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C-Euro posted:I really want to build this once we reach The Promised Land of cheap(er) fetches. No idea why Glimpse is slowly approaching $30 though, I don't think mill is that widely used across the entire spectrum of eternal formats and I highly doubt anyone is running it in EDH (not that an effective mill deck in EDH wouldn't be hilarious) Glimpse has gigantic casual appeal even since it was printed. Insert whatever mill = casual joke you want, but its been over  for well over a year.
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Jun 13, 2014 05:52
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C-Euro posted:Bhsman, I saw this Esper Mill list about a year ago and held on to it, I imagine it's pretty close to what your opponent was running so maybe this will help? It looks similar enough; the main thing is that the player in question supposedly has Thursdays off and will be showing up on league night, so I want to be prepared for another match.
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Jun 13, 2014 05:58
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After playing 2-mans for five hours online, I've reached a conclusion about Breakfast Burrito. The Mimeoplasm win condition is not slightly better than Laboratory Maniac variants, it is significantly better. I played 32 matches, winning 18 and losing 14. In three of those matches, I won crucial games with help from my opponent siding in Leyline of Sanctity, which Triskelion is intended to trick the opponent into playing. I was surprised by how often this happened, but I did get a few opponents keeping otherwise bad hands and losing because they thought the Leyline could shut down my win condition.
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Jun 13, 2014 07:20
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Is there ever a moment in which you would keep both Triskelion AND Solifuge? Just to see?
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Jun 13, 2014 08:32
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bhsman posted:Is there ever a moment in which you would keep both Triskelion AND Solifuge? Just to see? Yes, there are matchups in which it's appropriate. Sometimes I'll do it in the mirror - a hardcast Triskelion beats Breakfast Burrito because you can ping two Narcomoebas, and then have it shoot itself in response. One matchup where it's always correct is Enchantress, because they play both Leyline of Sanctity and Elephant Grass.
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Jun 13, 2014 08:57
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Loaning shaman for anti mill tech.
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Jun 13, 2014 14:50
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I'm in the process of building a Delver deck for Legacy (just that stupid land base to go) and I'd like to run it in Modern as well (with a few changes to the Brainstorms, Ponders and Dazes) I was thinking of running American Delver to give access to Path to Exile to deal with big creatures, and Celestial Flare to deal with True Name Nemesis in legacy Apparently someone at SCG has thought of this already: Creatures (16) 4 Delver of Secrets 1 Grim Lavamancer 4 Snapcaster Mage 4 Steppe Lynx 3 Geist of Saint Traft Lands (23) ugh look at all those stupid fetchlands 1 Island 1 Mountain 1 Plains 4 Arid Mesa 2 Hallowed Fountain 3 Marsh Flats 2 Misty Rainforest 1 Moorland Haunt 2 Sacred Foundry 4 Scalding Tarn 2 Steam Vents Spells (21) 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Lightning Helix 4 Path to Exile 3 Remand 2 Spell Pierce 4 Serum Visions Sideboard 2 Relic of Progenitus 1 Grim Lavamancer 1 Combust 2 Mana Leak 3 Smash to Smithereens 2 Surgical Extraction 2 Vendilion Clique 2 Timely Reinforcements Seems legit. I'm not sure I'm a fan of cutting so many counter-spells though. I think I'd probably cut the Lynxes and the GoST for Young Pyromancer and more counter spells. Alternatively, the mono-U TWoo brew at the link above features Ninja of the Deep Hours - which combos nicely with Young Pyromancer. What do you goons think of American Delver in modern and/or legacy?
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Jun 13, 2014 15:21
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Everblight posted:Exactly. Dredge isn't a thing in Vintage, and Bazaar and Library are banned in Legacy. City in a Bottle is a solution looking for a problem. C'mon man do your research. Dredge is literally one of the strongest decks in vintage on the back of Bazaar.
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Jun 13, 2014 15:39
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Build the RUG Delver list that was on CFB a couple weeks ago that killed someone at 16 life with Tibalt's -2 into Hidetsugu's Second Rite. I'm in my phone otherwise I'd post the video.
