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Slifter posted:Mostly because Comet Strike is awesome, as is the the pause the first time you play it every match. Well yes, I meant besides the obvious. I definitely want to give this a shot at some point. Tamba posted:The problem with that kind of deck is, that Gorefeast can deal 16/18 damage on their turn 4, if they have an unblocked 2/3 attack creature. And all of the cards that could do anything to stop it are in your sideboard. Stormcall is there, which is a good response.
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Jul 14, 2014 20:02
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Stormcall and Extinction both cost 4, so it's too late if they go first.
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Jul 14, 2014 20:09
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Tamba posted:Stormcall and Extinction both cost 4, so it's too late if they go first. Yeah, but for the turn 4 gore for 16ish, a lot of things have to line up: 1) They need to go first 2) They can't use a shard of fate (otherwise they won't be able to pop their 3/1 elemental on turn 4 which is 9 of the 16) 3) They need to start with gore in their opening hand or draw it very quickly 4) They need to have all their shards line up with the correct colors to cast their hand Sometimes you just lose to the nut draw, I'm not sure it is worth being super stressed about it, especially since this deck is meant to attack the durdly control decks which are waaaay more popular atm.
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Jul 14, 2014 20:17
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If it changes anything, it's not just aggro builds that primarily feature Gorefeast that can kill on turn 4; the Orcs deck Sigma-X posted, while it still requires a pretty convenient draw (Savage Raider, at least 1 more 1/2-drop 2+/1, Throat Cutter, and the shards to cast them . . . actually, that seems like it would be a pretty common sequence), can still deal 20-23 damage by turn 4 provided no blockers or removal intercede, which looks like a pretty big problem for that Comet Strike build if it goes second. I like the Comet Strike deck a lot the more I think about it, but the abundance of control decks would certainly make it look even better than it does already. What I really wish was more viable is mono-Wild. I haven't paid enough attention to the Constructed meta besides what's discussed here, or paid enough to finish any decks, but since I haven't seen anything about it I'm just assuming it wouldn't work? Though I also want to try R/W.
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Jul 14, 2014 20:29
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I'm actually with Tamba on this, part of why this deck is working so well is because right now people can't seem to get enough of their Angels and Soul Marbles. That match up is also why I'm considering switching to Diamond, it's fogs are better and cheaper.
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Jul 14, 2014 20:33
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The most prevalent (not dominant necessarily) decks are running 12+ point removal and 4x Extinction. A mono-wild deck pretty much needs to run 4x Boulder Brute an 4x Battle Beetle with the spellshield orbs to get in there, because you can't afford to overextend and you need to be able to go bigger than Soul Marble/Angel of Dawn/Vampire King. I think the biggest issue is that there is no strong strategy site for the game at the moment (I'm talking to Karnegal about trying to start one  ) because right now the biggest players are just loving terrible, and posting bad deck lists and ignoring the meta. There is so little information on what counters the big players in the meta right now that we don't have a rock paper scissors format, we have a big rock that crushes all the bad decks and not enough people playing the decks that beat those Rocks to open it up for a third archetype that preys on the control-killers. A new set will help, too, but I don't think we've really figured out this set yet.
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Jul 14, 2014 20:34
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All Nines posted:
The problem with mono wild seems to be lack of removal and lack of flight. I do think there are still a lot of potential decks people haven't really figured out, either because everyone chases fads or because the card sets aren't *quite* there yet. Once we get another set or two's worth of cards things are going to really open up. Edit: I think another part of the problem is that because of the way cards came in during Alpha, a lot of decks got faddish and then went "out" again before the cards that might've made them work were implemented -- I know I'd never taken a second look at Cerebral Fulmination for example because when I first was messing around with it, cards like Incantation of Ascendance and Kindling Skarn didn't exist, so there weren't the synergies in place yet. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jul 14, 2014 |
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Jul 14, 2014 20:38
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Slifter posted:I'm actually with Tamba on this, part of why this deck is working so well is because right now people can't seem to get enough of their Angels and Soul Marbles. That match up is also why I'm considering switching to Diamond, it's fogs are better and cheaper. You could probably just add some Shards/Infusion Devices to your deck and splash for Blinding Light, depending on how tight your early turns are. Going with the Infusion Device could also let you lighten your card draw.
