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Drifter posted:fanciful speculation
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Jun 1, 2014 17:19
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It's also what goes one when they decide where to have lunch
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Jun 1, 2014 17:32
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FRINGE posted:That is frequently the literal root of a conspiracy.
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Jun 1, 2014 17:33
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Agean90 posted:It's also what goes one when they decide where to have lunch
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Jun 1, 2014 17:42
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Anyone who is amused by this should read the works of C. Northcote Parkinson, because he summed this up the better part of a century ago.
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Jun 3, 2014 03:43
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prometheus12345 posted:I think First Fires is the government district and it could be called first fires because there the revolution began.
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Jun 3, 2014 03:52
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2house2fly posted:Alpha Protocol is unpolished certainly, but calling it "very buggy" is just plain not accurate. AP was a good game, but calling it 'very buggy' is pretty accurate. As in, fall out of the level bugs resulting in a forced restart back at the mansion kind of bugs, or failure to fire script events that lead to engine slowdown and eventually lockup/CTD bugs. KOTOR2 had a missing level load line near the end that made my friend have to resort to console warps, and New Vegas incorrectly saved files on Steam when it came out, resulting in you having to swap your main save/backup save or lose hours and hours of progress. edit - I've also had to rescue NPC's from the bottom of the level in New Vegas. Or wherever they go. NPC heaven?
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Jun 3, 2014 04:20
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Wow, which version were you on? I've never seen any of those bugs in double-digit playthroughs of AP on PS3.
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Jun 3, 2014 04:49
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I remember when the game came out, watching videos on Destructoid of how frankly bizarre the stealth gameplay looked. I hadn't caught on at the time that Jim Sterling is a bit of a poo poo, so I took his word for it that the game was awful. After lots of positive reviews on this forum, though, I gave it a shot. I played the PC version years after release and never had any glitches I could recall, and really quite enjoyed myself. The only problem for me is that I'm a bit of a shotgun enthusiast and in order to get them all I have to kill one of the characters I like most.
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Jun 3, 2014 05:04
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GetWellGamers posted:Wow, which version were you on? I've never seen any of those bugs in double-digit playthroughs of AP on PS3. PC for all of them. They patched the one out of level bug for AP for their first patch.
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Jun 3, 2014 06:01
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Mymla posted:I don't remember KOTOR 2 being buggy. Its problem was that it was secretly Cut Content II: The Cut Lords. There's been plenty of games with more cut content than KotOR2 though. It's just that people don't make any fuss about it because they did a better job disguising/hiding away the content that ended up on the cutting room floor. Remember Fable by Peter Molyneux? All of those features he said would be in the game? Cut content. Black & White? Cut content. Hell, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 both have a ton of cut content we've never been privileged to. It's kind of unfair of people to give KotOR2 this reputation for being huge on cut content when in all respects compared to other games it came out. At all, I mean. So many game projects have been completely cancelled because they had to cut, cut, cut away and eventually ended up having a lesser game at the end that they couldn't sell in good conscience.
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Jun 3, 2014 08:20
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I love KOTOR2 more than anyone except maybe Scorchy, but when people say 'cut content' they mean the game literally had no ending, unlike every other game you mentioned. Not really Obsidian's fault with Lucasarts fuckery, and the restoration patch puts most of it back in (with a fair helping of really lovely added combat sequences  ) but let's not be willfully dense here.
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Jun 3, 2014 08:25
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Mordaedil posted:There's been plenty of games with more cut content than KotOR2 though. It's just that people don't make any fuss about it because they did a better job disguising/hiding away the content that ended up on the cutting room floor.
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Jun 3, 2014 08:27
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Wolfsheim posted:I love KOTOR2 more than anyone except maybe Scorchy, but when people say 'cut content' they mean the game literally had no ending, unlike every other game you mentioned. Not really Obsidian's fault with Lucasarts fuckery, and the restoration patch puts most of it back in (with a fair helping of really lovely added combat sequences Oh yeah, I won't deny it's not a pretty package, but it's kind of a curse with game development whenever you make something and have to take something out, there is suddenly a task to make the cut as clean as possible. KotOR2 has the absolutely most messy cutting out in the industry history, with loose threads everywhere, major points of the main plot still hanging and as you said, a missing ending. But I am convinced that if you worked internally at Obsidian, you'd be more happy with the content that was so cleanly cut, so miniscule that people have never missed it, because there is no trace left of it. It could be a missing reference to the first game, a character from another Star Wars related IP that makes a cameo, but was cut later and there is no trace because his inclusion was so easy to remove that after the game released people were just none the wiser to it. My point is that plenty of bigger and more marketed games have cut more content than KotOR2 could ever hope to with its limited development time. The difference being they were also given time to clean up their cuts and make it so as if it was never there to begin with. Again though, just touching the surface of what I can imagine the scope of those games started with. Unless you can get David Gaider himself to say "nope, no cut content that the community hasn't put back in", I'm going to live with the notion that all games have ghosts of what could have been and us being none the wiser might be a good thing. But what do I know, maybe that is what these guys did to dig these characters out.
