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We've already seen a Doom Universe. It doesn't go well for Doom.
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Jun 19, 2014 00:14
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Lobotomizing Dooms whenever they found one was the only thing I liked about the Council of Reeds.
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Jun 19, 2014 00:20
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Iron Man and Mr. Sensitive have a knock down, drag out fight at the Church of the Naked Truth.       X-Statix #24
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Jun 19, 2014 00:35
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I feel like the reason why Doom is an interesting villain is because, discounting his ego, the future he wants isn't bad from a certain point of view. If the things you value most are world peace, the end of world hunger, education, prosperity for everyone, and the end of all disease, Doomworld isn't bad. The problem is, that's also a world without freedom, ruled solely for eternity by one guy who was willing to kill a poo poo-ton of people and commit atrocities to get there. The noteworthy aspect of that set of panels isn't that he lies his way through Bast, because he's not lying. The test isn't whether his immediate motivations are good, it's whether his heart's in the right place- and taking that comic in a vacuum, it is. Hell, Bast straight up says she already knew that and just tried to find a way to stop him because he's a shitlord. SALT CURES HAM fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 01:13
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Doom's future is total fascism. I don't mean that in the sense of fascism as a slur, I mean it is the platonic ideal of fascism. It is the Paxton definition quote:Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion Doom is obsessed with the intrinsic violence of humanity, and his perceived humiliation by Reed and sense of victim-hood (that Reed sabotaged his invention to humiliate him), has delved into the occult and science with his stated goal of unifying people, harnessing their energy in pursuit of his vision of a pure preserved future. He has an army of Doombots and loyal citizens that he uses to move towards his own ends (Doom being the traditional elite literally, he is an aristocrat) achieving his goals not through democratic means but ends justify the means of violence to get rid of any internal or external threat. And in his speech to Bast there he has taken it even further, with the scope and breadth that only Doom's ego and drive can. Not only is the state is everything, Doom as the leader is the entirety of the state. There is nothing but him and his power, and even the lives of others are mere manifestations of it because their lives are entirely defined in relation to the totality of Doom's control and Doom's power. It is the ultimate definition of fascism. His idea that this is the only way that anything can survive is because his ego blinds him to defining success as anything but him being everything. We've seen universes where he was literally God, and the presence of free will meant he didn't control it all, so he defined it as a failure and being beneath him. He truly honestly believes that what he is doing is right because of how he defines right and the methods to it. I think Waid actually did a really good job with showcasing Doom in this respect, even if his solution (Reed's invasion and overthrow of Latavia and SHIELD taking over as a military occupation of it) is blatantly obvious Bush era Iraq War cheerleading. He has Doom using the same fascist methods to control his country. His personal obsession with Richards and his views on power and purity lead to the "turn the only person I ever cared about into a skin suit because then she can't be used against me and I have power" is in perfect character with this.
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Jun 19, 2014 01:58
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SALT CURES HAM posted:Don't know exactly what issue of Saga these are from (I have the trades on Comixology and I wasn't keeping track, plus these aren't my scans), but holy loving poo poo: Lying. 
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Jun 19, 2014 03:00
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Uthor posted:Iron Man and Mr. Sensitive have a knock down, drag out fight at the Church of the Naked Truth. That was loving wonderful.
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Jun 19, 2014 03:41
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X-Statix was pretty far ahead in social commentary, people forget it came out 15 years ago I think. Just the whole tone of the book is completely just awesome. I still say it's some of Mike Allred and Milligans best work ever.
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Jun 19, 2014 04:59
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I don't doubt it was, but does a naked fight consisting of pokes have anything to do with social commentary? Unless Tony Stark's bing-bong is a metaphor for capitalism or something.
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Jun 19, 2014 05:25
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No the rest of the book was though, it has a lot of really dark moments to it and was really was huge send up of things, it also had a lot of actual social commentary, I even think one of the members was gay. It also did the "Superheroes as Supermodels / SuperFamous/ Reality Show / Marketing ploy" that became popular later on although I think it came after Authority and a few other books though that started going that route..I mean it dealt with some really crazy poo poo and was just really good. It was really dark, funny, and at the same time serious and made fun of the genre. It was just really good.