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Jun 13, 2014 17:46
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Everblight posted:Exactly. Dredge isn't a thing in Vintage, and Bazaar and Library are banned in Legacy. City in a Bottle is a solution looking for a problem. Dredge is literally the best deck in Vintage by far. Have you looked at how many sideboard slots Dredge eats up for literally every other deck? City in a Bottle is a very good answer to a deck that will mulligan every hand without Bazaar.
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Jun 13, 2014 18:53
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bhsman posted:Is there ever a moment in which you would keep both Triskelion AND Solifuge? Just to see? I've done it against Painter's Stone. They can run Leyline and Pithing Needle.
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Jun 14, 2014 00:05
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AnacondaHL posted:I've done it against Painter's Stone. They can run Leyline and Pithing Needle. Triskelion loses to Leyline or Pithing Needle, Giant Solifuge loses to Moat or Elephant Grass. Did you mean something else?
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Jun 14, 2014 01:13
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:Triskelion loses to Leyline or Pithing Needle, Giant Solifuge loses to Moat or Elephant Grass. Did you mean something else?  I'm a moron, I meant Ensnaring Bridge.
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Jun 14, 2014 01:42
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Anyone else playing Vintage yet? I forgot what an absurdly crazy format it is. I'm playing the worst deck sorry! 4 Bazaar of Baghdad 4 City of Brass 2 Dakmor Salvage 4 Undiscovered Paradise 4 Bloodghast 2 Fatestitcher 1 Flame-Kin Zealot 4 Golgari Grave-Troll 2 Golgari Thug 4 Narcomoeba 4 Stinkweed Imp 4 Bridge from Below 4 Cabal Therapy 2 Darkblast 3 Dread Return 4 Mental Misstep 4 Nature's Claim 4 Serum Powder Side: 4 Chain of Vapor 2 Ichorid 4 Ingot Chewer 4 Leyline of the Void 1 Unmask not a perfect list, open to suggestions Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Jun 15, 2014 |
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Jun 15, 2014 14:16
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Have you tried sun titan in there? He gets a bazaar with his ETB which triggers landfall for bloodghast and also lets you use bazaar even more. He's pretty good in there
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Jun 15, 2014 14:34
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It was alright when I tried it. Seemed like it was helping me combo off when I was already comboing off. I've yet to really run into a spot where I think "man, I'd love to see a Titan Right now" I'd rather find space in the main for Ichorids before running a titan but I could be wrong. Biggest problem is predictably sideboard, especially against the Oath decks. I can hit their yard hate or their oath but usually not both before I eat a griselbrand. EDIT: In fact I don't think I've won a single match, hate is way strong. Anyone know a good primer for Dredge? I've been playing for hours and I don't even win half of game one. I'm sure its just my operations and decisions being poo poo, so I could use some kind of guide. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jun 15, 2014 |
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Jun 15, 2014 15:09
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Stinky Pit posted:Anyone else playing Vintage yet? I forgot what an absurdly crazy format it is. Its not the worst deck, thats shops. The biggest key to victory with it is placing as few spells on the stack as possible. Ideally you shouldn't care if they resolve, ie flashing back therapy to get more zombies. I suggest cutting the Nature's Claim from the main (because you have better more synergistic options for the mainboard), and the Missteps entirely. Also cut one-2 Dakmor Salvage, and run 1-2 Petrified Fields to get back Bazaar. Run the full 4 Ingot Chewers in the main, at worst it makes zombies (which usually is the best thing you can be doing), at best it does anything misstep can do (that you care about), ie killing cage on turn one, and hitting random Moxen/Lodestone Golem/whatever. Fatestitcher is cute, but really bad because it only helps if youre winning. Play Wispmare out of the board to hit Leyline, RIP, and Oath. Also play Firestorm, it is the perfect thing to rebuild your yard with after killing their hate. A friend of mine played within ~ 2 cards of this list at last year's Eternal Weekend vintage portion to top 32 I believe. He waffles back and forth on keeping black leyline in the main (usually cutting 1 bloodghast, 1 Ingot chewer, 1 Darkblast, and 1 whatever has been sucky recently) or the board. In game one if its not relevant its food for unmask, if it is it often slows down your opponent (like oath or the mirror) enough that you can hit your turn 2 unmolested and start making ludicrous numbers of zombies. 4 Bazaar of Baghdad 4 City of Brass 1 Petrified Field 4 Undiscovered Paradise 4 Bloodghast 1 Flame-Kin Zealot 4 Golgari Grave-Troll 2 Golgari Thug 4 Narcomoeba 4 Stinkweed Imp 4 Bridge from Below 4 Cabal Therapy 2 Darkblast 3 Dread Return 4 Serum Powder 4 Ingot Chewer 3 Ichorid 1 Ancient Grudge 3 Unmask Side: 2 Chain of Vapor 3 Wispmare 4 Nature's Claim 2 Firestorm 4 Leyline of the Void
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Jun 15, 2014 16:07
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Turns out the Pauper Madness deck is really good
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Jun 15, 2014 18:38
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Zorak posted:Turns out the Pauper Madness deck is really good Care to share a list?
