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I didn't mean that as a comment on the quality of what any of those games may or may not do well. Rather that's the focus of the games at the drawing board and it doesn't mean that they can't have great story and great gameplay.
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Jul 10, 2014 14:24
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That loving Sned posted:unskippable cutscenes, platforming, puzzles Aren't all of those in DMC/Bayonetta to some extent, depending on how you count the cutscenes that contain QTE's. Aurain posted:The easiest way to put it is that in God of War style character action games, gameplay serves as a means to break up the story they tell. In Devil May Cry styled games, story serves as an excuse to change the environments/enemy set-ups you fight in or against and little more than that. I'm not sure I agree with that distinction , sure I think there is a difference between DMC/Bayo and GoW/DmC but I think the difference is in that actual gameplay and not in how the story fits in. As seen in the earlier discussion I'm bad at writing what I think but I would probably say in that DMC rewards variation and skill with something other than just leaving you with more health for the next fight. How you kill something is more important than what you kill or how many.
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Jul 10, 2014 14:26
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The thing with God of War is that the developers have flat-out said that depth is not a priority for their combat systems. They're specifically designed as setpiece-focused, with the combat's primary goal being to not get in the way of the setpieces or to detract from the setpieces. They've put little emphasis in upgrading the combat because it really isn't a focus. They are really good at setpieces and that is where they put the bulk of their effort.
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Jul 10, 2014 14:29
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Bayonetta's opening segment being unskippable is the worst.
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Jul 10, 2014 14:30
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ImpAtom posted:The thing with God of War is that the developers have flat-out said that depth is not a priority for their combat systems. They're specifically designed as setpiece-focused, with the combat's primary goal being to not get in the way of the setpieces or to detract from the setpieces. They've put little emphasis in upgrading the combat because it really isn't a focus. They are really good at setpieces and that is where they put the bulk of their effort. The biggest reason I love Platinum Games is because they manage to do both. They do setpieces and combat design stupidly well, and often combine the two in interesting and fun ways, probably better than any other major developer currently. I was disappointed with DmC but it didn't bother me all that much because I knew Revengeance was around the corner and it'd scratch my itch until it bled. Another big difference between God of War-type games and Platinum/DMC games, I think, is the tone. God of War and a lot of games that emulate it take themselves very seriously, and expect you to sit down and keep thinking to yourself, "Oh man, that was so epic!" with each passing cutscene. There are some "funny" bits too, but generally you're supposed to root for Kratos as he murders an entire pantheon in his ridiculously long quest for revenge. It's not terrible I guess, but it's certainly less entertaining to me than how Platinum constructs their storylines. Platinum tends to create this crazy, impossible story just like God of War does, but they complement it with a level of goofiness. Their games don't typically take the story very seriously and every cutscene will have at least one insane, funny moment in it. The protagonists always seem to be having a ton of fun, and they even show off. It's ridiculous but it works because the gameplay matches this tone exactly (unless you gently caress up a lot). Granted, they don't always pull this off perfectly--those few cutscenes before and after the Father Balder fight in Bayonetta reeeeaaaally dragged, for example, though I did feel more invested in what was going on in those scenes than I did in any cutscene for God of War, so there's that I guess.
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Jul 10, 2014 15:07
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Beef Waifu posted:Bayonetta's opening segment being unskippable is the worst. Uh, the opening owns, and you only play it once.
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Jul 10, 2014 15:07
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DiscoMouse posted:Uh, the opening owns, and you only play it once. I'm actually going to have played it four times whenever Bayo 2 comes out and it's going to be every bit as aggravating there as it was the last two times. I want to play the loving game already, not listen to your deep-voiced narrator talk some story poo poo I don't care about while fighting enemies that don't matter.
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Jul 10, 2014 15:10
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I've got like a hundred hours in that game and I've seen it twice, the second time because I forgot what it was and selected it from the chapter menu, so I don't know how you managed that.
