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Dantu posted:For a show about 2% of the world's population vanishing, I'm not sure what it was about the burglary part that my suspension of disbelief choked on. I mean, not ONE of them caught in the act? It's not like they just broke in and took one thing and ran. They were carefully taking apart picture frames ffs. No dogs barking, no homeowner defending his property with a bat/shotgun. 100% success rate. Theoretically they "explain" it by having everybody at the Christmas party in the high school. Although there were obviously still people in those houses so it's a little ridiculous.
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Jul 22, 2014 04:21
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Toshimo posted:All the good characters in this show: Aside from Matt, Lucy is probably my favorite character since she seems to be sick of all of this poo poo she's most likely inherited. She does a better job of portraying that than Garvey, not to say that Theroux's isn't doing a good job.
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Jul 22, 2014 05:13
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Not even the occasional fun stylistic flourish can stop me from dropping this uninteresting, miserable, crappy-rear end show. I don't hate the premise like some people but this is basically the worst possible version of it. It's so weird that the main issues with LOST involved it being on network TV and having to have lovely filler episodes, and then Lindelof goes to cable and absolutely nothing interesting ever happens. It's a show that thinks it's saying all this deep stuff but really it's just throwing some events at you and standing there with its arms out like "Huh? Huh?? Meaningful, right?" while spouting the worst dialogue I've heard since.....well, Prometheus, actually. I would love to be convinced via analysis that this show is anything other than a waste of time but I'm not seeing it right now. Why wouldn't she just say he wasn't the one who hit her? Why does she just loving sit there while the doctor gets all suspicious? And now this dumb rear end in a top hat is blackmailing him so he doesn't get blamed for abuse? And he runs away for DRAMA? This is all so stupid! - my reaction to one scene that is a microcosm of my reaction to every scene Escobarbarian fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 13:14
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Vanderdeath posted:Aside from Matt, Lucy is probably my favorite character since she seems to be sick of all of this poo poo she's most likely inherited. She does a better job of portraying that than Garvey, not to say that Theroux's isn't doing a good job. I don't care for
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Jul 22, 2014 13:15
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Bown posted:Why wouldn't she just say he wasn't the one who hit her? Why does she just loving sit there while the doctor gets all suspicious? And now this dumb rear end in a top hat is blackmailing him so he doesn't get blamed for abuse? And he runs away for DRAMA? This is all so stupid! - my reaction to one scene that is a microcosm of my reaction to every scene I had this same moment in the first episode when the daughter asks "why is there a dead dog in your trunk?" And he acts all "uuuhhhhhh" when any other person would say "some dude shot it and I found it".
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Jul 22, 2014 13:33
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If everyone who hates this show and is gonna stop watching could also stop posting thatd be greaaaat
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Jul 22, 2014 13:51
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Yaoi Mandel posted:If everyone who hates this show and is gonna stop watching could also stop posting thatd be greaaaat Yeah, LOST really hosed up a lot of people.
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Jul 22, 2014 13:52
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Yaoi Mandel posted:If everyone who hates this show and is gonna stop watching could also stop posting thatd be greaaaat 
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Jul 22, 2014 14:10
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The Dave posted:I had this same moment in the first episode when the daughter asks "why is there a dead dog in your trunk?" And he acts all "uuuhhhhhh" when any other person would say "some dude shot it and I found it". Yeah but see he isn't supposed to act like a normal human being because [mysteries]. It's really hard to be sympathetic to these characters when they act so dumb. John from Cincinnati all over again.
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Jul 22, 2014 14:16
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Nope, if you think this show is bad it's because of LOST! Even though I loved LOST and think this show is rear end! edit: honestly, all I want is for someone to explain what's actually good about this show, instead of just coming up with excuses for why the people who don't like it are wrong. Literally not one single person has done this. I don't mean a written defence, but even people talking about the themes and such, the kind of normal discussion that good shows breed. There's absolutely none of that in this thread, and if that stuff existed it would at the very least be able to co-exist in the thread with the complaints. Escobarbarian fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 14:20
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Yeah I loved LOST ending and all so it's becoming pretty cheap to just use that as a scapegoat. Though a couple of times I've thought of making comments about Lindelof and I stop because this isn't his story, so are there any book readers that could shed more light on how the series has been (so far) as a representation of the book?
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Jul 22, 2014 14:31
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Yeah, LOST really hosed up a lot of people.
