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This guy is has pretty much the best Feminist Frequency "rebuttal" series that I've found. His stuff is pretty long winded and kind of dull, but they're fair rebuttles of the videos themselves and the problematic nature of some of her arguments. There's also a couple of videos where he goes over just how stupid the backlash she recieved is, and he takes down several of the more popular anti-femfreq videos (these are, of course, the ones with the most dislikes.) Edit: Fixed typos. prahanormal fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Jul 5, 2014 |
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Jul 5, 2014 15:22
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There's something about how bland and flat his voice is that makes me want to go to sleep. That's not an insult honestly, it legitimately seems like a nice thing to zone out and pass out to.
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Jul 5, 2014 15:36
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Since we're discussing it I just wanna say that as a dumb guy I really appreciate Feminist Frequency. Honestly I'd never really thought about sexism and other prejudice in video games before, unless it was really blatant, so for me watching tropes vs women was a bit of an eye opener. Anita and her videos are dope!
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Jul 5, 2014 16:47
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Tubby McFatass posted:Since we're discussing it I just wanna say that as a dumb guy I really appreciate Feminist Frequency. Honestly I'd never really thought about sexism and other prejudice in video games before, unless it was really blatant, so for me watching tropes vs women was a bit of an eye opener. Anita and her videos are dope! Oh man this is the most depressing thing said in this thread.
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Jul 5, 2014 16:51
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Mad Lupine posted:Oh man this is the most depressing thing said in this thread. I dunno, I think it's kinda neat that at least folk are like "Oh! I'll be a bit more critical about these things I dig".
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Jul 5, 2014 16:54
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As pathetic as it is to hear that someone was so up their own rear end they couldn't look at video games critically before Anita Sarkeesian of all the tools in the world showed them the light, I suppose that is the best silver lining that could possibly come out of the whole Tropes vs. Women debacle.
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Jul 5, 2014 16:57
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Even though Feminist Frequency covers super basic stuff and hasn't really delivered on much promise given the amount of money she received, I still fully support her just because making MRA's frothing mad makes me happy. Hell, the fact that her videos cover such low-level poo poo and still gets this response from people just makes the videos better.
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Jul 5, 2014 17:04
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Feminist Frequency is Feminism 101 but so many people are exceedingly uninformed in that regard (which is depressing) that it actually is useful for some people.
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Jul 5, 2014 17:07
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Like it has been said, the trouble with discussing Anita's videos is that all it takes is some irrational shmuck to derail the entire conversation, whether it be part of the pro or anti camp. The best videos that criticize her work are the ones that attack the way she makes her argument, not the subject matter. Even that video from the turd Thunderf00t brought up that she doesn't cite her sources at all, which is a major thing if you're trying to discuss facts or studies. Having something to back them up goes a long way of lending credence to it otherwise it just looks like you're pull statistics out of your butt to fit your narrative.
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Jul 5, 2014 17:10
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Since the FemFreq conversation didn't die yet, I'll weigh in. I really don't get the critcism of Anita's video that her content is "Feminism 101" as if it's a bad thing. She's making the videos she promised to make, and people are expecting some sort long, nuanced analysis or video games' gameplay, plot, or structures in regards to gender politics as if video games were otherwise masterpieces. The plot and world in games like GTA scream "I'm a freshman political science major and/or middle school student who just realized politicians and mainstream pop culture are so phony. The American Dream is deeeeaaaaad. WHAAA!" She's absolutely right to explicitly call out games for using the pervasiveness of sex workers as a shortcut to make the shallowly constructed world feel more edgy, gritty, and textured. Star Wars was able to create "a hive of scum and villainy" without putting pole dancers into every shot of the Mos Eisley Cantina, and audiences bought it. Games need to get a better excuse... or change. My main issue is FemFreq (since well before Tropes vs. Women in Games), is that Anita often doesn't go far enough with her criticism. Like we said before, this is basic "treat women decently" stuff we're dealing it, and the videos often downplay the cynicism even though it's obvious the people making games and movies aren't stupid and know exactly what they're doing. She constantly frames her issues as "constructive criticism... you can like problematic things", though I almost wish she'd for once actually tell people to not buy a game or not see a movie. Granted, she goes out of her way to say she's not out to destroy videogames, but that wasn't enough for her to get the gamers.txt backlash. When you're establishing a brand, it's very easy to keep dialing it up and up (look at all the social justice trainwrecks SA mocks); the fact that she chooses to disappear for weeks at a time to work on her project rather constantly remind people on social media that she exists and everything is terrible is probably an act of composure. Echo Chamber fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Jul 5, 2014 |
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Jul 5, 2014 18:08
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To be honest "Be Mockable By Something Awful" isn't a very good reference of judgement, specially on a thread where part of criticism presented in general was met with "Man, people are being so negative about things, much like goons, the cute monnicker people chose to refer to folk that post on this forum".