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Jun 19, 2014 06:09
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Mr. Maltose posted:It's also complete bullshit, but leave it to a goddamn cat to buy it. It's a cat god. Doom probably sent it a telepathic agreement to give it endless belly rubs and piles of D8's catnip for a pass on the whole genocidal madman thing.
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Jun 19, 2014 19:41
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Nah, Doom doesn't have to bribe it, Doom just described how every cat sees its relationship with its owners, except Doom's litterbox is changed by the entire world.
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Jun 19, 2014 19:47
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I always liked that interpretation because it shows that Doom is literally delusional down to his very soul. Also, apparently that " Doom controls the world and there is Peace" is I think a throwback to 2099 where Doom does rule the world I think. Wish I had some scans of 2099 stuff, I always loved the Spiderman book.
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Jun 20, 2014 01:39
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Thor God of Thunder 23: King Thor got knocked into space fighting Galactus, so his granddaughters stepped in while Thor went off to grab his ace in the hole...   
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Jun 20, 2014 08:32
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TwoPair posted:Thor God of Thunder 23: King Thor got knocked into space fighting Galactus, so his granddaughters stepped in while Thor went off to grab his ace in the hole... kfhahahahahahahahaha that last panel
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Jun 20, 2014 09:18
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I assumed Doom couldn't conceive of a future in which he didn't exist, so all his scryings really did come down to a single option. Doom will rule the world, or destroy it trying.
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Jun 20, 2014 11:56
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I wonder why Thor swapped the weapons to different hands between pages.
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Jun 20, 2014 15:16
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Dez Orwell posted:I wonder why Thor swapped the weapons to different hands between pages. Same reason his eye-patch switched sides.
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Jun 20, 2014 16:05
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Man it's just impossible to take Galactus seriously. He gets his rear end kicked every drat time he shows up.
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Jun 20, 2014 18:13
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Karanas posted:Man it's just impossible to take Galactus seriously. He gets his rear end kicked every drat time he shows up. You've got a point there. I'm a little bummed that he seems to be emotional and angry. I like him a lot better when he's distant and unemotional. It makes it so much more impressive when he does actually let loose. (Annihilation #6, which I'm sure is in this thread already.)
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Jun 20, 2014 19:16
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I can remember a Fantastic Four run where they set Galactus upon some other cosmic rear end in a top hat in a battle over who gets to eat the Earth and I was expecting some good fightin' but of course it ends with Reed bringing out the goddamn Ultimate Nullifier again, or something that looked like an Ultimate Nullifier. Galactus should just find the factory that makes them and eat it.
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Jun 20, 2014 19:37
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prefect posted:You've got a point there. I'm a little bummed that he seems to be emotional and angry. I like him a lot better when he's distant and unemotional. It makes it so much more impressive when he does actually let loose. (Annihilation #6, which I'm sure is in this thread already.) To be fair, Galactus started out distant and was just finishing up now that Earth is dead, but after so many issues of Thor punching him in his face (Which, by issue 23, is no longer there) he's gotten pretty frustrated.
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Jun 20, 2014 20:02
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Dick Trauma posted:I can remember a Fantastic Four run where they set Galactus upon some other cosmic rear end in a top hat in a battle over who gets to eat the Earth and I was expecting some good fightin' but of course it ends with Reed bringing out the goddamn Ultimate Nullifier again, or something that looked like an Ultimate Nullifier. Galactus should just find the factory that makes them and eat it. That was at the end of Marv Wolfman's run, and the relevant issues were pencilled by John Byrne. The bad guy in question was the Sphinx, who escapes being the worst FF villain from the 1970s solely by virtue of the fact that Salem's Seven and Janus the Nega-Man were created in the same decade. Galactus beats him in a fist fight then shoots him back in time to relive his entire life up to the moment he was defeated because even though Galactus is above human morality, he's still a gigantic rear end in a top hat.
