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Maybe pixar movies have gotten a bit worse, but Disney movies have gotten better, so it's not like the animation world has suffered some terrible loss.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:53
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axleblaze posted:It's still odd to me when people speak doom and gloom about Pixar. They had one bad movie (which really isn't as bad as people say it is), one film that was really good but had some internal troubles and a perfectly good sequel that gets lumped in as being bad for no reason I can really see other than it being a sequel. They've stumbled a bit from the absurdly good streak they had going but they still aren't exactly a name that doesn't mean anything anymore.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:12
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Yeah, Tangled, Wreck-It Ralph, Frozen is a serious hot streak. None of them are as good as The Incredibles, Wall-E, or Up, but they're visually loving incredible, and demonstrate that current Disney has all the pieces it needs in place to make a really great film. Doesn't really look like Big Hero 6 will be that film, though.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:17
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Wittgen posted:Maybe pixar movies have gotten a bit worse, but Disney movies have gotten better, so it's not like the animation world has suffered some terrible loss. Definitely, but usually when people are critiquing Pixar's performance in recent years it's only in comparison to their previous output. Which is still a little unfair, since they had such a hot streak for so long that a string of mediocre films isn't totally unexpected. Pixar in particular has built its image around an almost reverential dedication to quality and story above all, so when their movies seem not to hold up anymore, people get more critical than they would probably be if, say, Disney had another downturn. e: On an unrelated note, does anyone know when The Wind Rises is getting a blu-ray release in the U.S.? I checked on Amazon just now but it looks like it's not available. Google isn't digging anything up except a June 18th release date which sounds like it's Japan-only. mareep fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jul 9, 2014 |
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Jul 9, 2014 20:44
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Spatula City posted:Yeah, Tangled, Wreck-It Ralph, Frozen is a serious hot streak. None of them are as good as The Incredibles, Wall-E, or Up, but they're visually loving incredible, and demonstrate that current Disney has all the pieces it needs in place to make a really great film. Doesn't really look like Big Hero 6 will be that film, though. I dunno, it's only been a teaser and a few promo images, so I don't think that it's exactly fair to judge it based on the postage-sized stamps you see of the whole picture. Plus it's a good sign that at worst the previews seem only mediocre* rather than offending the sensibilities of the entire audience; unlike two of Disney's recent offerings. *tumblrite criticisms notwithstanding.
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Jul 10, 2014 03:09
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I will never get over last summer where Cartoon Network played the full two minute Turbo trailer every other commercial break. Compared to that, any marketing is genius.
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Jul 10, 2014 03:12
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Disney marketing has been really lackluster the last 5 years. It's not even that they're not advertising stuff well, they're just not even advertising much at all.
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Jul 10, 2014 04:01
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Yoshifan823 posted:Yeah, but I think this article is a little more relevant, because it goes into detail about how Pixar and Dreamworks Animation were involved. Everyone in the industry has done it at one point or another.. its just the large scale concentration in the bay area was baffling. Sony Imageworks and Animation didn't want to play dice and was infamous a few years ago for cold calling people and just offering them a boat load of money to change jobs. Heck I got cold called at my desk at an old VFX job by one of the companies listed in the court documents and wound up taking that job.. worked out well for me in that case . Thing is you got to change jobs fairly often, every 2-3 years at a minimum for a while to start maxing out your wages, if you stick at one animation studio forever and ever you'll stagnate in wages (unless you get them to counter offer you to stay from a better offer elsewhere). If this turns out like the EA Overtime class action, I can at least expect a settlement check of some sort down the road 
Big K of Justice fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 06:17
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umalt posted:I dunno, it's only been a teaser and a few promo images, so I don't think that it's exactly fair to judge it based on the postage-sized stamps you see of the whole picture. To be honest, "all the women look the same" is a pretty valid criticism. Frozen may be beautiful, but you can't deny the character design is a little lacking. Also: I don't think it's "tumblrite" to be suspicious of Western fiction about non-Western places. You do realise how often it turns out totally hosed up, yes?
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Jul 10, 2014 12:35
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What recent Disney movie was about a non-western place?
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Jul 10, 2014 13:04
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I'm talking about suspicion towards Big Hero 6, there. Should've clarified that.
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Jul 10, 2014 13:07
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Oh, I assumed that was in America. If not, that's kind of cool.
