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It's supposedly been said that Korra is going to be short even for a Platinum game, so don't expect something long. I think the same thing said that the last boss is pure Platinum though, so get hyped. I can't link a source because I just saw it on /v/ a couple of days ago, so a pinch of salt required perhaps.
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Jul 9, 2014 11:10
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"Even for a Platinum game"? Platinum games are really long for the genre, maybe even too long.
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Jul 9, 2014 11:14
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They're about average length really. I'd consider DmC to be too long. Korra though has been rumored to be around 4-6 hours long. Which is fine as long as the gameplay is good.
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Jul 9, 2014 11:24
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:"Even for a Platinum game"? Platinum games are really long for the genre, maybe even too long. It depends. Bayonetta and The Wonderful 101 are much longer than the original Devil May Cry games, but MadWorld, Vanquish, and Metal Gear Rising are considered quite short, although I found the latter two very replayable.
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Jul 9, 2014 11:56
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:"Even for a Platinum game"? Platinum games are really long for the genre, maybe even too long. Vanquish and MGR were notoriously short, even if that reputation was undeserved in the case of MGR.
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Jul 9, 2014 12:34
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Aurain posted:It's supposedly been said that Korra is going to be short even for a Platinum game, so don't expect something long. I think the same thing said that the last boss is pure Platinum though, so get hyped. I think they've already said it's going to be a 3 hour job (with MGR being a 4 hour job, by this measure) for $15. Which I am fine with - the game obviously had a short dev cycle with a reduced team, as it's being produced on a budget.
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Jul 9, 2014 12:56
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MGR is short in length, but it helps that every inch of it is finely polished and they threw in enough VR missions to expand game value exponentially. also when are we gonna get an MGR sequel
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Jul 9, 2014 13:30
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Platinum have more on their plate than ever, who knows when they'll have time.
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Jul 9, 2014 14:45
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Kojima was supposedly down at Platinum's Studios, or at least talking to important PG staff during E3 and the surrounding weeks. Bayonetta 2 development will be ending sooner rather than later because of its October release. That's freeing up a team and perhaps we'll get some news of a Rising 2 in the new year due to that? Regardless, the answer to that question is not soon enough.
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Jul 9, 2014 14:48
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Kojima seems to make periodic visits to Platinum's offices, he made one last year around the same time as well.
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Jul 9, 2014 15:00
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DiscoMouse posted:Platinum have more on their plate than ever, who knows when they'll have time. What? Bayonetta and Korra will be out in give/take 3 months and they'll only have How To Train Your Devil May Cry, as far as announced stuff goes. Kinda wondering if this Korra thing turns out well if we'll see a TMNT game from Platinum. Nick/Viacom do own that IP now...
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Jul 9, 2014 15:09
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Kojima, Kamiya, Suda 51 and Shinji Mikami all get along really well I think. Didn't they all host that game nightclub conference thing every year for a little bit in Japan? Hopper's IIRC (though I forget if it was held at Hopper's itself or if this name just sounded cool to Suda 51, No More Heroes 2 has a "Hopper's Edition" in Japan...).
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Jul 9, 2014 15:10
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OnimaruXLR posted:What? Bayonetta and Korra will be out in give/take 3 months and they'll only have How To Train Your Devil May Cry, as far as announced stuff goes. Still, three games, and the A team working on a big Xbone exclusive.
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Jul 9, 2014 15:13
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Aurain posted:
Then it's time to start working on Bayonetta 3 obviously 
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Jul 9, 2014 18:06
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BottledBodhisvata posted:MGR is short in length, but it helps that every inch of it is finely polished and they threw in enough VR missions to expand game value exponentially. I love MGR as much as anybody but saying that every inch is polished is ridiculous. Its more like an average looking car with an extremely finely tuned motor and suspension. It performs where it counts.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:54
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DiscoMouse posted:Still, three games, and the A team working on a big Xbone exclusive. Good then they might be too busy to add dumb poo poo that ruins the game. notZaar posted:I love MGR as much as anybody but saying that every inch is polished is ridiculous. Its more like an average looking car with an extremely finely tuned motor and suspension. It performs where it counts. Has any Platinum game been polished? the ones I've played seemed like they ran out of budget before they even reached that step of development. Hel fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jul 9, 2014 |
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Jul 9, 2014 19:44
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Hel posted:Has any Platinum game been polished? the ones I've played seemed like they ran out of budget before they even reached that state. Bayonetta and Wonderful 101 are both polished as poo poo. Bayonetta had a lovely PS3 port but that wasn't on Platinum.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:46
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ImpAtom posted:Bayonetta and Wonderful 101 are both polished as poo poo. Bayonetta had a lovely PS3 port but that wasn't on Platinum. From what little I've seen of W101 through Chip's LP you might be right, but I doubt the lovely looping animations and some modes ignoring your camera control settings were exclusive to the PS3 version of Bayonetta.
