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LobsterMobster posted:Nick Denis still has my favorite elbow-related destruction. i think that's how shane carwin should spin his career
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Jun 9, 2014 23:22
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Yuriy posted:i think that's how shane carwin should spin his career He'd gas out mid-spin
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Jun 9, 2014 23:25
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fatherdog posted:Urijah Faber is terrific at elbows, and he has stubby-rear end arms. Jones' reach helps a bit, as it does for any kind of strike, but I think it's more simply that they're difficult to train so it's unusual for people to be skilled and comfortable with throwing them. Jones is one of those guys that can pull off weird poo poo in the cage even if he doesn't do it as much in training. Brown/Faber 1 feels like a good example of why Jones can get away with stuff others can't. Not that Jones is only successful because of his reach, but he is less likely to get punched right in the face as you go for a fancy back elbow. Brown/Faber 2 is then a great example of a fight to watch if someone wants to see lots of forearms and elbows. It's like a New Japan Shoot Fight.
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Jun 10, 2014 00:11
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Jordan Mein is also real good at elbows.
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Jun 10, 2014 00:17
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[ joe sperg] OMG Anderson Silva KO'd that guy with an uppercut using his elbow!!!! /joe]
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Jun 10, 2014 00:48
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Matt Brown is pretty great at hammering people with thrust elbows to get to the clinch
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Jun 10, 2014 01:03
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Standing elbows obviously work well for Jones because he has really long arms, but I do think they're pretty decently utilised now. I think it's a quasi-generational thing. Striking technique in MMA, especially at the top level, is so far ahead of where it was 10 years ago. It really wasn't that long ago that Bas Rutten was saying the jab was pointless in MMA. I think there used to be this idea for a short while that the ideal combination of skills for MMA had been solved, and that fighters who came into the sport learning "MMA" rather than with a base in something and supplemental skills would be left behind. Related to that was the idea that TMAs were dogshit and useless, which is mostly true, but as the striking game has matured there's room for front kicks, spinning back kicks, taekwondo whatever, because it's not a rare and wondrous thing for a fighter to be able to punch with their left anymore. The value of MT and a MT specific coach has been seen for a long time, and a lot of the time they're guys who spent significant amounts of time in Thailand and were part of the full Thai rules striking world. But I'm really not sure there's a lot of them out there, because a guy like Daniel Woirin comes along and has worked with every single person in Brazil and now everybody at Team Quest.
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Jun 10, 2014 01:35
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Triticum Guzzler posted:Standing elbows obviously work well for Jones because he has really long arms, but I do think they're pretty decently utilised now. I think it's a quasi-generational thing. Striking technique in MMA, especially at the top level, is so far ahead of where it was 10 years ago. It really wasn't that long ago that Bas Rutten was saying the jab was pointless in MMA. It wasn't that long ago Bas was calling for elbows to be banned because they can only cut.
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Jun 10, 2014 01:36
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 Bas Rutten says a lot of stupid poo poo. This picture shows how elbows can be effective and how elbows can backfire massively.
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Jun 10, 2014 01:40
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Tezcatlipoca posted:
It was awesome because weeks later Jones destroyed Brandon Vera's skull with an elbow. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
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Jun 10, 2014 01:45
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Appreciate the responses - definitely solved my question. The length of a guys arm for moves like that is one of those things you can forget to factor in but it definitely makes sense being that reach means so much in a fight in general. Didn't know that they didn't come up in training much - I figured guys would be training with the padded helmets or pads on their arms for stuff like that to get a feel for it. Going to have to check out some of the fights that were mentioned too. Elbows connecting hard are one of those strikes that make me cringe seeing a guy get mashed with them but I can't look away when they happen. Sorta like liver shots.
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Jun 10, 2014 04:11
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You used to never really see standing elbows until about 2 years ago, I wonder what the turning point was
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Jun 10, 2014 04:13
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He expended too much energy and got tired
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When did Neer/Wisniewski happen? That was the craziest standing elbow fight I've seen and it lasted like 2 rounds.
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Jun 10, 2014 04:20
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1st AD posted:When did Neer/Wisniewski happen? That was the craziest standing elbow fight I've seen and it lasted like 2 rounds. October 1st, 2011. That was a loving bloodbath.
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Jun 10, 2014 04:22
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Yeah I actually remember that as being one of the first big ones, along with Denis killing Rufio from Hook.
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Jun 10, 2014 05:37
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Memento posted:October 1st, 2011. That was a loving bloodbath. http://www.ufc.tv/video/josh-neer-vs-keith-wisniewski-ufc-live-6 For anyone who wants to relive this. I forgot all about the great mouthpiece hunt.
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Jun 10, 2014 05:42
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Yeah if I recall after that fight I started seeing a lot more standing elbows, though only a few guys like Neer or Brown do that weird uppercutting elbow.