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Jul 10, 2014 13:41
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The comics take place in Japan, but the movie takes place in a fusion of San Fransisco and Tokyo.
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Jul 10, 2014 14:58
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Big K of Justice posted:Everyone in the industry has done it at one point or another.. its just the large scale concentration in the bay area was baffling. Sony Imageworks and Animation didn't want to play dice and was infamous a few years ago for cold calling people and just offering them a boat load of money to change jobs. I'm irritated by the fact that people accept this as just part of business practice, though. I really wonder at what point do you just make so much money that you, as someone that had to struggle to get Pixar truly off the ground, stop really caring about fostering employee goodwill and benefitting the artists, whose current positions were once your own. I'm still trying to make my way through Creativity, Inc. but the long paragraphs about employee trust and honesty, fostering good environments so that people stay, and how they totally had huge changes that upset employees after the sale to Disney, but it totally wasn't the sale to Disney guys it was just totally natural and unavoidable, are making it a much more obnoxious read. There's literally an entire paragraph at one point going on about how people need to stop being afraid to speak up and change broken systems just because they're afraid it will eat into their revenue. I'd also never heard before this that apparently Catmull and Lasseter have been involved in stock options back-dating scandals in the past as well. I think these have all already reached settlement agreements though. Nice to seeing it be put out in public, at least.
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Jul 10, 2014 15:08
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redcheval posted:I'm irritated by the fact that people accept this as just part of business practice, though. I really wonder at what point do you just make so much money that you, as someone that had to struggle to get Pixar truly off the ground, stop really caring about fostering employee goodwill and benefitting the artists, whose current positions were once your own. It's all relative, at the end of the day, revenue is all that matters. If the suits and studio heads are making gobs of money, they'll let a bit trickle down to the plebs behind the desks and give them a games room, free food, the odd bonus, etc. When money gets tight they'll cut things and people like no tomorrow. No money means the party is over. Feature animation jobs used to have paid gap time... you'd get a 3 year contract and if there isn't a show ready for 2-3 months for you to work on you got paid 2-3 months to take a break, or work on your own stuff, or work on a short or just do art on the company time. That party is over. That being said, Disney paying out the huge bonus for Frozen workers was nice. The idealism may have been there, but once the company gets over 100 people, and investors get involved, the culture will change. Don't get me wrong, they are great places to work, with awesome benefits, but you have to keep it in your head that it is still work, and its best to keep your interests in mind. Too many people in animation leave money on the table for the "good of the team", meanwhile team leader just purchased another ski villa in utah, and upgraded his gulfstream. That being said it is stunning to see how ignorant artists can be when they work for a studio, a few of them weren't aware of the wage collusion issues even though they work at studios that participate in it. I had friends at R+H VFX who thought everything was ok even though the company stopped having financial reports, and foreigners in suits were going around in tours every other week. And they cut back on the free tea and coffee. Then they were surprised when they were locked out.. really? Big K of Justice fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 19:16
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Big K of Justice posted:Thing is you got to change jobs fairly often, every 2-3 years at a minimum for a while to start maxing out your wages, if you stick at one animation studio forever and ever you'll stagnate in wages I won't disagree with this but it's sort of a runoff effect of how broken the VFX and animation industry in general is. Right now, I only know people aimming for Pixar just so that they can work there for a few years(or even months, heh) then quit for a big position at a game company. Companies don't even bother with offering full time positions and pretty much is contract based aside from a few. So it promotes this gypsy style of work behavior. Always on the go, always on the move and with LA losing so much to Vancouver, even having a family or a home is looking like a bad idea if you want to continue with film animation. Not to mention moving costs constantly. It's just funny since these animated/vfx movies make so much money it's silly. I'm noticing that when a company goes public with stocks and such that's the key point where things turn to poo poo quick animationwork aside. Buckwheat Sings fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 19:20
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It's just depressing to watch. Working for animation studios pretty much crushed my desire to watch animation anymore. Dragons 2 was fun and one of their best films, but to see all that work, all the layoffs afterwards because DWA still wants to throw films vs R-rated sequels that will steal box office share. The is only so much money going around on a weekend. Big K of Justice fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 19:31
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Big K of Justice posted:It's just depressing to watch. What's funny is that Dragons 2 actually did well at the box office. http://www.forbes.com/sites/briansolomon/2014/06/16/dreamworks-crushed-on-how-to-train-your-dragon-2-disappointment/ quote:
Heh, "ONLY 14% higher". Just not the  that they were hoping for so hence layoffs so that the company sheet could just etch out another percentage or two profit for that quarter.
