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EBR/Buell fanboys are like the mormons of motorcyclists.
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Jul 2, 2014 17:10
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We're really, really nice people?
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Jul 2, 2014 17:22
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You believe in a guy that has been proven objectively wrong multiple times. Spend a lot of your time trying to convince other people to believe in the same whacky stuff you believe in.
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Jul 2, 2014 17:26
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You lie. Erik is never wrong.
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Jul 2, 2014 17:29
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Discomancer posted:I've seen a Goldwing pulling a horse trailer (with a horse) in Wyoming. Don't even care how it rides with that weight behind it, that is awesome. 
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Jul 2, 2014 17:45
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Finally, turning the tables on car thieves who just toss our bikes in their cars and go.
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Jul 2, 2014 20:07
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n8r posted:EBR/Buell fanboys are like the mormons of motorcyclists. I mean, I really like my Buell, it has taken across the country, with virtually no issues, and thus far, it has never left me stranded. I am also aware however, that compromises have been made, especially with the HD powered buells. The way I look at it though, if this bike is already faster than me, why do I need an even faster one?
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Jul 2, 2014 20:27
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ReverendCode posted:The way I look at it though, if this bike is already faster than me, why do I need an even faster one? For so, so many awesome reasons. The new EBR's are rad. I hope they are good bikes. I hope they sell like hot cakes. I hope they become a strong brand over the next 10 years and become a US answer to the likes of Ducati/Aprilia. I'm not holding my breath, but I want it to happen. I'll not be buying into the first generation or two of bikes to help that happen though.
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Jul 2, 2014 20:43
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Harley is expected to offer ABS, yet the rider isn't supposed to invest the time/money in learning how to panic-stop without locking their brakes, or in purchasing and wearing proper protective gear that would mitigate potential injuries in a crash (Harley rider, both are probably pretty safe assumptions). I'm in two minds about this. First mind says, gently caress you bike rider that doesn't know how to close his right hand properly (if that's even where the front brake lever is on those tractors) but the second mind says their is a case against Harley for not supplying ABS. I've never had a bike with it on, but if it works, and it works well, there's no reason not to put it on a road cruiser at all. Aside from FREEDOM, of course.
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Jul 2, 2014 20:44
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You don't "need" a motorcycle at all though I bet. It's all relative - you always want a "better" bike. I don't buy the whole "it's much too fast for me, I could never use that!" argument. There are plenty of reasons to want a nicer / more advanced bike even if you can't ride it to its limit. Nicer suspension, electronics packages (TC, ABS, etc.), and more power all have their advantages. You don't have to be Marquez to enjoy those aspects of a bike. Personally I found Buells to be fugly and outdated but a market certainly exists for that niche. I think Buell was smarter this time around to basically sell his ideas to a company looking to grab a share of the market instead of a relatively closed-minded company like Harley Davidson. It'll be interesting to see how long the bikes remain influenced by EB instead of what the market demands. I think the downfall of EBR will be the fact they're competing with the big bikes now. It's no longer HD agreeing to toss some old engines into his special snowflake frame - now it's competing directly with BMW/KTM engineers on their flagship bikes. That being said friends that have ridden the 1190rx seemed to like it. They claim it was geared tall as poo poo so it was kind of boring but that it rode decent enough. I'm sure that free rides on an expensive enough bike will sway nearly anyone into saying nice things but it seemed generally well received.
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Jul 2, 2014 20:44
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Spiffness posted:For so, so many awesome reasons. I'm with you for the most part, maybe more optimistic; their their first stab at the Superbike thing seems to be pretty solid and I know how Erik likes his incremental improvements year over year. I'm not a buyer until they come with ABS though. Baller Witness Bro posted:It'll be interesting to see how long the bikes remain influenced by EB instead of what the market demands. There's this goofy Hero Hastur concept floating around that they say contains EBR DNA - it's looking more market-focused (or more Duke-focused) than their flagship fuel-in-frame/ZTL beasts:  Hero also has a faired 250 that, along with the Hastur, should round out their lineup nicely if these ever see the US market. Though if I were buying right now, Superduke 1290 is probably the ticket.
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Jul 2, 2014 21:51
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n8r posted:You believe in a guy that has been proven objectively wrong multiple times. Spend a lot of your time trying to convince other people to believe in the same whacky stuff you believe in. So basically Buells are the rear-engined Porsche of the motorcycle world?
