Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

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Psion: Dec 13, 2002; eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

I'll try to get the photos up tonight but the four-ship of Super Cobras and the pairs of Ospreys, Sea Knights, and Super Stallions was pretty drat badass.

honestly just the CH-53s alone would've been worth it for me :fap:

# ? Jul 30, 2014 22:55

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 23:11

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Psion posted:

honestly just the CH-53s alone would've been worth it for me

Same. Second fav helo after the CH-47 for me.

# ? Jul 30, 2014 22:59

Bob A Feet: Aug 10, 2005; Dear diary, I got another erection today at work. SO embarrassing, but kinda hot. The CO asked me to fix up his dress uniform. I had stayed late at work to move his badges 1/8" to the left and pointed it out this morning. 1SG spanked me while the CO watched, once they caught it. Tomorrow I get to start all over again...

vuk83 posted:

Can somebody at some point do an effort post about the osprey test crashes. I thought the reason it got a bad rap was the marines filling it up with troops while flight testing

I don't know what I can and can't say; ie what is privileged, so I'll give some human error things that we are taught to recognize and avoid.

Rotor impingement: big subject, but can be narrowed down to one rotor producing more lift than the other. Mostly caused by vortices, either from high sideward movement in the same a/c or descending turning formations involving other aircraft.

CG fuckery: the high wing, high nacelle position with a lower CG means that nacelle rotation will drive the nose down. I'd draw a diagram but if you can understand that the lift vector rotates up and around the CG that'll suffice. It'll cause the nose to pitch down at low airspeeds. Exacerbated by tailwinds.

# ? Jul 30, 2014 23:04

Duke Chin: Jan 11, 2002; _{^{Roger That:}}
MILK CRATES INBOUND

_{_{^{- FUCK THE HABS -}}}

Psion posted:

I'll try to get the photos up tonight but the four-ship of Super Cobras and the pairs of Ospreys, Sea Knights, and Super Stallions was pretty drat badass.

honestly just the CH-53s alone would've been worth it for me

What time did they fly? I ended up getting randomly called in to work and missed the whole shebang.

I may pop over to KBFI and check them out for funsies while they're sitting around.

# ? Jul 30, 2014 23:16

Psion: Dec 13, 2002; eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

They flew over in pairs every now and then between 1:40-2:00 and the formation flyby was about 2:10. They might've done other ones earlier, I got out to my viewpoint at 1:35 and the Essex had already passed by. Way to be premature, NAVY :mad:

(it's ok, it turned around and I got to see it on the return pass)

unfortunately a lot of my photos came out where the sky was exposed right and the planes are hosed up but I have a few that are good. I'm not very good at setting exposure in strong daylight when I have to work fast. also not good at it when I don't, but you know, that's my excuse :v:

# ? Jul 30, 2014 23:27

Naturally Selected: Nov 28, 2007; by Cyrano4747

Psion posted:

They flew over in pairs every now and then between 1:40-2:00 and the formation flyby was about 2:10. They might've done other ones earlier, I got out to my viewpoint at 1:35 and the Essex had already passed by. Way to be premature, NAVY

(it's ok, it turned around and I got to see it on the return pass)

unfortunately a lot of my photos came out where the sky was exposed right and the planes are hosed up but I have a few that are good. I'm not very good at setting exposure in strong daylight when I have to work fast. also not good at it when I don't, but you know, that's my excuse

Photoshop. If you were shooting RAW, or you just open them as RAWs (file-open as-RAW) you can mess with exposure settings and darken the sky/bump up the expo on the birds themselves. There's also exposure masks and such, so you can just bump up the heli's exposure without touching the sky.

And if you weren't shooting in RAW on a camera that supports manual exposure, start shooting in raw and post them pics. :mad:

E: Or toss em into a zip and I'll fix them. Need those helo pics.

Naturally Selected fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jul 30, 2014

# ? Jul 30, 2014 23:49

Duke Chin: Jan 11, 2002; _{^{Roger That:}}
MILK CRATES INBOUND

_{_{^{- FUCK THE HABS -}}}

What's he's saying is "don't be such a tortured artist :emo:

and post the drat pics, Psion."

edit: something just buzzed my office in W. Seattle.

e2: After grilling my coworker who actually saw them: The CH-46 and UH-1n are out scooting around right now. That makes sense why it sounded like dust and chattering bones when it went by. :rimshot:

Duke Chin fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jul 31, 2014

# ? Jul 30, 2014 23:53

A Melted Tarp: Nov 12, 2013; _{At the date}

Bob A Feet posted:

I don't know what I can and can't say; ie what is privileged, so I'll give some human error things that we are taught to recognize and avoid.

