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Octopode posted:In last week's Around the Verse, Travis Day claimed they were going to have all the single seaters in before they put the multicrew ships in. If they stick to that, they should all be in before 2.0, but CIG's plans are notoriously fickle. Thank you for watching that show, so I didn't have to.
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Jun 18, 2014 18:00
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I'm really late on the SC bandwagon. After taking the minute to figure out what I actually had to buy to participate in all of this madness, I downloaded the client and got in. I can tell everything's really rough and there is only the most bare-bones of a tech demo available right now, but it's still pretty novel & cool to me. I haven't played any other games of this genre besides Freelancer. This one seems fine for how much ambition they have and how early it is in the development of something of this size, so I am optimistic. Right now I use mouse & keyboard. I'm thinking about trying some other space/flight sim games, too, and will be interested in eventually getting an Oculus Rift or a joystick. Is just a decent joystick + the keyboard practical and worth it, or would you strongly recommend getting something like a saitek x52/x55 that comes with the throttle thing for the left hand, too?
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Jun 18, 2014 18:05
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^^ I have a cheap HOTAS joystick (with the separate throttle thing), costed around 50$ and it's lots of fun, it has so many buttons you normally don't need the keyboard, and I find the throttle genuinely useful since it's much easier to fine-tune your speed on the fly vs a keyboard. drat that Freelancer MIS is sexy. 2 to 6 missile reloaders sounds pretty awesome for a "basic" ship which hopefully can be easily bought with in-game credits (no Chris Roberts I'm not giving you 120$ for a Freelancer drat you) - also it has just 2 reloaders and a total of 36 missiles leaving space for cargo and other equipment while still being able to lay down lots of pain, I'd guess. What remains to be seen is the cost/effectiveness balance for missiles ; if they're too easy to shoot down / countermeasure or too expensive to replenish in between fights, I can see missile boats failing pretty miserably compared to more generalist ships. TorakFade fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Jun 18, 2014 18:12
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xgp15a-ii posted:Is just a decent joystick + the keyboard practical and worth it, or would you strongly recommend getting something like a saitek x52/x55 that comes with the throttle thing for the left hand, too? Personally I don't think having a throttle for the left had is all that important, or even preferable. You won't need to make fine adjustments to throttle much like you do with a flight sim. Instead it will be mostly 0% straight to 100% and back again, and you can do that with the W and S keys. Having a keyboard for the left hand is also useful for the larger number of key needed, and that list is only going to get bigger.
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Jun 18, 2014 18:23
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xgp15a-ii posted:Is just a decent joystick + the keyboard practical and worth it, or would you strongly recommend getting something like a saitek x52/x55 that comes with the throttle thing for the left hand, too? They state as a goal to make the game playable with mouse+keyboard and I expect some significant percentage of the game population to play that way. A decent joystick or even just an Xbox 360 controller will definitely be supported and very playable. While a HOTAS setup will also be supported, I don't strongly recommend getting one personally, especially if you only plan to use it for this one game.
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Jun 18, 2014 18:24
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While true, a decent throttle also has a pile of buttons and hats on it making a keyboard totally redundant in combat.
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Jun 18, 2014 18:28
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xgp15a-ii posted:Is just a decent joystick + the keyboard practical and worth it, or would you strongly recommend getting something like a saitek x52/x55 that comes with the throttle thing for the left hand, too? It's really subjective; I'm a big fan of using a joystick, but I've got a $40 Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS and it does everything I need it to; there's no need to drop 100+ just for a peripheral. I'm personally a big fan of having a throttle and find it far easier to use than the keyboard (and I change velocity a lot), but it comes down to personal preference.
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Jun 18, 2014 18:32
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I think I remember the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro being recommended in this thread. Is that accurate? Amazon is having a sale for them at $20.00. e: thanks for the replies. Moral_Hazard fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Jun 18, 2014 18:36
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MoraleHazard posted:I think I remember the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro being recommended in this thread. Is that accurate? Amazon is having a sale for them at $20.00. It's a good starter stick. I'd try one of those before I splurged on a HOTAS just to see if I liked it. Personally, I went from the Logitech to an X55, but I play other games to warrant the HOTAS (flight sims and the like). I'd also say that I use the throttle a lot in Arena Commander, because I find lowering your speed can help with some turns, and all the switches can take over for the keyboard, but there is nothing wrong with using just the keyboard and a cheap stick.