Kunster fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jul 5, 2014 |
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Jul 5, 2014 18:18
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Anyway, here's my new Sonichu review.
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Jul 5, 2014 22:02
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Echo Chamber posted:She constantly frames her issues as "constructive criticism... you can like problematic things", though I almost wish she'd for once actually tell people to not buy a game or not see a movie. Or maybe I'm wrong. I'm always willing to grant that. Mostly, for me, using "problematic" to the extent it's used comes off as overly euphemistic for such extreme social issues, and it rings in my mind as if it's being uttered by Bill Lumbergh. Disclaimer: I have nothing to say about Anita Sarkeesian. I've watched none of her videos, think the reaction against her is a horrible blight on gaming fandom, and am content just watching the commentary on message boards.
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Jul 6, 2014 02:38
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I have a spoiler for you, it's because people already lose their poo poo and act as if people like her literally want to ban video games when they say 'it's a little lovely that the only game in the vast Mario universe staring Peach uses her emotions as weapons like every female stereotype ever but whatever if you like the game that's fine' that the bullshit 'problematic' started. Maybe if people weren't such weeping manbabies about their media it wouldn't be so common.
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Jul 6, 2014 02:49
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quakster posted:I'm not sure the Double Dragon games's stories are good for any argument, some of them start with Marian getting killed. But she is brought back to life by angels in DD2: The Revenge because... reasons!
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Jul 6, 2014 03:38
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It's annoying when so much of the Anita Sarkeesian criticism miscontrues her position in that way, really - that she wants to destroy video games or whatever. Something that is refuted by the first line of basically all of her videos where she basically says "you can still have fun with and appreciate something whilst criticising parts of it, you know". It's kind of weird to look at social context and that purely in the world of video games, but Anita Sarkeesian was kind of a perfect storm, in so many ways. The thing that always struck me when watching the original Kickstarter video - the one so many people raged about - was how benign it actually was. The way people were going on it was like she was some kind of new Jack Thompson, hell bent on destroying video games...but it so clearly wasn't - all she did was state her intention to make a video series regarding sexism in video games. There was nothing confrontational about it - hell, it wasn't even the first time she'd done such a series, and the previous series didn't get nearly that level of reaction...it wouldn't even be the first time that year that there'd been mass outrage over something a woman in video games said - remember Jennifer Hepler? That whole thing was only a couple of months before TvW, and it was just as vicious - Hepler ultimately left her job because of it, even. But so many different things just worked together - the Kickstarter platform especially was all the rage, and was a way for people to show that they agreed with what she was doing. And because of that, it kind of felt that the reaction to Anita Sarkeesian was the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of people. There was also a lot of other items that dovetailed nicely with it, where sexism was clearly on display - the Tomb Raider trailer where it looked like Lara was threatened with rape (and the pretty terrible explanation of said trailer), the Hitman: Absolution trailer with the big breasted scantily clad nuns...these got pilloried because our general awareness increased, and people were actually thinking about these things. If TvW in VG never happens, do those trailers get the same level of criticism? Do we get the people who strive for more equal representation in this industry? Hell, does something like say, #1reasonwhy happen without Tropes vs. Women in Video Games? I dunno really. The reaction to TvW, and also the reaction TO the reaction, did a lot to convince people that they weren't alone in all of this And so she is kind of like this golden child in a way - a shining light of video game criticism from minority/feminist perspectives, which is kind of strange for someone who isn't even specifically a video game critic - she's much more generalist, and deals with media as a whole - feminism 101 shouldn't be a criticism because that's largely what she's ALWAYS done, well before everything blew up. This approach may well do her a disservice - maybe not quite as much as those who still paint her as some kind of devil woman, but it's still not the full picture. Is she the perfect shining light, the ultimate flagbearer that everyone can get behind? No - she errs, like everyone else - sometimes severely. But I would challenge anyone to show me ANY person who could fit into such a role perfectly. In the end, through both her idea, the reaction to that from both sides, and of course by being in the right place at the right time, she's taking that role. And her work certainly has value
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Jul 6, 2014 03:43
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I have a spoiler for you, it's because people already lose their poo poo and act as if people like her literally want to ban video games when they say 'it's a little lovely that the only game in the vast Mario universe staring Peach uses her emotions as weapons like every female stereotype ever but whatever if you like the game that's fine' that the bullshit 'problematic' started. Maybe if people weren't such weeping manbabies about their media it wouldn't be so common.
