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Powershift posted:looks like a mini f-type. The arc on top makes me think Elise.
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Aug 9, 2014 04:58
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Bovril Delight posted:Except there really isn't. That's what killed the compact trucks in the beginning. People are dumb and see that they can get a bigger truck for just a bit more. The sales numbers for compact to full size trucks are miles away from compact to midsize cars. People in the US equate size as a measure of quality. This, there's a reason the US Ranger and S10 are gone and the Colorado is midway in size between the S10 and the full-size line. Small trucks are good, American buyers are bad.
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Aug 9, 2014 05:58
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It has got little to do with the US - the international versions of the Colorado/Dmax, Ranger, Hilux, Navara etc are all a lot bigger than the 90s models
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Aug 9, 2014 06:00
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dissss posted:It has got little to do with the US - the international versions of the Colorado/Dmax, Ranger, Hilux, Navara etc are all a lot bigger than the 90s models The Nissan Navara is huge these days, I am sure it is almost the size of a F-150.
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Aug 9, 2014 07:59
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Sure it's big but it isn't any bigger than any of the competitors. Still significantly smaller than an F150.
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Aug 9, 2014 09:16
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dissss posted:Sure it's big but it isn't any bigger than any of the competitors. Still significantly smaller than an F150. I wouldn't say it's "significantly" smaller, and the canyon is going to be larger. reg cab 6'5 box f-150: 213 x 79 x 75 and est. 4200lbs ext cab 6' box frontier: 205.5 x 73 x 69 4140lbs ext cab 6' box canyon: 208 x 73 x 79 3959lbs crew cab 6' box frontier: 219 x 73 x 70 4250lbs crew cab 6' box canyon 224 x 74 x 79 4266lbs crew cab 5'5 box f150: 232 x 79 x 75 4475lbs
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Aug 9, 2014 09:44
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The Navara only comes with a much shorter bed than that
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Aug 9, 2014 10:05
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Bovril Delight posted:Except there really isn't. That's what killed the compact trucks in the beginning. People are dumb and see that they can get a bigger truck for just a bit more. The sales numbers for compact to full size trucks are miles away from compact to midsize cars. People in the US equate size as a measure of quality. Dumb? If the mileage is similar it's not like the US has a ton of unmarked street parking or tiny pre-car roads so there's not really a lot of real benefit to a smaller car for most people if it's not any more expensive to buy or run. And a bigger car will typically be more comfortable for highway cruising and more versatile for when you're carpooling or carrying stuff so naturally people want the biggest car that doesn't cost too much for gas.
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Aug 9, 2014 10:16
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fknlo posted:I don't care if the Canyon comes in at a higher price than a somewhat comparable full size after discounts are taken into account. I don't loving need something as big as a full size truck. I don't want anything that big either. I don't really want a truck, but the Canyon Diesel is going to be the closest thing to what I want/need in a vehicle that you can buy in the US. They're smart with their marketing towards active people with kayaks and bikes and camping shots in the press releases. That's what got me interested. Bovril Delight posted:Except there really isn't. That's what killed the compact trucks in the beginning. People are dumb and see that they can get a bigger truck for just a bit more. The sales numbers for compact to full size trucks are miles away from compact to midsize cars. People in the US equate size as a measure of quality. Cream_Filling posted:Dumb? If the mileage is similar it's not like the US has a ton of unmarked street parking or tiny pre-car roads so there's not really a lot of real benefit to a smaller car for most people if it's not any more expensive to buy or run. And a bigger car will typically be more comfortable for highway cruising and more versatile for when you're carpooling or carrying stuff so naturally people want the biggest car that doesn't cost too much for gas. I think the compact car versus mid-size car comparison isn't apt here. Car buyers and truck buyers have wildly different mindsets and mentalities. I chose to buy a loaded compact instead of a mid-size because I could get way more car for my money at a dramatically reduced price. I could get the best possible Hyundai Elantra GT for $25k. A loaded Ford Fusion or Hyundai Sonata was going to cost me nearly $40k -- admittedly with feature not available on the Elantra -- but still, that's a $15k differential. Plus, I'd be giving up significant fuel economy. As a small car buyer, I'm not interested in a dick waving contest about size -- my concerns are price, attractiveness, efficiency, and practicality. My trade-offs were a smaller cabin and car for way less money and way better fuel economy. Both the money and the fuel economy numbers weren't even close. Truck buyers are concerned about size, power, muscle, toughness, etc. Totally different concerns here. And, like everyone's pointing out -- the truck prices are clustered much closer together when you do any sort of add-ons -- and the fuel economy numbers aren't going to be wildly different. Compact car versus mid-size car: Dramatic price differential, dramatic fuel economy differential in a market where shoppers aren't as concerned with size, but *do* care about price and economy. Compact truck versus half-ton truck: Small price differential, small fuel economy differential in a market where shoppers are very concerned with size, but *aren't* as concerned about price and economy.
