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Herp isn't funny in the slightest and the Germans had much less collective experience with CM. That's about all I took from reading this game.
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Aug 15, 2014 15:13
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The videos are getting better what with more replays of zoomed in action on the relevant hotspots, but seriously, the portions of "Zoom all the way out, play a minute+ of indistinguishable movement that is barely visible even on max video quality" does nothing for the LP.
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Aug 15, 2014 16:38
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Jeoh posted:The Germans should get some Königstigers, to represent Hitler's fury for losing the train station. I'm not sure about Red Thunder, but in the older CM they were slow pieces of poo poo that would get bogged if the mere thought of crossing less than perfect ground entered your mind. So just like reality. Plus IS-2's and ISU-152's have no trouble killing them. If the next battle is a Russian defence the deal should be both teams keep their forces with heavily damaged units merged. On top of that they both get points for reinforcements, with the attackers getting double the points the defenders get.
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Aug 15, 2014 16:53
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Leif. posted:The videos are getting better what with more replays of zoomed in action on the relevant hotspots, but seriously, the portions of "Zoom all the way out, play a minute+ of indistinguishable movement that is barely visible even on max video quality" does nothing for the LP. Yeah, I think the better way to do it is medium zoom on a couple areas at a time - here's a minute at medium zoom of the left flank, here's the minute at medium zoom of the right flank, here's 10 seconds of the tank getting killed up close, that kind of thing. A little bit longer but the better information is important. Also it seemed like in the CM:Normandy ones (especially the second) players had more info on the state of their troops. Right now there are Soviet players complaining why their troops aren't moving and they don't know that it's because they're tired and exhausted.
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Aug 15, 2014 17:04
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Yeah, this is something I can work on. The long zoomed out shot was something people wanted from the first LP, so I kinda kept with that. Also, if we're going to redistribute teams, I'm thinking about letting everyone back into this thread, then allowing them to watch the last videos before we split up again. If we do that, then we will be going with the points to spend option.
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Aug 15, 2014 17:09
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Honestly I really prefer *having* the long zoom shot as opposed to *not* having it, it makes my mental map of the game a lot easier to construct. Just skip it if you don't like it.
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Aug 15, 2014 17:34
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Grey Hunter posted:Yeah, this is something I can work on. The long zoomed out shot was something people wanted from the first LP, so I kinda kept with that. In that case I'd prefer the convert to points option, since I want to get in on this.
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Aug 15, 2014 17:45
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I think maybe Grey should recruit some neutral map-maker with access to the save file to draw arrows and labels on the maps...
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Aug 15, 2014 17:57
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So why wans't Unwantedplatypus told to gently caress off when he said he wanted to be commander while having zero experience with the game? This is a complex game, you should give the higher positions to experienced people. I hope the teams get more balanced in the next match, in a way i can't fault him because he didn't know much about the game but he did volunteer for that position. Also, someone tell them to stop that slapfight, if it keeps going i'm pretty sure some idiot will start cheating to make sure he always keeps the upper hand. Fangz posted:Well, if the next battle is going to be a Soviet attack, stuff like that AT gun is going to be pretty useless for them, so they would be able to swap them out for stuff. wait, why would they attack? The Germans are the ones retreating.
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Aug 15, 2014 18:49
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Yes, a Soviet attack moving towards Berlin, with the Germans defending as they go
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Aug 15, 2014 19:28
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Remora posted:Honestly I really prefer *having* the long zoom shot as opposed to *not* having it, it makes my mental map of the game a lot easier to construct. Just skip it if you don't like it. It really doesn't do anything the screenshots don't do, because you can't really see any of the movement that well, nor can you see what happens to troops other than maybe a unit bubble flickering yellow. Seriously, if you can't get your head around the map from the screenshots accompanying the video, there is nothing the video is going to do to help other than waste everyone's time. At the very least, make it the last clip in the video.
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Aug 15, 2014 19:32
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simplefish posted:Yes, a Soviet attack moving towards Berlin, with the Germans defending as they go I would think that if the objective is the train station, the Soviets are holding it and the Germans will regroup for an attack that night or the next day. A night attack could be an interesting change to the battlefield.
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Aug 15, 2014 20:31
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I'm not sure how much replay value a map really has in a situation like this. With mostly the same forces, and if we're having the Soviets dug in as they are now, it removes a fair bit of the interest for me, at least. A night attack does sound good, though.
