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Iceclaw posted:Where does that breaks Yosuke's character, though? He was from the get go the most determined to get the culprit, whatever the cost, and has a track record for acting under the spur of the moment as well, even when a few seconds of thinking would tell him it's a bad idea. It became more of a "spur of the moment" sort of stance when he started refusing to actually listen to the people trying to talk him down. The length of the scene and how determined he is throughout is what gets to me. Had the scene happened like this: *Yosuke mentions how they could murder Namatame *Someone mentions how that is evil *Yosuke takes the time to listen, doesn't choose to be evil then it wouldn't bug me nearly as much that he'd bring it up. But he campaigns for it, and it takes him getting shouted down to actually start to reconsider.
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May 17, 2014 02:52
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A Bystander posted:I dunno, I guess time spent with the group wasn't enough for her to really get to know them or some poo poo. It's the weirdest part of the scene for me and if anyone has a really good idea about it, I'd like to see it because, seriously what the hell. Doesn't seem super complicated Naoto may keep her emotions tightly buttoned but she's still just a kid and she still cares about Nanako and she more than anyone knows how likely he is to get off scott free. Just because she isn't visibly raging doesn't mean she's not mad as hell about Nanakos death.
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May 17, 2014 02:55
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It's an interesting scene. Yosuke, Naoto, and Kanji basically advocate doing exactly what Adachi did, push someone in the TV and let it do the work for them. I liked that bad ending more than the one where you cover for Adachi.
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May 17, 2014 02:55
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... okay, sorry for sounding aggressive, but how do you manage ignore the actual context of the scene there? Yosuke doesn't really listen because he's a scared kid that just saw a little kid he loved died, and knows it's partially his fault. The scene last for all of five minutes at best, during which everyone is hurt, scared, and stressed about being caught in the room of a suspect. Of course no one, especially a bunch of teenagers, is going to look at things rationally.
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May 17, 2014 02:57
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This just in most people aren't rational actors all of the time or even most of the time let alone in hyper emotionally charged scenarios.
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May 17, 2014 02:59
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My first time through the game I played from October to the scene in question and not only was I 100% on board with the possibly bad plan I was kinda shocked when I got the ending I did. You can argue the moral points all day but screw this dude killing all them people and choking out Nanako in heaven thinks he's gonna just walk. Have fun with the monsters, dirtbag! Plus there's the fact that as far as anyone knows at that point, Nametame tried to kill the majority of the people in the room, and succeeded on Nanako and at busting up Dojima. Later, when I saw the rest of the game, I made other decisions, but I can't argue with a character having the same reaction I did.
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May 17, 2014 02:59
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Captain Oblivious posted:Doesn't seem super complicated I got as much from the scene but it still feels weird. Like, she's only been around with the group for about a month or two at that point and she doesn't really come across as someone who'd get along with people that quickly. I mean, I could buy it, but it's kind of a hard sell. It's been a while since I've seen the whole scene played out without speeding through it and I fast-forwarded it this time, so my thoughts are probably dumb, though.
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May 17, 2014 03:02
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I think it's pretty obvious that it was gonna be a bad ending, considering the themes of the game. It sounded warning bells for me, anyway.
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May 17, 2014 03:03
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Iceclaw posted:... okay, sorry for sounding aggressive, but how do you manage ignore the actual context of the scene there? Yosuke doesn't really listen because he's a scared kid that just saw a little kid he loved died, and knows it's partially his fault. The scene last for all of five minutes at best, during which everyone is hurt, scared, and stressed about being caught in the room of a suspect. Of course no one, especially a bunch of teenagers, is going to look at things rationally. It is more than just refusing to listen though. OK, under stress, maybe hard-headedness in your ideals can make communication difficult, and I can understand that. Going beyond that, and definitively stating that "this is the only way, and you better have a good argument against it or I'm throwing him in" indicated to me a darker part of his psyche that wasn't just a symptom of stress.
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May 17, 2014 03:05
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It's not just stress, though, it's grief, and lot of it, both from Nanako's and Saki's deaths, and the guilt he feels about not being able to save either of them.
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May 17, 2014 03:09
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Teddie ate 5 topsicles! That's as many as 5 ones! And that's terrible! This is looking more classified than a SCP foundation page.
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May 17, 2014 03:11
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Again, UBERJUMPER DO NOT READ ANY OF THIS
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May 17, 2014 03:12
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Hellioning posted:Teddie ate 5 topsicles! That's as many as 5 ones! And that's terrible! Especially this one, holy poo poo
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May 17, 2014 03:13
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Manatee Cannon posted:I think it's pretty obvious that it was gonna be a bad ending, considering the themes of the game. It sounded warning bells for me, anyway. Definitely. At a meta level it's quite clear. The issue at hand is more characterization and the reasonableness thereof. The REAL problem with that scene is your dialogue options suck.