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Aug 11, 2014 16:19
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A base Canyon is about $6k less than a base Sierra, so that's a fairly large differential. The gap isn't quite as big between the two Chevy's though (about $3k). I would think that fleet buyers would be fairly sensitive to fuel economy, but I haven't seen any numbers for the I4's yet. If they can get it close to 30 mpg highway (not sure how realistic that is), it might sway some people away from the ancient Tacoma/Frontier. Also don't trucks sell for way below MSRP in general? Bouillon Rube fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Aug 11, 2014 |
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Aug 11, 2014 17:46
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Augmented Dickey posted:A base Canyon is about $6k less than a base Sierra, so that's a fairly large differential. The gap isn't quite as big between the two Chevy's though (about $3k). Not Tacomas, but domestic half tons always end up going with $10k incentive on the hood.
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Aug 11, 2014 18:01
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BigBadBrewsta posted:I think the compact car versus mid-size car comparison isn't apt here. Car buyers and truck buyers have wildly different mindsets and mentalities. I chose to buy a loaded compact instead of a mid-size because I could get way more car for my money at a dramatically reduced price. I could get the best possible Hyundai Elantra GT for $25k. A loaded Ford Fusion or Hyundai Sonata was going to cost me nearly $40k -- admittedly with feature not available on the Elantra -- but still, that's a $15k differential. Plus, I'd be giving up significant fuel economy. As a small car buyer, I'm not interested in a dick waving contest about size -- my concerns are price, attractiveness, efficiency, and practicality. My trade-offs were a smaller cabin and car for way less money and way better fuel economy. Both the money and the fuel economy numbers weren't even close. You must not have done much research when buying your compact car then. Hyundai Elantra GT 2.0L - 24/27/33mpg Hyundai Sonata 2.4L - 25/29/37mpg Also the only way the Sonata is anywhere near that top end price you are using is if its a 2L Turbo model (tops out around $35k) which doesnt compare at all to the Elantra GT's engine. With the 2.4L motor in the Sonata you're looking more like $30k for a well equipped model. The price difference isn't nearly as much as you're making it out to be. You bought a smaller less comfortable car for a small amount less money that gets worse fuel economey.
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Aug 11, 2014 21:41
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kill me now posted:You must not have done much research when buying your compact car then. Maybe he bought it before the KIA/Hyundai fuel consumption "revisions".
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Aug 11, 2014 23:56
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a primate posted:Maybe he bought it before the KIA/Hyundai fuel consumption "revisions". Im honestly starting to think those revisions would bullshit. Motortrend tested the Optima EX as part of their "the big test" of midsized sedans and and they were able to beat the EPA rating by 4mpg while all the other cars were at or below their combined rating. They also had their long term Rio SX tester and over 39k miles they had exactly the 34mpg combined that it was originally rated. Kia should have stood their ground and told all the complainants that they should learn how to drive like normal drivers.
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Aug 12, 2014 02:03
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The EPA test is bullshit. Their 'highway' test is worthless. Average speed of 48mph and top speed of 60mph. I personally feel the bullshit EPA test results in more fuel being used as gearing in vehicles is optimized for the bullshit test. I routinely cruise at 70 to 85 mph (Texas) and fuel economy could be better if it was geared for max efficiency at real world highway speeds. Luckily transmissions with more gears are addressing this. Re: truck chat here in Texas full size trucks regularly sell for 12 to 14k off MSRP. Best deal I ever saw was about 16K off
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Aug 12, 2014 03:54
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Have there been any detailed shots of the seats that will be in the 2015 Hellcat? I found some white and black seats, but then I also saw some camel colored ones but the bolsters looked very different. I wasn't sure how many seat configurations the 2015 Challengers would have. The few I found of the interior were just partial shots of the bottoms of the seats. My dad all of a sudden is really into the idea of trying to pick one of these up and I wanted to see if I could find full interior shots anywhere.
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Aug 12, 2014 04:12
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skipdogg posted:The EPA test is bullshit. Their 'highway' test is worthless. Average speed of 48mph and top speed of 60mph. I personally feel the bullshit EPA test results in more fuel being used as gearing in vehicles is optimized for the bullshit test. I routinely cruise at 70 to 85 mph (Texas) and fuel economy could be better if it was geared for max efficiency at real world highway speeds. Luckily transmissions with more gears are addressing this. The EPA test was obviously based upon Seattle drivers.