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Aug 15, 2014 20:36
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I'd say a new map with the Soviets attacking, keeping the same map is rather dull.
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Aug 15, 2014 20:40
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Grey Hunter posted:Yeah, this is something I can work on. The long zoomed out shot was something people wanted from the first LP, so I kinda kept with that. Letting everyone into the common thread seems necessary at this point. Several dead commanders already rejoined and the Germans need a chance to reorganize and, more importantly, re-energize for the coming battle. Getting them some fresh blood and maybe shaking up teams will do a lot to overcome the participation rot that set in as the Uncle Joes worked their magic. Edit: Ha, it seems Herp has already been kicked to the Russian Liberation Army ShinyBirdTeeth fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Aug 15, 2014 |
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Aug 15, 2014 21:09
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The Germans are giving up already? But they still have a Panther.
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Aug 15, 2014 22:20
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Experience or not, I'm not sure how much Germany could have actually done that round. The IS-2s had a commanding presence on the entire map right out of spawn and were made of heavy stuff - the panthers would have had trouble penetrating it from the front and that's about the only angle they'd get. If those IS-2s were another platoon of T-34s this battle would have been a lot more even and Germany wouldn't have a significant amount of points to explosion-snipers. poo poo's crazy. On the flip side, I think this battle might be a wake up call that the small expense for transports is actually worth it because we spent a month walking to the loving battlefield. That said, I'm pretty confident in saying this battle was hurt by a pretty terrible map.
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Aug 15, 2014 22:32
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Mans posted:So why wans't Unwantedplatypus told to gently caress off when he said he wanted to be commander while having zero experience with the game? Because no one volunteered. I put in a 'only if no one else wants it' deal but my only previous experience comes from a previous Grey thread. (My platoon bagged a Sherman though.  ) Mostly though that shouldn't have necessarily been a problem. Grey let us take a mulligan on the forces we deployed and we didn't really make any unsound decisions based on lack of experience per say, more lack of specifics (e.g. 'what can and can't be seen from the treeline?') which the Russians had answered not by their CO's infinite wisdom but by someone firing up the game and checking. The failure in command there was not the lack of knowledge but the failure to address that lack.Gamerofthegame posted:Experience or not, I'm not sure how much Germany could have actually done that round. The IS-2s had a commanding presence on the entire map right out of spawn and were made of heavy stuff - the panthers would have had trouble penetrating it from the front and that's about the only angle they'd get. If those IS-2s were another platoon of T-34s this battle would have been a lot more even and Germany wouldn't have a significant amount of points to explosion-snipers. Also this. I have no idea what we were supposed to have done about those aside from avoid them. A few mortar rounds would have maybe forced them to button up but... that's about it. We lost this at unit selection and I'm not sure, based on some discussions in here, what else we could have brought. Last time Grey ran this the Germans got a lot of poo poo for loading up on armor (after a legendary Pointless LP Shitfit the dwarfs even Herpiderp here) though I think that armor all threw their tracks in like the first minute.
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Aug 15, 2014 22:54
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The map was probably too small. The IS-2s were able to see a decent portion of the map from their spot and the few river fords made for obvious and easy targets. A bigger map would have kept one or two tanks from being game-changers and wouldn't have made the German artillery targeting the ford quite so easy to aim. The plus was quicker time-to-combat, which was an issue in the previous games, but doing the first five minutes as a chunk helped there too.
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Aug 15, 2014 23:08
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It is incredible how much more unlikable Herpicle has become post-German surrender.
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Aug 15, 2014 23:45
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Can mortars fire smoke shells in this game? They could historically, though the ammunition was not always plentiful. It seems like a way to neutralize the impenetrable IS-2s temporarily while everyone crossed the river.