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Jul 2, 2014 21:54
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Sagebrush posted:So basically Buells are the rear-engined Porsche of the motorcycle world? That's a pretty weak comparison. I don't think those are comparable. clutchpuck posted:There's this goofy Hero Hastur concept floating around that they say contains EBR DNA - it's looking more market-focused (or more Duke-focused) than their flagship fuel-in-frame/ZTL beasts: I find it ironic that EB went from "I'll do my own thing at any cost, even if it means leaving HD" to "gently caress it guys, make that thing look like a KTM!" in very short order.
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Jul 2, 2014 21:57
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That's a Hero though, doesn't seem that ironic for those guys to want a KTM-alike in their lineup.
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Jul 2, 2014 22:05
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Baller Witness Bro posted:That's a pretty weak comparison. I don't think those are comparable. In what way? I dunno much about the details of Buells, but if it really is a case of "we do this because we say it's better, though it hasn't yet been borne out by actual performance, but we're going to stubbornly keep doing it because we still say it's better" that really is a lot like Porsche and rear engines. Lots of people have suggested that the only reason the Cayman doesn't get the largest turbo engine and the widest tires (only available on the 911 Turbo) is because the Cayman, by virtue of its mid-engine design, would probably beat the comparably-powered 911 around the track, and prove that Porsche has been chasing a dead end for the last fifty years.
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Jul 2, 2014 22:15
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The problem is that you're comparing a company with what, 80 years-ish, history of vehicle development / racing heritage to a small-time idea man with revolutionary ideas such as "let's put the oil IN the frame!" and "what if we just make those rotors bigger and bolt them to the wheel itself?". I will concede that the ZTL rotors are supposedly decent but I just don't get how Buell is really doing that much to be a revolutionary in the motorcycle world by carrying these same ideas from company to company hoping he hits it big. As someone above me stated - EBR isn't looking so hot. Here's a recent interview with Geoff May listing some problems. I realize this is a race effort and not directly applicable to the street models but it's at least some feedback that the EBR's aren't blowing the competition out of the water by a mile. http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/06/21/on-the-record-geoff-may/ In response to my KTM comment above, that was a dumb joke.
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Jul 2, 2014 22:33
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Oh, no, see, I'm on your side. I was comparing Buell to Porsche as a negative -- Porsche still sticks with rear engines in the 911 because of German stubbornness and tradition. Literally every other high performance supercar, Le Mans prototype, F1 racer, etc puts the engine in the middle, but Porsche keeps the engine in the back and straps on more and more traction control and electronic stability and other technology that brings it almost, but not quite, up to par with a car using the same tires and engine but with a better weight distribution. But you'll never hear a Porsche person say that the rear engine is just an inherently dumb idea. Erik seems to do the same thing with ZTL brakes and fuel in the frame and all that. Could it be a better solution? Maybe, sure, why not. Is it borne out by lots of wins on the racetrack? No. Would the major manufacturers start doing it if they thought it could give them a significant, or even minor, advantage? You bet your rear end. So why is Erik still the only person with Erik's Stuff?
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Jul 2, 2014 22:42
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I read in an interview before the WSBK season began Erik basically saying that he knows they can't win but the data they bring off the track will be priceless. Also, what Geoff says about the pads getting chewed up fast, that's for reals. I do a pad replacement at about twice the interval my wife does hers on her BMW. Heck I bought some cheapo carbon-kevlar pads that went pretty much instantly. But the kool-aid says doing twice the brake jobs with only half the parts evens out in the end, and gently caress it I'm thirsty.
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Jul 2, 2014 22:50
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clutchpuck posted:I read in an interview before the WSBK season began Erik basically saying that he knows they can't win but the data they bring off the track will be priceless. A friend of mine got Titanfall recently, and it has this thing where you play the campaign entirely through multiplayer. So the bad guys are all human opponents in every level. Well of course this brings up the problem where if one team wins, the other one obviously loses, but both teams still have to feel like they are moving forward in their campaign. You can't just be all "well the other team won this map, that's the end of your campaign, feel free to try again." So whenever you lose a match, they throw in a bunch of stuff at the end where your commander says things like "drat! We lost this outpost, but we got a lot of good intel from their computers. We'll use it in the next match and this thing around for sure!" and it keeps you going like, okay, I lost but we could still win! And it does this every time you lose, even if you lose 20 matches in a row. Always "well we learned some good things and we'll get 'em the next time!" Oh, well, I forgot where I was going with this but I'm sure Erik will do great.