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Aug 12, 2014 04:19
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That Colorado is loving enormous. Just for reference, the shortest variant is 208 inches, which is as long as a 7th-gen (mid-80s) long-bed Ford F-150. That gives you roughly 8 inches to work with in a standard 18-foot parking spot. The longer versions are 213 and 225 inches. Even the 2WD version is 5 inches taller than the Ford 4WD fullsize. Spec pages generally don't list bed length but I'd bet that's way higher as well. Yet bed length in the longest version barely reaches to where the short bed was on a mid-80s Toyota Hi-Lux, a much smaller truck.
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Aug 12, 2014 05:25
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skipdogg posted:The EPA test is bullshit. Their 'highway' test is worthless. Average speed of 48mph and top speed of 60mph. I personally feel the bullshit EPA test results in more fuel being used as gearing in vehicles is optimized for the bullshit test. I routinely cruise at 70 to 85 mph (Texas) and fuel economy could be better if it was geared for max efficiency at real world highway speeds. Luckily transmissions with more gears are addressing this. I don't understand why we get those retarded loving dumbed-down numbers in the first place. Just make it mandatory for the OEs to publish their BSFC numbers, and speed/load burn tables. They have the data already, they just don't release it.
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Aug 12, 2014 12:53
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PBCrunch posted:That is ambitious pricing. The Tacoma starts $2000 cheaper and has the Toyota repuation. I don't think GM is going to have a lot of luck selling these without $3000 on the hood. Yeah the Tacoma, with it's decade old 2.7 inline 4 and 4 speed auto. Or the 3.7 v6 that isn't topping 250hp. That is hardly a high bar to meet. Coredump fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Aug 12, 2014 |
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Aug 12, 2014 13:52
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skipdogg posted:Re: truck chat here in Texas full size trucks regularly sell for 12 to 14k off MSRP. Best deal I ever saw was about 16K off Located in Michigan and with an employee discount on a 2014 RAM 1500- Employee Buy: $31,495 26Z Bighorn Edition, Hemi, Luxury Equip Grp, Heated Seats, Remote Start, Navigation, Spray Bedliner, 20" Chrome Wheels, Auto, A/C, Pwr Windows/Locks/Mirrors, and Much More! MSRP: $46,315 #92891 That's $14,820 off, though I'm not sure how much of that is employee discount.
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Aug 12, 2014 13:52
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Snowdens Secret posted:That Colorado is loving enormous. Just for reference, the shortest variant is 208 inches, That's for the extended cab with the 6ft bed. Which is the exact same size as the extended cab Tacoma with a 6ft bed. The crew cab with the 5ft bed is 212 inches. A whopping 4 inches more than the comparable Tacoma. So it's about the same size as the competition. The design makes it look huger.
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Aug 12, 2014 14:20
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Modus Man posted:Located in Michigan and with an employee discount on a 2014 RAM 1500-
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Aug 12, 2014 14:22
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My coworker bought a 2014 Silverado for sticker (~$50,000) when they came out because he just had to have it and they weren't being discounted, even with tons of money on the hood of (arguably superior) F150's and Rams. Less than a year later and there's tons of money on the hood, because they suck and that's what always happens. I bought my 2011 Titan with a sticker of $48,000, for $31000 in 2011. Woop Woop
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Aug 12, 2014 16:16
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When Chevy changed it's lineup sometime in 2009, they still had shitload of unsold lat year models sitting on the lot. The sales manager straight up asked what I want to pay for one of those.
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Aug 12, 2014 16:43
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Is Truecar completely full of crap? All I see is around 7% under MSRP on a not even loaded up 2014. These things are still way too expensive.
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Aug 12, 2014 17:34
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Keyser S0ze posted:Is Truecar completely full of crap? All I see is around 7% under MSRP on a not even loaded up 2014. These things are still way too expensive. Truecar is not what it used to be. Because they got sued, they now list pre-negotiated pricing from dealers they contract with. You can always beat TrueCar.
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Aug 12, 2014 17:56
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ah, that explains it. I always found it spot the gently caress on for BMW's and what people are reporting as their negotiated prices on the various Bimmerfest/Bimmerpost forums as well as my own experience back in 2012. Still spot on for BMW's (not including previous customer/other incentives). gently caress you GM 
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Aug 12, 2014 18:14
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It could that your particular zipcode just really likes Chevy trucks, I find the "national" average is usually a bit lower, presumably because Galpin or whatever in California sells like 30% of all the vehicles in the whole country.
