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Octy posted:'Families that sleep together stay together' - GRRM "Closer kin, deeper in."
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Jun 16, 2014 15:18
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Can someone remind me what the "only cat" thing is about? I haven't read the books in ages and can't deduce it from reading the last few pages of the thread. Obviously I know about Lady Stoneheart, just wondering who said that line and what the context was.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:51
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Tsyni posted:Can someone remind me what the "only cat" thing is about? I haven't read the books in ages and can't deduce it from reading the last few pages of the thread. Obviously I know about Lady Stoneheart, just wondering who said that line and what the context was. Littlefinger before killing Lysa
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Jun 16, 2014 15:52
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Majorian posted:I'm kind of bewildered by posts like this. I'm equally bewildered by posts that have no problem with the show cutting out important thematic elements for no reason whatsoever. The whole Tysha thing was a major formative moment in Tyrion's life and played a huge roll in making him the cynical bastard we know and love (until book 4). Jaime confessing the truth about her and Tyrion telling him he killed Joffrey was a tense and emotionally engaging moment that had ramifications for both characters, not to mention tying up a loose story that's been mentioned repeatedly. If you thought that scene was poorly written, my bewilderment increases. If you were referring to Tyrion being poorly written as a result of that conversation, well, sure, but it seems like fixing that end product would have been the smarter and more effective approach. In general, I thought that was an extremely underwhelming finale, which describes at least 3 out of 4, now.
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Jun 16, 2014 15:55
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Yeah I thought it was underwhelming too. I don't think the Tysha thing was bad writing, and it gave him additional reason to kill his father. Changing being angry about that to "I loved Shae", the woman he just murdered (Tyrion should have shot first...), seems cheap in comparison. No "she's loving lancel and friends" either. I wish Stannis got more lines too.
Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 15:58
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Every episode that airs in which nobody makes a jape about the nipples on nuncle's breastplate leaves me feeling that whatever else you want to say, HBO are much better at this poo poo than gurm's terrible books.
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Jun 16, 2014 16:00
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Seriously, the show has now eliminated at least one element that made Book 5 so much worse than the rest. We may never have to hear "Where do whores go?" even once! As I recall, wights did attack Bran & Co. just as they reached the cave. In the absence of Coldhands, giving warged Hodor fighting skills was a reasonable substitute. And the grenade-hurling Child was no big deal. I was disappointed by Bloodraven's look, too, but my show-only friends loved that whole scene. The wildling army did seem too small once Stannis actually attacked, but that's a minor quibble. Lady Stoneheart was an eye-rollingly dumb and so far pointless resurrection of a character whose arc had a satisfactory ending. Brienne vs. The Hound was such a good addition that I'm happy for the show to keep changing less essential (and often detrimental) Gurm plot points.
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Jun 16, 2014 16:23
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Captain Mediocre posted:Every episode that airs in which nobody makes a jape about the nipples on nuncle's breastplate leaves me feeling that whatever else you want to say, HBO are much better at this poo poo than gurm's terrible books. Pretty much this. Combining tertiary characters, removing pointless storylines, and truncating bullshit has already made some significant improvements, and each one feels like the writers quietly calling out the gurm on his bullshit. (I'm mainly thinking of Brienne and Pod's encounters with Hot Pie and then Hound & Arya here.) It's the kind of poo poo that editors are supposed to be for, and a sign of how little power gurm's editor has had over the last two books. I'm going to have to start watching the show on a regular basis next season now that it's finally caught up to the books. I still think an ending or post-credits scene with Stoneheart would have been awesome, just having her and the others kill some random Frey dudes like in the book. The season's last shot could have been a close-up of Michelle Fairley's dead, murderous eyes staring out of a shredded, zombie-colored face. Especially with Jon telling Stannis to burn the bodies, random skeletons killing Jojen, and Gregor beginning phase one of going Frankenstein. Edit: Though I suppose it's  So I guess we got trolled by Lena Headley on that one. 