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Jul 22, 2014 14:38
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Bown posted:Nope, if you think this show is bad it's because of LOST! Even though I loved LOST and think this show is rear end! I guess I just enjoy watching people try to make sense of something that doesn't and their struggles with it. I actually find it quite interesting from a thought experiment.
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Jul 22, 2014 14:42
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That episode was definitely off balance, not awful but certainly in need of something, but I really loved the scene with the fake bodies strewn about the highway. The show needs more of the vibe that that sequence evoked. Really, if they want to keep my attention rapt, they should do their best to cut down on these tapestry-style episodes and have a majority of single-character stories.
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Jul 22, 2014 14:49
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Does this feel like Magnolia the TV show to anyone else? Granted I haven't seen the movie in years but that's immediately the first thing I thought of after watching the first 3 episodes in one sitting.
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Jul 22, 2014 14:56
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thathonkey posted:I can certainly understand not liking the show at this point but why do people keep acting like it keeps bringing up new mysteries and such? Yeah I don't quite get this, was there even a single mystery raised in this episode? The only major mysteries I can really think of at the moment are what's going on with Wayne, is Kevin's dad crazy or can he really communicate with the departed, who is Kevin's dog shooting friend, and arguably what is the purpose of the Guilty Remnant, though I'd argue that's been made kind of obvious at this point. Not counting "where did the departed go" since it seems clear that's not something we should be focused on.
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Jul 22, 2014 16:41
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Bown posted:absolutely nothing interesting ever happens. It's a show that thinks it's saying all this deep stuff but really it's just throwing some events at you and standing there with its arms out like "Huh? Huh?? Meaningful, right?" Bown posted:Why wouldn't she just say he wasn't the one who hit her? Why does she just loving sit there while the doctor gets all suspicious? You could pick any explanation that seems plausible, or even think up your own. When considering a character's reaction to a situation, you might think about who the character is, what her motivations might be, and how she might perceive the situation she's in. The characters aren't playing a video game where the point is to have a perfect score. They're reacting to events as they unfold and, like real people, they aren't always going to react in ways that you believe are optimal. Bown posted:while spouting the worst dialogue I've heard since.....well, Prometheus, actually. Ersatz fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 18:11
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Ersatz posted:
I'm going to discount possibilities d-f since as a viewer there has been absolutely no evidence to suggest the woman is reasonably bright. Hanging out poolside in a heavily armed and secluded cult of personality compound chilling as a member of HuggyBear's Hawt Exclusively Asian Harem is not the sort of thing commonly associated with a reasonably bright woman (or at least not one with an ounce of self respect). I'll vote a combination of a, b, and c with more weight placed on a and c. Ersatz posted:
This tells me more than what you probably meant to reveal.
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Jul 22, 2014 18:46
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What are the themes of the show anyway? - faith/spirituality - nihilism - family - abandonment Anything else?
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Jul 22, 2014 19:05
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Bown posted:edit: honestly, all I want is for someone to explain what's actually good about this show, instead of just coming up with excuses for why the people who don't like it are wrong. Literally not one single person has done this. I don't mean a written defence, but even people talking about the themes and such, the kind of normal discussion that good shows breed. There's absolutely none of that in this thread, and if that stuff existed it would at the very least be able to co-exist in the thread with the complaints. To your latter point, I feel like there is a fair bit of discussion of themes and regular show discussion going on, but it is getting drowned out by discussions about accents or character likability or countdowns until Poster X stops watching the show for good. After episode 3 there was some good discussion about how his story was basically the story of Job and how the episode title and the "joke" its from tied into the themes of the episode. After this most recent episode there was discussion about the GR and their motivations etc (although granted a lot of it was bashing the GR but at this point they are meant to be specifically unsympathetic). messagemode1 actually did a really good write up on the previous page about the recurring imagery of manufactured people (the baby jesus doll and the fake corpses) and how the opening of the dolls being manufactured led into that. I was able to find these posts just by quickly skimming the last 4 pages. As far as explaining to you what's good about the show: are you actually asking for someone to explain to you what is good about the show, or are you asking someone to convince you why you should enjoy it? Because it seems like you don't enjoy it, which is fine, but it seems like you are equating your personal enjoyment with the overall quality of the show. I personally like the slower tension building pace, I like the imagery and the music, I like how atmospheric it is, in contrast to you I actually like that it is more about building and exploring these characters and their relationships and isn't so focused on moving plot points from A to B. I did like ep 3 the best but I really enjoyed ep 1 and found 2 and 4 to have interesting aspects but thought they were overshadowed by the two better episodes. Also Prometheus is really great.