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Jul 6, 2014 04:29
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Elmyr posted:Is she the perfect shining light, the ultimate flagbearer that everyone can get behind? No - she errs, like everyone else - sometimes severely. But I would challenge anyone to show me ANY person who could fit into such a role perfectly. In the end, through both her idea, the reaction to that from both sides, and of course by being in the right place at the right time, she's taking that role. And her work certainly has value I think this is pretty spot on. Sarkeesian has a bit of a problem in that, since she's trying to be entertaining, and entertaining to her core audience (feminists who roughly agree with her school of feminism), she can be extremely irritating. This is, of course, not unique to her. It's true of any critic trying to be entertaining and levy serious criticism of something you enjoy. I'm sure people who really hate feminism view her the way most liberals view, say, Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck. I don't watch much Feminist Frequency, but when I do I spend different parts flipping between thinking she's right loving spot on and brilliant and thinking she's being grossly obnoxious and unfair. It comes with the territory of tackling sensitive issues while trying to be witty about it. The same thing happens with anybody I watch who does that. I don't think the giant internet feminism rift has helped either. I don't mean the feminist/MRA nonsense, I mean the feminists who are at each others' throats because the other school are clearly closet misogynists because they don't agree with whatever silly issue your school agrees with. It's toxic and can color her commentary, because if you don't agree you can kneejerk and think she's calling you a woman-hater when she never actually said any such thing; and as far as I know, Sarkeesian, specifically, doesn't have a reputation for doing that. To be totally fair, "Tropes vs Women" is perhaps a little bit of a dramatic, clickbaity title, but given that getting those hits sort of fuels her income I can't really blame her. Actually watching her videos I don't get the impression that she actually agrees with the title on any more than a vague symbolic level. She's definitely not one of those apocalyptic uber rad-fems you'll find on Tumblr who thinks we're one step away from locking women in cages and selling them for breeding rights or anything. That said, I doubt any of the people sending her rape and death threats actually watched anything of hers, and if they did, they were probably already so engulfed in the anti-feminist Kool-Aid that all they heard was "feminism feminism femi femi feminism" over and over while they quietly seethed in front of the screen, finger hovering over the "send" button on the email they drafted before the video even started playing. FlamingLiberal posted:I haven't seen these videos, but I would hope she would discuss the fact that those Mario games are primarily made in Japan and the culture there is a lot more openly sexist in ways that we are generally uncomfortable with in the US today. I don't recall her mentioning it in Video Games vs Women specifically, but she's definitely aware of it (note: that's a reupload, it looks like she took it down from her channel; ignore the snarky annotations). Outside that absolutely wtf-level horrid advertising campaign, I think Bayonetta is a bit more of a thorny issue than she gives it credit for, but given that the game wasn't the focus of that video I can see why she glided over it. Edit: As to the "it's only Feminism 101" thing. Yeah, true, but even if I'd noticed almost everything she's said already, sometimes I prefer Feminism 101 to the opposite: "IF YOU DON'T KNOW IT'S NOT MY JOB TO TEACH YOU WHY" style feminism. At least she tries to explain why the things she sees as wrong are wrong. Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Jul 6, 2014 |
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Jul 6, 2014 12:15
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It's also refreshing that Anita doesn't take the "you'll never understand as a straight white cis male" attitude I've seen from a lot of feminists (trans or not) online. Some of them really seem to think it's impossible for the privileged to have empathy.
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Jul 6, 2014 13:18
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To be honest when you get poo poo like the mainstream Gender and Sexual Minority community going on how Ru Paul should be the definite voice on transgender issues or it or Dan Savage to talk about everyone leading to poo poo like him typing a big gently caress off article on how black people should be beaten up for allowing Prop 8 to go while Obama was being elected and for all around throwing a lot of segments of underprivileged population under the bus in general, or endorsing SPLC-monitored organizations just to quash some minority person that happened to be inconvenient, their disgust tends to be somewhat justified or at least worth of consideration the next time one reads an article on Guardian telling black women to stop being black or stop being women since their existence is too complex for a mere mortal to understand. Jeremy Parish, who's doing GameBoy World, which was partly inspired by Chrontendo, did a really good video about the Original Gameboy Unit a few days ago! Kunster fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Jul 6, 2014 |
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Jul 6, 2014 14:54
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You just wrote a ten thousand word long run on sentence.
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Jul 6, 2014 21:52
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Mokinokaro posted:it's impossible for the privileged to have empathy. 
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Jul 7, 2014 06:41
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Mokinokaro posted:It's also refreshing that Anita doesn't take the "you'll never understand as a straight white cis male" attitude I've seen from a lot of feminists (trans or not) online. Some of them really seem to think it's impossible for the privileged to have empathy. You can't speak on a topic unless it affects you directly. It's true!