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Jun 18, 2014 18:42
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MoraleHazard posted:I think I remember the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro being recommended in this thread. Is that accurate? Amazon is having a sale for them at $20.00. It's worth getting, to get something better requires serious investment.
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Jun 18, 2014 18:54
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ROCKET SCIENCE
TorakFade posted:What remains to be seen is the cost/effectiveness balance for missiles ; if they're too easy to shoot down / countermeasure or too expensive to replenish in between fights, I can see missile boats failing pretty miserably compared to more generalist ships. I'm wondering if they're going to have any kind of computer controlled countermeasures launcher / anti-missile system for smaller ships as a potential upgrade. It seems logical, given the fact that AI turrets are going to be a thing, and if that's the case missile boats are probably dead in the water except against the dumbest / poorest people (which could probably be handled with a relatively cheap missile anyways). If countermeasures always have to be managed manually, however, I can see them being a lot more useful.
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Jun 18, 2014 19:09
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Octopode posted:I'm wondering if they're going to have any kind of computer controlled countermeasures launcher / anti-missile system for smaller ships as a potential upgrade. It seems logical, given the fact that AI turrets are going to be a thing, and if that's the case missile boats are probably dead in the water except against the dumbest / poorest people (which could probably be handled with a relatively cheap missile anyways). If countermeasures always have to be managed manually, however, I can see them being a lot more useful. I can't see them doing automatic countermeasures for exactly the reasons you mentioned. In the end, its a game, and making people respond to events happening in the game is part of the challenge of it all.
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Jun 18, 2014 19:36
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In most games I play where you can use missiles, they're always really strong. They explode for big damage, and they lock on and home in. The downside is always just that they have low ammunition count, and ammunition is expensive. Just from my experience in the AC versus the Vanduul swarm, this seems to be the case here, too - a missile will wreck an enemy easily. Do you think SC will have adequate counters against missiles? Like, flares/chaff, ECM stuff to break target locks, or just plain nimble maneuverability to dodge missiles? And that these countermeasures will be actually effective? If missiles are reliable enough, and can be mounted instead of guns, guns seem sort of useless.
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Jun 18, 2014 19:46
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xgp15a-ii posted:In most games I play where you can use missiles, they're always really strong. They explode for big damage, and they lock on and home in. The downside is always just that they have low ammunition count, and ammunition is expensive. Just from my experience in the AC versus the Vanduul swarm, this seems to be the case here, too - a missile will wreck an enemy easily. Think about it this way: How many times have you been hit by missiles? Yes, the missiles are pretty drat powerful, but proper use of flares and boost mean they're an annoyance at most. Even against the AI, missiles lose a great deal of their effectiveness once you start fighting enemies above Hunter Level. Add in the limited number you can carry and trading in guns for missiles (something I don't think is possible anyways due to the hardpoint system) becomes less and less a viable spec strategy.
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Jun 18, 2014 19:50
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Renaissance Spam posted:Think about it this way: How many times have you been hit by missiles? Yes, the missiles are pretty drat powerful, but proper use of flares and boost mean they're an annoyance at most. Even against the AI, missiles lose a great deal of their effectiveness once you start fighting enemies above Hunter Level. Add in the limited number you can carry and trading in guns for missiles (something I don't think is possible anyways due to the hardpoint system) becomes less and less a viable spec strategy. This'll get worse though once they implement different missiles like IR and Radar lock, right now all missiles are IR and don't require switching to chaff. It'd be funny if when they implement the P52, Constellation owners will have to fly that instead of being gifted a Hornet.