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Jul 22, 2014 19:09
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The Dave posted:Though a couple of times I've thought of making comments about Lindelof and I stop because this isn't his story, so are there any book readers that could shed more light on how the series has been (so far) as a representation of the book? The book is pretty much totally different, first off Kevin is a mayor and a much less curmudgeonly protagonist, the whole "everyone is going insane" theme isn't there, the book is dark but it has a fairly optimistic message that the show doesn't seem interested in conveying. For example, Tom leaves college to join the cult because he hears about it from his frat bros, not because he sees two kids kill themselves. It seems like Lindelof got his hands on the material and was like "ok, now let's make this loving grim." Which I'm ok with, but it's not very faithful to the book and I'm interesting if the show does a face/heel turn and comes out with an optimistic end of the first season or if he's going to continue to make it bleaker and bleaker. The book has a pretty tied-up ending, if they do faithfully adapt it, short of solving the "mystery" of how it all happened in the first place, I have no idea what they would do for a second season (which doesn't matter anyway because I'll be shocked if HBO renews the show)
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Jul 22, 2014 19:10
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Ahh so the THIS IS SO SERIOUS LISTEN TO THE MUSIC stuff is all Lindelof then.
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Jul 22, 2014 19:37
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Honestly, this show is probably a Giacchino removed from being brilliant.
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Jul 22, 2014 19:45
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Guy A. Person posted:I personally like the slower tension building pace, I like the imagery and the music, I like how atmospheric it is, in contrast to you I actually like that it is more about building and exploring these characters and their relationships and isn't so focused on moving plot points from A to B. The main issue I'm having is that usually I love this kind of show, the kind that has everything you mentioned, but this one just seems so badly-done in every way. I enjoyed episode 3, but it really does feel like it was made by totally different people. Other than some admittedly really nice bits of imagery (in this episode they would be the beginning with the dolls and the highway full of fake corpses, both of which ruled), I can't find anything to hold on to. The characters make baffling decisions and aren't pleasant to watch - which, before someone points it out, does not at all mean I need all my TV characters to be likeable, it means that these ones feel poorly-drawn and are all miserable ciphers. I don't need more poo poo to happen, but I need the poo poo that does happen to be less dumb. It's atmospheric, but it just feels so empty, bleak for the sake of being bleak with absolutely nothing I can relate to. Yet lots of people like it and I'm not the kind of person who thinks everyone who likes shows I don't is an idiot, so I'm interested in engaging in actual debate about it, however pissed-off I might seem right after finishing an episode. I loved LOST, I love slow-rear end shows with religious themes like Rectify, and I like the concept, but the execution seems so....poor. To take some issues from the AV Club review of this episode that I agree with, it 1) thinks it's saying a lot more about theology and just generally being a lot more meaningful than it really is, and 2) hasn't done anything to lead me to care about any of the characters, especially the teenagers who are the most stereotypical adult view of teenagers as destruction-loving nihilists ever, and the cult who are overbearing in a very OTT way. I'm constantly questioning why characters made certain decisions and smirking at lines that are either over-expository or sound nothing like how actual people talk. tldr: I usually adore this kind of show but can't find anything to like in this one and wouldn't mind being proven wrong about it
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Jul 22, 2014 20:15
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I can dig all that. I really enjoyed 1 and 3 though so I am giving it till the end of the season, although it is worrying that it is so uneven right off the bat. That is my biggest concern, along with wanting it to become a little more optimistic. Although I suspect with the way they are approaching the show they want to layer on the despair a little before they start allowing the characters some moments of triumph. It is odd that this kind of unevenness and heavy handedness is coming from veterans of the craft rather than people who are figuring things out though. Sorry you aren't enjoying it then, it seems like you are angrier due to disappointment than anything, which I can see. This was the first one I watched with my wife and after how great episode 3 was it was kind of embarrassing how middling this one was.