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Jul 14, 2014 20:58
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For "preying on control decks", if you were going to build one deck to beat the standard BD list what would it be? I'd consider the "standard" to be something like: 4x Angel of Dawn 4x Soul Marble 4x Living Totem 4x Murder 4x Extinction 10x mix of repel, inner conflict, exile something constant 3x Vampire King 3x Xentoth's Inquisitor I feel like many decks can have a 50/50 shot at it, but there is no "oh good, the BD control deck I was expecting, I should win this easy" deck. Sometimes they T2 angel and kill you very quickly Sometimes they just remove whatever the hell you play and then eventually value you out Even if you run spellshield guys, they can still extinction them. Even if you play gore storm to kill them quickly, they can just cast 2839402342 removal spells so that you never have a creature to attack with. I should have SS my opponents GY from a match yesterday. T8 or so he had 3x repel 2x extinction, 3x murder in the yard. Even with the comet strike deck, they could top deck totem or soul marble before you topdeck peek/one of your win cons. Then they can bring in 4x inquisition from the side. Can I beat the deck? Sure, I probably run 50% against it. But a deck that should utterly rape the BD control deck? I'm not sure what that would look like.
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Jul 14, 2014 22:34
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Vilgan posted:For "preying on control decks", if you were going to build one deck to beat the standard BD list what would it be? Check out the Blood/Sapphire control deck I posted a little ways up the thread. It's designed to beat the standard B/D list. I have yet to face one of those decks (probably because they're even more expensive than the list I put together), but theoretically, with players of equal skill and with average draws, the B/S deck should win more than 50% of the time. Without more practice (and a better player piloting the deck; I'm not really that good a player) I can't really give a better percentage than that.
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Jul 14, 2014 23:13
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Vilgan posted:For "preying on control decks", if you were going to build one deck to beat the standard BD list what would it be? Maybe something with Wild/Sapphire? Turbulence kills angels, vampires and flying totems, Wind of Change or Nature Reigns destroys Soul Marble and Solitary Exile, and Spellshielded creatures don't care about anything but Extinction, which you can counterspell.
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Jul 14, 2014 23:26
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:
The very first thing I thought of the first time I saw cerebral fulmination was "oh, that's how you make pack raptors work". Then again, I've been playing mono sapphire control and ruby wild aggro since day one so I may be the exception.
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Jul 14, 2014 23:45
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Oh hrmm, apparently the free constructed tournaments are over with. Done with constructed until set 2 now probably, glad I didn't hit the AH heavily for cards I didn't have yet.
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Jul 15, 2014 00:11
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Vilgan posted:Oh hrmm, apparently the free constructed tournaments are over with. Done with constructed until set 2 now probably, glad I didn't hit the AH heavily for cards I didn't have yet. Where does it say they're done for good? I thought they were firing them off every few hours?
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Jul 15, 2014 02:01
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There's one in three hours.
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Jul 15, 2014 02:03
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They aren't free anymore. 500p entry fee. Glad I got my 15 free packs (14 normal and a primal I sold for 1850p) while the getting was good.
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Jul 15, 2014 02:04
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Who is buying these primals? like, surely it's just cheaper to buy up your collection from the AH than gamble on these + the unknown value of a Legendary chest Kinda wishing I had sold 21 of them to suckers instead of opening 
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Jul 15, 2014 02:43
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I kickstarted at the lowest level so I don't have the infinite packs some people are plagued with, but other than an initial five dollars I spent on platinum, I've went infinite with the competitive drafts, mostly due to the fact that I sold a primal pack for like $20 bucks on the first day of AH (and also in part due to the fact that most drafters are really bad at the game).
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Jul 15, 2014 02:46
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Grim posted:Who is buying these primals? like, surely it's just cheaper to buy up your collection from the AH than gamble on these + the unknown value of a Legendary chest  You've gotten TWENTY-ONE Primal packs?