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Jun 3, 2014 11:31
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Mordaedil posted:Remember Fable by Peter Molyneux? All of those features he said would be in the game? Cut content. Black & White? Cut content. Hell, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 both have a ton of cut content we've never been privileged to. If Peter Molyneux is famous for anything it's over-promising and under-delivering, but there's also a big difference between cutting systems/features and content. To be fair, if KotOR2 came out today they would have released the cut poo poo as DLC and everyone would still be whining about that instead. The ending was, obviously, lackluster, but I remember really liking the game.
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Jun 3, 2014 11:55
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Wallet posted:but there's also a big difference between cutting systems/features and content. I don't really think so. Cutting one or the other is made only to meet project budgets for what there is time and money for. Cutting a system, cutting a feature and cutting content all are done with the same intention; prevent the project from bloating and causing delays and higher expenses.
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Jun 3, 2014 12:08
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Mordaedil posted:I don't really think so. Cutting one or the other is made only to meet project budgets for what there is time and money for. Cutting a system, cutting a feature and cutting content all are done with the same intention; prevent the project from bloating and causing delays and higher expenses. From a development perspective, sure, they're all done for the same reasons, but I mean that as a player they are very different. If some RPG cuts a planned crafting system, anyone who didn't closely follow the game's development is unlikely to even notice. It seems easier to cleanly remove features than it is to cleanly remove significant chunks of content.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:58
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Wallet posted:From a development perspective, sure, they're all done for the same reasons, but I mean that as a player they are very different. If some RPG cuts a planned crafting system, anyone who didn't closely follow the game's development is unlikely to even notice. It seems easier to cleanly remove features than it is to cleanly remove significant chunks of content. A player isn't likely to notice anything missing from a game, if it is given enough time in QA, regardless of system or content. But I can promise you, both can leave traces for people to find if they go into game code and mess around. I certain you've played a lot of games where significant parts of the game have been cut, regardless of whether they were systems or content. Some you noticed, others you maybe chalked up to your imagination. Ever played a game with a lot of junk items that seem to have no significant use other than to sell them for money to use in a store? It was probably going to be part of a more elaborate crafting system. If a game does a timeskip, pay attention to the dates and you could determine that something happened between the loading screens that was cut. I don't think there exists a single game that was ever made to the original scope it set out to be. Or if it exists, I am not sure what they were doing. If you planned your project really well, even for normal software, there's always some extra time you could have put in for that extra thing. Cutting down is just the reasonable thing to do, otherwise you just get paid to twiddle your thumbs. That isn't exactly productive.
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Jun 3, 2014 16:19
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I guarantee you if rope kid and crew cut out those bitchin' rad hats they have been showing off for the past year or so this thread would notice and be up in arms. Up in arms, I say.
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Jun 3, 2014 16:27
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I would hardly call some of the KOTOR2 cuts clean. The game actually hypes you up quite a bit on the idea of HK-47 tracking down the HK-50 factory, and everything that spawns from that is left in the plot somewhat randomly (like the ending scene of G0-T0 cornering the little remote droid that just randomly cuts away, with neither ever seen or referenced again). Again, they did the best with what they had, but goddamn if it wasn't straight up obvious that they ran out of time on some major poo poo.
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Jun 3, 2014 16:55
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The HK-50 factory was the only cut I felt was noticeable, personally. That one I did find disappointing. But then I'm one of those weird sorts who wasn't even overly fussed by the ending. 
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Jun 3, 2014 16:58
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I don't think anyone here called KOTOR2's cuts clean, anyway.
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Jun 3, 2014 17:00
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Wolfsheim posted:I would hardly call some of the KOTOR2 cuts clean. 's what I've been saying all along. Lots of games have cut content, KotOR2 just might be the worst one to disguise their cut content.
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Jun 3, 2014 17:07
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That Hk-47 bit was a 50/50 chance of being in the game. I believe I read somewhere that if Obsidian had 5-6 more hours the dev assigned to that plotline could have had it read to go for the game. When statements like that are thrown around you can really see how hosed up a situation LucasArts made for the game.
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Jun 3, 2014 19:49
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Wolfsheim posted:I would hardly call some of the KOTOR2 cuts clean. The game actually hypes you up quite a bit on the idea of HK-47 tracking down the HK-50 factory, and everything that spawns from that is left in the plot somewhat randomly (like the ending scene of G0-T0 cornering the little remote droid that just randomly cuts away, with neither ever seen or referenced again).