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Jun 15, 2014 18:46
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Stinky Pit posted:Care to share a list? Don't have one, all I know is that it's completely wrecked my poo poo multiple times when I've been brewing other stuff.
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Jun 15, 2014 20:04
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Zorak posted:Don't have one, all I know is that it's completely wrecked my poo poo multiple times when I've been brewing other stuff. I've been screwing around with U/G and it doesn't feel all that great to me. Its ok, but there haven't really been any moments where I felt like I was doing anything real powerful. Circular logic has been pretty lack luster for me as well. Early game I generally don't have the cards in the yard to make it do antyhing, and late game I am usualy just hard casting it instead of madnessing it. To me it feels like a deck that is filled with 2 types of cards, the discarders and the madness cards. If you don't get the right distribution of each you are stuck with a bunch of really lovely cards that do nothing.Even when you do get the right mix, it doesn't feel like you are doing anything spectacular. eSporks fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Jun 15, 2014 |
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Jun 15, 2014 23:08
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So I'm trying to get into vintage. My store has a monthly sanctioned vintage tournament where the winner usually gets a mox. So unfortunately the best way to get into Vintage seems to be into Vintage (the rich get richer  )I thought I'd start with some sort of GW Hatebears because it seems really strong against any sort of degenerate vintage deck (all of them.) Plus they're the cheapest Moxes and I might actually be able to trade for/borrow a Pearl. I was thinking of something like this list, but updated with some newer cards. I'm currently Power-less so it would be something like -3 Power +2 Spirit Guide +1 Aether Vial. Off the top of my head, I think Thalia, and Spirit of the Labyrinth have a place in here to shut down Gush, Cantrips, etc. I was thinking Stony Silence, but I'm not sure if I really need or want it with 4 Revokers, 4 Kataki, 3 Pridemage and 4 Aether Vial.
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Jun 15, 2014 23:15
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I've gotten wrecked by the u/g madness pauper deck a few times - I've seen all the green madness stuff in torturedexistence.dec lately too. I don't think it is a particularly great deck, and I don't really have fun playing it, but it has some great interactions, and pauper doesn't often get new decks so it is popular right now. Seem to beat it regularly with mono-red but have trouble with slower decks. After trying to play 4cc for ages and getting slightly better at playing a glacial deck, I've been brewing aggro to play quick matches while I study. I started off playing pauper rdw but after seeing rites of initiation I had to brew with it. This deck is meatheaded as poo poo, but I'm 26-4 (in the casual room, lol) with it so far. Ideally you cast kuldotha rebirth off a bone saw, then rites 2nd turn for 15/18 and win off your topdeck next turn. Otherwise just drop lots of gobbos, pump and swing. My main concern is the dynacharge/hearth charm/rites balance. A hand where you're going to rites doesn't really support dynacharge w/overload. Any advice? REBIRTH RITES 14x mountain 4x great furnace 4x bone saw 4x flayer husk 4x goblin bushwacker 4x myr servitor 4x dragon fodder 4x krenko's command 4x kuldoltha rebirth 4x lightning bolt 4x dynacharge 4x rites of initiation 2x hearth charm E: also ideas for sideboard tech against gary? He ruins everything in long games. field balm fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 00:17
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Wadjamaloo posted:U/G or G/R? UG, I'm pretty sure you can basically make outright a old-Standard UG madness deck in common now. Zorak fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 01:52
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Zorak posted:UG, I'm pretty sure you can basically make outright a old-Standard UG madness deck in common now. You'd be missing the 6/6 for 3G (Roar of the Wurm), Ancestral Recall (Quiet Speculation), and 0-mana Levitation (Wonder). It's amazing how many powerful cards that deck had with no rares.