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Jul 7, 2014 08:59
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I get the point. It still gets hosed up when folk that don't face those experiences directly get higher billing than those that do and usually get bigger perceived authority, to the point when they gently caress up somewhere and get criticized, no matter the tone the criticism was of, get horribly attacked over it! And it's something that shouldn't happen as much, specially by internet critics that bang their drum of "look at me I'm sort of socially conscious about poo poo!"
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Jul 7, 2014 09:33
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Oh god, Chris made music? That's...beyond abominable. Excellent review. It's always great to hear the background information, and I don't have to wade into the mire myself - you'll do it for me! Skunny Wundy posted:did Doug really make a "Top 10 Hottest Women" video please tell me that video is hiding something and swerves in some cool direction I saw the title for that, and felt depressed. Before I started reviewing, I decided that no one needed to know who I wanted to have sex with, or how attractive I found characters from whatever I was reviewing, as said information is irrelevant. It's only really relevant if, say, a character is being portrayed as if they were hideous, and they're really not, and/or if a character is being portrayed as the hottest person in the world, and they're not and/or they've got such a repellant personality that the claim is ludicrous. Mokinokaro posted:It's also refreshing that Anita doesn't take the "you'll never understand as a straight white cis male" attitude I've seen from a lot of feminists (trans or not) online. Some of them really seem to think it's impossible for the privileged to have empathy. The problem with that attitude is that it essentially absolves people who aren't [minority in question] from even bothering to try and learn/empathise with people who aren't exactly like them.
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Jul 7, 2014 13:24
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http://www.gofundme.com/a8i4zs Josh Hadley has some money troubles.
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Jul 7, 2014 14:47
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Woundedronin posted:http://www.gofundme.com/a8i4zs And his icon is him flipping double birds to his donators.
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Jul 7, 2014 14:55
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And "blackballed" just makes people go investigate what the gently caress he did, something he talked about to an extent on one of his Lost In The Static episodes. Heeey at least he got 50% of his current goal so far. Kunster fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 14:57
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So who is he and what did he do because whenever I see 'blackballed from (entertainment industry of some kind)' I don't think it's ever been for anything but being a total poo poo unless he's a time traveller from the Red Scare days.
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Jul 7, 2014 20:46
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Tatum Girlparts posted:So who is he and what did he do because whenever I see 'blackballed from (entertainment industry of some kind)' I don't think it's ever been for anything but being a total poo poo unless he's a time traveller from the Red Scare days. Just ctrl f Josh Hadley on any given page in this thread. You'll find at least five terrible things he did within three minutes.
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Jul 7, 2014 20:53
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The best summation of Josh Hadley as a person is the fifth panel of this comic, if it is in response to him stating anything about most subjects in the world. Did his own thing with The Spoony One and The Cinema Snob. More well known for the folk on this thread by the latter, dude had stints writing articles regarding old movies and pop media. He got charged with a Sexual Harassment case while working at a tv studio. He talks about it to some extent on a few episodes of Lost In The Static. Check episode 9, I think that's the one where he talks about it. There's an episode where he almost drives his cohost to have an heart attack during a recording from screaming at him for saying that artists shouldn't sell their work (I think it's 42, the episode about Music), so him keeping an episode or two detailing the "blackbailing" seems right up with his usual pattern of not having foresight at all about anything. Kunster fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 20:57
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I'm not sure if this is worth mentioning but SFDebris did the Patreon thingy.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:15
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Only now am I realizing that every time somebody posted Josh Hadley in this thread, my brain interpreted it as Jake Norvell, and that they are not the same person.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:25
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It is, given the number of folk that love the guy that might want to throw money at the guy. Ever since I listened to this episode I was surprised that something that baffling wasn't covered by someone who did video review. Until Phelous decided to start covering Golden Films Beauty And The Beast. There's a good reason why one part is devoted to just the dad's storyline.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:28
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HGH posted:I'm not sure if this is worth mentioning but SFDebris did the Patreon thingy. Jeez, now there's someone who really needs a Patreon  Or a charity fundraiser. He and his family need help.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:46
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HGH posted:I'm not sure if this is worth mentioning but SFDebris did the Patreon thingy. SFDebris' Patreon page posted:[...] you can pick any one episode of a science fiction or fantasy show from the approved list" Gee, I wonder which awful anime brought the whole approved list thing on. 
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Jul 7, 2014 21:51
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I get the feeling that's how he did the unsavory anime episodes before. Some guy got to that Patreon level and there ya go.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:16
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My signed Space Cop poster came in the mail today!  
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Jul 8, 2014 05:29
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqXekDR7xHk The Movieblob overthinks some E3 trailers... Where he basically talks to himself for 15 minutes as usual. At this point I'm just watching him just to laugh at his horrible opinions.
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Jul 8, 2014 12:58
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How the hell could this guy seem so relatively reasonable on movies yet so wildly insane on vidya gaymes?
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Jul 8, 2014 13:57
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