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gary oldmans diary posted:good citations this definitely proves your points against borrow and carry Quit changing the goal posts. I showed you why the current curriculum is failing. I showed you that reform math didn't hurt people. Now you want me to show why particular algorithms are bad. No, we are going to improve it all. I even said we can teach borrow and carry, and I don't mind having plenty of algorithms. You are saying we should go back to just teaching math like it is 1996. So what's next?
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May 26, 2014 21:25
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Rhonyn Peacemaker posted:I want to be clear here. You are actually arguing against Common Core? Gulzin posted:Quit changing the goal posts. maybe you should reach the original goal post at least gary oldmans diary fucked around with this message at 21:29 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 21:26
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shut the gently caress up already you retard post a single link that supports ur stupid bullshit or get out
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May 26, 2014 21:28
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babypolis posted:shut the gently caress up already you retard
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May 26, 2014 21:29
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babypolis posted:shut the gently caress up already you retard his arguments on the specific examples are backed by "these groups support common core"
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May 26, 2014 21:30
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gary oldmans diary posted:i am arguing against a very narrow subset of common core from the second example in this thread and the policy of disregarding basic mathematical proficiency and in fact replacing teaching techniques that make that proficiency attainable in favor of calculators I'm sure that you would have argued against principals that would have assisted students in using the Abacus, the Slide Rule, and now the calculator. You are literally what is holding back this country as the rest of the world consistently advances in mathematics. You are also arguing in bad faith.  you insufferable shitheel.
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May 26, 2014 21:30
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Moridin920 posted:See what I mean? Whoa dude chill out all I said was that low grade teachers should be teaching because they want to teach. I never said they shouldn't get paid more.
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May 26, 2014 21:31
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CommonTerry posted:Whoa dude chill out all I said was that low grade teachers should be teaching because they want to teach. I never said they shouldn't get paid more. It also depends on where they teach. In Washington state, to teach even grade level, you need a bachelors, then you also need your credential, then you also need an endorsement specifically in elementary school education with field work. In addition, you have to pass a couple of state tests. Its loving hard core.
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May 26, 2014 21:33
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Rhonyn Peacemaker posted:I'm sure that you would have argued against principals that would have assisted students in using the Abacus, the Slide Rule, and now the calculator. basic addition and subtraction
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May 26, 2014 21:33
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whatever happened to zoombinis?
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May 26, 2014 21:33
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im the basic mathematical proficiency. i can mean anything you want me to
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May 26, 2014 21:34
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gary oldmans diary posted:while mastery of a tool enables frenetic speed while it is available he is advocating policies that are designed to require calculators for basic math He is advocating policies that teach people to use mental math. What is being described is how I have done math since forever. I have always scored above my peers at math because they never bothered to do mental math. Try again.
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May 26, 2014 21:34
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Rhonyn Peacemaker posted:He is advocating policies that teach people to use mental math. What is being described is how I have done math since forever. I have always scored above my peers at math because they never bothered to do mental math. changing a curriculum is not as subtle as your favored internalized approach to math we are giving these kids retard work that could be entirely mitigated by proper teaching of a simple concept
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May 26, 2014 21:38
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gary oldmans diary posted:he hasnt you dolt yeah except for all the links he psoted about educators and math people saying this poo poo is good as opposed to you who doesnt know gently caress about the subject except ur own personal experience which is completely meaningless
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May 26, 2014 21:40
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babypolis posted:yeah except for all the links he psoted about educators and math people saying this poo poo is good
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May 26, 2014 21:41
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gary oldmans diary posted:i would invite you to the appealing idea of spending a year of grade school proving that was your technique for mental math on paper, long form Children need to understand the concept so they can perform it rapidly later. They can learn these concepts rapidly at a young age. I don't think you are an educator, or this wouldn't be a question for you. There is no reason for this thread to be this long with dozens of people arguing with just you. Final word: Common Core will happen, it is a superior way to perform math, which I know from personal experience, and our youth need it. If you are against it, its because you are an ignorant curmudgeon who has literally no experience in educating youth or developing educational tools. Next time, argue a topic you are actually familiar with. People might believe you.