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Jun 16, 2014 16:25
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Captain Mediocre posted:Every episode that airs in which nobody makes a jape about the nipples on nuncle's breastplate leaves me feeling that whatever else you want to say, HBO are much better at this poo poo than gurm's terrible books. Except the way the show is going, by the time it catches up to where the books go bad, they'll all be saying jape and nuncle and the costume department will literally be putting nipples on the breastplates. e: I enjoyed the Brienne/Hound fight, even though it was a dumb premise that had could have had no good outcome. Habibi fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 16:26
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I, for one, look forward to seeing Obi-Wan Mormonti fighting next to Tyrion wearing sexy nipple rings on his armor
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Jun 16, 2014 16:34
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Aurain posted:That doesn't mean a lot though. Osha could easily have thought "oh, I'll take him to cannibal unicorn murder island. It's probably safer than Bolton ruled North" and never took him there anyway. Yeah, Davos can easily "investigate" and have him travel all around the North and then it turns out they went to Skagos.
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Jun 16, 2014 16:55
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Habibi posted:I'm equally bewildered by posts that have no problem with the show cutting out important thematic elements for no reason whatsoever. The whole Tysha thing was a major formative moment in Tyrion's life and played a huge roll in making him the cynical bastard we know and love (until book 4). Yeah, but they've already established part of it, and the rest of it (ie: she was a whore! No wait, she wasn't a whore! WHAT A TWIST!!!) was ridiculous and didn't add anything to it. I also loved how it informed his character from book 1 onward, but I also don't think it would have been possible to actually portray this on the screen in an effective way, short of there being flashbacks, which would have been awful. So the showrunners did the next best thing by making Shae a much more likable, compelling character, which is great, because holy poo poo did that make her betrayal of Tyrion, and her subsequent murder, all the more heartbreaking heartbreaking. In all honesty, while I get that some depth has been lost from Tyrion, I don't think it was all that much, and I think it was worth the sacrifice to streamline some otherwise needlessly convoluted plotting. e: To be fair, it's been a couple years since I've read ASOS, and I'm planning on rereading it, so I may change my tune after that.
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Jun 16, 2014 17:03
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Stannis being the Mannis was awesome and Brienne vs. The Hound was a fantastic change from the books that hopefully made GRRM feel dumb. As for Blood Raven: who gives a poo poo what he looks like, no one is going to feed Bran Jojen soup!!!! 
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Jun 16, 2014 17:04
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I forgot to mention that the Shae killing scene was fulfilling. For a moment I thought he was going to stab her to death with that Pin of the Hand... but I guess that was just to ID whose room they were in. And that final pan with Shae's dead face, while it was a bit too peaceful in death, was alright in my book. Hey.. so Did varys like.. get off the boat.. hear poo poo going down, and get right back on again - headed to Pentos? Maybe they wrote out the fat merchant dude. Intel&Sebastian posted:Stannis being the Mannis was awesome and Brienne vs. The Hound was a fantastic change from the books that hopefully made GRRM feel dumb. As for Blood Raven: who gives a poo poo what he looks like, no one is going to feed Bran Jojen soup!!!! man , I know I wanted them to feed him Jojen. Stannis was breddy cool - but the CGI troops looked like poo poo, and the numbers don't really make sense to me.. I hope they explain how 100,000 wildlings got their asses kicked in 15 minutes. Best to not look too deep down that hole, and let them take their liberties with that poo poo. kcroy fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 17:18
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kcroy posted:I forgot to mention that the Shae killing scene was fulfilling. For a moment I thought he was going to stab her to death with that Pin of the Hand... but I guess that was just to ID whose room they were in. Varys looked like he was supervising sending Tyrion off, then yes, heard poo poo going down and decided to get the hell out of dodge himself.
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Jun 16, 2014 17:22
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kcroy posted:Hey.. so Did varys like.. get off the boat.. hear poo poo going down, and get right back on again - headed to Pentos? Maybe they wrote out the fat merchant dude. Pretty much. I think more Varys and Illyrio on screen at the same time will be better than Illyrio giving a long-winded exposition of their past.
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Jun 16, 2014 17:23
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Majorian posted:Varys looked like he was supervising sending Tyrion off, then yes, heard poo poo going down and decided to get the hell out of dodge himself. Can't he just swim there with her mer-fins? Why does he need the boat? I'm sort of hoping they cut out the merchant. Sort of another useless character who doesn't do poo poo. I mean he was fine in the book, but I'm not sure the HBO needs him around. In the books, has varys turned up yet? Or is the last time we see him, with Tyrion in the tunnels.
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Jun 16, 2014 17:32
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kcroy posted:Can't he just swim there with her mer-fins? Why does he need the boat? He kills Kevan in the epilogue of Dance
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Jun 16, 2014 17:46
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geeves posted:Pretty much. I think more Varys and Illyrio on screen at the same time will be better than Illyrio giving a long-winded exposition of their past. And some of that they already covered with some Varys exposition regarding details of his past that aren't learned until like book 5, right?