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Jun 16, 2014 07:46
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I've been trying out Breakfast Burrito on Cockatrice, and I have to wonder: is there a way to win (via combo) if: - More than one Narcomoeba is in your hand? - You draw one or both Bridges? Just had a game where I managed to Pact -> ESG -> Tinder Wall -> Undercity Informer, but since I had a Bridge in my hand and two Narcomoebas there, I couldn't get enough creatures to Dread Return anything. Cabal Therapy doesn't help when it's the engine in your hand, not the finisher!
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Jun 16, 2014 11:07
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ungulateman posted:I've been trying out Breakfast Burrito on Cockatrice, and I have to wonder: is there a way to win (via combo) if: I'm going to guess you're running the standard 3/2 split of Narcomoeba and Bridges. Assuming you're forced to use Undercity Informer instead of Balustrade Spy, and don't have anything else (like Wild Cantor) spare to use as Return fodder: - If you have two Narcomoeba in hand you can't go off. Sorry, but them's the breaks. - If you have one Narcomoeba and one Bridge in hand, you can Therapy yourself to discard the bridge, and then use your second Therapy to get yourself up to three zombies. - If you have two Bridges in hand, you can just Dread Return off your three Narcomoeba - or if you really need to Therapy (say you've got a finisher in hand as well), you can first therapy the bridges out of your hand, and then get back up to three creatures with the second one. This is another reason why I prefer the Mimeoplasm kill package - the Underworld Cerberus kill can't make use of either of those double-Therapy lines.
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Jun 16, 2014 11:23
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ungulateman posted:I've been trying out Breakfast Burrito on Cockatrice, and I have to wonder: is there a way to win (via combo) if: In that situation, you could have won by waiting until you could discard Bridge from Below to the hand size limit, and then going off with the Bridge in your graveyard. Tinder Wall and Undercity Informer would each give you a zombie token, and the last Narcomoeba is your third creature.
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Jun 16, 2014 16:29
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suicidesteve posted:So I'm trying to get into vintage. My store has a monthly sanctioned vintage tournament where the winner usually gets a mox. So unfortunately the best way to get into Vintage seems to be into Vintage (the rich get richer One of my friends has played this pile a bunch, and its really really competitive. The power is completely unnecessary, and these pics were from before Spirit of the Labyrinth came out, probably swap in 2, maybe 3 for some Legionnaires. The reds splash helps a TON. Most men in vintage are low toughness, and Lavamancer means you always get to eat their blockers or Bobs.   
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Jun 16, 2014 16:38
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L0cke17 posted:I suggest cutting the Nature's Claim from the main I tested this for a while and wasn't loving it. Pretty much the only deck that consistently troubles me Game 1 is Oath of Druids, which is taking maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of the first games from me. Turn 1 or 2 Oaths are possible an obnoxious amount of the time and a resolved Griselbrand is a very tough thing to beat. An evoked Ingot Chewer is great at getting by Mental Misstep but I think maybe claim might be worth it since it can hit Oath as well? I'm sure plenty of why I'm losing to Oath is on me but the deck seems everywhere on MODO and it sucks looking at an Ingot Chewer in hand when you know a Claim would win you the game or give you a fighting chance.
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Jun 16, 2014 16:41
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Stinky Pit posted:I tested this for a while and wasn't loving it. Pretty much the only deck that consistently troubles me Game 1 is Oath of Druids, which is taking maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of the first games from me. Turn 1 or 2 Oaths are possible an obnoxious amount of the time and a resolved Griselbrand is a very tough thing to beat. neetengie fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 17:37
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I added to the it to the board but Wispmare wouldn't go in the main over Nature's Claim because of shop decks
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Jun 16, 2014 17:56
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Is there potential for a Modern deck built around the interaction between Thassa and Counterbalance, or is that too cute / slow compared to the Legacy versions that can use Top? I'm thinking stuff like Sage of Epityr and Judge's Familiars to set up draws / disrupt the enemy, then have Master of Waves as the win condition after beating them in the face with an unblockable 5/5.