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Jun 18, 2014 19:57
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Missiles, even cheap ones, can provide a huge annoyance / distraction in combat, even if not striking an enemy. I know I've fat fingered my flare button a few times in Vanduul swarm and though I avoided the incoming missile, it put me in a disadvantageous position in some way. Further, overwhelming countermeasure dispensers in terms of cycle time or even just ammo count might be possible with enough cheap missile spam. Personally I like the prospect of single missiles being somewhat easy to avoid, but many at the same time or in rapid succession (teamwork is OP) causing far greater difficulties. We really don't know enough about the entire missile / countermeasure system at this point to make any sort of real judgement, but I hope that they remain a viable low ammo count weapon useful for specific situations. EDIT: VV I agree. I hope different homing mechanisms will have different quirks and such. We know we have infrared, radar and image recognition tracking so far (possibly EM too?). Each of those should have quirks to possibly trick the missile without using countermeasures, like cutting in front of another hornet in your hornet to get a image recognition missile to go after an enemy (or at least some j4g / ally). Marathanes fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Jun 18, 2014 20:03
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Hopefully they will accurately model the way radar missiles work so if you fire a missile at them from head-on/BVR chaff won't effect the lock, also maybe even a SACLOS type missile (guided by the player basically) that isn't affected by anything other than a powerful ECM suite. SACLOS missiles might be a bit OP vs larger targets though, since you could just spam them from afar in a missile boat and precisely target ship subsystems and propulsion.
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Jun 18, 2014 20:07
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Renaissance Spam posted:Think about it this way: How many times have you been hit by missiles? Yes, the missiles are pretty drat powerful, but proper use of flares and boost mean they're an annoyance at most. Even against the AI, missiles lose a great deal of their effectiveness once you start fighting enemies above Hunter Level. Add in the limited number you can carry and trading in guns for missiles (something I don't think is possible anyways due to the hardpoint system) becomes less and less a viable spec strategy. This is pretty much my view. Missiles in previous Wing Commanders were only really reliable when launched on a competent trajectory. Missiles launched because you could did not have a very high hit rate. Justin Tyme posted:It'd be funny if when they implement the P52, Constellation owners will have to fly that instead of being gifted a Hornet. Well they have said that the p52 con be flown optionally when the Constellation is added. Justin Tyme posted:SACLOS missiles might be a bit OP vs larger targets though, since you could just spam them from afar in a missile boat and precisely target ship subsystems and propulsion. When launched at long distances it should be pretty easy just to target and shoot down the incoming missiles. It was in all the previous Wing Commanders.
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Jun 18, 2014 20:24
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I think I'm ok with the idea that missiles are high-damage weapons that are expensive to use and avoidable with the appropriate countermeasures. I'd expect a paradigm where faster fighters are able to outmaneuver them (essentially making missiles a distracting kind of debuff again them) and slower fighters are able to defeat missiles by deploying flares and chaff at the appropriate time (a resource cost). I would also imagine that bigger ships might have the option to have anti-missile batteries in the place of normal turrets (flak cannons basically), and all ships will probably have the options to make them harder to lock onto by selecting specific components. I also hope that capital-ship busting torpedoes are a thing that fighters can escort while the enemy defenders try to shoot them down. I also like how the current ships in Arena Commander feel somewhat fragile (with the exception of the buggy shields on the hornet). I like how the shields basically absorb a hit or two, and then any further damage to your ship really hurts you, which kind of mirrors air combat in real life. It does make me wonder about how the Persistent Universe will work though - are you really going to be able to do many things in small single-seat fighters, or are you really expected to upgrade into bigger ships when you first get the opportunity? If you think about how often you die in Vanduul Swarm, having a PU mission where you need to "kill the space bandits" sounds pretty risky. I can almost see a situation where you are expected to do a lot of things in bigger ships, and the smaller fighters are basically there for combat specifically. Like you will essentially need your Cutlass or Freelancer or whatever in order to tractor in material, haul goods, and the like, but if you are expecting trouble, having friends in some Hornets would be a superior option. It sort of looks like the ships will be very role specific, so I wonder if that will actually be the case?