Rotor impingement: big subject, but can be narrowed down to one rotor producing more lift than the other. Mostly caused by vortices, either from high sideward movement in the same a/c or descending turning formations involving other aircraft.

CG fuckery: the high wing, high nacelle position with a lower CG means that nacelle rotation will drive the nose down. I'd draw a diagram but if you can understand that the lift vector rotates up and around the CG that'll suffice. It'll cause the nose to pitch down at low airspeeds. Exacerbated by tailwinds.

Cool.

If you do have a single engine failure, is yaw (or i guess it would be anti-torque at that point0 a factor? Unlike most rotor wings you have a way easier run on landing.

# ? Jul 31, 2014 03:13

Fender Anarchist: May 20, 2009; Fender Anarchist

Been mentioned a few times that there's a transfer shaft so one engine can power both rotors in an emergency.

Now, if a gearbox or rotor assembly lets go...

# ? Jul 31, 2014 03:16

Psion: Dec 13, 2002; eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

Naturally Selected posted:

Photoshop. If you were shooting RAW,

Lightroom, and of course I shoot RAW. Still have to, y'know, do the work.

:colbert:

# ? Jul 31, 2014 03:40

vessbot: Jun 17, 2005; I don't like you because you're dangerous

Ospreychat question: can you fly steady-state with the nacelles in any position, or are there ranges where you can only pass through but can't stay?

# ? Jul 31, 2014 03:45

Naturally Selected: Nov 28, 2007; by Cyrano4747

Psion posted:

Lightroom, and of course I shoot RAW. Still have to, y'know, do the work.

Photoshop's got a better mask/RAW converter. Especially if you need to drop out the sky. :colbert:

To bring this back to airplane chat, anyone here know a lot about the Sea Vixen? Or any of the twin-boom designs that came out of de Haviland and their ilk during the 50s. It's kind of odd, but there's always a ton of discussion about the century fighters/postwar US and Russian aircraft, but very little about the tea-fueled wondermachines that came out of that era.

Either way, the Vixen is a gorgeous craft. :allears:

# ? Jul 31, 2014 04:21

MrChips: Jun 10, 2005; FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

Naturally Selected posted:

To bring this back to airplane chat, anyone here know a lot about the Sea Vixen? Or any of the twin-boom designs that came out of de Haviland and their ilk during the 50s. It's kind of odd, but there's always a ton of discussion about the century fighters/postwar US and Russian aircraft, but very little about the tea-fueled wondermachines that came out of that era.

Either way, the Vixen is a gorgeous craft.

The biggest reason why there is very little Britjet chat is that with a few exceptions on the military side (Vulcan, Canberra and Lightning), their operational aircraft were all failures or hopelessly outmoded even before they entered service...which is in direct contrast to their experimental and concept aircraft, which were among the very best in the world. More than in any other country I would say, politics killed the aviation industry in the UK.

# ? Jul 31, 2014 04:33

simplefish: Mar 28, 2011; So long, and thanks for all the ~~fish~~ gallbladdΣrs!

MrChips posted:

The biggest reason why there is very little Britjet chat is that with a few exceptions on the military side (Vulcan, Canberra and Lightning), their operational aircraft were all failures or hopelessly outmoded even before they entered service...which is in direct contrast to their experimental and concept aircraft, which were among the very best in the world. More than in any other country I would say, politics killed the aviation industry in the UK.

Wikipedia posted:

Aeronautical engineer Sir Sydney Camm said of the TSR-2: "All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics. TSR-2 simply got the first three right.

# ? Jul 31, 2014 04:41

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

I think the English Electric Lightning was one of, if not the best plane of that type in its era. What a performer!

If I was rich as hell I'd take a ride in the two seater that is operated privately someplace (South Africa?)

# ? Jul 31, 2014 04:53

Insert name here: Nov 10, 2009; Oh.
Oh Dear.

Say what you want about the plane itself but I always thought the English Electric Lightning was :krad:

as hell due to the over/under arrangement of the engines:

# ? Jul 31, 2014 04:58

drunkill: Sep 25, 2007; me @ ur posting; Fallen Rib

Twin boom deHaviland you say?