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Jun 20, 2014 21:39
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I have problems pretending Thor isn't a joke in the face of truly cosmic threats. Dude eats planets, you are a pissant God of a religion that died out the second it made serious contact with the outside world. You don't rate, stop pretending you are cool.
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Jun 20, 2014 21:53
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Jack Kirby had Thor repel Galactus when he attacked Ego. Someone post that one so we can get this thread back on track. The Mighty Thor #161, I believe.
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Jun 20, 2014 22:18
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Boogaleeboo posted:I have problems pretending Thor isn't a joke in the face of truly cosmic threats. Dude eats planets, you are a pissant God of a religion that died out the second it made serious contact with the outside world. You don't rate, stop pretending you are cool. This is an older Thor suped up with the Odinpower and now a weapon that' skilled thousands of gods. Read God of Thunder,
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Jun 20, 2014 22:37
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Boogaleeboo posted:I have problems pretending Thor isn't a joke in the face of truly cosmic threats. Dude eats planets, you are a pissant God of a religion that died out the second it made serious contact with the outside world. You don't rate, stop pretending you are cool. I can't believe you'd say that when you have a picture in a post above you with All Black the All Father God Butcher Necro Thor.
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Jun 20, 2014 22:43
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Boogaleeboo posted:I have problems pretending Thor isn't a joke in the face of truly cosmic threats. Dude eats planets, you are a pissant God of a religion that died out the second it made serious contact with the outside world. You don't rate, stop pretending you are cool. It's true that the Norse religion fell on hard times for a few centuries, but Thor has spent the past several decades flying around the universe kicking rear end and spreading the good word. There are probably entire planets worshiping him at this point. From Infinity:          
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Jun 20, 2014 23:01
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I swear if they do not put that scene in a film at some point then why the gently caress do we have superhero movies to begin with?
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Jun 20, 2014 23:26
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Goddamn that is some excellent poo poo.
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Jun 20, 2014 23:55
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Dick Trauma posted:Goddamn that is some excellent poo poo. Hickman has been writing the gently caress out of Thor and Hyperion in Avengers. From #13:    And here's 2 moments from #29: One from Thor and one from Tony.    
Happy Noodle Boy fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Jun 21, 2014 |
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Jun 21, 2014 01:38
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Did Tony turn evil at some point?
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Jun 21, 2014 04:08
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Ariong posted:Did Tony turn evil at some point? He's not evil, he's just being pragmatic.
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Jun 21, 2014 04:11
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muscles like this? posted:He's not evil, he's just being pragmatic. Tony is Renegade, Cap is Paragon.
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Jun 21, 2014 04:25
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When did Hyperion show up in marvel? Last I remember him was some weird sorta ultimates reboot where he xrayed a stripper and blew a big loving dent in the artic because he didn't want anyone messing with him.
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Jun 21, 2014 05:23
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:When did Hyperion show up in marvel? This is a different one. He shows up in Hickman's Avengers.
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Jun 21, 2014 05:39
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Opopanax posted:This is a different one. He shows up in Hickman's Avengers. Yeah, this one was saved by...AIM, I think? His earth was hit by a Incursion and AIM pulled him out.
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Jun 21, 2014 06:41
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:When did Hyperion show up in marvel? There have been Hyperions floating around the mainstream continuity since the 60's. At last count I think there have been four that have crossed over into Earth-616, one of which was a zombie  This latest one is cool though, he's like space-bros with Thor even though he has a bit of a stick up his rear end so they play well off each-other: Hyperion is this traumatized survivor (basically SuperFour Score fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Jun 21, 2014 |
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Jun 21, 2014 07:00
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There's basically six Hyperions: - Squadron Supreme - Squadron Sinister - Supreme Power - King Hyperion/Thunderbolts - Marvel Zombies Supreme - Hickman Avengers
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Jun 21, 2014 07:44
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Wasn't there a second Squadron Sinister Hyperion in Thunderbolts?
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Jun 21, 2014 08:34
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