th probably not but you probably don't want to risk it.
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May 14, 2014 01:05
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tater_salad posted:You need to call an asbestos abatement company. They will build a wall of plastic with an entry and negative air pressure. Walk in and put on tyvek suits and respirators Enter the area usually wet it down and cut it out/off. Stuff it in double or triple garbage bags. Leave the main room and enter the entry room and disrobe. Then put those in garbage bags, then enter the fresh air and get dressed. Or they'll just bag that short section of pipe and cut it out (and simply unbolt the circulator pump flange on the other side) the day of the new heater install rather than potentially contaminating an entire area by loving with it. If the abatement company doesn't suggest this you shouldn't hire them because they are either incompetent or money grubbing (or both).
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May 14, 2014 01:20
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For some reason I was thinking of the totally balls out way to remove asbestos from large areas. Motronic has the right idea on what they'd do.
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May 14, 2014 01:26
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Motronic posted:Or they'll just bag that short section of pipe and cut it out (and simply unbolt the circulator pump flange on the other side) the day of the new heater install rather than potentially contaminating an entire area by loving with it. Thanks for this. This seems like the best solution I didn't even think of. I don't even know if it is indeed asbestos but given that the house was built in the mid 50s I wouldn't be surprised if it is.
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May 14, 2014 01:29
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Is this correct for a T&P drain pipe? There's a 1/2" gap between the bottom of the pipe and the pan.   The old water heater did not have a pan and developed a slow leak that went unnoticed for months. It was replaced with a new water heater and that pan, with the pan drain pipe going straight down through the floor to the crawlspace. Then the new heater and pan were pulled out to replace the subfloor. After installing the new floor I put the water heater back in like shown. The thing that confused me is that pipe coming of the T&P didn't fit. I had to cut about 6" off the vertical part at the bottom, and I'm not sure how it was installed originally on the replacement water heater. I think the original water heater had the T&P pipe going straight through the floor in the same spot but I'm not sure. I just want to make sure it's safe and (hopefully) to code.
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May 20, 2014 16:49
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Cpt.Wacky posted:Is this correct for a T&P drain pipe? There's a 1/2" gap between the bottom of the pipe and the pan. P2803.6.1 Requirements for discharge pipe. The discharge piping serving a pressure-relief valve, temperature relief valve or combination valve shall: 1. Not be directly connected to the drainage system. 2. Discharge through an air gap located in the same room as the water heater.
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May 20, 2014 17:46
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There's a study going on about a new development of tiny manufactured homes. The study includes energy and water use. Energy modeling is easy with REMRATE and figuring out local energy prices. However I'm unsure how to model water use. For example, new, higher quality water features have gone in, but consumption hasn't decreased. Perhaps people are still taking 10 minute showers, but the added water pressure means more water coming out? I need to understand people's consumption habits, whether the features are working correctly, and also whether the water infrastructure is operating correctly. What design framework should be used to figure this out? My initial reaction is to create a survey and distribute them to the residents to determine water consumption behavior. Given that we were told water consumption hasn't decreased, it seems implicit that there is a before-and-after data set of water consumption. Any advice, warnings, or general thoughts on how to approach this study?
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May 21, 2014 22:09
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:There's a study going on about a new development of tiny manufactured homes. The study includes energy and water use. Energy modeling is easy with REMRATE and figuring out local energy prices. However I'm unsure how to model water use. For example, new, higher quality water features have gone in, but consumption hasn't decreased. Perhaps people are still taking 10 minute showers, but the added water pressure means more water coming out? I need to understand people's consumption habits, whether the features are working correctly, and also whether the water infrastructure is operating correctly. Did the population increase? Energy used for cooking, heating or lighting remains pretty constant regarding an increase in population without an increase in housing, whereas water use doesn't follow the same pattern. Every individual needs to take their own shower or flush their own toilet, except if they're dirty hippies who only flush on every 2 drop so their bathrooms reek of piss.