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Jul 9, 2014 20:07
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You must have some high standards, because I can't recall either of those problems.
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Jul 9, 2014 22:33
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Hel posted:From what little I've seen of W101 through Chip's LP you might be right, but I doubt the lovely looping animations and some modes ignoring your camera control settings were exclusive to the PS3 version of Bayonetta. Elaborate.
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Jul 9, 2014 22:34
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Bayonetta is extremely polished and brimming with extra features that most publishers will gouge you as DLC these days.
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Jul 10, 2014 00:23
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Elaborate. Angel attack always uses non-inverted aiming, instead of basing it on your camera controls, not an issue if you happen to use the normal camera controls but really bad if you use inverted. A lot of the "cutscenes" are just voice clips overlayed over a looping animation of hair/clothing flapping in the wind and it looks really bad when it jumps back to the start of the animation, now that might be intentional because of the film reels but I subscribe to the idea that intentionally bad is still bad. It would have looked better without any animation at all also fitting the single frame of a film reel better. notZaar posted:Bayonetta is extremely polished and brimming with extra features that most publishers will gouge you as DLC these days. I agree that the main combat system is pretty polished but outside of that and the fanservice cutscenes I don't find the game that polished and outside of all the outfits and maybe the portals I don't see what other companies would have split off as DLC. Maybe I just think of polish as something different, for me it's stuff that's not vital but makes everything run smoother/look better or just quality of life things like being able to leave menu screens with the back button and having consistent controls scheme over different modes or even having controls that can't easily be misinterpreted by the game.
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Jul 10, 2014 11:08
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So what would you call a polished game. I'm curious? Bayonetta is an extremely polished game. You may not like the cutscenes but they are an intentional design decision and that does not mean they are unpolished. There are minor flaws but that applies to literally every single game. When your complaints are about the cutscenes being stylized in a way you dislike or a minor control glitch with an unimportant minigame, most people would not consider that unpolished. You're not wrong in your definition of polished but you're applying it in such a narrow way that it becomes effectively meaningless. I can't think of a single game out there which would qualify as polished under your definition. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 11:13
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A game that is so goddamn shiny that I can see my reflection on Bayonetta's rear end. At least that's my personal interpretation, even if Bayonetta isn't even in the game in question.
Level Slide fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 11:26
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The angel attack controls not being inverted is your biggest issue?  The cutscenes I will grant you, I personally love the style but I can see why many people would prefer the standard fully animated ones. (trivia: that was originally the plan. Halfway through development, they realized doing the 2 hours or so of cutscenes fully animated would put them over schedule and raise the costs unacceptably so they opted for this movie stills style instead. But as it turns out it ended up costing them even more than what the original plan would  (they still saved on time though))
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Jul 10, 2014 11:29
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ImpAtom posted:So what would you call a polished game. I'm curious? Most(all?) of the games I play/like are pretty unpolished/really flawed since polishing something good requires huge effort or a really small scope, though Valve seems pretty good at polishing their games, the their design isn't my really my thing. IIRC Bastion was pretty ok, so were the mainline MGS games. Removing minor flaws is what I would call polishing, The main game(combat,space harrier etc.) is pretty polished, but the game as a whole is not, if I'm allowed to make that distinction , maybe I just don't see the reason to add stuff if you can't make them good or maybe I am actually overly negative of platinum(probably true). Mr. Neutron posted:The angel attack controls not being inverted is your biggest issue? No, polish stuff is a minor issue, if non-inverted controls was the biggest issue I would probably be the biggest Bayonetta fan in the world. I have lot's of big issues with Bayonetta but those are design stuff which is not what we are talking about. I would have preferred still picture backgrounds to what is in the game but I know that would pretty much have had people rioting in this day and age. Hel fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 11:52