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Aug 16, 2014 00:23
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I think the Germans could have just avoided the IS-2s. They should have moved the bulk of their forces over the river right away, and they should have used the ford closest to their edge of the map. They lost that one tank with a whole infantry squad on the back early on because they moved over that ford near the middle of the map and unnecessarily exposed the side and rear of their tanks. They could have moved their tanks through the little stretch of woods near their spawn and gone straight over the river right away. The IS-2s would have had a lot of trouble dealing with German tanks hidden behind buildings in ambush positions, or German tanks zipping back and forth from cover to cover. You don't wanna keep tanks exposed for more than a few seconds, especially if the enemy has better tanks than you. The Germans kept driving their tanks around out in the open and getting them blown up. The Germans had tons of MG42s as well, and they should have been constantly area firing toward any suspected Russian positions. Fire superiority is pretty much the one thing that matters the most in this game. Even the IS-2s could have been knocked out pretty easily if the Germans managed to concentrate their tank fire at them all at once. Invader Zym posted:Can mortars fire smoke shells in this game? They could historically, though the ammunition was not always plentiful. It seems like a way to neutralize the impenetrable IS-2s temporarily while everyone crossed the river. Yeah, smoke can be highly effective in this game sometimes. You can use smoke to cover your movement, but I think a better way to use it is to fire smoke at one section of the enemy line while you concentrate all of your firepower on another part of their line. You can divide enemy positions into nice, easily digestible chunks using smoke. Ivan Shitskin fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Aug 16, 2014 |
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Aug 16, 2014 00:54
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Kenzie posted:I think the Germans could have just avoided the IS-2s. Smoke Smoke Smoke. I will never understand why smoke wasn't lobbed for turns on end to scrap any possibility of using the corner of the woods where the IS-2's were. Also, my HMG teams were boned from the start without any halftracks or movement. The fact that we kept so many infantry assets so far down south without having them attack the forest was weird.
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Aug 16, 2014 01:33
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Smoke Smoke Smoke. Same reason the Germasn kept blundering into IS-2 line of sight even after they knew exactly where they were, high command was non-committal so there was nobody to say no don't do that.
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Aug 16, 2014 01:39
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uPen posted:Same reason the Germasn kept blundering into IS-2 line of sight even after they knew exactly where they were, high command was non-committal so there was nobody to say no don't do that. Well for me its all hindsight at this point. I can go on about how this should've done that or "this would've been my plan". Not having played this game ever, and not getting an answer if it's comparable with Theater of War, I preferred not stepping on any toes and just seeing how things go. That plan went well! 
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Aug 16, 2014 01:42
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There's a certain amount of irony about Herp being exiled to the Germns after the messages he sent. Herp: bringing Fascist and Bolshevik together at last!
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Aug 16, 2014 02:07
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sniper4625 posted:There's a certain amount of irony about Herp being exiled to the Germans after the messages he sent. Speaking of, are there mines in this game? Will the Soviets have time to reinforce their defense with them?
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Aug 16, 2014 02:10
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sniper4625 posted:There's a certain amount of irony about Herp being exiled to the Germns after the messages he sent. He just wants to tear down the Berlin Wall... with a 2x4 and a ballpeen hammer. And copious amounts of artillery
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Aug 16, 2014 02:11
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Pierzak posted:I hope the Germans take his messages to heart and go "gently caress off, the most you'll get is a living mine detector" Normandy has mines, I haven't played with mines in Red Thunder but I assume it would have them.
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Aug 16, 2014 02:11
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I actually think it was a mistake to leave the IS-2s just sitting there like that for so long. It ended up working well for them, but the Germans could have taken advantage of it and knocked them out while they were sitting there exposed up on that hill. The Germans could see them and knew exactly where they were facing. If the Germans had kept their armor hidden behind hard cover, such as small rises in the terrain or the buildings in that village, there would be nothing the IS-2s could do to them. The Germans could have forced the IS-2s to button up with harassing small arms or mortar fire, and then rolled their own tanks out of cover, unbuttoned, and with target arcs pointed directly at the IS-2s. This would make them almost guaranteed to get the first shot off. They could have used shoot and scoot tactics. They could have rolled them out of cover with their turrets pointed right at the IS-2s, had them pause for 10 seconds or so, and then reverse back into cover again. Even if the German tanks failed to spot the IS-2s or failed to penetrate in those 10 seconds, the IS-2s would still not have had time to fire back at them. The German tanks just blundered around out in the open instead. I don't really blame them because this is kind of an awkward way to play the game, and so many of them hadn't played the game before, but I don't think the Germans were destined to fail right from the beginning or anything. Pierzak posted:Speaking of, are there mines in this game? Yeah there are. There are engineer units that can mark mines as well. You can mark the mines so that infantry can move through them, but slowly. If you have infantry run through a marked minefield, they still might step on some of them. You will have to walk them or crawl them through. I don't think engineers can clear minefields completely, only mark them. You can clear minefields with explosives however. You can drop artillery on a minefield and it will detonate some or all of the mines, and you can also drive tanks over anti-personnel minefields and detonate enough of them for infantry to follow through.
