|
Jerkface posted:With 3 or 4 items his NON skill shot combo does over 1500 magic damage + 8% of your missing health. There are better hyper type champs of course, but Fizz is up there in terms of hyper scaling. If he hits you with his full combo you're very, very dead and the same can't be said for other mages with the same items. A good assassin is a good assassin. Not a hypercarry.
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 19:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 23:55 |
|
|
Corbeau posted:A good assassin is a good assassin. Not a hypercarry. Disagree, assassin champs can hyper carry. Fizz has all the tools to hyper carry a game because he can absolutely 1v5 a teamfight with zhonyas. He has a 1.75 ratio on just his trickster/ult combined and both are AOE, and with LB he does disgusting unavoidable damage on his urchin strike.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 19:55
|
|
|
The distinction matters because you fight an assassin very differently than you fight a carry (since they act very differently because of their different capabilities). Oversimplifiying: you dive a carry, but an assassin dives you. The key difference being which one wins a sustained fight and which one wins a 100-0 burst fight. An assassin also generally has to get in to do their damage (hi Fizz), while a carry can remain much safer. Fizz may scale well as an assassin, but he's not a Kog or Trist. Corbeau fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Sep 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 19:57
|
|
|
Good job fighting without your tristana UOL
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:02
|
|
|
I usually agree with you Pat but I disagree with you on this distinction. A champion that snowballs isn't necessarily a hyper carry. A hyper carry is a 6-item champion that can basically crank an entire team by himself. I'd limit the list to like Vayne, Twitch, Tristana, Jax, and maybe Yasuo. There's probably others I'm forgetting (e: kog).
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:02
|
|
|
Corbeau posted:The distinction matters because you fight an assassin very differently than you fight a carry (since they act very differently because of their different capabilities). Oversimplifiying: you dive a carry, but an assassin dives you. The key difference being which one wins a sustained fight and which one wins a 100-0 burst fight. Or to put it in another way: If you can time out Fizz's Seastone Trident, he loses and he HAS to pull back because his fight is done and can't kill his target fast enough (particularly because everything else is gonna be on cooldown). If you time out Tristana's Rapid Fire, she just kills you anyways.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:02
|
|
|
Admoon posted:Good job fighting without your tristana UOL Yup.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:02
|
|
|
Corbeau posted:The distinction matters because you fight an assassin very differently than you fight a carry (since they act very differently because of their different capabilities). Oversimplifiying: you dive a carry, but an assassin dives you. The key difference being which one wins a sustained fight and which one wins a 100-0 burst fight. Kog or Trist are AD hyper carries yes, but another champion does not need to deal similar sustained DPS as those to also be a hyper carry. There will still be tiers of the hyper carries within that category. Fizz's CDs are pretty short with blue buff and blue pot. Think you're really underestimating how much damage he puts out especially when his Q&W are unavoidable. Libertine posted:I usually agree with you Pat but I disagree with you on this distinction. A champion that snowballs isn't necessarily a hyper carry. A hyper carry is a 6-item champion that can basically crank an entire team by himself. I'd limit the list to like Vayne, Twitch, Tristana, Jax, and maybe Yasuo. There's probably others I'm forgetting (e: kog). I don't see how you or that other guy can list Yasuo as a hyper carry and not include fizz. With 6 items( I calculated on only 4) Fizz does over 2k damage with JUST HIS Q+W combo!?!?!!?!? and its on a less than 5 second cooldown by that point with blue buff+pot. Jax & Yasuo basically do the same thing as Fizz. Vayne, Twitch, Tristana, Kog all do very heady sustained damage and have things which help them decimate any type of champion (like %health damage+grievous wounds) which is also a thing that Fizz has. If you consider Yasuo or Jax a hyper carry you also gotta go with Fizz, I think a distinction for hyper carrying is with 6 items how effective is the champion at killing other champions relative to other 6 item champions and Fizz just does so much damage and is very hard to kill himself. And every hyper carry can snowball off early leads, but look at Bjergsen almost carrying TSM 10k gold down as Fizz vs LMQ for an example of a Fizz not needing to snowball to be massively effective. Jerkface fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Sep 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:04
|
|
|
I really like Jree picking up the captain enchantment here.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:11
|
|
|
If they didn't have the expansion tournament I think this would've been like 3 splits in a row with the same EU LCS teams.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:14
|
|
|
hypercarry is a term of art that is completely subjective in lol because pretty much no champion can 1v5. however if you're listing hypercarries and you don't include Master Yi, you are objectively wrong
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:22
|
|
|
Gotta say, Dash and Zion might be my favorite desk so far. Zion may be a bit long winded but he is so articulate compared to other pros and provides some really nice insight. Dash is also very good at directing discussion. It seems almost like they actually talk about the segment before they do it rather than the Phreak-style "gently caress it lets wing it".
