|
SHISHKABOB posted:Whether or not you can see the hands is totally beside the point, yes of course we can see the hands the point is that it's really loving hard and it's a mess. Paolomania brings up a good point, I think. But...it's not. It's really easy to discern shapes and figures in backlight like that. Again, compare to the first image which is a spray of reds, oranges, and yellow-greens on top of the people. quote:It didn't stop him from blatantly making poo poo up multiple times in the Man of Steel thread, why would it anywhere else. I didn't read that one. Sounds fun.
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 16:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 14:51 |
|
|
Dear christ, it's not that you literally can't see the hands as if you've lost the ability to interpret visual information. It's that they're not the focal point of the shot even though the hands ARE the focal point of the characters and are presumably important in terms of what's going on. Hence why the extremely clear Punisher shot was posted in comparison and why he points out that the robot chair, which is relatively irrelevant to the shot, draws attention instead of the more relevant hands in the Pacific Rim shot.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 16:22
|
|
|
McSpanky posted:This is a pro loving post right here. I'm gonna print this out and put it in my DVD case. write "Godzilla Is Dead" on it
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 16:22
|
|
|
Prism Mirror Lens posted:Dear christ, it's not that you literally can't see the hands as if you've lost the ability to interpret visual information. It's that they're not the focal point of the shot even though the hands ARE the focal point of the characters and are presumably important in terms of what's going on. Hence why the extremely clear Punisher shot was posted in comparison and why he points out that the robot chair, which is relatively irrelevant to the shot, draws attention instead of the more relevant hands in the Pacific Rim shot. I'll take your word for it, but the orange lights and visors on the bodies and helmets draw my attention far more than the blue on blue.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 16:25
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:I'll take your word for it, but the orange lights and visors on the bodies and helmets draw my attention far more than the blue on blue. For me the (pretty vague and probably unintentional) focal point of the image is around Mako's bright orange visor and the light blue machinery behind it. That isn't where you want the viewer to be looking, because there's nothing important there. Obviously in motion the hands will catch your attention more simply because they're moving, but the points of interest that the viewer should be looking at - the face and hands - are both partially obscured. The face by the visors, the hands by their silhouette being lost against the similarly coloured background and mess of machinery, and even going off the edge of the frame in Mako's case. It ain't exactly a Tarkovsky still, you get me
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 16:33
|
|
|
The point SMG was trying to make is in any case irrelevant, as while the actors are looking at their hands, that's pretty unimportant to the viewer because they should be (as you are, even though you think it's inexplicable) looking at Mako's reaction to piloting a Jaegar for (presumably) the first time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 16:44
|
|
|
He's not saying the hands are the focus of the shot, he's criticizing the aesthetic and composition of the shot. It is messy and not "anime". This is in opposition to the argument that Pacific Rim was an "anime" movie.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 16:47
|
|
|
The characters symbolically merge with the literal death machine built entirely to kill a specific race of creatures, losing their personal identity in the process as they become homogenous with the machine of death. 'not fascism'
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 16:49
|
|
|
SHISHKABOB posted:He's not saying the hands are the focus of the shot, he's criticizing the aesthetic and composition of the shot. It is messy and not "anime". This is in opposition to the argument that Pacific Rim was an "anime" movie. I suppose if you focus purely on visual aspects that are going to be radically different due the fundamental differences between the two medium, I could see how you'd come to that conclusion. Pretty sure I've seen some messy and messily composite anime, though, so...