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Golden Goat posted:I'd figure this would be better then Anarchy Reigns at least. Anarchy Reigns had the best soundtrack 
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Jul 10, 2014 11:56
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Hel posted:Most(all?) of the games I play/like are pretty unpolished/really flawed since polishing something good requires huge effort or a really small scope, though Valve seems pretty good at polishing their games, the their design isn't my really my thing. IIRC Bastion was pretty ok, so were the mainline MGS games. I love Bastion but it has a number of minor flaws. Some were patched out after release and some are still present in the game, including glitches, weird design decisions, and so-on. The very first time I went through Bastion the ending glitches so that everyone kept firing at me nonstop while I was invincible during the big climactic moment of the story, Valve games have a ton of polish issues. There are tons of places in Half-Life 2 you can clip through walls or which are just badly designed (airboat segment) or so-on. The Speedrun of HL2 does for the recent marathon in fact spent a good chunk of its time making (good-natured) fun of all the little unpolished areas in the game. As far as the mainline MGS games go, I'm pretty sure anyone on the planet could tell you all the ways those are wonky. They have lots of little details and a lot of polish, mind you, but they're far from flawless. You're perfectly allowed to point out the difference between the main game being polished and the side content being unpolished but in this case you've not done a very good job presenting the idea that Bayonetta is a particularly unpolished game. If you genuinely dislike the game, that is fine, but I do think you're holding it to a standard you wouldn't hold other games to in this case. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 11:58
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ImpAtom posted:I love Bastion but it has a number of minor flaws. Some were patched out after release and some are still present in the game, including glitches, weird design decisions, and so-on. The very first time I went through Bastion the ending glitches so that everyone kept firing at me nonstop while I was invincible during the big climactic moment of the story, Then I've been very lucky(or just forgot since it's been a while since I've played them, and probably making some kinda of unconscious decision between which kinda of bugs count as unpolished or not, fun bugs/behavior is not.), though I still separate bad design from unpolished. And yeah looking back I've been very bad at writing what I mean, but I don't actually dislike Bayonetta, if I did I would have just not talked about it (making me the opposite of pretty much all the internet) it's just the from my point of view platinum does a lot right and then at the end just do a full 180 with some dumb idea which just makes me frustrated and probably makes me judge them harder since they were so close. But I also get irrationally angry at not allowing inverted camera since it's such an easy fix, they should stop discriminating against right thinking people 
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Jul 10, 2014 12:23
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Hel posted:Then I've been very lucky(or just forgot since it's been a while since I've played them, and probably making some kinda of unconscious decision between which kinda of bugs count as unpolished or not, fun bugs/behavior is not.), though I still separate bad design from unpolished. Well, even at their best Platinum totally has like 90% great ideas and then 10% really dumb ideas, don't get me wrong. The Space Harrier segment in Bayonetta is like pure unfiltered frustration not because it is bad but because I don't want to be playing Space Harrier when I could be fighting Jeanne. I guess I'm just saying that's still a higher level of refined good ideas than a lot of things have! Of course it's also pretty understandable for it to be extra frustrating when it's a near-thing instead of not even in the ballpark because a near-thing is a lot easier to imagine fixed.
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Jul 10, 2014 12:26
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Anarchy Reigns had the best soundtrack The best soundtrack of all the platinum games. The gameplay though was poor and it was really showing that they had an insanely small budget to work off.
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Jul 10, 2014 12:29
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Hel posted:
Two extra playable characters, a ton of alternate costumes with several variation, and even the Bloody Palace style gauntlet level are all the types of things that most publishers will release as paid DLC.
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Jul 10, 2014 12:32
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Anarchy Reigns' single player was enjoyable enough, but not good. It would probably have been pretty cool online if you could have gotten a game at any point. You couldn't actually find a game with any kind of consistency though, so yeah.