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Jul 2, 2014 23:04
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Sagebrush posted:Oh, no, see, I'm on your side. I was comparing Buell to Porsche as a negative -- Porsche still sticks with rear engines in the 911 because of German stubbornness and tradition. Literally every other high performance supercar, Le Mans prototype, F1 racer, etc puts the engine in the middle, but Porsche keeps the engine in the back and straps on more and more traction control and electronic stability and other technology that brings it almost, but not quite, up to par with a car using the same tires and engine but with a better weight distribution. But you'll never hear a Porsche person say that the rear engine is just an inherently dumb idea. My mistake - I read that the wrong way. I see your point now. I mean I guess it finally stuck this time after getting bankrolled by Hero but I just don't get the aversion to doing things similar to other manufacturers in areas that count. Like who the gently caress is gonna let that braking system sell them on the bike? I can't imagine anyone in the showroom standing next to a KTM 1290, EBR 1190, S1000RR, etc (Yes, I too wish a showroom like this existed haha) and being like "This german trash has these dinky rear end brakes, sign me the gently caress up for the EBR!"
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Jul 2, 2014 23:06
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Didn't a bunch of Buell engineers end up at Zero?
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Jul 2, 2014 23:08
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Baller Witness Bro posted:"This german trash has these dinky rear end brakes, sign me the gently caress up for the EBR!" Deutschlandschrott? Nein danke!
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Jul 2, 2014 23:09
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Sagebrush posted:A friend of mine got Titanfall recently, and it has this thing where you play the campaign entirely through multiplayer. So the bad guys are all human opponents in every level. Well of course this brings up the problem where if one team wins, the other one obviously loses, but both teams still have to feel like they are moving forward in their campaign. You can't just be all "well the other team won this map, that's the end of your campaign, feel free to try again." So whenever you lose a match, they throw in a bunch of stuff at the end where your commander says things like "drat! We lost this outpost, but we got a lot of good intel from their computers. We'll use it in the next match and this thing around for sure!" and it keeps you going like, okay, I lost but we could still win! And it does this every time you lose, even if you lose 20 matches in a row. Always "well we learned some good things and we'll get 'em the next time!" In D&D lingo we call it "fail-forward" 
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Jul 2, 2014 23:14
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Safety Dance posted:Deutschlandschrott? Nein danke! After a round of google translate to confirm this means what I think it meant I think it should be clear'd into the tank on all forthcoming EBR's. 
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Jul 2, 2014 23:17
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Baller Witness Bro posted:I just don't get the aversion to doing things similar to other manufacturers in areas that count. You don't get the first series-hybrid scooter to market by doing the same thing everybody else does!
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Jul 2, 2014 23:26
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When BMW did that, first they got criticised for 'not being true to their roots' then when the bike turned out to be devastatingly fast compared to the Japanese bikes it aped, they got criticised for it not having any character and being ugly. tl;dr: because people are idiots.
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Jul 2, 2014 23:33
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Razzled posted:In D&D lingo we call it "fail-forward" D&D having an optimistic term for it reinforces the idea that it's horseshit The thing I never get about ZTL brakes is how EB still hasn't found a way to keep them from hopelessly heatsoaking without those goofy and fragile air ducts
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Jul 2, 2014 23:37
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I get around that by not running it on the track 
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Jul 3, 2014 00:11
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Snowdens Secret posted:D&D having an optimistic term for it reinforces the idea that it's horseshit I thought the ducts solved the issue.
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Jul 3, 2014 00:44
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Those ducts are NASCAR-inspired. Are they really fragile? From the poking I did on the dealer floor model, they seem tough enough for their role of directing air but I'll admit that I haven't actually dropped one onto the duct.