Vampire, RAAF

Vampire by drunkill04, on Flickr

And more britplanes:
Meteor F.8, RAAF

Meteor F.8 by drunkill04, on Flickr

CAC Saber, RAAF

CAC Saber by drunkill04, on Flickr

# ? Jul 31, 2014 05:23

Powercube: Nov 23, 2006; I don't like that dude... I don't like THAT DUDE!

priznat posted:

If I was rich as hell I'd take a ride in the two seater that is operated privately someplace (South Africa?)

That stopped running after one of the lightnings crashed and killed both occupants. The South African civil aviation authority says that they will allow the other one to fly again, but it's the South African CAA- they are not exactly known for their speed and forthrightness.

It's too bad, it'd make for a fun article.

# ? Jul 31, 2014 05:33

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Powercube posted:

That stopped running after one of the lightnings crashed and killed both occupants. The South African civil aviation authority says that they will allow the other one to fly again, but it's the South African CAA- they are not exactly known for their speed and forthrightness.

It's too bad, it'd make for a fun article.

drat, I was thinking "I wonder what the chances of crashing in a mach 2 jet from the 60s would be?" As I typed that.. Pretty good I guess

edit: should add "with british reliability factored in"

# ? Jul 31, 2014 05:47

Duke Chin: Jan 11, 2002; _{^{Roger That:}}
MILK CRATES INBOUND

_{_{^{- FUCK THE HABS -}}}

priznat posted:

edit: should add "with british reliability factored in"

I hate that the Top Gear UK dissertation on Jaguars popped into my head as soon as I read this. hah

# ? Jul 31, 2014 08:23

One Eye Open: Sep 19, 2006; Am I awake?

Duke Chin posted:

I hate that the Top Gear UK dissertation on Jaguars popped into my head as soon as I read this. hah

Well, Jeremy Clarkson did have one in his front garden for a bit.

# ? Jul 31, 2014 09:12

Pidgin Englishman: Apr 30, 2007; If you shoot
you better hit your mark

Naturally Selected posted:

To bring this back to airplane chat, anyone here know a lot about the Sea Vixen? Or any of the twin-boom designs that came out of de Haviland and their ilk during the 50s. It's kind of odd, but there's always a ton of discussion about the century fighters/postwar US and Russian aircraft, but very little about the tea-fueled wondermachines that came out of that era.

Know much? No.

I did get to sit in a Sea Venom in Adelaide though and it was horrifically uncomfortable. It also felt a lot like sitting in a 1920s electronics experiment, they weren't overly big on cable management or panels covering... anything. It was reportedly as-flown, with little more than the occasional dusting since they acquired it.

If any aus goons get the chance, the Classic Jets Fighter Museum at parafield is well worth it. They've got a nice little collection and encourage you to sit in the Venom, Sabre and Mirage. They've got a few props as well. Not a huge collection, but sitting in the fighters is great. Even if it makes you realise you are far to tall to ever fly most of them.

# ? Jul 31, 2014 11:34

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

MrChips posted:

The biggest reason why there is very little Britjet chat is that with a few exceptions on the military side (Vulcan, Canberra and Lightning), their operational aircraft were all failures or hopelessly outmoded even before they entered service...which is in direct contrast to their experimental and concept aircraft, which were among the very best in the world. More than in any other country I would say, politics killed the aviation industry in the UK.

The Hawker Hunter was pretty good and more importantly is very pretty.

# ? Jul 31, 2014 13:02

SybilVimes: Oct 29, 2011

MrChips posted:

The biggest reason why there is very little Britjet chat is that with a few exceptions on the military side (Vulcan, Canberra and Lightning), their operational aircraft were all failures or hopelessly outmoded even before they entered service...which is in direct contrast to their experimental and concept aircraft, which were among the very best in the world. More than in any other country I would say, politics killed the aviation industry in the UK.

Utter nonsense.

The exceptions are the operational jets that were failures, things like the Scimitar, Sperrin and Valiant.

The vampire was a success - and remained in Swiss use until fairly recently - as was the Hunter, the Canberra (only retired a few years ago), Harrier, Tornado, Lightning, Jaguar (still in service in the middle east I think), Victor, Nimrod, Buccaneer, Provost and Hawk.

The US had it's fair share of operational duds on the other hand, for every F104 or F110 there is a Banshee, Tiger, Cougar or Vigilante.