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Jul 15, 2014 02:48
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Grim posted:Who is buying these primals? like, surely it's just cheaper to buy up your collection from the AH than gamble on these + the unknown value of a Legendary chest Yeah, I'm kinda regretting opening the ones I had before that one. I put it up on the AH, figuring I'd open it when it didn't sell, but then it did. I've only opened like 5 but that's still nearly $100 in platinum.
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Jul 15, 2014 02:59
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Some Numbers posted:
I wonder how long it will take trading to get in? or at least sending packs and stuff through the in-game mail; Karnegal got those beta keys but it would be nice if we could set new goons up with something instead of asking them to drop cash monies on platinum
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Jul 15, 2014 03:57
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Grim posted:I wonder how long it will take trading to get in? or at least sending packs and stuff through the in-game mail; Karnegal got those beta keys but it would be nice if we could set new goons up with something instead of asking them to drop cash monies on platinum To further that end we're going to do that Hexagoon tournament ASAP. I want trading pretty badly.
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Jul 15, 2014 04:24
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Yeah, as soon as trading is in the game, we can start organizing internal tournaments. I think a bunch of us have stuff that we can put up for prizes either packs, promos, or whatever.
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Jul 15, 2014 05:35
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Karnegal posted:Yeah, as soon as trading is in the game, we can start organizing internal tournaments. I think a bunch of us have stuff that we can put up for prizes either packs, promos, or whatever. Zurai posted:Yeah, I'm kinda regretting opening the ones I had before that one. I put it up on the AH, figuring I'd open it when it didn't sell, but then it did. I've only opened like 5 but that's still nearly $100 in platinum. --- Seeming as though we've got a pretty good overall discussion going about Constructed play, what do you feel would make Shin'hare - or to be more general, token strategies more viable? Shin'hare and to a lesser extent Dwarves have both had trouble making an impact in any 128 man tournament that I've seen, and the reason is pretty evident in Extinction & Yesterday, but what could be done to help this in set two? One of the card ideas I had been kicking around in my head over the past few days is a Wild constant that serves as a 'burrow', which fits with the tunnelling theme they've alluded to with the second set's announcement - and would serve as a defensive card to protect cards. Something like: Shin'hare Burrow 2 wild threshold 4 mana cost 1 mana, exhaust this constant: Void target troop you control, at the beginning of your next upkeep return it to play. This would let Shin'hare decks protect their key cards from board wipes, while also tying in another aspect of rabbits thematically to the race.
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Jul 15, 2014 09:20
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LightReaper posted:On this topic, I really wish you could play best of three's in the proving grounds - as without that, sideboarding on a trust system is a little awkward. Though it is still workable. Here's an idea - give a decklist as usual and five more cards to be a part of the sideboard. assume that any amount (1-4) of the sideboard cards could be in the deck from the start or sided in between rounds. Less book keeping and easier to spot cheaters. Yes I know it means potentially 20 cards could be sided in, but eh. It could do until we get all the fancy guild tools promised. On the note of holding constructed staples - imo yes and no. I snagged a bunch of soul marble when people were selling them in droves for 300 plat each and sold all my angels and vamp kings for 1700ish plat each. When a card is at or above 15 dollars worth of plat, it's due for a correction via either a new set giving more answers or via nerds frantically tearing open packs to sell them. That said, I wish I hadn't of sold until AFTER free tournaments were done. But maybe prices will drop because freebies are gone?  I only grasp basic market principles and just barely.
Blazing Zero fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Jul 15, 2014 |
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Jul 15, 2014 13:31
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LightReaper posted:Seeming as though we've got a pretty good overall discussion going about Constructed play, what do you feel would make Shin'hare - or to be more general, token strategies more viable? They need to either be faster or be more resilient to removal. Right now they're simply in a bad place where they both take too long to win and are too easy to shut down.