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Jul 10, 2014 15:12
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Beef Waifu posted:I'm actually going to have played it four times whenever Bayo 2 comes out and it's going to be every bit as aggravating there as it was the last two times. I want to play the loving game already, not listen to your deep-voiced narrator talk some story poo poo I don't care about while fighting enemies that don't matter. When you start a new game on the same file you don't have to play the prologue again. Unless you're just using new save files each time instead of advancing in difficulty as you go or something, which would be silly.
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Jul 10, 2014 15:20
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This is a bit of a tangent, but what always surprised me about God of War clones is how they'd steal everything, including mashing buttons to open doors, and the balance beam segments. The worst offenders are Dante's Inferno, as well as Sonic Unleashed, surprisingly. The balance beams were severely toned down in God of War II, and non-existent in III, so they realised that they weren't particularly fun. In Chains of Olympus, the first PSP game, they only had a single one in the entire game, which in the HD remake they give you a trophy for completing. However, Sonic Unleashed is packed with them, including ones with spikes on the side so you can't recover from a mistake or cheese your way past enemies by shimmying across. Button mashing to open doors is a way to prevent you from skipping past enemy encounters, but when you also have magical barriers which only disappear once the enemies have been defeated, there's no point to them. Bayonetta unfortunately takes some aspects of God of War which Devil May Cry 4 thankfully did not. The levels are mostly linear, and are seamlessly loaded rather than comprised of small rooms with loading screens. Cutscenes have quick-time events, which can ruin your ranking for a chapter as well as being pretty unforgiving. Enemies have finisher moves which require you to mash buttons really fast, which was even harder on the PS3 version since they didn't account for its pressure sensitive buttons. The problems Devil May Cry 4 had come down to the platforming and puzzle sections being awful, but are mostly absent in Dante's missions. The levels can be hard to navigate the first time, and unlike DMC1 there's no indicator on the map of where you need to go. Finally, there is a cutscene of a barrier appearing before many of the encounters in the game, as well as one of it disappearing afterwards, when there is no reason to stop the game to show you this. This is another holdover from the first game which was kept for some reason. The Souls series relies on minimal interruptions, partly because of the multiplayer, but also because it's often better game design.
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Jul 10, 2014 15:30
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That loving Sned posted:Bayonetta unfortunately takes some aspects of God of War which Devil May Cry 4 thankfully did not. The levels are mostly linear, and are seamlessly loaded rather than comprised of small rooms with loading screens. Cutscenes have quick-time events, which can ruin your ranking for a chapter as well as being pretty unforgiving. Enemies have finisher moves which require you to mash buttons really fast, which was even harder on the PS3 version since they didn't account for its pressure sensitive buttons. I've never actually failed the button mashing torture attacks, can you actually fail them or does she kill them anyway?
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Jul 10, 2014 15:43
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DiscoMouse posted:I've got like a hundred hours in that game and I've seen it twice, the second time because I forgot what it was and selected it from the chapter menu, so I don't know how you managed that. Yeah this, you don't need to play that chapter more than once unless you start a brand new game. Also that chapter, easy and inconsequantial as it may be, visually rocks rear end and man, that music  It sets the tone for the game perfectly. Golden Goat posted:I've never actually failed the button mashing torture attacks, can you actually fail them or does she kill them anyway? You can't fail them but the more buttonmashing you do, the bigger the damage and score. Torture attacks on the weaker angels kill them outright and mashing is only good for score. Mr. Neutron fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 15:55
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BlackFrost posted:When you start a new game on the same file you don't have to play the prologue again. Unless you're just using new save files each time instead of advancing in difficulty as you go or something, which would be silly. No, I mean there are two different occasions aside from my first playthrough where I had to start entirely new files (PS3 stolen and got a 360) and play that tired opening two more times. Now with the Wii U version I'm gonna have to do it again. Like you guys do know this game has copy protection, right? EDIT: Holy poo poo, did you two seriously not pick up the hint when I said "when Bayo 2 comes out" that I've had to start new files in the past? Captain Baal fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 15:55
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Ahahahaha bitching about a 5 minute sequence in a game you've played/are playing across 3 platformers. Shameful.