# ? Jul 31, 2014 13:15

Bob A Feet: Aug 10, 2005; Dear diary, I got another erection today at work. SO embarrassing, but kinda hot. The CO asked me to fix up his dress uniform. I had stayed late at work to move his badges 1/8" to the left and pointed it out this morning. 1SG spanked me while the CO watched, once they caught it. Tomorrow I get to start all over again...

vessbot posted:

Ospreychat question: can you fly steady-state with the nacelles in any position, or are there ranges where you can only pass through but can't stay?

Yes you technically can but you have limited swashplate authority in the helicopter mode as well as no tailrotor so your movement is slightly limited unless you move the nacelles. In the other modes that aren't airplane, enough time in it will heat up gear boxes and force you into airplane.

# ? Jul 31, 2014 13:37

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

SybilVimes posted:

...the Canberra (only retired a few years ago...)

I worked a WB-57 doing Falcon 9 launch support during the last launch, if the Martin-built airframes count.

# ? Jul 31, 2014 13:45

Regnevelc: Jan 12, 2003; I'M A GROWN ASS MAN!

I got a chance to fly on a Lufthansa 747-800 yesterday from Frankfurt to Chicago. What a beautiful plane. I got the unexpected upgrade to business class which was nice.

# ? Jul 31, 2014 14:43

Kilonum: Sep 30, 2002; You know where you are? You're in the suburbs, baby. You're gonna drive.

hobbesmaster posted:

That's because it makes you wait 5 minutes for the gps alignment for god knows what reason.

PMDG has it in options for their 747 and MD-11 (not sure about their 777 as I don't have it yet), you can set it to Realistic (10 minutes, more at high latitudes), Fast (15 seconds), or instant (as soon as you push the required buttons).

I prefer Realistic :spergin:

# ? Jul 31, 2014 15:35

Slo-Tek: Jun 8, 2001; WINDOWS 98 BEAT HIS FRIEND WITH A SHOVEL

15 years back or so, at Oshkosh (I think), I saw a British twin boom in racing green with the Lion and Sun from Iran on the tail. Either a Vampire, or maybe a Venom. Anybody with better google than me have a picture of that? I saw it on the ground, but I'm pretty sure it flew in. Can't be that many flying vampire/venoms in the upper midwest in the late 90's, but haven't been able to find a picture.

# ? Jul 31, 2014 16:34

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

So next year I'm going to attend a Jeppesen-ran FAA flight dispatcher course. Anyone here in the thread done that?

# ? Jul 31, 2014 19:00

Psion: Dec 13, 2002; eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

Naturally Selected posted:

Photoshop's got a better mask/RAW converter. Especially if you need to drop out the sky.

well if you want to buy me CS6 ... :v:

anyway, have a video of Ospreys. Photos later.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85xAQL2fVBM

I figure it's appropriate to post this right now as Blue Angels jets are busy doing circuits over my head.

# ? Jul 31, 2014 19:01

Solkanar512: Dec 28, 2006; by the sex ghost

Mind if I ask a really dumb question about the V-22?

Why is it that rotors are used for thrust instead of jet engines like say a Harrier? What sort of advantages does one type of engine have over the other?

# ? Jul 31, 2014 19:56

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

Solkanar512 posted:

Mind if I ask a really dumb question about the V-22?

Why is it that rotors are used for thrust instead of jet engines like say a Harrier? What sort of advantages does one type of engine have over the other?

Low altitude performance is where a prop or rotor shines.

# ? Jul 31, 2014 19:59

MonkeyNutZ: Dec 26, 2008; "A cave isn't gonna cut it, we're going to have to use Beebo"

Efficiency be damned, I want a jet powered V-22 so I can live out my G-Police fantasies

# ? Jul 31, 2014 20:02

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

MonkeyNutZ posted:

Efficiency be damned, I want a jet powered V-22 so I can live out my G-Police fantasies

Holy poo poo my childhood.

# ? Jul 31, 2014 20:12

ctishman: Apr 26, 2005; Oh Giraffe you're havin' a laugh!

Regnevelc posted:

I got a chance to fly on a Lufthansa 747-800 yesterday from Frankfurt to Chicago. What a beautiful plane. I got the unexpected upgrade to business class which was nice.

Oooh, I wish I could have done that. Did it have the Sky interior?

# ? Jul 31, 2014 20:13

Frinkahedron: Jul 26, 2006; Gobble Gobble

Is there some way I can find out what base the F-15s I see flying overhead regularly are from? (Also spotted in the past: F-18s)

They do practice bombing runs on the Radford Army Ammunition plant in Virginia if that's any help