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Action Tortoise posted:Mass Effect 2 I won't defend the making GBS threads mining minigame in ME2, but it was still a step up from mining in ME1. Also, the party members in ME2 were way better than the ones in ME1. Except Jacob. Jacob sucked.
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Aug 5, 2014 05:20
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Cleretic posted:I think it's fair enough to criticize ME2 from being too big a departure from the original. I liked ME1, a lot, and was hoping for another game like it, which isn't really something that exists. Instead I got Gears of War with RPG elements, and while it might be good at being Gears of War with RPG elements, that isn't what I expected, nor what I wanted. ME2 being a departure from ME1 is a 100% legit reason to not like ME2, but it is not a valid criticism; this is not splitting hairs or pedantry, that's a huge and important difference. ME1 has no bearing on the quality of ME2 because when evaluating quality a work must stand on its own. ...of SCIENCE! posted:Maybe if Roger Ebert wasn't so good at trolling gamers more of them would adopt his philosophy of reviewing things for what they are rather than what you wish they were. Thank you for getting it.
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Aug 5, 2014 05:25
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Alteisen posted:
It is literally impossible to create peace between the geth and the quarians if you haven't played the previous games. ME3 has a ton of issues, but it does actually pay attention to the choices you made in previous games. Until Priority: Earth, at which point it just stops completely. Hell, aside from who's giving the Big Speech just before Anderson's HQ, I'm not sure it really pays attention to anything you did in 3, much less the previous two.
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Aug 5, 2014 06:17
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As much as I like Star Control II, the mineral collection hasn't aged very well. I wish there were more minigames to do for it. Something like Warioware or whatever. Hopefully Stardock doesn't gently caress up their spinoff.
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Aug 5, 2014 07:33
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DStecks posted:ME2 being a departure from ME1 is a 100% legit reason to not like ME2, but it is not a valid criticism; this is not splitting hairs or pedantry, that's a huge and important difference. ME1 has no bearing on the quality of ME2 because when evaluating quality a work must stand on its own. I'm not sure that's really true, though. If Mass Effect 2 had been, say, a Tetris clone, even if it were the better than regular Tetris, then I don't think anyone would be defending that. Sure Mass Effect 2 may have been a great game (which I don't agree with), but switching genres for a sequel, changing the base mechanics of how the game and player interact, is a perfectly valid subject for criticism. If we're judging it for what it is, then that ought to include how it presents itself, which is "as a continuation of Mass Effect." Which would imply similarity to Mass Effect. It's like, if The Godfather had been marketed as Apocalypse Now 2, then it would be a fair criticism to say "but this is nothing like Apocalypse Now, it should not be presented as a follow-up to it."
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Aug 5, 2014 07:40
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I just didn't like that so much of my actual time in ME2 was spent in "go here, find this person, recruit them" in ways that didn't really feel like they were advancing the overall plot a lot of the time. I get that they always threw you some kind of bone in the recruitment missions, but the ratio of "main-line story missions":"recruitment missions" felt off to me. Also, like people said, mining--mining is honestly what killed my second playthrough. I was super excited to do a renegade run before I remembered how much time I was going to have to spend playing that minigame. And I had the patience to play ME1... four times total, I think.
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Aug 5, 2014 08:32
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Mass effect kind of made it seem like it didn't matter too much what I did, from beginning to end. I played the game pretty much making GBS threads all over non-humans if it benefitted me in anyway. I still ended up uniting the galaxy, even after getting the council brutally murdered and replaced with humans. My favorite part, though, was letting the quarians get (presumably) destroyed by my bros the geth, then in the end hitting a kill switch and murdering all the robots anyways. Krogans? gently caress em, let them die out unceremoniously so we don't have to worry about that poo poo when we take over. That game really rewards space-racism.
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Aug 5, 2014 08:43
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GIANT OUIJA BOARD posted:I'm not sure that's really true, though. If Mass Effect 2 had been, say, a Tetris clone, even if it were the better than regular Tetris, then I don't think anyone would be defending that. Sure Mass Effect 2 may have been a great game (which I don't agree with), but switching genres for a sequel, changing the base mechanics of how the game and player interact, is a perfectly valid subject for criticism. If we're judging it for what it is, then that ought to include how it presents itself, which is "as a continuation of Mass Effect." Which would imply similarity to Mass Effect. It's like, if The Godfather had been marketed as Apocalypse Now 2, then it would be a fair criticism to say "but this is nothing like Apocalypse Now, it should not be presented as a follow-up to it." Yes, the big failing for Mass Effect as a franchise is the lack of cohesion. Many look at 1 generally positively, despite some failings, because it was both good and set a good foundation for the trilogy. Then 2 comes along and becomes a little divisive as it changes the game and somewhat disregards what came before it. To put it in an analogy, the first was a concrete base. It's not the prettiest, but it has it's own beauty and is promising. The sequel is a neat looking shed that stands on stilts above the foundation. Going back to the games, three comes out and heavily builds on top of while kinda disregarding two. Apparently the gameplay is great, the callbacks to choices were neat, and the story was adequate up to a very distinct point. To bring back around the building analogy, the hut now has a 5 story condo-complex situated right above it, all filled with beautiful 'quaint' living spaces, and on the top is a leaky pool. And that pool is dripping down into the condos, floor by floor, down onto the hut, and down into the foundation. Instead of a beautiful house I was hoping, there is now a condo situated on top a hut and a concrete pit that is water staining everything.
