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I think you need a soul to become a demon. Something angels kind of lack.
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May 23, 2014 00:31
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I always wondered what happened to the meat suit's soul when the demon gets "cured". The lore all says they are locked away in their heads while the demon does whatever it wants, but if the demon is "cured", does it lose the ability to smoke out?
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May 23, 2014 00:51
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Darth Freddy posted:I think you need a soul to become a demon. Something angels kind of lack. Yeah but Cas is a meat suit, can't Dean go all black smoke and inhabit Cas?
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May 23, 2014 01:19
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GreenNight posted:Yeah but Cas is a meat suit, can't Dean go all black smoke and inhabit Cas?
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May 23, 2014 01:34
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Yaos posted:Crowley did this with Sam, but he could not control the body. Wasn't there some comment from a previous Crowley episode, where his son didn't recognize him? The actual Crowley, the man before he became a demon, died and wound up in Hell...where he eventually turned into a Crossroads Demon. Doesn't that imply that Crowley's original body (which was a pile of bones) no longer exists, and Mark Sheppard as Crowley is some random other body? Of course, the ethics of inhabited bodies has totally gone away. Demons get stabbed to death instantly, and now so do angels, so whoever the host was doesn't seem to matter at all. Castiel has been inside Novak for *years* at this point, and he gives no fucks about the bodies' original owner. Dean is already a rare case in that his soul turned into a demon, and his actual body still exists. I'd assume most demons come from corrupting souls of the already-dead, whose bodies have rotted away long before. Though, I guess Dean may be able to smoke out of his body, which will just be empty until he gets back?
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May 23, 2014 01:56
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With a literal army of angels now freed up to do whatever, couldn't/shouldn't Sam have just prayed to Cas or any one of them to revive Dean?
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May 23, 2014 02:35
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Xealot posted:Of course, the ethics of inhabited bodies has totally gone away. Demons get stabbed to death instantly, and now so do angels, so whoever the host was doesn't seem to matter at all. Castiel has been inside Novak for *years* at this point, and he gives no fucks about the bodies' original owner. Angel hosts are mostly catatonic when the angel is away. Angels burn out their hosts somehow, with more powerful angels leaving less functional hosts. (Sam was probably okay after Gladriel because he was supposed to be a very powerful host capable of containing one of the most powerful archangels.) This is seen as okay, because angels only possess people who agree to it.
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May 23, 2014 04:15
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Xealot posted:Wasn't there some comment from a previous Crowley episode, where his son didn't recognize him? The actual Crowley, the man before he became a demon, died and wound up in Hell...where he eventually turned into a Crossroads Demon. Doesn't that imply that Crowley's original body (which was a pile of bones) no longer exists, and Mark Sheppard as Crowley is some random other body? They dealt with this. Novak was freed, but was fatally wounded by demons, and Castiel was going to take his daughter as a new host, so Novak begged Castiel to take him instead permanently. Looking back, Castiel did a lot of hosed up poo poo in S4/5 while serving heaven. It wasn't until he caught on to the higher-ups plan to let the Apocalypse happen that he sided with humans. pentyne fucked around with this message at 05:14 on May 23, 2014 |
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May 23, 2014 05:09
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This will be interesting. Mark Sheppard was promoted to series regular: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/supernaturals-mark-sheppard-season-10-706706
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May 23, 2014 18:24
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Xealot posted:Doesn't that imply that Crowley's original body (which was a pile of bones) no longer exists, and Mark Sheppard as Crowley is some random other body? When they first meet Crowley back in S5 he mentions that his meatsuit is/was a literary agent from New York. I'm assuming the original guy is long dead, since Crowley's abandoned his body since then and the other guy never woke up. I think what they were trying to show this season, given Abaddon's demons upgrading to commando dudes in 9.02, was that if the body sustained enough damage while possessed then the original host would die. They noted that some of the bodies those demons left behind had been technically dead for years. I think the writers have also confirmed a few times now that Jimmy Novak's been dead for some time. Even if he didn't die right after Cas repossessed him, I think it's a safe bet that he checked out during one of the times Cas exploded. First Bass posted:With a literal army of angels now freed up to do whatever, couldn't/shouldn't Sam have just prayed to Cas or any one of them to revive Dean? They don't have their wings back so it would still take them a while to get there, and I don't think it would do anything anyways since Crowley noted that Dean wasn't technically dead. He was more like...in a demon cocoon phase. Dean's gonna be a weird case, I think, like Anna was for angels. I think it's safe to say he'll have most of the powers of a Knight of Hell, though.