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Jul 10, 2014 19:46
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Buckwheat Sings posted:I won't disagree with this but it's sort of a runoff effect of how broken the VFX and animation industry in general is. Right now, I only know people aimming for Pixar just so that they can work there for a few years(or even months, heh) then quit for a big position at a game company. Companies don't even bother with offering full time positions and pretty much is contract based aside from a few. So it promotes this gypsy style of work behavior. Always on the go, always on the move and with LA losing so much to Vancouver, even having a family or a home is looking like a bad idea if you want to continue with film animation. Not to mention moving costs constantly. If we just pressure them to make 4x the number of tentpole films, surely profits will never stop rising! Surely the cost of feature VFX being subsidized by BC will go on forever, and nobody will ever be voted into power who runs on cutting the budget! I worry that, in addition to the animation/VFX industry woes, that the increased demand of the next few years will break some big names, especially if the situation in BC starts to get really bad. Shoulda' been an engineer or something.
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Jul 10, 2014 19:52
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chthonic bell posted:To be honest, "all the women look the same" is a pretty valid criticism. Frozen may be beautiful, but you can't deny the character design is a little lacking. I don't buy this. It's subtle, but I'm Nordic and both Elsa and Anna look very familiar and close to home to me. The same subtle features are completely absent in Rapunzel for example who looks exotic by comparison to me.
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Jul 10, 2014 21:34
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I meant more that Elsa and Anna look downright identical. There's no meaningful variation in their appearance. You could swap their hairstyles and it'd be impossible to tell them apart.
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Jul 10, 2014 21:43
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chthonic bell posted:I meant more that Elsa and Anna look downright identical. There's no meaningful variation in their appearance. You could swap their hairstyles and it'd be impossible to tell them apart.  They look different enough considering they are sisters.
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Jul 10, 2014 21:55
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socialsecurity posted:
Exactly. Anna and Elsa look just dissimilar enough to be sisters, with the primary variations being in their facial shape/structure. Rapunzel looks like she's halfway between the two of them, though.
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Jul 10, 2014 22:09
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socialsecurity posted:
God drat Elsa has a long neck. They're standing shoulder to shoulder but Elsa is still taller then Anna solely because of her neck.
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Jul 10, 2014 22:23
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Disney's just teasing a remake of Swan Lake, clearly.
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Jul 10, 2014 22:35
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Okan170 posted:Shoulda' been an engineer or something. The environment and corporate attitudes in engineering are so similar its uncanny. Just replace 'tentpole blockbuster' with 'killer app' or 'block build'.
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Jul 10, 2014 23:50
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Terrifying Effigies posted:The environment and corporate attitudes in engineering are so similar its uncanny. Just replace 'tentpole blockbuster' with 'killer app' or 'block build'. There might be some benefits though! Maybe...
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Jul 11, 2014 02:10
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Vargo posted:Exactly. Anna and Elsa look just dissimilar enough to be sisters, with the primary variations being in their facial shape/structure. Rapunzel looks like she's halfway between the two of them, though. Isn't Rapunzel suppose to be related to Anna and Elsa somehow? Like a cousin or something?
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Jul 11, 2014 02:11
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Revolver Bunker posted:Isn't Rapunzel suppose to be related to Anna and Elsa somehow? Like a cousin or something? In the same way that the Tommy Westphall theory works, sure. Meaning no, it's just a fan thing some people said would be neat.
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Jul 11, 2014 02:48
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Yea it's just a fan thing based on a glimpse of a cameo and the fact that they kinda look similar.