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May 26, 2014 21:42
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Rhonyn Peacemaker posted:Children need to understand the concept so they can perform it rapidly later. They can learn these concepts rapidly at a young age. I don't think you are an educator, or this wouldn't be a question for you. gently caress you gay oldman gently caress you for making me agree with rhonyn
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May 26, 2014 21:44
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Rhonyn Peacemaker posted:Children need to understand the concept so they can perform it rapidly later. They can learn these concepts rapidly at a young age. I don't think you are an educator, or this wouldn't be a question for you. People who think common core math is good are faggots your welcome in advance
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May 26, 2014 21:44
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Rhonyn Peacemaker posted:It also depends on where they teach. In Washington state, to teach even grade level, you need a bachelors, then you also need your credential, then you also need an endorsement specifically in elementary school education with field work. In addition, you have to pass a couple of state tests. yeah dude I know I was thinking about teaching there
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May 26, 2014 21:45
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why the gently caress can't you just give a lecture explaining the theory behind stuff and derive the algorithm for the class then have them memorize it? this is how literally every math class i have ever taken works apparently you need to make kids write a paragraph every time they multiply two numbers and leave them unable to loving add and subtract without a calculator in order for them to learn, for some reason. maybe i'm some sort of genius superman because i could add, subtract, multiply and divide arbitrary base 10 numbers by the time i left elementary school
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May 26, 2014 21:45
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icantfindaname posted:why the gently caress can't you just give a lecture explaining the theory behind stuff and derive the algorithm for the class then have them memorize it? because children are loving retarded srsly any of you talking about explaining this poo poo to children ever interacted with 3rd graders? second grade they are barely smart enough to understand crap like "underline the correct answer" for fucks fsake im sure your college level classes are totally comparable to grade school tho babypolis fucked around with this message at 21:48 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 21:46
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babypolis posted:because children are loving retarded OK so how will making them write a paragraph every time they multiply two numbers and leaving them unable to add and subtract without a calculator make this better? you'd think this would be a key point, but it's mysteriously never elaborated on. i don't believe kids will learn the properties of the base 10 number system by osmosis or whatever you think is going to happen when you make them memorize your much more tedious, much less useful algorithm instead of the general purpose algorithm. if the kids are too stupid to learn from a class lecture why do you think they'll just sort of figure it out if forced to write down huge strings of numbers every time they calculate a tip?
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May 26, 2014 21:49
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babypolis posted:im sure your college level classes are totally comparable to grade school tho that is how my grade school classes worked too? if the classroom is filled with hungry parentless hooligans they're not going to learn from an even more tedious, longer algorithm. like you keep saying how loving dumb they are but in that case why do you think this would work better?
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May 26, 2014 21:51
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Rhonyn Peacemaker posted:Children need to understand the concept so they can perform it rapidly later. you can teach the concept and have it understood either way it is generally regarded as ideal that they understand the concept before starting the work this version of addition and subtraction literally has all the same steps, but rearranged with a separation of going up the digit places and then back down it teaches nothing that isnt inherently obvious from the classical process but adds numerous terminology and aspects of testing to what is something intrinsically basic and any kid can be taught to do regardless of their internal processes
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May 26, 2014 21:52
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icantfindaname posted:OK so how will making them write a paragraph every time they multiply two numbers and leaving them unable to add and subtract without a calculator make this better? The sole mathematician who was on the original common core standards review board said the math was poo poo and wouldn't put his name anywhere close to it. It simply set sets students back and people who think its good were never good at math in the first place. Its just I cant do it so im going to change it
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May 26, 2014 21:53
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Slurin posted:The sole mathematician who was on the original common core standards review board said the math was poo poo and wouldn't put his name anywhere close to it. It simply set sets students back and people who think its good were never good at math in the first place. Its just I cant do it so im going to change it Cite me this. I have listed plenty of mathematicians (aside from me) who are for this.