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May 23, 2014 18:26
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Angela Christine posted:Angel hosts are mostly catatonic when the angel is away. Angels burn out their hosts somehow, with more powerful angels leaving less functional hosts. (Sam was probably okay after Gladriel because he was supposed to be a very powerful host capable of containing one of the most powerful archangels.) I thought angels only burned out hosts when they weren't "appropriate" or something like that. I swear I remember one of the older episodes covering that, almost like there were bloodlines that could handle angel possession, with some like the Winchesters able to handle more powerful angels.
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May 23, 2014 18:32
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GreenNight posted:This will be interesting. This is the best news.
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May 23, 2014 18:36
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GreenNight posted:This will be interesting. Great news, and really what I was hoping they'd do. More Crowley is a good thing.
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May 23, 2014 18:38
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Crowley & Cas, the buddy cop show. Angels? Demons? We always get our man.
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May 23, 2014 18:44
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With Dean becoming a demon, I can't help but find how ironic is this promo pic now   Funny how things turned out on just three seasons.
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May 23, 2014 18:48
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:With Dean becoming a demon, I can't help but find how ironic is this promo pic now The photoshop in that is just....obscene. Jared Padalecki looks like he represents the lollipop guild. How the hell do you turn 6'4"+ into midget? On a completely unrelated note, the fan designed official swag has dropped here. This particular design drives me crazy because the formatting makes it look like "SAVING PEOPLE, the family business, HUNTING THINGS"
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May 23, 2014 19:00
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seaborgium posted:I thought angels only burned out hosts when they weren't "appropriate" or something like that. I swear I remember one of the older episodes covering that, almost like there were bloodlines that could handle angel possession, with some like the Winchesters able to handle more powerful angels. Lucifer needed a Winchester. His regular body Mark Pellegrino was close, but still not enough which is why he looked as sickly as he did. I think it's only about the body though. The soul still gets burned out.
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May 23, 2014 19:41
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pentyne posted:They dealt with this. Novak was freed, but was fatally wounded by demons, and Castiel was going to take his daughter as a new host, so Novak begged Castiel to take him instead permanently. Oh, right. I forgot this episode entirely. I hope God returns in this next season. "Sorry, guys, went out for some smokes and the line was...wait, what the gently caress? What the gently caress, guys!?! Holy poo poo!!! WHAT DID YOU DO?!?"
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May 23, 2014 19:47
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Regarding bodies being hosts to demons and angels, I believe it was in season one or two where they covered what happens to the demon bodies with Meg. And Raphael's host was a crippled dude in a hospital because of how the angel being in his body affected him, and I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be his "true" host. But I think the rules were different between regular angels and Archangels, because Jimmy was totally fine when Cass left him.
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May 23, 2014 20:25
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I think Raphael just didn't give half a gently caress about harming some human meat suit. Cas and Michael and even to an extent Lucifer all too care not to damage their hosts when they were in there. Cas mentioned something about the reason that guy was as hosed as he was, was due to how powerful an archangel is. Yet, Michael popped into Daddy Winchester for a bit and didn't leave him a blubbering mess. Raph basically landed in that dude, blew up some demons, and went poof and left that guy laying in his own spittle.