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 16:51
|
|
|
I don't know what part of the film that's actually from, but I would be surprised if it was Mako piloting for the first time, since she's out of focus. My focal point is actually more around the light blue metal bars in the background, and the gap between them and whats-his-name, than on her face, probably because there are a lot of curves and lines leading to that space. Try it by scrolling down to the image and noting where your eyes automatically fall. Who knows, yours could be different! e: ok yeah I take the point about it being an argument about 'anime', I got caught up in being annoyed about people goonsaying "uh actually I CAN see the hands" Prism Mirror Lens fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jun 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 16:51
|
|
|
Hbomberguy posted:The characters symbolically merge with the literal death machine built entirely to kill a specific race of creatures, losing their personal identity in the process as they become homogenous with the machine of death. I guess we didn't need to wait until the sequel. quote:
I mean, when they're talking about how blurry and unfocused it is and you can't even see it, if you actually can there might be a problem with what you're saying. Or maybe your monitor.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 16:59
|
|
|
Prism Mirror Lens posted:I don't know what part of the film that's actually from, but I would be surprised if it was Mako piloting for the first time, since she's out of focus. My focal point is actually more around the light blue metal bars in the background, and the gap between them and whats-his-name, than on her face, probably because there are a lot of curves and lines leading to that space. Try it by scrolling down to the image and noting where your eyes automatically fall. Who knows, yours could be different! There is only one part of the movie where those two stare at their hands, and it's when they are calibrating Gipsy after Mako finally gets her longed-for permission to be what's his name's copilot, which I got the impression based on several factors was her first time actually piloting a Jaeger (as opposed to just training for it). In this context, it makes natural sense that your focus should be on her reaction to it, and, for me personally, that's where it was (and where it goes now when I look at that still).
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 17:00
|
|
|
The words "not clear" do not mean "can't see".
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 17:05
|
|
|
SHISHKABOB posted:The words "not clear" do not mean "can't see". In a debate about whether or not something is clearly visible, failing to properly parse a sentence is a hilarious mistake to make.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 17:08
|
|
|
SHISHKABOB posted:The words "not clear" do not mean "can't see". You could have saved yourself some time and properly parsed my 'yes' response to mean, 'yes, I can see the hands clearly.' They're not stark against the background and they're not bright garish yellow, but they're pretty clear (especially when they're, you know, moving). And because they're not important to you, the viewer, why is it even relevant whether they're clear or not?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 17:14
|
|
|
SHISHKABOB posted:The words "not clear" do not mean "can't see". They are both visible and clear to me. I am sorry I wasn't clear enough about that. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jun 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 17:30
|
|
|
In the cockpit, the hands are just machinery that mirror the jaeger character's motions up until a human needs to use them for some ancillary control routine. When the hands matter or need to stand out, they have glowing bits appear by the hands, signifying artificiality -- "This is not the jaeger." Otherwise, the hands (as a part of a human body that incidentally needs to be present) do not matter. Contrast this treatment with mech development montage footage that demonstrates rather obtrusive rigs encasing a man's arm, with an obvious man/machine division before they realize the oneness that is required to properly operate them. This oneness with the machines and each other is a big central theme, one that was originally going to be elaborated on more (with machines twitching in response to not-connected humans). The kaiju try to ruin that oneness; they'll tear your partner out. This even extends to how multi-party fights go well for the jaegers until the kaiju manage to split them up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 17:37
|
|
|
I hope the sequel is us finding a way to pass through the portal ourselves and going all kaiju on the master's homeworld and having the masters try and force us out and we realize we were the monsters all along. Actually, back when the movie was out, Del Toro mentioned something about Kaiju-Jaeger hybrids. Maybe that's how we'd get through the portal. In terms of cockpit talk I wasn't a fan of the dark jaeger suits they used in Gypsy 2.0. I preferred the white suits they wore in the beginning scene, it was easier to discern them from the background. But that was just a minor complaint, I could still easily tell what was happening. The whole movie could have used a little more light, I wanted a daytime battle and the best we got was Striker kicking the Sydney one's rear end in a short scene. But all the other major battles (Opener, Hong Kong, Underwater) were all dark and stormy. Would have liked a little more variation there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 17:38
|
|
|
Chronojam posted:... oneness with the machines and each other is a big central theme, one that was originally going to be elaborated on more (with machines twitching in response to not-connected humans). What. That sounds awesome. e: would love to see more daytime fights. Kinda figured the lack of them the first time around was because the CGI didn't stand up as well, and assumed Stryker worked because he was the least moving-part-y Jaegar. Habibi fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jun 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 17:49