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Jun 16, 2014 19:06
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Crystal Ball!
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Jun 16, 2014 19:15
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Try Scryfish and Lantern of Insight perhaps?
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Jun 16, 2014 20:32
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L0cke17 posted:One of my friends has played this pile a bunch, and its really really competitive. The power is completely unnecessary, and these pics were from before Spirit of the Labyrinth came out, probably swap in 2, maybe 3 for some Legionnaires. The reds splash helps a TON. Most men in vintage are low toughness, and Lavamancer means you always get to eat their blockers or Bobs. Yeah I was definitely thinking Spirit of the Labyrinth needed to be in there somewhere. I wasn't sure about Thalia. She seems like she'd be a lot less strong in Vintage. The red sounds pretty good, actually. Any time I get to use Viashino Heretic I'm super happy. If only I had any Naya duals of fetches besides WG. I'll definitely look into it after I get this together.
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Jun 16, 2014 20:36
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ungulateman posted:Is there potential for a Modern deck built around the interaction between Thassa and Counterbalance, or is that too cute / slow compared to the Legacy versions that can use Top? I'm thinking stuff like Sage of Epityr and Judge's Familiars to set up draws / disrupt the enemy, then have Master of Waves as the win condition after beating them in the face with an unblockable 5/5. If it interests you I think you should try it, but I doubt it'll work nearly as well. There are a lot of things at work that make counter-top good in Legacy that you don't necessarily have working for you in Modern, even if you discount Top's superior deck stacking abilities. For example, the mana curve of spells you want to counter in Legacy is more compressed and Top itself gives you nearly guaranteed protection against 1cc spells regardless of what is on the top of your deck, something a Modern Counterbalance deck would lack. The combo itself is also much more vulnerable now than it was in the past with Abrupt Decay being a thing. I think you'd have to really question if the extra control and disruption it gives you is worth the amount of space you're giving up in your deck to support it (and the quality of those cards). If the plan is to beat down, I think you really have to question if it's worth playing stuff like Sage of Epityr in the hopes that you can intuit what your opponent's next play would be, vs. playing other disruption that doesn't require the same level of support and using higher quality creatures. But Counterbalance is a powerful card, and it's possible there is some synergistic combination of modern cards that can take full advantage of it. v  v
LGD fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 20:41
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Stinky Pit posted:I tested this for a while and wasn't loving it. Pretty much the only deck that consistently troubles me Game 1 is Oath of Druids, which is taking maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of the first games from me. Turn 1 or 2 Oaths are possible an obnoxious amount of the time and a resolved Griselbrand is a very tough thing to beat. Maybe just try ditching Missteps for Ingot Chewers and run both? Misstep does basically nothing against Oath for you, and they probably have more countermagic so you're not winning any wars.
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Jun 16, 2014 21:06
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Stinky Pit posted:It was alright when I tried it. Seemed like it was helping me combo off when I was already comboing off. I've yet to really run into a spot where I think "man, I'd love to see a Titan Right now" I'd rather find space in the main for Ichorids before running a titan but I could be wrong. I particularly like using Dread Return --> Sun Titan --> Serenity. You should win the large majority of your first games in Dredge. Its probably literally the best deck in MTG in all formats if left unhated, but basically every Vintage board is heavily skewed towards Dredge hate. I haven't played enough games to give a good percentage, but I tend to at least win the first game against Oath since you can Cabal Therapy your way out of Force most of the time to get yourself on the road to going off. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 21:13
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L0cke17 posted:Maybe just try ditching Missteps for Ingot Chewers and run both? Misstep does basically nothing against Oath for you, and they probably have more countermagic so you're not winning any wars. Yeah I might try it. Its frustrating at the moment. I think Games 2 and 3 are really tough since I lack experience and while plenty of other players do too, their post board plan is a lot simpler. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 21:33
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