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May 23, 2014 22:23
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Michael even promised Dean to leave him intact after finishing with Lucifer.
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May 23, 2014 22:36
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So I guess the reasoning would be that since they're archangels, they all do damage to their hosts, but they have the ability to keep their hosts healthy after leaving the body, which is why John wasn't affected by Michael. Raphael's just a monstrous prick, so even though it only takes a snap of his fingers, he'd rather leave his a host a crippled mess.
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May 23, 2014 22:44
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WROMG THREAD
der juicen fucked around with this message at 04:15 on May 24, 2014 |
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May 24, 2014 03:47
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Officer Farva posted:So I guess the reasoning would be that since they're archangels, they all do damage to their hosts, but they have the ability to keep their hosts healthy after leaving the body, which is why John wasn't affected by Michael. Raphael's just a monstrous prick, so even though it only takes a snap of his fingers, he'd rather leave his a host a crippled mess. It makes you think about Gabriel's vessel isn't it? He's been riding that meat suit for a few millenia at least since the pagans recognized it.
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May 24, 2014 04:05
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I think in some cases, a meatsuit sort of transcends what it was. With Cas, Crowley, and probably Gabriel their bodies have been around a long time or destroyed and recreated. It definitely happened to Cas and I'm pretty sure Crowley has been rebuilt once or twice. And when he's vacated his meatsuit it just sits there.
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May 24, 2014 04:32
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Astroman posted:I think in some cases, a meatsuit sort of transcends what it was. With Cas, Crowley, and probably Gabriel their bodies have been around a long time or destroyed and recreated. It definitely happened to Cas and I'm pretty sure Crowley has been rebuilt once or twice. And when he's vacated his meatsuit it just sits there. Castiel was resurrected by God after Lucifer blew him up. At this point it's less of a meatsuit and more who he really is.
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May 24, 2014 05:08
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pentyne posted:Castiel was resurrected by God after Lucifer blew him up. At this point it's less of a meatsuit and more who he really is. And then he got blown up again by the Leviathans, and then his Grace got stolen so he was transformed into a human.
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May 24, 2014 05:10
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computer parts posted:And then he got blown up again by the Leviathans, and then his Grace got stolen so he was transformed into a human. Right, so his human form is now more or less part of his real "identity". Really hope none of Novak's family ever run into him again. edit: Although that would make a great season 10 b-plot, now that I think about it. Supernatural has never address what happens to the people left behind when demons/angels take a meatsuit. It must be especially bad for the ones who have demons exorcised, because they're still going to jail for all the horrific things the demons did. pentyne fucked around with this message at 05:34 on May 24, 2014 |
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May 24, 2014 05:32
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computer parts posted:And then he got blown up again by the Leviathans, and then his Grace got stolen so he was transformed into a human. He turned human back on season 5 too, guess that was when Jimmy went kaput.
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May 24, 2014 05:33
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pentyne posted:Right, so his human form is now more or less part of his real "identity". Really hope none of Novak's family ever run into him again. There was the season 7 episode about the guy who'd been possessed and wanted to get the demon back.
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May 24, 2014 07:26
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So!. I want D duck up in this/
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May 24, 2014 11:42
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I believe it is implied that the meatsuit is the power source on earth, so presumably, the right human can become as strong as any angel/demon with the proper knowledge. It also means that any damage taken is real to the host, even if it does nothing to angels/demon. Physical damage can be healed if you expend the soul's power through My interpretation is that Dean is outside of Death now, an existence God made personally. God might not let him go until it's god's turn too. Dean needs Lassiter to trade again, or maybe kill god and end the show! Dean didn't make a deal with the devil like Cain through, I think he can still go to Heaven. I did not get the point of this season really, what was booger always blabbing on and on about? Femur fucked around with this message at 22:48 on May 24, 2014 |
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May 24, 2014 21:00
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Since Revolution was cancelled is Edlund going to come back?