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Aug 5, 2014 08:55
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I've been playing Rock of Ages again lately and I'm nearing the end, I finally know why I stopped though. Defences don't do poo poo against the AI, so you might just not bother beyond towers and fan blowers that occasionally slow down the enemy boulder.
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Aug 5, 2014 09:16
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SomeJazzyRat posted:Yes, the big failing for Mass Effect as a franchise is the lack of cohesion. Many look at 1 generally positively, despite some failings, because it was both good and set a good foundation for the trilogy. Then 2 comes along and becomes a little divisive as it changes the game and somewhat disregards what came before it. To put it in an analogy, the first was a concrete base. It's not the prettiest, but it has it's own beauty and is promising. The sequel is a neat looking shed that stands on stilts above the foundation. Going back to the games, three comes out and heavily builds on top of while kinda disregarding two. Apparently the gameplay is great, the callbacks to choices were neat, and the story was adequate up to a very distinct point. To bring back around the building analogy, the hut now has a 5 story condo-complex situated right above it, all filled with beautiful 'quaint' living spaces, and on the top is a leaky pool. And that pool is dripping down into the condos, floor by floor, down onto the hut, and down into the foundation. Instead of a beautiful house I was hoping, there is now a condo situated on top a hut and a concrete pit that is water staining everything. A bit of a weird analogy, but I'd probably be nicer to the greater Mass Effect series if it were either more cohesive, or a series of standalones. Taken by itself, there's nothing wrong with what ME2 is, because it is a perfectly serviceable TPS with RPG elements. I hate it for what it isn't; namely, that it's too big a departure for me to honestly consider it a sequel to the original Mass Effect. Mass Effect 3 has a whole host of other problems, but I'll grant that it managed to be cohesive in that regard. It is, at the very least, Mass Effect 2-2.
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Aug 5, 2014 09:21
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Those of you that picked up Mass Effect 2 after-the-fact may not know this, but until it was patched a little while after release, probing for minerals was 3000% more tedious and frustrating. The reticle was half as big as it is now, and moved about half as fast. I know it isn't true, but I'm going to keep believing that this song http://tindeck.com/listen/lqip was the sole reason they changed it.
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Aug 5, 2014 09:30
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Even dumber, there's an upgrade you can buy that just makes the reticle move faster/more responsively. They obviously knew it was a pain in the rear end at default speed.
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Aug 5, 2014 09:33
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Alteisen posted:So I took advantage of the sale they had for Paper Mario Sticker Star. As a heads up - you need certain thing stickers to do any real damage to a boss, if you don't have 'em you'll run out of stickers and when that happens your totally hosed. Also the game is pretty much doing the same thing every-other Mario game is doing, by being unoriginal with its level stuff, grassland,desert,poison forest with the ocean thrown in, etc. They've gone from really interesting and standout chapters like the murder mystery in 2 for stuff we've seen a thousand times over thanks to the NSMB stuff.
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Aug 5, 2014 10:17
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Mass Effect 2 seemed to flounder when it wasn't about the shooting. Mineral-scanning sucked and the hacking-minigame prompted many reloads. The vehicle sections were actually pretty fun though, and that Overlord mission, where you pilot the hovercraft in the pretty scenery between shootouts with the Geth, is probably the best part of the game.
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Aug 5, 2014 11:09
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The save system in Bioshock: Infinite is stupid as hell and doesn't deserve to be in a game that otherwise exudes polish.scarycave posted:As a heads up - you need certain thing stickers to do any real damage to a boss, if you don't have 'em you'll run out of stickers and when that happens your totally hosed. Also the game is pretty much doing the same thing every-other Mario game is doing, by being unoriginal with its level stuff, grassland,desert,poison forest with the ocean thrown in, etc. Sticker Star is just not a very good game at all. By getting rid of experience, the only thing you get from battles is coins. The only things you use coins on are tough enemies/bossfights and stickers. You don't need to buy more stickers if you don't get into battles in the first place, and you really don't need coins badly enough to make fighting any trash mobs worth it. They removed a crucial part of the risk-reward equation that makes games fun and did nothing at all to try to mitigate it.