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May 17, 2014 03:13
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Plus you gotta think chronologically. They see Nanako flatline, have a 30 second chat with Adachi, go up two floors and down a hall, see Dojima get hauled off, then go in, like two paragraphs from Nametame, then Yosuke has his 5 star idea. That's what? 10 minutes? 5? I've been in a situation like that (except unlike Yosuke I did not have a person in front of me who was directly responsible) and trust me, you are not a person who is rational and having good ideas at that juncture. The fact that they come face to face with the dude who has made the last 6 months hell and do not just immediately commence to physically murder him is impressive. Basically, few juries would convict because of circumstances. Captain Oblivious posted:The REAL problem with that scene is your dialogue options suck. I thought that this, if intentional, was actually kinda meta-cool. You're trying to pull the plane out of an incredibly fast nosedive, it's hard to do.
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May 17, 2014 03:16
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projecthalaxy posted:I thought that this, if intentional, was actually kinda meta-cool. You're trying to pull the plane out of an incredibly fast nosedive, it's hard to do. Honestly that is a fair point I concede. Reading it as flustered stumbling is completely reasonable.
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May 17, 2014 03:23
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Except it's lovely from a gameplay perspective and obnoxious having to redo that scene every time you fail, so I don't care about the context.
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May 17, 2014 03:25
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Prozach posted:It is more than just refusing to listen though. OK, under stress, maybe hard-headedness in your ideals can make communication difficult, and I can understand that. Going beyond that, and definitively stating that "this is the only way, and you better have a good argument against it or I'm throwing him in" indicated to me a darker part of his psyche that wasn't just a symptom of stress. Yosuke is an emotional freight train at that point. His idea is decisive, vindictive, and immediately gratifying. The counter argument you make is a nebulous, "Something isn't right here." It isn't until you match his emotional level (by shouting, although I may be prescribing more power to the silent protagonist's words than were meant) that he listens and, ultimately, backs down.
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May 17, 2014 03:30
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If it's NG+, there should be a shortcut option or something like Punch Yosuke because, even though it takes like 5, 10 minutes tops with the fast-forward, that's still 5-10 minutes.
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May 17, 2014 03:30
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Wow Yosuke, you just got way too creepy. The whole bikini thing is just ugh.
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May 17, 2014 03:48
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UberJumper posted:Wow Yosuke, you just got way too creepy. The whole bikini thing is just ugh. Behold the dark side of anime. I regret to inform you that this is the tip of the creepy Japanese iceberg. There will be FAR worse later on.
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May 17, 2014 03:51
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UberJumper posted:Wow Yosuke, you just got way too creepy. The whole bikini thing is just ugh. So, you keep the goods under the futon?
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May 17, 2014 04:09
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To me the dumbest thing about that part towards the end is how long it takes anyone to ask Namatame what he thinks he is saving people from. I get that everyone is stressed out and concerned for Nanako but the guy keeps saying about how he saved some of the party members and is going to save Nanako, if one person just asked "what are you saving people from" instead of immediately assuming "well I guess he's crazy and saving = killing to him" he presumably would have mentioned the real killer and saved a whole lot of trouble.
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May 17, 2014 04:11
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Captain Oblivious posted:Behold the dark side of anime. I regret to inform you that this is the tip of the creepy Japanese iceberg. There will be FAR worse later on.  I did how laugh at the whole bike try and get girls phone numbers part. Poonerman posted:So, you keep the goods under the futon?  What?So Ai typically asks you to skip school, i asked her out and had the correct bravery before i even met Kanji. But she has never asked me to skip clases, talking to her she just asks me to skip classes with her some time. Did i miss something?
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May 17, 2014 04:12
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UberJumper posted:
Basically your first opportunity to start Ais link is outside your control. She will tell YOU when it's time to play hooky. It's nice because you get the first slink level without spending a timeslot then she behaves like a normal Slink from then on.
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May 17, 2014 04:14
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Using that spoiler talk as evidence against Yosuke is loving stupid. Saying "these actions and thoughts should not be condoned" is all well and good until you stop and put yourself in those characters' positions. That was a pretty crazy moment in general for the game, even I was a little up in arms. Moments like that don't lend themselves well to logical reasoning. It's kinda poop to hold that against Yosuke, since he wasn't even the only person flipping their poo poo. Can Yosuke be a dick sometimes? Sure, he's a douche to Kanji on occasion because he's freaked out by what he perceives Kanji to be. To me, that's his most damning moment. Even then, a lot of it can be chalked up to being a stupid high schooler. He's a very...energetic bro, for better or for worse. His shenanigans against the female cast members aren't cool, but considering each and every one of those shenanigans is just a setup for a killer punchline I'm willing to let it slide. His actions never go without comeuppance.
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May 17, 2014 04:26
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I wouldn't mind Yosuke's bullshit that much if it didn't mean Kanji and the MC get dragged into it too.