|
|
|
Habibi posted:You could have saved yourself some time and properly parsed my 'yes' response to mean, 'yes, I can see the hands clearly.' They're not stark against the background and they're not bright garish yellow, but they're pretty clear (especially when they're, you know, moving). And because they're not important to you, the viewer, why is it even relevant whether they're clear or not? Where I come from, matte black on a black background with dark blue highlights is not 'clear'. It's pretty impressive that the response was simultaneously 'yes I can **technically** see the hands' and 'you're **not supposed to** see the hands'. I'm writing about cinematography, which means more than being merely onscreen, and has absolutely nothing to do with 'supposed-to-bes'. Here's an animated GIF:  You can see perhaps more clearly how the blue chair thing is the sole focus of the shot. Hero guy raises his arm from the control panel in a way that perfectly alligns with the spinning dohickey in the background. You can also note that Mako's reaction is delayed by a second, and that the blue chair thing lines up with her head. Cinematography is clearly going on, so it's not 'oh you're not supposed to see things'. Guillermo Navarro is not inept. The focus of the shot is (eventually) the blue chair-arm's upwards curling motion, the way it pops out from behind Mako, and then pulls her with it. The yellow lights, meanwhile, form a V that points straight at Hero Guy's face. In context, this shot immediately cuts to robot's massive fist. So yeah, the entire purpose of the shot is to show how the character's hands and forearms have been augmented. If you squint even slightly, the hands and forearms disappear against the background. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Jun 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 18:18
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Where I come from, matte black on a black background with dark blue highlights is not 'clear'. Maybe the beings from your planet simply evolved sensitivity to a different spectrum?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 18:27
|
|
|
Even if you can spot Waldo on the beach, the purpose of the Waldo book is to be as busy and noisy as possible. Waldo is not 'clearly visible'.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 18:34
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Even if you can spot Waldo on the beach, the purpose of the Waldo book is to be as busy and noisy as possible. This is great. Please, continue.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 18:36
|
|
|
The preponderance of dark, murky clutter was probably the worst part of Pacific Rim. If we got a sequel that was, from beginning to end, as clear as A) the five-second TV shot of the Australian jaeger running down a wall-busting kaiju and B) the ground-to-air Hong Kong fight, I'll be overjoyed.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 18:43
|
|
|
Honestly I liked the aesthetic. Busy shots with lots of color contrast appeal to me in ways that stark minimalism doesn't. I like picking out details and such, and I didn't have trouble following the fight scenes, any more than, say, the races in Speed Racer. I'll grant that other viewers DID have a problem following the action, and I think this may be a difference in the way people see things. Like, to me the contrasts in lighting helped define the shapes of monsters and kaiju well enough that I could register the action, whereas some movies with brightly lit scenes with a flat color palette can be harder to "read", whereas for other people that's plain as day.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 19:06
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:Honestly I liked the aesthetic. Busy shots with lots of color contrast appeal to me in ways that stark minimalism doesn't. I like picking out details and such, and I didn't have trouble following the fight scenes, any more than, say, the races in Speed Racer. I posted this as an example of bad action in the Godzilla thread.  What's going on here? NOTE: I did not cherry-pick the worst possible image. This is actually the clearest image I could get, going frame-by-frame, of Cherno Alpha getting pounced on by Leatherback.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 19:11
|
|
|
Jaeger in the center, two kaiju dog-piling him. You're starting to stray into RLM "How can anyone like this? Here's my test that proves it's horrible" territory.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 19:17
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:Jaeger in the center, two kaiju dog-piling him. I honestly could not see that at first, it just looked like two Kaiju.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 19:21
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:Honestly I liked the aesthetic. Busy shots with lots of color contrast appeal to me in ways that stark minimalism doesn't. I like picking out details and such, and I didn't have trouble following the fight scenes, any more than, say, the races in Speed Racer. The Hong Kong fight was definitely a busy shot with lots of color contrast, but it was also a really clear one. I liked Speed Racer, too, but I wouldn't compare Speed Racer to PR (except in the HK fight) at all, because while PR had bright colors and a (few (there are only a few spots of glowing yellow in those black-and-blue shots SMG posted)) sharp contrasts, it also had immense amounts of shadow, darkness, murk, fog, rain, spray, silt, and general grime. The movie's set up such that the Jaeger pilots don't actually know where the Kaiju are half the time until they're subjected to sudden ambushes and jump scares. It's not quite that PR's action was hard to read, it's that the action was quite often "the two combatants struggle in a dark and murky space, and the human is inside a sealed chamber that doesn't even have any windows, and the human is being communicated with remotely by people back at home base, and so overall the human characters are unsure of the monster's exact position and strategy".