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Jul 11, 2014 03:26
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Okan170 posted:If we just pressure them to make 4x the number of tentpole films, surely profits will never stop rising! Surely the cost of feature VFX being subsidized by BC will go on forever, and nobody will ever be voted into power who runs on cutting the budget! I worry that, in addition to the animation/VFX industry woes, that the increased demand of the next few years will break some big names, especially if the situation in BC starts to get really bad. It'll implode, you got 2 Indian financial firms buying up VFX companies in financial trouble to get names and experience assuming people don't jump ship during a takeover or merger. The current M.O. is to move everyone to Vancouver because of the 60% labor subsidy. That's animation/vfx party central for another year or two until the taxpayers wake up and demand the handouts to end. Personally I'm at a stable US studio so I'm ok but I worry about the industry and everyone I work with.. I like everyone to do what they love with some form of stability but right now its a toss up. Watched Lego Movie and Cloudy 2 tonight... great fun movies. My backup plan if animation/vfx goes bust is to finish my electrical engineering degree and get an industrial / oil job like a few of my friends who bailed out of the industry.
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Jul 11, 2014 07:02
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SatansBestBuddy posted:God drat Elsa has a long neck. They're standing shoulder to shoulder but Elsa is still taller then Anna solely because of her neck. They have a lady who is "friends with" Elsa meaning a lady who plays her at Magic Kingdom park who has that neck. It's uncanny. She often gets picked to do photo shoots for press stuff because she looks so much like the cartoon when she has the wig and makeup on.
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Jul 11, 2014 07:17
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Yea it's just a fan thing based on a glimpse of a cameo and the fact that they kinda look similar. What's the theory?
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Jul 11, 2014 09:46
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Elsa and Anna are Rapunzel's cousins. Rapunzel's mom is their aunt. The parents died going to Rapunzel and Eugene's wedding. (The animators did say in a Q&A that the parents died on their way to a wedding.) Then Eugene and Rapunzel made a point of visiting Elsa's coronation because of course you would in that situation. It's a good theory because it adds to the movie in a small way. It explains why the the three princesses look really similar. It adds emotion to the split second Tangled cameo, and it even helps explain why Elsa's parents overreacted so strongly to Elsa's powers.
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Jul 11, 2014 12:38
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Wittgen posted:Elsa and Anna are Rapunzel's cousins. Rapunzel's mom is their aunt. The parents died going to Rapunzel and Eugene's wedding. (The animators did say in a Q&A that the parents died on their way to a wedding.) Then Eugene and Rapunzel made a point of visiting Elsa's coronation because of course you would in that situation. It's a good theory because it adds to the movie in a small way. It explains why the the three princesses look really similar. It adds emotion to the split second Tangled cameo, and it even helps explain why Elsa's parents overreacted so strongly to Elsa's powers. By the same logic, Scar traveled back in time to Ancient Greece and was murdered by Hercules, and after the events of Aladdin, the Magic Carpet lived a solitary and lonely existence for hundreds of years until winding up in Jazz Era New Orleans. It's a fanwank theory based on a split second cameo in a Disney movie, even though pretty much every Disney movie has these split second cameos. Which is fine.
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Jul 11, 2014 14:27
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Crappy Jack posted:By the same logic, Scar traveled back in time to Ancient Greece and was murdered by Hercules Why would he have had to go back in time? Who's to say The Lion King doesn't already take place in antiquity?
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Jul 11, 2014 14:33
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Phylodox posted:Why would he have had to go back in time? Who's to say The Lion King doesn't already take place in antiquity? Fair point. In which case the question is, did the hyenas kill Scar, or was it his previously unknown decoy?
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Jul 11, 2014 14:39
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Elsa and Annie being related to Rapunzel is nothing compared to this convoluted mess: Petticoat Junction is somehow related to Home Improvement which is somehow related to Law & Order: SVU because of John Munch. EDIT: Is there someone out there claiming all the Pixar movies are canon because of the Pizza Planet truck?
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Jul 11, 2014 14:44
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We know from Kingdom Hearts that all Disney movies are roughly concurrent, with a +- 10 year offset, but then again KH also contradicts the established Disney canon of Hercules taking place AFTER Aladdin 3. 
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Jul 11, 2014 14:45
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Crappy Jack posted:Fair point. In which case the question is, did the hyenas kill Scar, or was it his previously unknown decoy? Hyenas kill Scar, start dragging him off to a den, get intercepted by hunters who promptly spear Scar and run back to their village to show everyone the lion they killed. Later on a boy called Mowgli wanders into their village, grows up to become a tradesman and sells Scar's hide on the coast. I have no idea who the buyer that exports the thing to Greece is, though.
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Jul 11, 2014 14:47
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