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May 17, 2014 04:29
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A Bystander posted:I wouldn't mind Yosuke's bullshit that much if it didn't mean Kanji and the MC get dragged into it too. That makes it even better. Poor Kanji is probably the toughest dude on the team, and yet he gets dragged along into stuff he would never dare do on his own. It's hilarious. I think y'all take some of these character interactions way too seriously.
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May 17, 2014 04:31
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Shinjobi posted:That makes it even better. Poor Kanji is probably the toughest dude on the team, and yet he gets dragged along into stuff he would never dare do on his own. It's hilarious. Kanji getting pulled into dumb Yosuke bullshit is half the fun of Yosuke AND Kanji.
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May 17, 2014 04:41
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Yeah... about Adachi... I am pretty sure he is the killer. I really hope i am wrong. Adachi leaves the building to get the papparazi, and Rise is apparently gone?  Teddie Can i score with you ladies someday...?I have a question, why is everyone obsessed with Rise? Isn't she just an actress? Or is this just some sort of japanese thing? UberJumper fucked around with this message at 04:50 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 04:42
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UberJumper posted:Wow Yosuke, you just got way too creepy. The whole bikini thing is just ugh. The campout is what justifies Chie hitting him in the beginning.
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May 17, 2014 04:43
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UberJumper posted:Yeah... about Adachi...  . Come back to the thread when it's time for NG+.quote:I have a question, why is everyone obsessed with Rise? Isn't she just an actress? Or is this just some sort of japanese thing?
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May 17, 2014 04:52
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UberJumper posted:Yeah... about Adachi... It's a Japanese thing. She's an idol. Sorta like Justin Bieber except with genders reversed, maybe?
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May 17, 2014 04:53
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That's idol as in icon you put on a pedestal and worship rather than idol to be emulated as a role model. That should put you in the right frame of mind for how bugfuck crazy the Japanese idol scene is. I'm not sure if K-Pop starlettes have more or less media scrutiny but it's absurd in both cases. I know that with K-Pop idols it can get as ridiculous as not being allowed to really have a boyfriend because you must be PURE AS THE DRIVEN SNOW. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 05:10 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 05:07
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Cake Attack posted:It's a Japanese thing. She's an idol. Sorta like Justin Bieber except with genders reversed, maybe? It's much, much more severe. Japanese idols have this strange kind of fan cult around them that forces them to essentially be the epitome of the perfect maiden or whatever the gently caress bullshit. It's really terrifying.
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May 17, 2014 05:56
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This and the fact I always thought her manager was being emotionally manipulative are why I don't much care for Rise's s-link.
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May 17, 2014 05:59
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projecthalaxy posted:I thought that this, if intentional, was actually kinda meta-cool. You're trying to pull the plane out of an incredibly fast nosedive, it's hard to do. Totally. Besides it not making for great gameplay, you have a gut feeling that something's not right, and you don't know exactly why yet, and you're trying to figure that out. Meanwhile, Yosuke (who by the way along with Kanji and Naoto assumes you're already on board because Nanako's basically family and doesn't understand, at least in the heat of the moment, why this doesn't seem like the only way to get justice to you) is constantly putting more and more pressure on you to make a decision, including outright calling you out on stalling. At this point, MC is so internally frustrated that he yells at Yosuke to "calm the hell down" so he can formulate his thoughts for a second. At this point, the "against" camp finally chimes in to help you, and everybody takes a breath. projecthalaxy posted:Plus you gotta think chronologically. They see Nanako flatline, have a 30 second chat with Adachi, go up two floors and down a hall, see Dojima get hauled off, then go in, like two paragraphs from Nametame, then Yosuke has his 5 star idea. That's what? 10 minutes? 5? I've been in a situation like that (except unlike Yosuke I did not have a person in front of me who was directly responsible) and trust me, you are not a person who is rational and having good ideas at that juncture. The fact that they come face to face with the dude who has made the last 6 months hell and do not just immediately commence to physically murder him is impressive. (Spoilered because although not in the game, it may give ideas to the plot) When George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin and ended up getting acquitted over the whole thing, I was pretty fuckin' mad about it. Was I angry enough to go shoot him myself? Of course not. Would I have been the least bit surprised if somebody did? Not really. Maybe the difference is Namatame didn't actually do it, but in the situation, when all signs point to "guilty and about to get away with it", I wouldn't be surprised about what anyone would do. Chie: "Dojima-san... was he really gonna...?" Kanji: "His only daughter's dead... nothing woulda surprised me."
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May 17, 2014 06:11
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About to kick the poo poo out of the final boss. Anything change w/r/t what carries over in NG+ or is it still the same as vanilla?
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May 17, 2014 06:16
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A Bystander posted:About to kick the poo poo out of the final boss. Anything change w/r/t what carries over in NG+ or is it still the same as vanilla? Daidara has his stock carry over now, and it probably goes without saying that you keep all your registered skill cards too.
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May 17, 2014 06:18
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I think money carries over too. Though I may be thinking of Persona 3.
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May 17, 2014 06:19
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