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Aug 12, 2014 18:26
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eyebeem posted:My coworker bought a 2014 Silverado for sticker (~$50,000) when they came out because he just had to have it and they weren't being discounted, even with tons of money on the hood of (arguably superior) F150's and Rams. Less than a year later and there's tons of money on the hood, because they suck and that's what always happens. My memory is far from perfect but I remember someone getting one or similar truck for around $14k in 2008 when everybody went retarded and were paying thousand of dollars for Geo Metros.  Edit: I don't think it was stickered anywhere near that high though. Must have been a base model or whatever.
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Aug 12, 2014 18:32
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CharlesM posted:My memory is far from perfect but I remember someone getting one or similar truck for around $14k in 2008 when everybody went retarded and were paying thousand of dollars for Geo Metros. I owned a mid level Titan back around 2008 that I bought for $17,000. It had a sticker of around $32k.
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Aug 12, 2014 18:46
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kill me now posted:You must not have done much research when buying your compact car then. I bought a 2013 GT with the 1.8L engine. It's EPA rated 37 MPG highway and I routinely hit 40+. With the 2014 model only coming with the 2.0L engine, I'd go buy a Mazda3 hatch instead. The new Mazda3's weren't out when I was car shopping. But you're right, I didn't cross shop in a fair way. I was only comparing the highest-end GT versus the highest-end mid-size sedans, which on the Elantra GT is $25k, the Ford Fusion is nearly $40k and the Sonata is $35k. It's not a fair comparison because both of those mid-sizes have turbocharged engines and the Fusion has AWD, too, and loads of other features the Elantra GT doesn't have. I was only comparing "fully loaded" models, because the 'sperging side of me needs to know I have every feature available. I was never trying to argue "all things equal except chassis and cabin size". You can shrink the price differential and MPG differential significantly when you do that. It wasn't a fully baked argument and I'll admit it.
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Aug 12, 2014 18:59
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http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/16/dodge-mystery-small-pickup-fiat-rampage-spy/ Not sure how useful the Fiat Strada would be in terms of cargo capacity but a fuel efficient diesel with 4x4, a manual transmission and a bed would be fantastic all around vehicle. http://www.autoblog.com/2012/09/20/2013-fiat-strada-first-drive-review/ 
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Aug 12, 2014 19:14
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Throatwarbler posted:It could that your particular zipcode just really likes Chevy trucks, I find the "national" average is usually a bit lower, presumably because Galpin or whatever in California sells like 30% of all the vehicles in the whole country. It was around $1k difference from hipster SF (Stewart Chevy Colma) to bro-truck Sacramento so yeah a bit.
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Aug 12, 2014 19:47
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Bulk Vanderhuge posted:http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/16/dodge-mystery-small-pickup-fiat-rampage-spy/ Strada is Italian for road, El Camino is Spanish.
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Aug 12, 2014 20:24
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Bulk Vanderhuge posted:http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/16/dodge-mystery-small-pickup-fiat-rampage-spy/ This is cool as heck, but if they do the 'Promaster' treatment to it it's going to be hideous.
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Aug 12, 2014 20:30
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These were taken on Sunday, iirc    ND Miata.
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Aug 13, 2014 03:39
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Snowdens Secret posted:That Colorado is loving enormous. Just for reference, the shortest variant is 208 inches, which is as long as a 7th-gen (mid-80s) long-bed Ford F-150. That gives you roughly 8 inches to work with in a standard 18-foot parking spot. The longer versions are 213 and 225 inches. Even the 2WD version is 5 inches taller than the Ford 4WD fullsize. Spec pages generally don't list bed length but I'd bet that's way higher as well. Yet bed length in the longest version barely reaches to where the short bed was on a mid-80s Toyota Hi-Lux, a much smaller truck. After much research, I have discovered what the typical Texan wants in a vehicle. 
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Aug 13, 2014 03:53
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KillHour posted:After much research, I have discovered what the typical Texan wants in a vehicle. Interestingly:  ...was introduced under W Bush, if I remember right. I know he's from loving Connecticut shut up
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Aug 13, 2014 06:33
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KillHour posted:After much research, I have discovered what the typical Texan wants in a vehicle. As a Texan I can confirm that I want one. Can you put a fuckoff sized brush guard on it, giant LED light bar and some 20" XD rims with 35" tires? If so I bet they couldn't make them fast enough
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Aug 13, 2014 06:58
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