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May 21, 2014 23:31
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:There's a study going on about a new development of tiny manufactured homes. The study includes energy and water use. Energy modeling is easy with REMRATE and figuring out local energy prices. However I'm unsure how to model water use. For example, new, higher quality water features have gone in, but consumption hasn't decreased. Perhaps people are still taking 10 minute showers, but the added water pressure means more water coming out? I need to understand people's consumption habits, whether the features are working correctly, and also whether the water infrastructure is operating correctly. Are you sure they're taking 10 minute showers? Lower GPM showerheads will often make people with long hair lengthen their shower. Did they also switch aerators in lavi and kitchen faucets? I really need to know what was and wasn't changed and also was the plumber told that the fixture modifications / changes were for an ongoing water reduction study? I know lots of plumbers that rip water savers out of showerheads and faucets every time they install them. Water pressure vs. water quantity is complicated. Short answer is that changing your water pressure typically will not dramatically change water volume.
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May 22, 2014 00:08
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Approximately three to six months ago I replaced the flapper in a toilet, it flushed like a dream afterwords and life was good. This morning, I went to flush and heard a faint tick followed by the handle going limp, the chain broke inside of the tank. I managed to bodge the broken chain back together (thank god for twist ties. . .) and sometime between now and whenever that fails I will buy a new flapper. But what I find strange is the fact that the chain broke since it was installed fairly recently. All I remember about the flapper that I installed is that it was the cheapest flapper available at Home Depot. Also, the chain originally had a black coating which is now completely gone leaving bare metal, is it normal for the coating to wear off or corrode away in less than six months time? Was this premature failure simply bad luck or a combination of the low quality flapper chain and god knows what in the city water? Not Wolverine fucked around with this message at 15:01 on May 23, 2014 |
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May 23, 2014 14:39
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My opinion, you are overthinking it. Toilets are easy to fix, just get new poo poo when the old poo poo breaks. But you probably just got a crappy chain, or it rubbed on something, or you are an excessively violent handle-pusher 
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May 23, 2014 14:57
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Crotch Fruit posted:Approximately three to six months ago I replaced the flapper in a toilet, it flushed like a dream afterwords and life was good. This morning, I went to flush and heard a faint tick followed by the handle going limp, the chain broke inside of the tank. I managed to bodge the broken chain back together (thank god for twist ties. . .) and sometime between now and whenever that fails I will buy a new flapper. Was it a fluid master? Those tend to fail pretty fast. JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:What design framework should be used to figure this out? My initial reaction is to create a survey and distribute them to the residents to determine water consumption behavior. Given that we were told water consumption hasn't decreased, it seems implicit that there is a before-and-after data set of water consumption. If you can get people to give you water bills, it will usually have the last 12 months of usage.
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May 23, 2014 17:22
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Sperg Victorious posted:Was it a fluid master? Those tend to fail pretty fast. The flapper is basically exactly the same as this 97 cent fluidmaster except Fluidmaster was at least proud enough to put their name on the product, mine has no name.  Also, I am pretty sure I paid more than a dollar for the drat thing. . . Good news! I found the exact chain that broke and it only costs 
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May 23, 2014 20:40
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Crotch Fruit posted:The flapper is basically exactly the same as this 97 cent fluidmaster except Fluidmaster was at least proud enough to put their name on the product, mine has no name. Ghetto option is a paper clip folded up to make the chain again.
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May 23, 2014 21:19
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When you said you fixed the chain with a ziptie I'm like "why didn't he just make a chain entirely out of zipties?"
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May 23, 2014 22:08
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Zero VGS posted:When you said you fixed the chain with a ziptie I'm like "why didn't he just make a chain entirely out of zipties?" Because the links in zip tie chains tend to catch on each other when you flush, preventing the flapper from going back down.
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May 24, 2014 02:12
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Thanks for the feedback everyone, I appreciate the insight and will do my best to get the data accordingly. I am particularly curious about :Jadunk posted:I know lots of plumbers that rip water savers out of showerheads and faucets every time they install them. Why would they do this?
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May 26, 2014 21:07
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