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Burkion posted:How is that the only one you can think of? I mean it's not a bad one I guess, but come one-I mention the Three Doctors by name. Let's not forget the Gods of Fraggle Rock!  But yes, the Pyramids of Mars approach of "stop the villain from getting in the direction of what they want, because once they have it everything is hosed forever" is a good way of keeping the stakes high without making the Doctor omnipotent.
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Sep 3, 2014 02:07
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Man, all those Elder Gods spend an awful lot of time sitting in big chairs, don't they? The White Guardian, the Gods of Ragnarok... it seems to be a theme.
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Sep 3, 2014 02:08
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I would ask anyone uncomfortable with the casting if they were familiar with salvage and scrap metal work actually being a thing. And that while very occasionally being legally questionable, is not generally seen as an immoral or malicious act. The brothers mistook the tardis for an abandoned space pod and didnt take a thing until the doctor said "Ok, you can totally help yourself to the tardis if you help me find my friend". For more insight i suggest the episode "American scrap" on the HBO version of "Vice". This shows pretty much the most shady and illegal version of salvaging (taking copper from long-abandoned buildings someone supposedly still owns), but is a very interesting watch. MattD1zzl3 fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 02:09
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MattD1zzl3 posted:The role of space salvage men was cast with actors of african heritage, and people felt like this meant they were shown sealing the doctors space-stereo or something. There was also something about the brother being converted to a cyborg to save his life being treated badly by his brothers something something slavery. Whoa, MattD1zzl3, of all people, failing to understand the subtlety involved in racism? Really surprised here! What's that question you always quote yourself repeating about this subject, Matt? Remind us.
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Sep 3, 2014 02:11
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Jsor posted:Sure, but when Clara does it she's the specialist most impossible girl ever. She and Rose and Jack Harkness can be special because they're white. The others are black, Japanese, and ... Welsh.
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Sep 3, 2014 02:14
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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DoctorWhat posted:Man, all those Elder Gods spend an awful lot of time sitting in big chairs, don't they? The White Guardian, the Gods of Ragnarok... it seems to be a theme. If I were all-powerful the first thing I'd do is create the most comfortable chair in the universe and never leave it, so fair enough.
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Sep 3, 2014 02:15
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DoctorWhat posted:Man, all those Elder Gods spend an awful lot of time sitting in big chairs, don't they? The White Guardian, the Gods of Ragnarok... it seems to be a theme. 
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Sep 3, 2014 02:18
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Bicyclops posted:I think this is less likely than other people seem to, but I'm going to keep hoping. With a good writer and director, he'd easily be the best they've ever had. With Skyfall they seemed to put their foot down and say that there's only been one James Bond, so as good as Idris Elba would be at being Bond, they've got the perfect excuse to never do that.
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Sep 3, 2014 02:23
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Cleretic posted:With Skyfall they seemed to put their foot down and say that there's only been one James Bond, so as good as Idris Elba would be at being Bond, they've got the perfect excuse to never do that. Hopefully they'll switch it up before Craig grows out of the part. Nobody wants another situation like the end of Roger Moore.
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Sep 3, 2014 02:27
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It's definitely a thing. I like you, Doctor! You're a shallow, precious child — the Revelationist — happy with the sweeping sound of words! But I am the Revelation! The Tiger-Force at the core of all things! When you cry out in your dreams — it is Darkseid that you see!
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Sep 3, 2014 02:29
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Oh gently caress, Jack Kirby writing for the Fourth Doctor would've been so awesome.
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Sep 3, 2014 02:31
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Gaz-L posted:Oh gently caress, Jack Kirby writing for the Fourth Doctor would've been so awesome. It really would've, yeah. 