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Jun 10, 2014 05:48
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1st AD posted:Yeah if I recall after that fight I started seeing a lot more standing elbows, though only a few guys like Neer or Brown do that weird uppercutting elbow. Don't forget when Anderson Silva killed a man with a standing elbow out of boredom.
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Jun 10, 2014 18:31
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Captain Log posted:Don't forget when Anderson Silva killed a man with a standing elbow out of boredom. after watching bloodsport or some poo poo and repeatedly training at home with his wife and a couch cushion. Such an awesome story
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Jun 10, 2014 19:24
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Pwny_Xpress posted:after watching bloodsport or some poo poo and repeatedly training at home with his wife and a couch cushion. Such an awesome story A Tony Jaa movie if I'm not mistaken. Maybe Ong-Bak?
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Jun 10, 2014 19:50
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Fozzy The Bear posted:[ joe sperg] Captain Log posted:Don't forget when Anderson Silva killed a man with a standing elbow out of boredom.
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Jun 10, 2014 21:27
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LobsterMobster posted:A Tony Jaa movie if I'm not mistaken. Maybe Ong-Bak? It was Ong Bak. He apparently asked Rafael Cordiero to practice lead reverse elbows after watching it, was told that was a stupid waste of time, so he spent a half hour every night at home lead reverse elbowing a pillow held by his wife and won his next fight by lead reverse elbow, then never threw one again.
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Jun 11, 2014 03:01
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Fat Twitter Man posted:It was Ong Bak. He apparently asked Rafael Cordiero to practice lead reverse elbows after watching it, was told that was a stupid waste of time, so he spent a half hour every night at home lead reverse elbowing a pillow held by his wife and won his next fight by lead reverse elbow, then never threw one again. It's loving bizarre to me that there are people who don't like Anderson Silva
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Jun 11, 2014 05:32
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There was that one time where he spent 2 rounds literally running away from Demian Maia's standup prowess. That made me dislike him a bit.
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Jun 11, 2014 07:21
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That made me angry at the time but now that the sting of paying money for that has faded I have to admit it's pretty badass to be so good at fighting you can say "I don't think you've earned this title shot so I'm gonna effortlessly win 2.5 rounds then make sure the rest of the fight is brutally boring so you get absolutely zero career boost from sharing the cage with me."
Thermos H Christ fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jun 11, 2014 |
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Jun 11, 2014 17:32
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Thermos H Christ posted:That made me angry at the time but now that the sting of paying money for that has faded I have to admit it's pretty badass to be so good at fighting you can say "I don't think you've earned this title shot so I'm gonna effortlessly win 2.5 rounds then make sure the rest of the fight is brutally boring so you get absolutely zero career boost from sharing the cage with me." No, it's immature and stupid. Fighting is his job, he's being paid to fight. If he was trying his hardest to win and just looked bad, it's one thing, but he did the bare minimum and then got on his bike and wasted everyone's $45. It's like an actor deliberately doing a poo poo job in a movie on purpose because he thinks the script is beneath him but he needs the paycheck.
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Jun 11, 2014 17:56
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:No, it's immature and stupid. Fighting is his job, he's being paid to fight. If he was trying his hardest to win and just looked bad, it's one thing, but he did the bare minimum and then got on his bike and wasted everyone's $45. It's like an actor deliberately doing a poo poo job in a movie on purpose because he thinks the script is beneath him but he needs the paycheck. I thought the latter half of Marlon Brando's career was amazing. To each their own I guess.
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Jun 11, 2014 17:57
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dokmo posted:I can tell you as a point of comparison, the median basketball player misses 10% of the season with injuries. I think hockey is similar. Does the average fighter have to back out or reshedule 1/10th of his fights? That seems like it might be in the ballpark. Anecdotally that...sounds about right? Excluding your outliers like Nog. I suppose the main difference (and I might be wrong about this, and who knows if it even changes anything) is that basketball players predominantly get injured during games while fighters usually injure themselves in training. But fighters spend months training for a fight and ballers play three times a week so I dunno if you can make a meaningful interpretation of that.
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Jun 11, 2014 18:59
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:No, it's immature and stupid. Fighting is his job, he's being paid to fight. If he was trying his hardest to win and just looked bad, it's one thing, but he did the bare minimum and then got on his bike and wasted everyone's $45. It's like an actor deliberately doing a poo poo job in a movie on purpose because he thinks the script is beneath him but he needs the paycheck. I get that, but it's not like he didn't demonstrate his superiority at fighting. He casually smashed Maia's face in the process of putting on a silly dance act. I was very angry at the time but it also adds to his legend because it should be impossible for anyone to be so good enough at fighting they can do that to a guy who could kill any of us without raising his heart rate.