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Jun 3, 2014 21:08
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Wallet posted:If Peter Molyneux is famous for anything it's over-promising and under-delivering, but there's also a big difference between cutting systems/features and content. Actually, Obsidian wanted to patch the content in, but Lucas Arts wouldn't let them. So you aren't far off with the DLC bit.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:23
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YouTuber posted:That Hk-47 bit was a 50/50 chance of being in the game. I believe I read somewhere that if Obsidian had 5-6 more hours the dev assigned to that plotline could have had it read to go for the game. When statements like that are thrown around you can really see how hosed up a situation LucasArts made for the game. I went to Nar Shadaar last on my first run, every other run I went there first. Also I didn't pay attention to my light sabre components and wound up looting light sabres instead of building one.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:29
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Light sabers weren't really necessary though because the correct way to play was to become a sith and AOE force lightning insta-kill mobs
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Jun 3, 2014 21:37
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A MIRACLE posted:Light sabers weren't really necessary though because the correct way to play was to become a sith and AOE force lightning insta-kill mobs I learned that bare handed block and later deflect ability and ran around with blasters on a light side jedi guardian... and AOE'd force lightning insta killing mobs.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:40
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Obscil posted:Actually, Obsidian wanted to patch the content in, but Lucas Arts wouldn't let them. So you aren't far off with the DLC bit. I celebrated when LucasArts folded because of this. A MIRACLE posted:Light sabers weren't really necessary though because the correct way to play was to become a sith and AOE force lightning insta-kill mobs Hey now. Lightside cuisinart is a totally viable lifestyle choice.
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Jun 4, 2014 02:39
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Combat wasn't particularly hard, I played a single light saber user and rolled through most of the game (the force whirlwind thing makes it a lot easier). I didnt complete my dark side run, but I went full lightning and that was pretty over powered. I honestly think combat was broken in enough ways that you could probably use blasters the entire game and walk over almost everything without a lot of trouble after the tutorial area.
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Jun 4, 2014 05:39
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Skwirl posted:I honestly think combat was broken in enough ways that you could probably use blasters the entire game and walk over almost everything without a lot of trouble after the tutorial area. Scorchy went and did this yup, I'm just having a brain farty sort of day VVV Lord Lambeth fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 05:46
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Lord Lambeth posted:Someone did a Let's Play with blasters only, I swear. Jedi Jesus one? Think that one is in the lparchive.org
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Jun 4, 2014 05:48
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Mr.Pibbleton posted:I went to Nar Shadaar last on my first run, every other run I went there first. Also I didn't pay attention to my light sabre components and wound up looting light sabres instead of building one. This was especially bad because you don't even get just one companion from Nar Shaddaa, but three. I hate when games do that, especially when there's like zero indication that that's the case. I mean, no one was ever gonna use G0-T0 anyway, but HK-47! How lovely it would feel to unlock him thirty minutes before beating the game. Also, full disclosure, as much as I've played KOTOR2 I've never gotten far enough on a lady Exile run to actually use that one non-handmaiden guy as a companion. I've heard you don't miss much, though.
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Jun 4, 2014 07:07
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frajaq posted:Jedi Jesus one? Think that one is in the lparchive.org That's seriously the best LP ever. Well that one and the NWN2 one too.
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Jun 4, 2014 08:48
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Wolfsheim posted:Also, full disclosure, as much as I've played KOTOR2 I've never gotten far enough on a lady Exile run to actually use that one non-handmaiden guy as a companion. I've heard you don't miss much, though. If you want to play a lady Exile, I'd just grab a mod that let's you pick up Handmaiden.
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Jun 4, 2014 08:57
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Wolfsheim posted:This was especially bad because you don't even get just one companion from Nar Shaddaa, but three. I hate when games do that, especially when there's like zero indication that that's the case. I mean, no one was ever gonna use G0-T0 anyway, but HK-47! How lovely it would feel to unlock him thirty minutes before beating the game. ME2 has a companion who you have to pick up right at the end of the game if you want the best ending. The recruitment mission is also the trigger for the end game timer to kick in. I was really put out by that. At least in KotOR 2 you can beeline for your favourites on a replay. Also, I never actually finished KotOR 2 due to quest flags bugging out. Had two goes at it so far. Great game for the (pretty large) bit I played though.
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Jun 4, 2014 11:18
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Munin posted:ME2 has a companion who you have to pick up right at the end of the game if you want the best ending. The recruitment mission is also the trigger for the end game timer to kick in. I was really put out by that. At least in KotOR 2 you can beeline for your favourites on a replay. That was pretty awful but that wasn't how it was supposed to work. There was a last minute change forced by console limitations, which was also why the various companions had to recruited in two or three different groups instead of in any order at any time.
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Jun 4, 2014 11:32
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:That was pretty awful but that wasn't how it was supposed to work. There was a last minute change forced by console limitations, which was also why the various companions had to recruited in two or three different groups instead of in any order at any time. At least if you played the PC you could see some of the content made inaccessible by this simply by using a savegame editor to unlock the characters early. If only it was always that easy. Actually I think you could on XBox too, but the whole process of editing the savegames was a bit more work.
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Jun 4, 2014 12:12
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I'm currently playing through Planescape: Torment (again) and man, if there is one thing PoE takes away from this it's the sheer playfulness of it. You just never know what might happen in a conversation. Even the standard "let me ask you something else" nodes have little surprises in them sometimes. Not to mention all the items you can interact with. It's just so mischevious (and well-written of course), I love that. I know Josh has talked about the quest density in BG2 as a bad thing. But I hope some of PS:T's overall... I dunno, I guess density, will make it into PoE. There are just so many interesting little things hidden in conversations and everywhere. It feels like the game really filled up to the brim with fun stuff.
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Jun 4, 2014 14:08
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