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Sep 3, 2014 02:34
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MattD1zzl3 posted:I would ask anyone uncomfortable with the casting if they were familiar with salvage and scrap metal work actually being a thing. And that while very occasionally being legally questionable, is not generally seen as an immoral or malicious act. The brothers mistook the tardis for an abandoned space pod and didnt take a thing until the doctor said "Ok, you can totally help yourself to the tardis if you help me find my friend". I don't really care about what you're squawking about right now because in the end it's pointless. Why? Even if you make them white people or brown people or rainbow people or clear people or glass people, and I THINK we've had glass people before, at the end of the day, the characters are all awful horrific people. Ignore the fact that they had illegal tech, that they were going to leave Clara to die, that they were stealing from the TARDIS despite ALL common sense. Ignore all of that. Their brother got horribly injured, so they took advantage of him, convinced him he was a robot and their slave and heaped tons of abuse and insults on him, entirely because they were jealous of him- and at the end of the episode, THIS ISN'T RESOLVED. The fact that they are also black and play to certain thuggish stereotypes only makes things worse.
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Sep 3, 2014 02:34
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Cleretic posted:With Skyfall they seemed to put their foot down and say that there's only been one James Bond, so as good as Idris Elba would be at being Bond, they've got the perfect excuse to never do that. There's always only ever been one James Bord, the only movie to ever suggest otherwise was literally a parody of James Bond movies. So long as he's British (or able to do a reasonable approximation of a British accent!) there is pretty much no reason why any actor couldn't be the latest in the long series of "only ever one James Bond" Elba is tall, handsome, charismatic, looks great in a suit, loves fast cars, and is a pretty drat good actor. He's pretty much perfect for the role so long as he isn't too old when Daniel Craig leaves the role, and it would be really lovely if what stood in the way of his getting the role (provided he actually wanted it, of course!) was his skin color. Gaz-L posted:Oh gently caress, Jack Kirby writing for the Fourth Doctor would've been so awesome. Aww man, why'd you have to make me think of something I can never have 
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Sep 3, 2014 03:40
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I started watching the Leisure Hive tonight. I'm going to try the one episode/day thing, see how that works out (I typically watch at least two parts of a Classic serial per night). So far it seems...interesting. The atmosphere seems very reminiscent of the atmosphere in the h2g2 tv series which happened...probably about the same time. In fact, I think I might have heard the exact same piece of music being played...
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Sep 3, 2014 03:45
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My biggest problem with Idris Elba as the Doctor is that he's far too handsome. I think the Doctor should be, generally speaking, an odd looking person, something Tom Baker and Matt Smith pulled off beautifully.
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Sep 3, 2014 03:47
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Thanks to the peeps who answered my question earlier about giving a brief description of the Doctor(s)' personalities. As a follow up, can you explain if there was a character arc for the various Doctors.
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Sep 3, 2014 03:50
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Burkion posted:Even if you make them white people or brown people or rainbow people or clear people or glass people, and I THINK we've had glass people before, at the end of the day, the characters are all awful horrific people. For me this is the disconnect. Despite them being the antagonists to the doctors motivations in the episode, i dont find them horrific or "Thuggish". Normal humans make arrangements to salvage derelict ships, care little for human life they dont know personally, and treat disabled relatives like poo poo. They recycled metal from derelict spaceships and made a deal with the doctor for the technology from his. Their actions did not constitute an immoral act. This is not to say we should ignore the misuse of minorities in "lower class" or antagonist roles in the media at large, but i think IN THIS CASE, and when it comes to doctor who we can give them the benefit of the doubt as they have shown themselves to be very progressive when it comes to sexuality and race relations. (They are "On notice" when it comes to gender) They were talented actors cast in a well written, believable role and we dont need to pretend racism isnt an issue to think that in the future a black family wont treat a relative badly or do a legally questionable thing. TLDR paragraph? Calling them space thugs who rob the doctor is dumb, and i wont stand for it. MattD1zzl3 fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 04:01
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Spikeguy posted:Thanks to the peeps who answered my question earlier about giving a brief description of the Doctor(s)' personalities. As a follow up, can you explain if there was a character arc for the various Doctors. First Doctor: Grew more human, became fond of the human race, and decided to combat evil where he found it. Second Doctor: Largely remained the same, but ultimately had to come to terms with what he was running away from and confront the Time Lords themselves. Third Doctor: Learned to be less full of himself and abrasive and to hold his ego in check, just a little. Tom Baker: Tom Baker (Learned not to marry Romana) Fifth Doctor: Grew defiant in the face of bloodshed and villainy. Sixth Doctor: Really hates to work out and carrot juice. Seventh Doctor: Went from a bumbling idiot to...the Seventh Doctor. Eighth Doctor: Emotionally torn to pieces, bruised heart. War Doctor: Got Old Ninth Doctor: Got over his PTSD and accepted life-in time to die Tenth Doctor: Really didn't want to go Eleventh Doctor: Got Old
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Sep 3, 2014 04:04
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Crazy Man posted:I started watching the Leisure Hive tonight. I'm going to try the one episode/day thing, see how that works out (I typically watch at least two parts of a Classic serial per night). Leisure Hive is definitely a fun watch. It was JNT's first serial, and he wanted to make a mark, so he brought in a director who cinematographied the poo poo out of everything, throwing shooting way behind the limited schedule they were allowed and getting JNT chewed out in the process. It doesn't look like any other classic Who, and it's a change to see something shot with that kind of complexity. Story-wise, it's a pretty major jump from the silliness of the last televised story (Lord Nimon? Lorrrrd Niiiiiiimooooon?!) and makes an effort to show the individuality of different alien characters. Then you're off to "The Doctor is impersonated by a shape-shifting space cactus", so... enjoy that, too.