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Jun 16, 2014 17:49
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kcroy posted:
They gave themselves enough cover by talking a few times about how it's only Mance holding them together. After he's captured I'm sure a lot of them hosed off to go do whatever they want, started fighting eachother, and then a number appropriate for the budget allotted to extras will decide to go through the tunnel.
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Jun 16, 2014 17:51
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TequilaJesus posted:Bloodraven is an old man sitting on a tree. The Jaime and Tyrion thing was especially poo poo. kcroy posted:Fireballs were stupid, and I couldn't stop thinking about LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT! LARP video. Hahaha, I was thinking about the same thing! So, which characters have run out of book stuff?
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Jun 16, 2014 18:29
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Personperson14 posted:It feels really loving weird seeing good ASOIAF fanart. You want good art:   
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Jun 16, 2014 18:44
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Hogge Wild posted:The Jaime and Tyrion thing was especially poo poo. Bran and Sansa are extremely close but not quite. Brienne is also getting there but it looks like she's going to diverge from the book, especially depending on what's up with Stoneheart.
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Jun 16, 2014 18:54
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kcroy posted:In the books, has varys turned up yet? Or is the last time we see him, with Tyrion in the tunnels. Epilogue of ADWD: kills Pycelle and Kevan, declares his support for young Aegon to the dying Kevan, disappears into the shadows once again.
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Jun 16, 2014 18:55
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kcroy posted:Stannis was breddy cool - but the CGI troops looked like poo poo, and the numbers don't really make sense to me.. I hope they explain how 100,000 wildlings got their asses kicked in 15 minutes. Best to not look too deep down that hole, and let them take their liberties with that poo poo. The wildlings probably could have lasted longer but Mance didn't want a slaughter so he yielded early. Plus it's been said many times that a large number of those 100,000 wildlings are women & children.
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Jun 16, 2014 18:55
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kcroy posted:Stannis was breddy cool - but the CGI troops looked like poo poo, and the numbers don't really make sense to me.. I hope they explain how 100,000 wildlings got their asses kicked in 15 minutes. Best to not look too deep down that hole, and let them take their liberties with that poo poo. Besides what's been said already, I think Mance's forces were spread waaaaay out, since it's a siege and he wasn't expecting to have to fight a combined cavalry force. Stannis somehow figured out where Mance's position was and launched a medieval version of a surgical strike.
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Jun 16, 2014 19:04
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I wonder if someone was listening in on that scene. New-Aegon has the red herring/fake targ stink all over him and it'd be weird as poo poo for Varys not to know that and then spend Kevan's last moments lying to his face. Edit: lol what if Maester Aemon warged into young Aegon-a-like and he's like a half real targ? my only support for this super great fan theory is that he died around the time of the reveal. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 19:08
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emanresu tnuocca posted:If they ever start talking about Freys mysteriously getting killed in the riverlands we could get started with the Stoneheart hype all over again, but for now we can just assume it was decided that it wasn't worth the screentime. This is great. I never considered they'd dropped her entirely. I still don't though: she's closely wrapped up in whatever happens to Brienne and Jaime!
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Jun 16, 2014 19:19
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I wonder if someone was listening in on that scene. New-Aegon has the red herring/fake targ stink all over him and it'd be weird as poo poo for Varys not to know that and then spend Kevan's last moments lying to his face. Yeah, if there's one thing I'm convinced of in this series, it's that Varys is always right - it's just often difficult to know what he's playing at. The fucker will keep on paddling, no matter how many ships sink under him. He's absolutely my favorite character.  I'm a big John le Carre fan, and I'd love for him to write a spinoff novel centering on Varys' career as a spymaster.
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Jun 16, 2014 19:19
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Majorian posted:Yeah, if there's one thing I'm convinced of in this series, it's that Varys is always right - it's just often difficult to know what he's playing at. The fucker will keep on paddling, no matter how many ships sink under him. He's absolutely my favorite character. You've basically already got that with Bloodraven in D&E. It would be interesting OTOH to know if he manipulates Aerys's rule in any way. Maybe his long game is to consolidate rule under a strong central government and eliminate the nobility entirely. Joffrey, the insane child, casually observed how unstable it is for the various major and even semi-major lords to have their own private armies. It may be entirely plausible for him to be weakening and discrediting the various noble houses through constant war and incompetence so that people are loyal only to the Targaryens.