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Jul 3, 2014 00:56
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Sagebrush posted:Oh, no, see, I'm on your side. I was comparing Buell to Porsche as a negative -- Porsche still sticks with rear engines in the 911 because of German stubbornness and tradition. Literally every other high performance supercar, Le Mans prototype, F1 racer, etc puts the engine in the middle, but Porsche keeps the engine in the back and straps on more and more traction control and electronic stability and other technology that brings it almost, but not quite, up to par with a car using the same tires and engine but with a better weight distribution. But you'll never hear a Porsche person say that the rear engine is just an inherently dumb idea. The only reason Porsche still puts the engine in the back is because people with a lot of money want it there. Porsche tried to kill the 911 several times but the purists went crazy so they grudgingly kept it there while continuing to make it better. Right now it's an absolutely awesome car and there are droves of people writing checks for 80-210k to buy one. That's not saying that mid engine isn't better, it's just not what the people with the big cash want. It's not really the same thing with EBR at all. Porsche is not trying to sell a oddball idea as a good one, they are trying to make a goofy idea, that their customers insist remain, usable without killing everyone in a backwards fireball. Buell has his ideas that he won't let go but now he's in a field full of real players. I personally hope he does great. The more variety the better IMO.
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Jul 3, 2014 03:03
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People buying a 911 specifically buy it for being rear-engine and there are mid-engine cars out there that compete directly. The rear-engine layout and the legend that has been built up around it in the past few decades are a selling point unto themselves. Comparing Porsche to Buell/EBR is laughable. EBR is more like Noble in that it's the brainchild of one guy and pretty much built in a shed. Yes, a noble is just as quick as a Porsche or a Ferrari or what have you, but it's still fundamentally built in a shed (Ferraris are just built in a really expensive shed ).clutchpuck posted:Those ducts are NASCAR-inspired. Are they really fragile? From the poking I did on the dealer floor model, they seem tough enough for their role of directing air but I'll admit that I haven't actually dropped one onto the duct. I don't really see how fragility matters regardless; they aren't intended as load-bearing or as a crash structure. It's like saying ducati mirrors are fragile or something, makes no sense. Practically everything on a bike is 'fragile' if you drop it the right way. The key is to not drop it.
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Jul 3, 2014 04:17
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That's what I was getting at. I don't see a situation where the duct would break except for crashing the bike, at which point I think the duct would be the least of your worries.
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Jul 3, 2014 16:47
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Suzuki are belatedly listening to my advice () and building a naked gixxer thousand. In a fearless assault on innovation, they're looking to out-mediocre even Honda. It gets the usual features like a detuned engine, shittier suspension and ugly mirrors. Behold: The only thing I can see recommending it is that it appears to be an actual GSXR frame instead of a heavy steel jobbie like the other Japanese nakeds, so it should live up to the 'lighter without the fairings' mythos. Also it surely won't be too difficult to swap in a full power lump.
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Jul 3, 2014 23:22
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Jesus you're right about those mirrors. Why doesn't everybody source them from where Aprilia gets their nakedbike mirrors? Those mirrors are best mirrors. Maybe if folks are lucky it'll be a ECM flash away from full power.
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Jul 3, 2014 23:26
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Looks like it has ABS and maybe TC. That would be a first for GSXR wouldnt it? That's the most exciting thing about that.
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Jul 3, 2014 23:45
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Idk that thing looks like it could turn out decent to me - I'd prefer a different paint scheme though. Probably gonna cost $$$ but with new/no mirrors, a new exhaust, etc it'll probably look pretty legit. I like the inclusion of ABS and the brembos up front. I do not like the rear seat. I love that my FZ1 has a giant rear end back seat. It makes riding with the girlfriend so much more comfortable for both of us. Not a big fan of the lower fairing and the look of that radiator though. I can't really pinpoint what's off about it but it almost looks like the top and bottom of the bike are pasted together from two different bikes. That or the perspective is off or something - the proportions look kind of weird the more I look at it. Am I going insane?
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Jul 3, 2014 23:49
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It's their budget effort to try to style away the gixxer's trademark 'gigantic bulging frame around the cylinder head' design. Also trying to tee into the equally depressing GSR750's styling apparently.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:18
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gently caress the haters, that thing looks rad. Spiffness posted:Looks like it has ABS and maybe TC. That would be a first for GSXR wouldnt it? This too, though.
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Jul 4, 2014 04:51
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| # ? May 22, 2024 11:58 |
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Z3n posted:gently caress the haters, that thing looks rad. Yeah, it looks really nice. Kinda classy, unlike your standard gixxah-bro-bike.
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Jul 4, 2014 04:59
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