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Sep 3, 2014 04:06
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Spikeguy posted:Thanks to the peeps who answered my question earlier about giving a brief description of the Doctor(s)' personalities. As a follow up, can you explain if there was a character arc for the various Doctors. Probably the most intentional was Colin Baker's, which was also interrupted and cut short due to all the behind the scenes shenanigans. He was supposed to be more difficult and frustrating to understand then slowly mellow and develop a deep bond of trust and friendship with Peri, and they kind of skipped that middle part entirely on tv with the hiatus followed by the difficult Trial of a Timelord season-long arc. Others had unintentional character arcs that mostly seem to have come about by accident/the benefit of hindsight. Like Baker, Hartnell was initially grumpy and aloof and somewhat sinister - over time he became friendlier, more mischievous and also proactive as a moral force for "good". Pertwee was sort of a missed opportunity in that he was forced into a situation where he had to rely on the help of people he considered somewhat immoral or primitive, and he himself was suffering from suppressed memories/knowledge that prevented him from working around the forced grounding of his TARDIS. The growth of his friendship and familiarity with the UNIT "family" was nicely handled, but it almost felt more like it was just reflecting the growing bond between the actors since the show was using an extended recurring cast for the first time as opposed to the standard "Doctor and a couple of companions" thing. Similarly, Tom Baker's growing sense of frustration and boredom with the role was reflected in his final season which dealt very strongly with the notion of entropy - everything is slowly falling apart, he's losing everything he knows and there is a deepening sense of despair and the inevitability of death. This gets flipped on its side by "The moment has been prepared for" where the Doctor once again cheats death, and the appearance of the Watcher as a psychic projection of his own future self is actually a pretty wonderful callback to Jon Pertwee's last story, where he meets his old mentor who uses the same trick. McCoy got the whole "the Doctor is planning things far in advance and playing nth-dimensional chess while everybody else plays checkers" thing, but only in the last year or so when the show was so far down the list of things the BBC cared about that the writers and script editor were able to get away from the initial call for McCoy to be a light-hearted clownish buffoon and essentially a ridiculous figure (which is what the BBC probably thought about Doctor Who in general).
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Sep 3, 2014 04:08
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I apologize for interacting with Mattdizzle everyone, it's best just to ignore him.Jerusalem posted:James Bond stuff You're mostly right, except for that terrible Lazenby line where he winks at the camera and says "This never happened to the other fellow!"
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Sep 3, 2014 04:10
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Burkion posted:Eleventh Doctor: Got Old I just want to quote this as a piece of super-clever double meaning.
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Sep 3, 2014 04:17
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Bicyclops posted:I apologize for interacting with Mattdizzle everyone, it's best just to ignore him. I also apologizing and shall commence the ignoring. ikanreed posted:I just want to quote this as a piece of super-clever double meaning. I try. I seldom succeed, but I do try.
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Sep 3, 2014 04:19
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Bicyclops posted:You're mostly right, except for that terrible Lazenby line where he winks at the camera and says "This never happened to the other fellow!" Yeah, that's probably the 2nd worst line in the history of the James Bond franchise. #1 being, of course, Pierce Brosnan saying,"I thought Christmas only came once a year  " 
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Sep 3, 2014 04:19
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Jerusalem posted:
Yeah, that one is probably more embarrassing than the most embarrassing line in Doctor Who, it is actually that bad.