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Jun 18, 2014 20:25
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imperialparadox posted:It does make me wonder about how the Persistent Universe will work though - are you really going to be able to do many things in small single-seat fighters, or are you really expected to upgrade into bigger ships when you first get the opportunity? I have a feeling the fighters will be pretty specialized, although they did talk some BS about the hornet tracker being used for exploration...but maybe they forgot to mention you had to be based on somebody's Idris out there in deep space. I do hope the larger ships hold together better than the hornet, because we're not going to be able to scoot away til our shields recharge
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Jun 18, 2014 20:36
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imperialparadox posted:I can almost see a situation where you are expected to do a lot of things in bigger ships, and the smaller fighters are basically there for combat specifically. Like you will essentially need your Cutlass or Freelancer or whatever in order to tractor in material, haul goods, and the like, but if you are expecting trouble, having friends in some Hornets would be a superior option. It sort of looks like the ships will be very role specific, so I wonder if that will actually be the case? That's the model I expect. Big ships do the heavy lifting, small ships are there to attack them and/or keep them alive. Fighters are your security, don't hire defensive fighters and there is a big chance you get screwed, which you risk by not paying them to accompany you. Broccoli Cat posted:I do hope the larger ships hold together better than the hornet, because we're not going to be able to scoot away til our shields recharge On of the devs did mention that the large shields on the Constellation gave substantially more protection than the Hornet, so it may go that way. Also ships to not have the largest shield size that they can carry equipped on them, so shields will get better. BitBasher fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Jun 18, 2014 20:39
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They just sent out beta invites up to #20.000.
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Jun 18, 2014 20:55
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Fredrik1 posted:They just sent out beta invites up to #20.000. Also it says something about weapon rebalancing weapons. Get in it, spreadsheet spergs! please tell me the Omnisky got nerfed and there will be brown sea threads by people who bought a half dozen with real money 
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Jun 18, 2014 21:05
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New Patch: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link//13956-Star-Citizen-Patch-123quote:New Features/Fixes E: "This version adds the ‘Squadron’ mode to the game’s multiplayer for all eligible testers." Octopode fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Jun 18, 2014 21:11
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imperialparadox posted:I can almost see a situation where you are expected to do a lot of things in bigger ships, and the smaller fighters are basically there for combat specifically. Like you will essentially need your Cutlass or Freelancer or whatever in order to tractor in material, haul goods, and the like, but if you are expecting trouble, having friends in some Hornets would be a superior option. It sort of looks like the ships will be very role specific, so I wonder if that will actually be the case? I like this concept, and judging from the high risk nature of combat as seen so far in Vanduul swarm, people who take missions would want to do them with friends. Going solo in a transport ship only to be ambushed by several pirate ships, even NPCs, could be very fatal. So I'd also assume that there should be a balance of risk vs reward. If it takes multiple players to mission with any reasonable chance of no-casualties, then the reward for mission completion should be something that would feel fair & reasonable to split across the members of the team. Particularly daring players can certainly go out alone in a fragile ship and if they succeed get the rewards all for themselves, but again - judging by how much we talk about dying in Vanduul Swarm, I think that our solo player here would have to be pretty highly skilled to avoid costly damages or death. That, or missions for the most part will be easier than the vanduul swarm, or maybe I'm just highly underestimating players' ability to kill without being killed.
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Jun 18, 2014 21:14
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When you buy something with UEC from the cash shop, is it permanent or does it get destroyed when your ship blows up?
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Jun 18, 2014 21:14
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Exioce posted:When you buy something with UEC from the cash shop, is it permanent or does it get destroyed when your ship blows up? For Arena Commander, since it is a simulation in the game, nothing is lost on death. For the PU, you will need to insure cash-bought equipment just like the rest of your equipment, or it will be lost when dying. This is a separate insurance from the insurance on your ship's hull, so any existing LTI will not apply for any upgrades over the base hull equipment.
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Jun 18, 2014 21:17
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In other words spending real money to buy gear in the Voyager Direct store is dumb.
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Jun 18, 2014 21:25
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Octopode posted:New Patch: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link//13956-Star-Citizen-Patch-123
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Jun 18, 2014 21:28
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Hey cool, I thought I would actually have to buy the hornet to fly a decent ship. Apparently not. Also, the game rules, I did get shot down and somehow managed to spawn outside my ship though.
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Jun 18, 2014 21:30
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Octopode posted:
I can't wait to see how many people froth with rage the first time this happens to them.