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May 24, 2014 21:36
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Femur posted:I did not get the point of this season really, what was booger always blabbing on and on about? The entire season has basically been about turning Dean into a demon. That's why every single positive "helpful" plot thing that was written into the show, such as Cas's angel army, was just as quickly written out in a really lame way. It's also why Abaddon was barely doing anything of consequence and was ultimately snuffed out like nothing. She was just the McGuffin for dean to need the first blade. It's also why the uncharacteristic Crowley buddy comedy was so prevalent in the show, to soften the whole "demons should always be shanked" thing. This explains why the whole Metatron/closed heaven/angels thing was such a wet fart like it was a background plot. I mean at least twice they touched upon the no souls of the dead getting into heaven thing. In previous seasons with better writers that would have been a big thing, but it's not even addressed in this. The angels don't care, the main guys don't care, and because it's not related to Dean turning into a demon, the writers don't care, which is why it's never picked up. It's an interesting place to take the show and if it does go down the route of Sam leading Heaven (maybe he completes the trials, dies and becomes an angel) and Dean leading Hell it would be a nice role reversal on the whole Sam=Lucifer, Dean=Michael thing. I think it could have been done a lot better though.
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May 24, 2014 23:13
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Honestly there hasn't really been a good angel plot since they released Lucifer at the end of Season 4. I agree that the demon subplot could've been better though. The problem with the angels is that they're both not really that interesting as villains (I mean even Leviathans had the whole "let's farm humans" thing) unless they're acting like bureaucratic assholes and you can only do bureaucratic assholes so many times. It works for Crowley because he's not opposed to murdering and doublecrossing dudes who get in his way (and he's charming as all hell). computer parts fucked around with this message at 01:36 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 01:31
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I just don't care for the angels because, in the end, they're really not that different from demons at all.
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May 25, 2014 05:56
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I think Demon Dean has potential to be something other than a retread of other angsty corruption arcs. Demons don't tend to be angsty, after all. It kinda seems that one of the defining elements of demons is the lack of any kind of regret or guilt or remorse - i.e., angst. The show very well could make Demon Dean just not even give a poo poo and be a totally fun-loving, evil bastard. Of course Sam would be all angsty but Dean could be fun. ...I don't really expect it to happen, but I mean, it could.
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May 25, 2014 07:15
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Officer Farva posted:I just don't care for the angels because, in the end, they're really not that different from demons at all. Well, it kinda fits in with the whole "Cat's in the cradle" theme this show has going. It's hard to appreciate angels, as they have been a major disappointment since Cas's completely awesome introduction. It turns out they were very over hyped, their weapons easily turned against them. Maybe that was on purpose, but there is no need to draw their relevance out. This might be hard through as Demons are still needed. Plus Crowley and Dean is a better dynamic than Dean and Cas imho. Dean somehow turned into the guy you go to if you want torture, so kudos to the writer for planting those seeds if they go with the hunting "monsters" turns you into one thing, through Dean is of questionable morality since his introduction really. Femur fucked around with this message at 08:22 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 08:18
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The thing with Dean is, though, on some level his macho-man string 'em high  bravado is a coping mechanism, it's how he deals with wading waist-high through the gore and grief and dead friends of a hunter's life. Sure he's hardened by it, especially compared to hug-box Sam and his therapy dogs, but when something truly pushes him to the edge of the abyss (like say, being dragged to Hell or turned into a vampire or afflicted with unquenchable murderlust) Dean still clings to his humanity. He might be a terribly broken person after everything he's been through, but he still wants to be a person -- "This is turning me into something I do not want to become."There's gonna be hella angst to tap from Demon Dean.
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May 25, 2014 14:49
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Honestly, I think keeping Crowley in charge of Hell is for the best. He wants to maintain the status quo. Yes he's evil as gently caress and kind of a douche, but he's not going to start trying to gently caress with the proper order of things or enact global domination plans.
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May 25, 2014 19:10
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