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 19:21
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:Honestly I liked the aesthetic. Busy shots with lots of color contrast appeal to me in ways that stark minimalism doesn't. I like picking out details and such, and I didn't have trouble following the fight scenes, any more than, say, the races in Speed Racer. I liked the way it looked too, and for those saying it's not anime enough well you can for sure find mecha anime with that grimy-gaudy aesthetic (especially in the late 80s and after). But the approach is really inhibiting in the fight scenes imo. The underwater climax is just a disaster in how it sacrifices scale and clarity for no good reason.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 19:21
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:The preponderance of dark, murky clutter was probably the worst part of Pacific Rim. If we got a sequel that was, from beginning to end, as clear as A) the five-second TV shot of the Australian jaeger running down a wall-busting kaiju and B) the ground-to-air Hong Kong fight, I'll be overjoyed. As much as Pacific Rim is my favorite IP of this new and sexy decade, I have to admit the water fights were a bit drab. Especially when compared to the awesome as fuckall else city fight.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 19:22
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:Jaeger in the center, two kaiju dog-piling him. That's more like Cinema Sins than RLM.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 19:27
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:In context, this shot immediately cuts to robot's massive fist. So yeah, the entire purpose of the shot is to show how the character's hands and forearms have been augmented. If you squint even slightly, the hands and forearms disappear against the background. Meanwhile, there is a constant stream of orange lights rotating down into the hands, making them even more obvious. The chair only seems to become relevant and focused after the hands move forward, with the harness on the chair following (the chair in the shot is attached to the guy, not Mako). You can also see that Mako is not only behind what's-his-name on the movements like you noticed despite how hard it is to see, she's also not performing the exact same hand motions, showing how they're out of sync. That's the scene right before they almost accidentally kill everyone with the plasma gun too, isn't it? RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jun 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 19:32
|
|
|
The bright blue line of the chair-arm leads away from Mako's head. It is not literally attached to her head - I am talking about the lines of motion.Maxwell Lord posted:Jaeger in the center, two kaiju dog-piling him. That's not what's going on. Again, I'm talking about cinematography - not the mere fact that there is something onscreen. If that's your standard, then literally any shot is good. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Jun 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 19:33
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:
I hope this clears things up a little for you: 
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 19:48
|
|
|
One of these images was taken from Pacific Rim, and the other is from a press photo of George W. Bush holding a pumpkin. In which image are the pair of hands (their position, gesture, etc.) more clearly visible? 
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 19:53
|
|
|
You can see the hands in both
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 19:54
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:
Edit: SuperMechagodzilla posted:One of these images was taken from Pacific Rim, and the other is from a press photo of George W. Bush holding a pumpkin. In the sequel, all of the jaeger pilots will hold pumpkins in the conn pod. Neowyrm fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jun 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 19:55
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:One of these images was taken from Pacific Rim, and the other is from a press photo of George W. Bush holding a pumpkin. I literally thought this was another poster trying to make a joke until I saw your name because  A pumpkin, you say? Neowyrm posted:In the sequel, all of the jaeger pilots will hold pumpkins in the conn pod. Habibi fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jun 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 19:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 14:51 |
|
|
Neowyrm posted:it is only as simple as watching the movie to figure out what is going on, i.e. Leatherback pouncing onto cherno's poo poo. Again, I am not talking about the mere fact that something is onscreen.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 20:00
|
|