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Sep 3, 2014 04:25
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Spikeguy posted:Thanks to the peeps who answered my question earlier about giving a brief description of the Doctor(s)' personalities. As a follow up, can you explain if there was a character arc for the various Doctors. The first Doctor stared out was a really selfish, misanthropic prick. He slowly opened up. In the broader context of the show, this is him maturing beyond his Time Lord roots. The second Doctor's arc is tragic. He starts out as this clever, proud-of-himself sort of guy. He's the smartest man in the room until he's forced to deal with his equals and is brought low. The third Doctor... I don't know enough about him, actually. It's here where he started to properly love humanity and to grow to be a self-consciously heroic figure. The fourth Doctor was the one to come to terms with, and deal with, both what he meant to humanity and to the Time Lords. The fourth Doctor was the one where we learned about his lovely academic results. He dared, and did, and overcame his humble origins. The fifth Doctor was all about nobility and so on. Not much of an arc there, I think. The sixth was bombastic, sure, but his whole arc was about growing the spine to ultimately reach his own trial, and to condemn the Time Lords. It'd be hubris if it weren't warranted. Seven was a clown who gradually revealed darker depths, that's well documented. Eight is... well, eight. Heroic and noble and complicated and interesting until he couldn't be the doctor anymore. His arc was artificially ended by Night of the Doctor. Nine had to slowly learn to live again after what he thought he'd done. So the smiles are brighter and he kept people away. Ten was a loving sociopath. With nothing to keep him pent in he did monstrous things until the universe came crashing down on them and he died. It's hubris and horror all the way down. Eleven you're probably familiar with.
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Sep 3, 2014 04:32
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TL posted:Found it! Hahahahaahahaha oh man what a dweeb! I have never been more glad to be so wrong. If I bothered with sigs, I would have this a sig to remind myself how wrong I was. Such breathtaking hyperbole!  On other topics discussed these last few pages I'd like to make a couple points. 1) "Ace always had to have sex in every NA novel." Reminder that when I was rereading and reviewing them (something I will one day get back to, honest!) Ace romance plots weren't as bad as all that. It happened a few times, but the most explicit was Jan in the critically/fan acclaimed Love and War, which was seen as a watershed moment for developing her character from the stasis of a dead tv show. Most people who claim otherwise haven't actually read any of the NAs. 2) I swear to Christ that in the past 5 or so pages not one person has managed to spell Eccleston right and it's drivng me up the loving wall! 
Astroman fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 04:37
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MattD1zzl3 posted:For me this is the disconnect. Despite them being the antagonists to the doctors motivations in the episode, i dont find them horrific or "Thuggish". Normal humans make arrangements to salvage derelict ships, care little for human life they dont know personally, and treat disabled relatives like poo poo. They recycled metal from derelict spaceships and made a deal with the doctor for the technology from his. Their actions did not constitute an immoral act. This is not to say we should ignore the misuse of minorities in "lower class" or antagonist roles in the media at large, but i think IN THIS CASE, and when it comes to doctor who we can give them the benefit of the doubt as they have shown themselves to be very progressive when it comes to sexuality and race relations. (They are "On notice" when it comes to gender) They were talented actors cast in a well written, believable role and we dont need to pretend racism isnt an issue to think that in the future a black family wont treat a relative badly or do a legally questionable thing. People have noticed that the number of non-white actors in DW has decreased since Moffat took over. In the Davies era we had Martha and Mickey, off the top of my head, who were significant, sympathetic characters of color. I can't think of any major POC characters in the Moffat era, so the fact that he finally cast three black actors and they were lower class thieves is troubling. In most cases with racism/sexism/other isms, it's not so much the individual act as the pattern.
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Sep 3, 2014 05:30
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Republican Vampire posted:Ten was a loving sociopath. With nothing to keep him pent in he did monstrous things until the universe came crashing down on them and he died. It's hubris and horror all the way down. Wellllllll. There was also the bit about the round things.