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:24
|
|
|
Every time I see UOL Vardags on screen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH64dlgyydM
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:24
|
|
|
FNC skins!!! http://www.surrenderat20.net/2014/09/911-pbe-update.html#more
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:25
|
|
|
Fizz is a frail melee caster, and often has to balance between sacrificing mobility->damage/damage->mobility, where any hypercarries listed so far don't really have that mechanic. His scaling through items, since he's an ability based/AP champion, is mostly linear whereas a hypercarry scales exponentially. This is why I'd say you're really overestimating his 6 slot vs 6 slot endgame utility. I guess everything you're saying is kind of true, Jerkface, it's just that I really don't agree with what you think hypercarries are, I don't think most would. He can "hypercarry" a won game, but Fizz has a miserable time playing from behind no matter how long the game goes. oh god, poppy top 
Ihki fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Sep 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:27
|
|
|
shushei gragas thank you rito
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:32
|
|
|
holy gently caress
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:32
|
|
|
The poppy oh man
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:32
|
|
|
Exponential sustained damage scaling is pretty much the number one reason why I still think of Yasuo as a hypercarry. That crit passive is obscene, and allows him to do absurd things even if he normally plays a lot like an assassin. And yeah, I consider "carrying" a game is something pretty much any champion or category of champion can do. That's distinct from being a carry. This is a point where MOBA terminology just plain sucks.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:32
|
|
|
Ihki posted:Fizz is a frail melee caster, and often has to balance between sacrificing mobility->damage/damage->mobility, where any hypercarries listed so far don't really have that mechanic. His scaling through items, since he's an ability based/AP champion, is mostly linear whereas a hypercarry scales exponentially. This is why I'd say you're really overestimating his 6 slot vs 6 slot endgame utility. Jax, Trist, & Ryze also have a miserable time playing from behind. There are few champs who were very good at all stages of the game and are also hyper carries. Kog & Twitch were 2 and only Kog really is now because they nerfed a lot of the other ADCs/new supports/new meta makes him a lane bully in a lot of matchups. I just think there are very few champions who can put out 2K magic damage that is unavoidable every 4.5 seconds in the game.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:38
|
|
|
it's happening
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:39
|
|
|
COME ON AND SLAM
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:40
|
|
|
ahaha phreak always fucks around when he is casting with the other dude.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:41
|
|
|
Jerkface posted:I just think there are very few champions who can put out 2K magic damage that is unavoidable every 4.5 seconds in the game. Uh? 2k damage sounds like a lot front-loaded, and it is, but it's not actually that much DPS if we're talking 6-item carry builds. e: Holy poo poo 2-0 Poppy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:41
|
|
|
^That too.Jerkface posted:Jax, Trist, & Ryze also have a miserable time playing from behind. The operative part was "no matter how long the game goes" and Jax, Trist and Ryze will have great potential for loving things up if the game goes late. For Fizz it never turns around like that, was my point, as he doesn't scale in a comparable way. Poppy owns.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:43
|
|
|
I'm surprised that MIL didn't try to force the 2v1 on poppy, and wow the double lift burns out of phreak lol
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:45
|
|
|
LOL oh jesus those doublelift burns
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:45
|
|
|
Poppy is 2/0 and winning on CS, and phreak is burning doublelift hard. Good times.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:45
|
|
|
Morello posted:Well, there are two choices; I'm OK with both to some extent; rip poppy
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:46
|
|
|
Phreak laying down some  .
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:46
|
|
|
UOL looking like an entirely new team.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:48
|
|
|
I wish the competitive streams had the option to mute one of the two casters.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:49
|
|
|
Vizicsacsi goes from feeding on the best meta top laner to dominating on loving poppy of all things.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:49
|
|
|
I... I need to watch this from the beginning. He....picked Poppy. How could I miss the first 15 minutes....
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:50
|
|
|
Swiggity swooty, thresh is coming.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:51
|
|
|
4/0/1 poppy this is the best.  Will this trigger the poppy rework?!
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:51
|
|
|
I just tuned in and apparently there's a 4-0-2 Poppy. What the gently caress
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:53
|
|
|
Libertine posted:I usually agree with you Pat but I disagree with you on this distinction. A champion that snowballs isn't necessarily a hyper carry. A hyper carry is a 6-item champion that can basically crank an entire team by himself. I'd limit the list to like Vayne, Twitch, Tristana, Jax, and maybe Yasuo. There's probably others I'm forgetting (e: kog). I think I figured out which hyper carry you forgot here Libertine.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:53
|
|
|
The Mash posted:I just tuned in and apparently there's a 4-0-2 Poppy. What the gently caress This is literally the best pro game I have ever watched.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 23:55 |
|
|
The Poppinator is here 
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2014 20:54
|
|