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Jul 15, 2014 14:05
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I went 3-1 in ~5 of the 128 mans with a dwarf deck. Yesterday wasn't a big deal since most of my stuff was so cheap, but the extinction + soul marble combo was definitely a headache. I'm comfortable saying extinction alone is adequately handled by countermagic + ingenuity engines + paranoia, but there's no good answer to soul marble - the biggest thing I can see that would help is just flat out moving solitary exile from diamond to sapphire. Chaos key is too slow to do the job reliably. I'd drop ruby and splash diamond for that card alone, but I don't think the deck can afford to slow down that much more.
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Jul 15, 2014 18:03
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Irony.or.Death posted:I went 3-1 in ~5 of the 128 mans with a dwarf deck. Yesterday wasn't a big deal since most of my stuff was so cheap, but the extinction + soul marble combo was definitely a headache. I'm comfortable saying extinction alone is adequately handled by countermagic + ingenuity engines + paranoia, but there's no good answer to soul marble - the biggest thing I can see that would help is just flat out moving solitary exile from diamond to sapphire. Chaos key is too slow to do the job reliably. I'd drop ruby and splash diamond for that card alone, but I don't think the deck can afford to slow down that much more. Wild can deal with soul marble, but they can't deal with extinction. BD is brutal, hopefully future sets will balance it out a bit and give other shards more answers.
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Jul 15, 2014 18:13
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As soon as they print some 2 for 1 creatures Blood/Diamond stops being useful. Right now they can match all of your creatures one for one with removal, and if you try to overload that they play Extinction. The second there is a creature that kills a 4 toughness creature or a soul marble when it comes into play, things will shift considerably.
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Jul 15, 2014 18:29
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do you think they'll print ftk when they already have the 5mana 2/2 ping for 2
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Jul 15, 2014 19:12
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dongsbot 9000 posted:do you think they'll print ftk when they already have the 5mana 2/2 ping for 2 For non magic players, ftk is flame tongue kavu, a creature that deals four damage to another creature when it enters the battlefield.
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Jul 15, 2014 19:18
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dongsbot 9000 posted:do you think they'll print ftk when they already have the 5mana 2/2 ping for 2 Not in the second set and Sniper does more than 2.
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Jul 15, 2014 19:21
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I'd like to see a card along the lines of: Unstable Form 3 BR Action Target card gains 'If this card would transform, instead destroy it, and its controller is dealt 2 damage'" Eat poo poo Soul Marble.
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Jul 15, 2014 19:27
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dongsbot 9000 posted:do you think they'll print ftk when they already have the 5mana 2/2 ping for 2 It doesn't ping for 2 though, it pings for however much its toughness is. I've seen it hit for 10 in a draft with double swordmaster inspire guys. I don't think they'll print flametongue kavu but I could see them print a number of cards that would deal with those creatures or deal with Soul Marble that would be fine. They just really need some creatures to mitigate the success of trading 1 for 1 ad infinitum.
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Jul 15, 2014 19:40
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I swear, every time I draft, there's that *one single match* that takes forever.
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Jul 15, 2014 23:32
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It's how this poo poo always works. I really enjoyed MODO's tabbed client, as you could buy/sell, chat, build decks, etc, spectate, or even play casual games during the downtime. The two things I wish they would fix before anything else, including trading, are giving us the ability to use other screens, and streamlining selling cards.
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Jul 15, 2014 23:48
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So is the current consensus that primal packs should be sold or opened? I've got *most* of the rares I need but only about half the legendaries (four Angels but no Vampire Kings at all, etc.)
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Jul 16, 2014 00:46
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:So is the current consensus that primal packs should be sold or opened? I've got *most* of the rares I need but only about half the legendaries (four Angels but no Vampire Kings at all, etc.) If you only need legendaries sell the packs. I busted all my initial primals to get my rare collection going, but I'd sell any I got unless I was convinced that the guaranteed legendary chest is going to be worth a lot.
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Jul 16, 2014 01:17
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Hrm, maybe i'll save and open during Gencon just because. There are still a very few rares I need but nothing I can't pick up on the AH.
Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jul 16, 2014 |
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Jul 16, 2014 01:19
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There's nothing special for opening packs during Gencon anymore.
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Jul 16, 2014 02:21
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