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Jul 10, 2014 12:34
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ImpAtom posted:Well, even at their best Platinum totally has like 90% great ideas and then 10% really dumb ideas, don't get me wrong. The Space Harrier segment in Bayonetta is like pure unfiltered frustration not because it is bad but because I don't want to be playing Space Harrier when I could be fighting Jeanne. I guess I'm just saying that's still a higher level of refined good ideas than a lot of things have! Of course it's also pretty understandable for it to be extra frustrating when it's a near-thing instead of not even in the ballpark because a near-thing is a lot easier to imagine fixed. One simple polish thing that would have really made Bayo better is putting a restart level button in the pause/death menu so you don't have to go trough all the extra loading screens. But I'm gonna stop here because I have a few hours before work and this discussion made me fire up the game.
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Jul 10, 2014 12:34
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Hel posted:One simple polish thing that would have really made Bayo better is putting a restart level button in the pause/death menu so you don't have to go trough all the extra loading screens. But I'm gonna stop here because I have a few hours before work and this discussion made me fire up the game. Yeah, I did the same thing. 
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Jul 10, 2014 12:38
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I've been itching to replay Bayo lately but I'm saving it for the WiiU port.
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Jul 10, 2014 12:41
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Bayo 1 has some derpy UI decisions but it's basically polished as poo poo. An easy way to tell this is that they were effectively content and feature complete a YEAR before the game was released...
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Jul 10, 2014 12:44
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SurrealityCheck posted:Bayo 1 has some derpy UI decisions but it's basically polished as poo poo. An easy way to tell this is that they were effectively content and feature complete a YEAR before the game was released... Something that separates games like Bayonetta and Devil May Cry from God of War and DmC is that they are designed for expert players, rather than for people who will just play it once and put it down. While DmC is a lot better than most other Western games in this regard, there really isn't a lot more to learn about the combat system past your first playthrough. There's nothing really that bad about God of War's approach for most people, since a simple combat system and spectacle might be more fun for a new player, but if you tried the game again on a harder difficulty you'd just find the game dragged down by unskippable cutscenes, platforming, puzzles, and enemies which just require you to alternate between blocking and light attacks until they die. One thing I prefer about how cutscenes are handled in games like Metal Gear Solid over Half Life is that you're able to skip them and experience nothing but the core gameplay. You're not forced to sit around (or jump up and down on their head) while listening to a character give the same exposition you've heard many times before. To me, a game is polished if it's just as fun, if not more so, every time you replay it.
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Jul 10, 2014 14:07
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The easiest way to put it is that in God of War style character action games, gameplay serves as a means to break up the story they tell. In Devil May Cry styled games, story serves as an excuse to change the environments/enemy set-ups you fight in or against and little more than that.
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Jul 10, 2014 14:14
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Aurain posted:The easiest way to put it is that in God of War style character action games, gameplay serves as a means to break up the story they tell. In Devil May Cry styled games, story serves as an excuse to change the environments/enemy set-ups you fight in or against and little more than that. I'm not so sure that's fair - the designers of God of War definitely intended the gameplay itself to be fun and interesting. But my impression is that Platinum have an extraordinarily skilled team of testers and the designers themselves are derived from the Japanese arcade scene of the 90s. This means they are all familiar with the idea of hard games that reward exploration and mastery, and are very happy with the conventions of fighting games in particular. God of War does have some depth - it is certainly possible to play it well/badly, and there will certainly be a few things that only a player who has put in 100 hours + will know. But it doesn't have entire new layers of the game that only pop into existence 200+ hours in, as bayo does. RE: Story - I don't think that Platinum discount story at all. In fact, they spend a HUGE amount of time constructing what they feel are well designed and interesting characters. Consider strange little things like Bayonetta misspelling her own name; this is meant to be a little character beat reward for decoding the in-universe alphabet, which emphasises their theme of Bayo being enthusiastic but the type of person who gets things slightly wrong (compare with the cherub dick-shooting scene, or some of her mangled non-sequitur comebacks). I feel like the perception of the story being "throwaway" in games like Bayo is simply that their storytelling sensibilities are very different to ours. They worked out the story stuff in Bayo in a lot of depth! So I would not so much pin this on a fundamental difference of approach to story and gameplay (or the primacy of one or the other) as much as Platinum having access to a different type of designer/tester and expectations of a different type of player.
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Jul 10, 2014 14:20
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