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Aug 5, 2014 14:35
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Mass Effect 2 seemed to flounder when it wasn't about the shooting. Mineral-scanning sucked and the hacking-minigame prompted many reloads. The vehicle sections were actually pretty fun though, and that Overlord mission, where you pilot the hovercraft in the pretty scenery between shootouts with the Geth, is probably the best part of the game. Hacking and mineral collecting sucked even more in ME1, which sucked at shooting on top of that. I almost never did ME2 because ME1 is such a slog. While some of you say you enjoy aspects of ME1, it's such a miserable game.
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Aug 5, 2014 14:42
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You could edit your save game to give yourself a bajillion of every mineral. I don't know why everyone didn't do this after their first few times mining.
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Aug 5, 2014 14:50
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gohuskies posted:You could edit your save game to give yourself a bajillion of every mineral. I don't know why everyone didn't do this after their first few times mining. Console too?
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Aug 5, 2014 14:53
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Ryoshi posted:The save system in Bioshock: Infinite is stupid as hell and doesn't deserve to be in a game that otherwise exudes polish. Once you reach the snow level, enemies literally bleed coins. The only thing coins are good for is to save you on back-tracking Things. I also really like you can't choose targets. Especially during the final fight. Also, as a late game thing Bowser's castle sucks balls.
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Aug 5, 2014 15:18
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kazil posted:Hacking and mineral collecting sucked even more in ME1, which sucked at shooting on top of that. Some of you claim to have enjoyed Mass Effect 1, however I did not enjoy it so you must be lying.
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Aug 5, 2014 16:04
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2house2fly posted:Some of you claim to have enjoyed Mass Effect 1, however I did not enjoy it so you must be lying. Not saying people are lying, I was just posting my experience in response to those saying ME2 was a disappointment for them. From a technical standpoint, ME1 is just not that good at many of its aspects.
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Aug 5, 2014 16:06
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I don't see why people get so mad over ME2 planet scanning. Unless you were going full sperg, you had to do it for maybe five minutes, at which point it was a nice Uncharted Worlds soundtrack-break from shooting mans. There were like three (I think?) plot important upgrades, which were blatantly telegraphed by your crew going HEY COMMANDER I DON'T THINK THE SHIP IS UP TO SNUFF.
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Aug 5, 2014 16:30
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It would have been nice if you were given the option to sell minerals as money in the game is finite otherwise.
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Aug 5, 2014 16:53
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GIANT OUIJA BOARD posted:If we're judging it for what it is, then that ought to include how it presents itself, which is "as a continuation of Mass Effect." Drive was marketed heavily as an action film, despite not being one at all. Does that make it bad? Coming back to Inglourious Basterds, you could argue that the whole point of the film is that you're expecting it to be a rip-roaring action flick and it isn't. Is Inglourious Basterds bad for not being an action movie? I am not trying to tell you that you're wrong for not liking ME2, because reasons for liking something or not liking it can never be wrong. I am saying, though, that "this isn't what I thought it was/should be" is never a valid criticism, no matter how much you think it should be something else. Think of it this way: pretend I'm Mr. Mxyzptlk, and I use my reality warping magic to make all trace of ME1 vanish from existence. Would this mean that ME2 is now better? Because to me, that's self-evidently nonsense. And I don't want to single anybody out here, I think people confusing "this is bad" and "I didn't like it" is one of the biggest problems in video game criticism.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:25
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"This isn't what I thought it was/should be" is a valid criticism of the marketing though. If a product doesn't match what's on the tin I think people have some right to be disappointed or even upset. Can't say if that's the case here, didn't play ME and don't care to, just pointing it out.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:38
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The difference is whether a work is relying on the misinformation or if it accidentally stumbles across it. I doubt ME2 was supposed to be an intentional subversion of our expectations.
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Aug 5, 2014 19:11
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They changed something about Wander's grip in the HD port of Shadow of the Colossus, so now when a Colossus even thinks about moving, he flops around entirely too much and entirely too long. It is REALLY annoying. Especially since certain ones, like the third Colossus, start thrashing around almost nonstop when you get over their weakpoint(s).
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Aug 5, 2014 19:27
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I think that despite very much enjoying the Mass Effect games when they came out, but now desiring to never ever play them again, stands out as a pretty decent criticism.
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Aug 5, 2014 19:30
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SpookyLizard posted:I think that despite very much enjoying the Mass Effect games when they came out, but now desiring to never ever play them again, stands out as a pretty decent criticism. Yeah, I played through 1 quite a few times, always intended to get around to 2, and because of the debacle with 3 I don't even want to bother with any of them.