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Jul 22, 2014 21:01
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I want to like this show too and am disappointed for the most part but like everyone else thought ep3 was excellent, though bleak. Bleak is OK, mysterious and weird is good, slow moving is fine as long as there is a payoff eventually. The 'lack of likable characters' is a real problem though. It's OK to have terrible characters. Hated characters are often the most interesting ones and can help engage you with the story. Maybe you root against them or marvel at just how despicable they are. Matt came close to this in ep3 though seeing his wife and trials over the course of the episode managed to turn him into a somewhat sympathetic character. All that said eventually a story has to have someone the viewer can relate to or admire on some level, or even feel sorry for. But for the most part we just have glum chumps who do disgusting, dumb, useless things (GR people, Tom, PD Chief, Matt, Jill -though she gets a break as she's a teenager). Maybe that moment of triumph a post up will happen soon and the dynamic will change. We need something like that soon OR a more interesting story line presented in a story that you want to watch - like Matt's struggle to raise money to keep his church. Think about the scenes from ep4. None of these were interesting: Tom and Christine's struggles as they wait for a call, presumably are low on money and deal with an early pregnancy PD Chief's quest to find the baby Jesus and prepare for the meeting Jill's internal struggle to return or destroy the baby Jesus On the positive side the divorce papers scene was engaging, the bit about the fake corpses was cool but it wasn't really explored at all other than a reference to a dream (ok maybe this will pay off later but we need something in the meantime), and the GR heists sets up what must be a massive conflict with the town so we have that to look forward to but again we cannot watch an hour of setup for a later payoff with no reward, nothing interesting or fun to watch or anything in between. Also on the positive I find Nora's character interesting. She lost her whole family, is sympathetic, has an enormous prick of a brother, CCWs for some reason, doesn't do anything that makes us not like her so maybe she can be a character we relate to eventually. E: If we throw out the pilot as being a pilot maybe we're going to see a meh setup episode followed by a strong one. Sten Freak fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 22:24
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The real dolls were actually referenced in episode 3, where Matt's maid/nurse is watching TV and there is a commercial for it. I just realized that.
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Jul 22, 2014 23:41
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I don't understand the Grateful Remnant's appeal. Like, what's their hook? Also nice Strangers on a Train reference in this week's ep.
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Jul 23, 2014 00:22
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This show should just go all David Lynch on our arses.
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Jul 23, 2014 07:48
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Why exactly is Tommy helping Wayne anyway? I know this will be expanded upon more but I don't understand his motivations at all currently.
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Jul 23, 2014 14:50
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:Why exactly is Tommy helping Wayne anyway? I know this will be expanded upon more but I don't understand his motivations at all currently. He's a believer in his cult?
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Jul 23, 2014 14:52
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:He's a believer in his cult? Sort of, but he's an odd believer in that he never let's Wayne hug him barechested.
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Jul 23, 2014 14:56
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I'm the idiot watching this show because it infuriates me and because I want to know what happened to the 2%. All of the weird spooky poo poo happening reinforces my belief that there will be an explanation.
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Jul 23, 2014 15:42
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But they've said so many times already that there won't be
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Jul 23, 2014 15:51
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I'm surprised no one has been talking about how INSANE the opening credits to this show is. When that first image pops up I always lose my poo poo Anyway I've been really enjoying this and can see why some people have complaints about it. There's enough characters that I genuinely like, and Justin Theroux's lead has been growing on me, that I can stomach the duller parts. The third and fourth episodes have been better. That said, even though I've decided this is a good show, I just feel BAD when I'm watching it. I'm also in a weird place because I love Prometheus, am mostly ambivalent about Lost (only watched the first two seasons), and HATE Star Trek Into Darkness. So I don't know where that leaves me on Lindelof.
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Jul 23, 2014 16:03
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Lampsacus posted:This show should just go all David Lynch on our arses. Honestly this is the best possible outcome.
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Jul 23, 2014 16:07
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Frackie Robinson posted:I don't understand the Grateful Remnant's appeal. Like, what's their hook? I think they appeal to the people that are overwhelmed by the confusion and helplessness that this mass vanishing has inspired. With so much of the world trying to carry on like it was just another tragedy instead of something that flies in the face of conventional logic, a group that's saying "you SHOULD feel like something is wrong here" would make people feel less insane. Even if they're a cult of chain-smoking, white-wearing, public nuisances, at least they're not trying to put this thing behind them like it was just another bad day.
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Jul 23, 2014 16:20
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Frackie Robinson posted:I don't understand the Grateful Remnant's appeal. Like, what's their hook? Nicotine, obviously.
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Jul 23, 2014 17:34
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Frackie Robinson posted:I don't understand the Grateful Remnant's appeal. Like, what's their hook? Maybe they attract a disproportionately large number of voyeurs to their ranks. Seeing as how they spend most of their days wandering around town giving uncomfortably long stares to everyone.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:48
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With the GR I'm able to suspend my disbelief somewhat, but I do want to see a little bit more of why people are drawn to them. Most cults are started by a charismatic leader who seems appealing to the members and that is really hard to pull off in writing. Maybe Kathy (is that the head GRs name?) has amazing penmanship.
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