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Jul 10, 2014 15:59
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Bayonetta's biggest flaw is hiding the best boss fight behind Space Harrier, the worst bit of the game.
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Jul 10, 2014 16:01
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I really find it more of an annoyance hence the throwaway comment, but make a big deal about it if you want to I guess.Aurain posted:Bayonetta's biggest flaw is hiding the best boss fight behind Space Harrier, the worst bit of the game. It's a shame too given that section of the game has so much detail and stuff in it, but it's so boring and unfun to play. Thankfully they made it kind of better in W101, but these kind of gameplay shifts usually don't turn out well unless they've had like a lot of detail put into them. Then again No More Heroes had that shoot em up thing right in the middle of it and I could've sworn people loved that, so who knows. Captain Baal fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 16:07
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Similar for Route:666 - an initially cool section, which then drags to the point it becomes boring. Speaking of unwelcome mechanics, I hope Bayo 2's underwater bits aren't like DMC's underwater sections. I pray they aren't like DMC's underwater sections.
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Jul 10, 2014 16:10
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Beef Waifu posted:I really find it more of an annoyance hence the throwaway comment, but make a big deal about it if you want to I guess. Beef Waifu posted:Bayonetta's opening segment being unskippable is the worst. It's time to study up on an important concept called "phrasing"
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Jul 10, 2014 16:11
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Yo it's like I used hyperbole to make a thing seem like a bigger deal than it actually is.
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Jul 10, 2014 16:12
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Aurain posted:Bayonetta's biggest flaw is hiding the best boss fight behind Space Harrier, the worst bit of the game. Even Metal Gear Rising had one, but at least it was restricted to a short bit during the Sundowner fight instead of its own level.
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Jul 10, 2014 16:19
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...of SCIENCE! posted:Even Metal Gear Rising had one, but at least it was restricted to a short bit during the Sundowner fight instead of its own level. That short bit also lasts about as long as it takes to beat Sundowner.
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Jul 10, 2014 16:34
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Wonderful 101 has it the worst since there's several, it's stupid easy to die and mess up your scoring, AND it's absurdly long 
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Jul 10, 2014 16:47
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Pesky Splinter posted:Similar for Route:666 - an initially cool section, which then drags to the point it becomes boring. Route 666 takes awhile, but it's so cool and sweet and also rad, and it had car enemies and car enemies are neato. I also liked the Space Harrier.
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Jul 10, 2014 16:48
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Calaveron posted:Wonderful 101 has it the worst since there's several, it's stupid easy to die and mess up your scoring, AND it's absurdly long I would say the catharis of the last section of that level makes up for it, but it really doesn't especially when you have to try and platinum that stage.
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Jul 10, 2014 16:52
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I didn't mind Route 666 because of that scene where she hot-wires the bike.
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Jul 10, 2014 21:41
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if you wanna be big courage mcgee you can try driving on the other side of the road the whole way through
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Jul 10, 2014 22:07
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Aurain posted:Anarchy Reigns' single player was enjoyable enough, but not good. It would probably have been pretty cool online if you could have gotten a game at any point. You couldn't actually find a game with any kind of consistency though, so yeah. I am one of the fabled few who managed to play a bunch of Anarchy Reigns multiplayer before it died after like a week and can confirm it was rad as gently caress rip deathball
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Jul 10, 2014 23:19
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absolutely anything posted:I am one of the fabled few who managed to play a bunch of Anarchy Reigns multiplayer before it died after like a week and can confirm it was rad as gently caress The multiplayer demo had a longer shelf life than the game itself, which is pretty ridiculous. I knew that game was gonna die off but I didn't think it would happen so fast. 