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Aug 16, 2014 03:24
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And I was just reading that same battle at the time! The last confederacy thread mentioned how miffed people were in Pacific Command thread about firebombings pixelmans, and I actually wanted to read that, but archives... so I ended in MBT, somehow. Man, the Germans... That force on the left side of the map didn't even get to see any action, did they? Also, will there be new threads and new sign ups for the next battle? Don't want to miss my chance to Another thing: can you get trucks for your Pixelgrenadiers (like, that they would start in them). If I had to command infantry, I would want trucks. From my RT experience, infantry gets tired FAST. JcDent fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Aug 16, 2014 |
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Aug 16, 2014 04:08
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I'm heading off to bed, but did a quick view of the German thread. I'm disappointed their initial reactions to the Patriotic Boat  were pretty lukewarm although later reactions to me not getting magically blown up made me smile. But the thing I'm extremely disappointed in is that the guy running the Panther I was dealing with most of the game went AWOL a few turns in.Also, I'm calling dibs on a Russian T-34 next game. Let's see if I can actually move around this time.
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Aug 16, 2014 08:09
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As an observer, my favorite part of either thread is still the slowly dawning realization in the Soviet one that yes, the Germans really had sent half their infantry marching across the bottom of the map towards their spawn.
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Aug 16, 2014 08:15
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As the driver of the mule PzIV that refused to move for two turns, it's pretty goddamn humiliating to realize it's apparently been doing so to prevent getting blown up. Oh well, no one was drafted for being a genius. Into this particualr German army especially, it seems.
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Aug 16, 2014 08:42
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Dark_Swordmaster posted:Also: If you own RT and look at the map, I vote you just look at it and don't actually use units to test things out. I feel that's gamey and takes away from the fun of reacting to plans gone awry. That's just me though. 
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Aug 16, 2014 08:47
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Speaking of gamey, I cant believe the germans targeted the fords with a fire mission right from the get-go. That's so ridiculously unsporting.
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Aug 16, 2014 08:55
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tatankatonk posted:Speaking of gamey, I cant believe the germans targeted the fords with a fire mission right from the get-go. That's so ridiculously unsporting. It would have been a lot more devastating if they'd either a) targeted both fords and hit us south of the river with everything or b) targeted both fords and hit Herp's depleted company north of the river with everything. I'm honestly surprised the artillery didn't turn out to be part of a larger plan to force us into a kill zone.
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Aug 16, 2014 08:58
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As for the next game, is it possible to mod the map? Would be logical to sorta cut of the east side but extend the map way further to the west and south (maybe the north too), get the Russians some foxholes/trenches and the Germans a bunch of extra points (because they would be counter-attacking). Revisiting the exact same map with the Russians in the middle would probably not work out well, due to how small the map is.
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Aug 16, 2014 09:21
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Wow. The Germans really did send a reinforced company south of the river, that did gently caress all. If they'd advanced towards the IS2's they could have forced them out of position, but they never did that either. Glorious Soviet Navy deserves a Hero of the Soviet Union. I never believed till the end that only 1 company was headed towards the objective, I was wrong. Very unsportsmanlike to drop artillery on the Russian crossing, but it worked. Please- no rivers next time. And no heavy tanks for anyone. I would like more zoomed in views of each company per turn. The Germans really should have dropped some artillery on the IS2's as soon as they knew they were there. My thinking for my HMG and ATG was a defensive position, but I know I was too cautious with my HMG at the end. Perhaps the next battle could be an initial German defence, with an counter-attack group to come help? A pure defensive battle dosn't give much to do for the defenders. I request that what ever side Herpicide goes on, I be on the other side. And he should be shot. By both sides. His original idea was to drop artillery to FOOL SPIES when it actually he was going to drop it in a useless place anyway. I am sorry I'm not seeing it land as it would have completed the destruction of the German company, but only though luck.
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Aug 16, 2014 10:06
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Can't you buy TRPs in Red Thunder? Using one or two of those to cover the fords closest to the enemy deployment zone probably would've been pretty nasty.
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Aug 16, 2014 10:36
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