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Jun 18, 2014 21:37
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Widestancer posted:I can't wait to see how many people froth with rage the first time this happens to them. I wonder if things will happen like how people forget to upgrade their clones in EVE, and someone goes suicidal when they get their $2000 autism chariot blown up and realize that they forgot to extend their insurance.
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Jun 18, 2014 21:41
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Eldragon posted:Personally I don't think having a throttle for the left had is all that important, or even preferable. You won't need to make fine adjustments to throttle much like you do with a flight sim. Instead it will be mostly 0% straight to 100% and back again, and you can do that with the W and S keys. When dogfighting a throttle may not be necessary, but it's drat near impossible to dock or scoop cargo in Elite: Dangerous without making those fine adjustments. I believe Chris stated that docking will be done manually.
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Jun 18, 2014 21:45
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imperialparadox posted:In other words spending real money to buy gear in the Voyager Direct store is dumb. only if you assume this will ever be anything more than an arena-based game like MWO or War Thunder calusari posted:When dogfighting a throttle may not be necessary, but it's drat near impossible to dock or scoop cargo in Elite: Dangerous without making those fine adjustments. I believe Chris stated that docking will be done manually. in one of the ten for the chairmans he said docking will be automated but you may/may not have the option to do it manually
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Jun 18, 2014 21:47
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imperialparadox posted:I wonder if things will happen like how people forget to upgrade their clones in EVE, and someone goes suicidal when they get their $2000 autism chariot blown up and realize that they forgot to extend their insurance. With the amount of money people have invested into this game and the sheer amount of anger that it causes in people particularly in this thread I really do worry hence why I come here to make sure that they are aware of the cycle of abuse and do not take it too seriously. No one wants to see Octopode go Elliot Rodgers, for example; his understanding of the game's mechanics are impressive and bely an intelligent person who seems to just get worked up over certain things. There are several people here who are legitimately having a good time and can laugh at themselves and the game and are pretty awesome but some people have had some serious autistic episodes that make me wonder. Regardless, I shall continue to fight the good fight 
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Jun 18, 2014 21:49
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Justin Tyme posted:only if you assume this will ever be anything more than an arena-based game like MWO or War Thunder They mentioned before that they are thinking about providing a system where you can earn upgrades in game. Also, given that there will probably be extreme balance passes coming, I think that spending real money on a space-gun right now is dumb - whatever you buy might be crap in the next patch. Also, I expect this game to be SpaceWarrior Online for a long time.
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Jun 18, 2014 21:55
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Upgrades and access to new ships are definitely expected. It's really the only way to open up testing to some of the ships. I remember at least one dev mentioning they would probably do things like give everyone temporary access to a new ship so they could break it.
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Jun 18, 2014 21:57
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Upgrades and access to new ships are definitely expected. It's really the only way to open up testing to some of the ships. I remember at least one dev mentioning they would probably do things like give everyone temporary access to a new ship so they could break it. Incidentally, dangling a cool internet spaceship in front of nerds only to then take it away from them is a great way to squeeze out more moneys. Same way drug dealers give out free samples to get fools hooked.
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Jun 18, 2014 22:15
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Upgrades and access to new ships are definitely expected. It's really the only way to open up testing to some of the ships. I remember at least one dev mentioning they would probably do things like give everyone temporary access to a new ship so they could break it. The caveat, which I'm not sure they've spelled out yet, is that anything earned this way will probably only persist through the testing period, however long that is. There have been conflicting bits of information in the past, but the latest information seems to be that essentially you will be wiped back down to whatever you've actually pledged/bought when the final PU goes live (in 2144). Which is probably one of the best examples of where their modular development approach hurts them--if they do develop a WarThunder in space progression system to keep AC relevant over time, it's likely that the development effort that went into that would be wasted effort, eventually, when the real progression system finally goes in.
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Jun 18, 2014 22:19
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Octopode posted:There have been conflicting bits of information in the past, but the latest information seems to be that essentially you will be wiped back down to whatever you've actually pledged/bought when the final PU goes live (in 2144). Really? That directly contradicts what I have heard them say more than once, which is that they plan to have no wipe at all at the "official launch" but instead that the universe just keeps on rolling. They said there would be wipes throughout the alpha and beta, but not at the end. Where did you hear that?
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Jun 18, 2014 22:25
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