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Jul 11, 2014 00:24
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Beef Waifu posted:No, I mean there are two different occasions aside from my first playthrough where I had to start entirely new files (PS3 stolen and got a 360) and play that tired opening two more times. Now with the Wii U version I'm gonna have to do it again. Like you guys do know this game has copy protection, right? Ah, I read your post as "I'll have to play it four times when Bayo 2 comes out" which made me think you anticipated playing it with each difficulty increase. My bad, yo. Also I don't mind the Space Harrier level all that much but if it were like half as long and wasn't placed before the best boss in the game it'd be infinitely more tolerable. That last fight with Temperantia itself just takes way too long, even if you mash both shooting buttons at once to fire faster. That stage is the only level I've never bothered to get a Platinum Medal for because I'm really loving bad at Space Harrier apparently. It's weird, because I typically love shoot-em-up games and rail shooters. But hey, the presentation of it is pretty rad. Also, I dig the music.
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Jul 11, 2014 04:01
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I've never played any of the DMC games and I'd like to change that. Are the HD ports of the first three games any good? I've read that they're pretty barebones like the Resi4 HD port for consoles, but it's not like they're introducing a bunch of new technical issues like the ZoE and Silent Hill collections did, right?
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Jul 13, 2014 17:11
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Rumours of a PS4/Bone version of DmC going around. The HD port no one asked for, for a game no one asked for.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:15
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They are barebones in the sense they're just the original games without any extras, but they work great with smooth framerates. If you played games like Bayonetta or MGR then it may be difficult to play these older style games, but they are still fun. The original DMC especially is half Resident Evil, there's a lot of downtime spent running around and putting keys in doors.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:16
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John Luebke posted:I've never played any of the DMC games and I'd like to change that. Are the HD ports of the first three games any good? I've read that they're pretty barebones like the Resi4 HD port for consoles, but it's not like they're introducing a bunch of new technical issues like the ZoE and Silent Hill collections did, right? They're perfectly serviceable, and the only change besides 720p and widescreen support was having the control scheme in DMC1 changed to be more like the later games. I would have loved to have the mission select from the later games, where each save file lets you play from any mission you've completed on any difficulty, rather than keeping lots of save files for your favourite missions.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:26
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Wasn't there one boss in the first game that had their some attacks become invisible due to some graphical effects not firing in the remake? Also as the resident DMC2 apologist I'll say try it, but as soon as it starts to feel boring/tedious(probably around Jokatgulm at the latest) just stop and move on to the next game, it's set after the other games so none of it is important for understanding 3&4's plot and while it has some interesting ideas most of those are better implemented in the sequels. If you just want to try out the series I'd probably recommend either 3 or 4 since by then they lost a lot of the survival horror mechanics and spiced up the combat mechanics a bit, though they still have some bullshit puzzles/platforming. BTW what is so bad about the PC version of DMC 3?, I apparently have it one steam but I've never tried that version.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:37
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Hel posted:BTW what is so bad about the PC version of DMC 3?, I apparently have it one steam but I've never tried that version. It runs bad and doesn't look very good. If you're using a 360 controller, the sticks are swapped (though there is a fix available for that). At least it doesn't crash.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:43
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DMC3 just straight up doesn't run on my Windows 7 install. It crashes on startup. As if that wasn't bad enough, when it does work it has horrendous performance (to the point where you get a better framerate by running the PS2 DVD through an emulator) and god awful controller support.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:46
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Ok, no need to try it out then.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:59
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Aurain posted:Rumours of a PS4/Bone version of DmC going around. Really? In what universe is that a good idea? The game sold like poo poo and the fans nearly universally rejected it...
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Jul 13, 2014 18:27
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Mr. Neutron posted:Really? In what universe is that a good idea? The game sold like poo poo and the fans nearly universally rejected it... Isn't it Unreal engine or something? it might cost them roughly $0 to make it run on the XBONE & PS4, so if they already have better textures/models from the PC version or just left over from production they could just port it for cheap, add the DLC and sell it as a GOTY edition for the new consoles to squeeze some extra money out of it since there aren't that many games for them yet.
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Jul 13, 2014 18:54
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It will definitely cost SOMETHING, if nothing else just the price of putting it in the stores and advertising etc... Considering how poorly it sold with the initial hype push, it's hard to imagine how it could possibly be worth it.
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Jul 13, 2014 19:56
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