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Sep 3, 2014 05:38
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Jurgan posted:People have noticed that the number of non-white actors in DW has decreased since Moffat took over. In the Davies era we had Martha and Mickey, off the top of my head, who were significant, sympathetic characters of color. I can't think of any major POC characters in the Moffat era, so the fact that he finally cast three black actors and they were lower class thieves is troubling. In most cases with racism/sexism/other isms, it's not so much the individual act as the pattern. That's... a good point now that you mention it. I guess we've got Danny Pink now, but that' still not much.
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Sep 3, 2014 05:38
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Crazy Man posted:I started watching the Leisure Hive tonight. I'm going to try the one episode/day thing, see how that works out (I typically watch at least two parts of a Classic serial per night). The music in Season 18 is done by Paddy Kingsland, who also did the music for Hitchhiker's Guide. That's why it sounds so similar.
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Sep 3, 2014 06:27
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Bicyclops posted:Yeah, that one is probably more embarrassing than the most embarrassing line in Doctor Who, it is actually that bad. The worst thing is that they obviously gave the character that name entirely for the sake of that stupid, stupid pun. Astroman posted:1) "Ace always had to have sex in every NA novel." Reminder that when I was rereading and reviewing them (something I will one day get back to, honest!) Ace romance plots weren't as bad as all that. It happened a few times, but the most explicit was Jan in the critically/fan acclaimed Love and War, which was seen as a watershed moment for developing her character from the stasis of a dead tv show. Most people who claim otherwise haven't actually read any of the NAs. I think it's more common in the Past Doctor Adventures line BBC Books published after they recovered the licence. Maybe?
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Sep 3, 2014 09:22
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Some site had done an episode-by-episode breakdown of POC characters per season, but I can't find it now- maybe mentioning it will spark someone else's memory? Iirc, at the time it was a wash (besides the companions, obviously). I'm not sure if that included the last season. Doesn't excuse Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS. Tv is flooded with stereotype characters, no one needs more, it's lazy and lovely to do in a family show with a kid audience. People can stop complaining when it stops happening. Burkion posted:Their brother got horribly injured, so they took advantage of him, convinced him he was a robot and their slave and heaped tons of abuse and insults on him, entirely because they were jealous of him- and at the end of the episode, THIS ISN'T RESOLVED. It was resolved, but poorly. At the beginning of the episode vs. end of episode (bonus, Dad's photoshopped head):   So the brother is being less of an rear end in a top hat for once (it's pointed out that this is an exception), and this time they didn't mess with Tricky's memory. He doesn't seem to be in charge, but that's not terribly unreasonable if he still had the memory loss. Never did explain why the brother's conscience jumped back months (minimum) before the time loop. Also maybe don't resolve your B plot via a photo the audience didn't know they were supposed to memorize.
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Sep 3, 2014 10:07
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Gaz-L posted:Oh gently caress, Jack Kirby writing for the Fourth Doctor would've been so awesome. You can replace the words "Fourth Doctor" with anything else, and that sentence would still be true. Kirby was amazing.  A dude posted:Then you're off to "The Doctor is impersonated by a shape-shifting space cactus", so... enjoy that, too. That episode was kind of limp overall, but Baker did a good job playing a badguy.
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Sep 3, 2014 11:51
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Delivery McGee posted:Pfft, Idris Elba can't play the Doctor. He's a nice bet for the next James Bond! BONG Gynovore posted:There really weren't a lot in the old series. The only one I can think of is the Black Guardian. Disagree. It makes the universe seem larger, and the Doctor actually having to step very lightly is interesting
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Sep 3, 2014 12:14
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Cleretic posted:That's... a good point now that you mention it. I guess we've got Danny Pink now, but that' still not much. He is part of this season's regular cast, so it actually is something. He's like a reverse Mickey (Clara maybe giving up the Doctor for him, rather than vice-versa).
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Sep 3, 2014 12:19
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MrL_JaKiri posted:BONG He said Idris Elba as the Doctor is near! 
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Sep 3, 2014 12:44
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MrL_JaKiri posted:BONG Jerusalem posted:He said Idris Elba as the Doctor is near! http://youtu.be/zySRb5tjEF4
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Sep 3, 2014 13:32
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Goddamn Storm Warning is shite.
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