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May 26, 2014 21:55
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Slurin posted:The sole mathematician who was on the original common core standards review board said the math was poo poo and wouldn't put his name anywhere close to it. i have no doubt that the whole of common core will largely be an improvement over what were currently working with in the states but i greatly doubt those who see what is obviously a concept effective as an initial teaching tool and seek to implement it as the workload itself theres an incoherence between good idea and implementation there
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May 26, 2014 21:57
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Gulzin posted:Cite me this. I have listed plenty of mathematicians (aside from me) who are for this. James milgram just look it up, not too hard E: posting from phone name typo
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May 26, 2014 22:00
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icantfindaname posted:OK so how will making them write a paragraph every time they multiply two numbers and leaving them unable to add and subtract without a calculator make this better? i dunno, pedadogy and teaching is really hard and thats why i stopped. im not an educator and dont know how to solve these problems so i leave it to smarter ppl who know what they are doing everyone here criticizing cc is doing so from their own personal experience of old math working for them instead of making any real arguments
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May 26, 2014 22:02
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Slurin posted:James milgram just look it up, not too hard Even he said that Common Core is better than 90% of state standards (and his concern was 7th grade plus math). I see that he is not fond of it, but he is even more appalled by the current standards (even the 1990's ones). Cite on the quote of him saying they are better than 90% of state standards: ftp://math.stanford.edu/pub/papers/milgram/ZimbaMilgramStotskyFinal.pdf Again, I did not ever say Common Core would fix everything. I only said it was a step in the right direction.
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May 26, 2014 22:04
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So why haven't we just made kids watch khanacademy videos all day yet Throw an erector set at them
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May 26, 2014 22:05
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when kids grow up they're gonna have a better understanding of math and take our jobs from us. what can we do about this?
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May 26, 2014 22:05
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Rhonyn Peacemaker posted:Final word: Well, it appears to be an easier way to teach basic math concepts to people who have trouble comprehending the borrow and carry algorithms and how they relate to actual quantities and not just symbols on a page and really hate subtraction in all its forms. So it is "superior" by the metric that more people may be able to follow it, with the caveat that it is slower and more tedious to do in your head, and less efficient on paper.
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May 26, 2014 22:06
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Gulzin posted:Even he said that Common Core is better than 90% of state standards (and his concern was 7th grade plus math). I see that he is not fond of it, but he is even more appalled by the current standards (even the 1990's ones). No, wrong. The right direction is not towards a confusing less effective way of solving simple problems.
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May 26, 2014 22:14
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Slurin posted:No, wrong. The right direction is not towards a confusing less effective way of solving simple problems. Gulzin posted:Common Core isn't just some bullshit thing someone threw together. They even say on their website that it is based on recommendations from the National Center for Educational Statistics. Here is a Research Article that supports Common Core. Tell me more. Final word for me too, as we are just rehashing arguments from pages ago. This is going to happen, and I am happy about it. Just because you don't understand why these methods are better doesn't make them wrong. Edit: I bolded that for you Slurin. Keep telling us how this is bad when research says otherwise. Gulzin fucked around with this message at 22:23 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 22:16
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thelightguy posted:So it is "superior" by the metric that more people may be able to follow it, with the caveat that it is slower and more tedious to do in your head, and less efficient on paper. efficiency and speed are meaningless nowadays, and its actually less tedious to do in your head
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May 26, 2014 22:18
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Gulzin posted:Tell me more. What's wrong with you?
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May 26, 2014 22:18
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I remember when i was a kid in kindergarten hating myself because i could feel my mind automatically simplifying everything i was learning. maybe If I had this style taught to me I wouldn't still struggle thinking of the alphabet out of order. Hope this helps my bright nephew.
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May 26, 2014 22:19
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"hmm it seems that children are lagging in math and science" "well this here study says that test scores are correlated to household income" "that is interesting, let's completely gently caress up the concept of arithmetic that has been taught for 3000 years because giving money to poors is communism"
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May 26, 2014 22:20
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Slurin posted:What's wrong with you?
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May 26, 2014 22:30
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