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Jun 16, 2014 19:34
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I almost want Aegon to be real just so that speech would also be real. It was by far my favorite part of ADWD. P.S. Desperately seeking gif of Stannis not giving a gently caress about the wildling making a run at him
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Jun 16, 2014 19:35
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Majorian posted:Epilogue of ADWD: kills Pycelle and Kevan, declares his support for young Aegon to the dying Kevan, disappears into the shadows once again. poo poo you are right. wasn't everyone looking for him though after Tywin died? Or am I misremembering that. Did he just pop out of the goddamn shadows for that hit?
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Jun 16, 2014 19:52
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visceril posted:You've basically already got that with Bloodraven in D&E. I haven't read the Dunk & Egg stories, but I sure as poo poo will now. quote:It would be interesting OTOH to know if he manipulates Aerys's rule in any way. Maybe his long game is to consolidate rule under a strong central government and eliminate the nobility entirely. Joffrey, the insane child, casually observed how unstable it is for the various major and even semi-major lords to have their own private armies. I've been thinking a similar thing myself. A good deal of the story is already a parable on the need for a strong central authority that isn't made up of shitlords in a large, varied, multicultural kingdom. kcroy posted:poo poo you are right. wasn't everyone looking for him though after Tywin died? Or am I misremembering that. Did he just pop out of the goddamn shadows for that hit? Pretty much, yeah. He's clearly got something big in the works behind the scenes, and it's more than just tracking down Aegon.
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Jun 16, 2014 19:59
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Hogge Wild posted:The Jaime and Tyrion thing was especially poo poo. It's not that the choices were terrible in the context of the show, it's just that this is one area where four of the five major story lines (Night's Watch, Bran, Tyrion, Brienne, Arya) finished with so much more punch in the books (I thought Arya's story pretty much wrapped just fine). I'm glad they went ahead and killed off Jojen, though. The "Love Conquers All" ending for Tyrion and Jaime was pretty  .
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Jun 16, 2014 20:06
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That horn that could supposedly knock down the wall wasn't brought up at all in this show either
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Jun 16, 2014 20:44
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Bran and Sansa are extremely close but not quite. Brienne is also getting there but it looks like she's going to diverge from the book, especially depending on what's up with Stoneheart.
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Jun 16, 2014 21:00
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Sansa's a little behind the show because we know a little about how Petyr is intending to solidify his hold on the Eyrie in the books, though they have diverged from it. That said, it's only one or two Sansa scenes worth of material and then they're ahead and they could cover that in a single episode with ease.
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Jun 16, 2014 21:03
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Basically I think that Littlefinger's plans seem different enough that we shouldn't be expecting particular Feast scenes. So I'm looking at Sansa's character development and from that I say she's definitely passed Book-Sansa.
Lycus fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 21:12
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Really enjoyed that on the whole, even if some stuff was disappointing (but when hasn't that been true?). I'm definitely in the camp that thought the Tysha story added a lot to Tyrion and his relationship with both Jaime and Tywin. On the flip side, no more 'where do whores go?'. Swings and roundabouts. Hound Vs Brienne was cool, and worked well to set up Arya ditching him. Swordfight was a bit poo poo, that's still one thing the show has trouble with, but the down and dirty street brawl it descended into was brutally cool. Cleganebowl is definitely not happening, nope, no ser-ee. I mean, it's not like they explicitly showed both brothers in the same episode lying there with similar looking mortal wounds. Nope, not happening. Stannis' arrival was fine. Would have worked better last episode. True that you never got a scale of the Wildling's army, but Stannis' cavalry was nicely sized, even if my computer can make Total War look better. Skeleton Wight attack was one of the better done fights, I thought. Bloodraven was hilariously bad. To add to the 'here's what I imagined' pile, I had in mind something along the lines of the crew of the Flying Dutchman in POTC who were slowly melding into the walls of the ship. The book emphasised the price that Bran would have to pay to 'fly', this was just an old dude on some logs.  No Cat. Probably contract/price/logistic issues getting her for one episode, but that's the perfect end-of-season-cliffhanger-epilogue exactly as written, so disappointing not to get it. It's so perfect in fact, that might it be possible that Stoneheart is cut?
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Jun 16, 2014 21:13
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Lester B. Pearson posted:Where does it say Dolorous Edd is gay? I never thought of him that way. you guys are being trolled
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Jun 16, 2014 21:15
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