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Jun 11, 2014 19:05
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Thermos H Christ posted:I get that, but it's not like he didn't demonstrate his superiority at fighting. He casually smashed Maia's face in the process of putting on a silly dance act. I was very angry at the time but it also adds to his legend because it should be impossible for anyone to be so good enough at fighting they can do that to a guy who could kill any of us without raising his heart rate. Everyone should grasp by now that the silly dance act is an intrinsic part of his game used to bait and draw in guys who are hesitant to engage. The first half of that fight is Anderson utilizing that strategy to some success, but not enough to stop the fight. The second half is more open to interpretation but in my opinion is mostly about Silva beginning to fatigue and realize he wouldn't likely be getting the finish, thus stall tactics disguised as taunting. It's a relatively weak performance in his career however you spin it. Also majorly disagree with the guy (edit: no wait that's also you) who said Anderson's actions kept Maia's stock from being raised. Before the fight people were pretty sure Maia would get annihilated in the first. By the end of it people were chanting his name. Also, I forget whether the judges actually scored rounds 4 and/or 5 for Maia, but they certainly could have, at least in that they do crazier things all the time. If Dan Miragliotta was competent he also could've taken a point for timidity (the moment when Silva hid behind him would've been the time), meaning we were all robbed of the most hilarious draw. People talk about that fight likes it's Silva vs Okami 2 minus the knockout, but it's really more like GSP vs Shields minus the eyepoke Decades fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Jun 11, 2014 |
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Jun 11, 2014 19:23
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Are we just never going to talk about how Anderson blatantly cheated in Sonnen 2 again? Because as recently as a few days ago I recall someone describing that second round as "Chael giving up as soon as he stopped being able to get the takedown" and I think that is disingenuous both to that fight and to the discussion of reasons why people may have disliked Anderson Silva.
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Jun 11, 2014 19:33
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Do people really hate Silva because he grabbed shorts one time or do they hate him because he finished their favourite fighter twice?
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Jun 11, 2014 20:14
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I dislike him because he's disingenuous, attempted to murder someone for slapping him, and has been difficult to deal with. Him praising Weidman saying he's the best twice than having a list of excuses after both fights despite getting dominated was also annoying.
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Jun 11, 2014 20:18
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vainman posted:Do people really hate Silva because he grabbed shorts one time or do they hate him because he finished their favourite fighter twice? Obviously the latter, but the former gives them ammo for their cause. -Atom- fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jun 11, 2014 |
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Jun 11, 2014 20:23
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-Atom- posted:Obviously the latter, but the former gives them ammo for their cause. Actually, Seltzer posted:I dislike him because he's disingenuous, attempted to murder someone for slapping him, and has been difficult to deal with. Him praising Weidman saying he's the best twice than having a list of excuses after both fights despite getting dominated was also annoying. For me personally it's generally water under the bridge now that he isn't champ and Weidman wrecked him twice. My opinion on him also cooled after Jon Jones showed up and exuded every dickish, difficult-to-work-with quality Anderson had magnified tenfold.
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Jun 11, 2014 20:40
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I'm still really confused why people think grabbing shorts is a fool proof takedown defense. Like there are takedown in gi bjj and I've never been taught to grab pants when someone shoots a double
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Jun 11, 2014 21:04
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Bluedeanie posted:Are we just never going to talk about how Anderson blatantly cheated in Sonnen 2 again? Because as recently as a few days ago I recall someone describing that second round as "Chael giving up as soon as he stopped being able to get the takedown" and I think that is disingenuous both to that fight and to the discussion of reasons why people may have disliked Anderson Silva. That's exactly what happened though. Chael giving up is up for debate but he couldn't take Anderson down and promptly got destroyed.
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Jun 11, 2014 21:07
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Bluedeanie posted:For me personally it's generally water under the bridge now that he isn't champ and Weidman wrecked him twice. My opinion on him also cooled after Jon Jones showed up and exuded every dickish, difficult-to-work-with quality Anderson had magnified tenfold. This is exactly what got me thinking Anderson Silva wasn't that bad. Well Jones and most recently Wanderlei. It was a team effort.
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Jun 12, 2014 00:26
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Bluedeanie posted:Are we just never going to talk about how Anderson blatantly cheated in Sonnen 2 again? Because as recently as a few days ago I recall someone describing that second round as "Chael giving up as soon as he stopped being able to get the takedown" and I think that is disingenuous both to that fight and to the discussion of reasons why people may have disliked Anderson Silva. anderson grabbed the shorts but that doesn't mean that chael didn't look like he was going to cry
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Jun 13, 2014 15:06
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It sucks that Anderson cheated against such an upstanding and honest opponent.
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Jun 13, 2014 17:11
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