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Aug 5, 2014 20:46
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DStecks posted:Drive was marketed heavily as an action film, despite not being one at all. Does that make it bad? That is a bad comparison though, because that is the marketing, and the people who make the film are rarely involved in making the trailers, plus the trailer is made after the film. If Drive was titled "Lethal Weapon 5" and written, pitched, funded and then marketed as a lethal weapon film from the start of its production then it would be a better comparison. As much as "you should judge a work on its own merits not on what it could have been" is something I broadly agree with, its a bit murkier when you are working with sequels because a sequel has an established cast, genre and some gameplay mechanics that people will expect, and the developers know that from day one. Plus there are works (across movies, games and books) that I have no compunction about saying "They took an interesting concept/setting and completely wasted their chnce to do anything with it", and that is in effect comparing it to a hypothetical "might have been". If Mass Effect 2 had been titled "The Adromeda chronicles" then it would be unfair to judge it based on ME1, but making a sequel has advantages (brand recognition, chance to tell a longer story) but also brings with it certain baggage. Personally I have no dog in this fight because I didnt like Mass Effect 1 OR 2 (didnt play 3 because I didnt like 1 and 2) albeit both for different reasons. Played I think 2 out of the 3 planets with recruitablle characters in ME1, then quit because I didnt enjoy the combat. ME2 had marginally better shooting mechanics but bored the piss out of me, so I played less of it because I kind of felt "well, this is different, but it isnt better". Luckily I'd just been loaned that one. I can never understand why out of all the RPGs out there, mass effect was the one that managed to sell eleventy billion copies to people who dont normally play the genre. I know more than a couple of people who have completed the mass effect games multiple times but have never played any other RPGs for more than about an hour before giving up. I'm not saying they are objectively bad games or anything, its just I really dont enjoy them, despite liking all the component parts (RPGs, Sci Fi/Space Opera and Shooters).
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Aug 5, 2014 20:50
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DStecks posted:Drive was marketed heavily as an action film, despite not being one at all. Does that make it bad? Coming back to Inglourious Basterds, you could argue that the whole point of the film is that you're expecting it to be a rip-roaring action flick and it isn't. Is Inglourious Basterds bad for not being an action movie? D Agree to disagree and let it go. Bitch about games and not how to criticize. Please.
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Aug 5, 2014 20:52
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I got drunk with a buddy and we popped Drive expecting an action film. We both loving hated Drive after that. The comparison is way apt, I'd say.
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Aug 5, 2014 21:25
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scarycave posted:As a heads up - you need certain thing stickers to do any real damage to a boss, if you don't have 'em you'll run out of stickers and when that happens your totally hosed. Also the game is pretty much doing the same thing every-other Mario game is doing, by being unoriginal with its level stuff, grassland,desert,poison forest with the ocean thrown in, etc. I noticed, I reached the first boss today, I died , fought him again and then the crown thing came out and gave me a clue, one more death to go get the fan and then the boss became trivial. Seems like pretty lovely designed overall, I had no clue I needed the fan or a pair of scissors.
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Aug 5, 2014 22:31
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Simply Simon posted:I got drunk with a buddy and we popped Drive expecting an action film. We both loving hated Drive after that. The comparison is way apt, I'd say. Sorry about your total lack of taste in films  that has to suck for you
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Aug 5, 2014 22:35
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Chard posted:Sorry about your total lack of taste in films
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Aug 5, 2014 22:38
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Cleretic posted:As the resident person with The Wrong Opinions in regards to western RPGs (Oblivion is better than Skyrim, by the way), I will step up to bat for ME1. Hahaha, well poo poo I withdraw all my criticism of ME2.
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Aug 5, 2014 22:47
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Chard posted:Sorry about your total lack of taste in films I have an autistic friend who really likes Drive because it's juuuuust subtle enough for him to get it.
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Aug 5, 2014 23:20
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Alteisen posted:So I took advantage of the sale they had for Paper Mario Sticker Star. Sticker Star was basically an RPG with all of the elements that make an RPG fun stripped out with way more inventory management to make up for it.
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Aug 5, 2014 23:32
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Miyamoto seems to get a lot of flack for making the most recent Paper Mario bland and featureless. Had he any real input in the previous titles?
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Aug 5, 2014 23:47
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Miyamoto seems to get a lot of flack for making the most recent Paper Mario bland and featureless. Had he any real input in the previous titles? Miyamoto strategy right now seems to be - recycle everything. I get that old games have been getting a fair amount of attention what with the virtual console and other things and maybe he's just trying to recreate that - but its not working. I couldn't bring myself to play and of the NSMB's after the Wii one. New Super Mario World though seems to be a good direction though (even if its just adding a new power up or whatever).
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Aug 5, 2014 23:52
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