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Bicyclops posted:Stretch goals: will hold Moffat's hand over a lighter until he records a personal apology for every use of the word "Yowza!" in Doctor Who. Stretch goal: cram the collected Moffat DVDs up his arse
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Sep 14, 2014 23:18
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While this conversation was going on, I got to the end of Other Lives and the Doctor told Charlie she'd put on a bit of weight since he'd last seen her. 
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Sep 14, 2014 23:21
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Davros1 posted:Big Finish brought it back and their first series was amazing. So just leave it to Big Finish. Just put in more slammin' music as befits a gang of piratical nonconformists.
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Sep 14, 2014 23:23
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2house2fly posted:I sort of get a trading-faux-barbs kind of affectionate vibe from the constant put-downs, or that that's what they're trying to convey anyway. Clara seems to get annoyed by them but it's not wearing down her self-esteem and she insults him as well, though I don't remember any about his looks. I imagine they'll taper off as he regains his heroism and all that throughout the series. Can but hope, as I'm also not a fan of them. With many writers you could debate whether there's misogynistic feelings behind jokes like that, but when you're talking about a guy who's already demonstrated misogyny in his writing a bunch of times it's pretty hard to avoid being biased. At the same time, in the last four episodes Clara is consistently the most agency-full companion the series has ever had. If we get a female Doctor, she'll act like Clara in this episode.
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Sep 14, 2014 23:42
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Well that episode went bad fast.
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Sep 14, 2014 23:42
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Khanstant posted:Why would the Doctor pick out some arbitrary "normal" person as a companion? I mean, I'd be interested in seeing what some overweight, balding, office drone with no sense of humour or adventure would do as a companion, but it's fairly obvious why they always have someone exceptional be a character instead of the opposite. They made one episode like this and it turned out so well that they actually brought the character back for another one-off appearance. Just because someone isn't "the impossible girl" who meets and inspires kid-doctor doesn't mean that they are a balding over-weight slob. The Doctor didn't pick many of his classic companions anyway. Ian, Barbara, Vicki, Steven, Dodo, Ben, Polly, Jamie and Victoria were all basically foisted upon him. The only ones that were "chosen" by the first two Doctors were Susan and Zoe. Same with most of the UNIT people, the only one he had any veto over was Jo and he didn't have the heart to fire her. The fact that the newer companions don't always work, as Clara apparently didn't last season, makes it hard to sit through when the show pumps them up as being super important either to the Doctor's backstory or to the universe as a whole.
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Sep 14, 2014 23:43
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There were a lot of good bits in the episode. I like Danny Pink, I liked the scene with Young Danny Pink, I like Capaldi's performance. I didn't much care for most of what Capaldi was saying for the early parts of the episode - either it was directly offensive (his negging of Clara) or it was just plain stupid ("What if something evolved... to hide??"). There was no real flow to the episode, it was difficult to get a grip of what was happening. Still though, 6/10. Until the stuff in the Doctor's childhood where it's revealed that Clara is basically so amazing she gives him his whole personality. loving dreadful. -10/10. DoctorWhat posted:We were all young, once. There was an episode that was made worse by something, let's include it again
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Sep 14, 2014 23:44
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MrL_JaKiri posted:There was an episode that was made worse by something, let's include it again If liking silly hats is wrong, I don't want to be right.
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Sep 14, 2014 23:49
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pgroce posted:No, the misogyny's there. This isn't the Doctor not knowing what's attractive, it's the Doctor regularly asserting that he does know what's attractive, and Clara isn't. The jokes are put-downs, and I find them irritating and unnecessary, too. If they were "I'm sure she's quite attractive, I wouldn't know," they wouldn't bother me. That's your opinion. It's not objective. I'm just now seeing it. I guess this means you can call me a misogynist now, if it makes you feel better, and add me to the pantheon of Objectively Wrong Doctor Who People, like Stephen Moffat and Rhyno. In my opinion, Capaldi is playing it as "I'm an alien and I don't see Clara is attractive when she really is and that's the joke."
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Sep 14, 2014 23:50
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Chokes McGee posted:If liking silly hats is wrong, I don't want to be right. I love the Time Lord hats, and was very pleased they returned in the new series.
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Sep 14, 2014 23:51
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Chokes McGee posted:If liking silly hats is wrong, I don't want to be right. Everyone, stop what you're doing right now and go watch The Robots of Death again. (Please do not throw hands at me.)
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Sep 14, 2014 23:53
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Astroman posted:That's your opinion. It's not objective. I'm just now seeing it. I guess this means you can call me a misogynist now, if it makes you feel better, and add me to the pantheon of Objectively Wrong Doctor Who People, like Stephen Moffat and Rhyno. C'mon, mate, you're getting kind of weirdly offended and defensive about this. For what it's worth, you seem to have the wrong end of the stick. It's not that the Doctor 'is an alien and doesn't see Clara as attractive when she really is', it's 'the Doctor clearly understands what is or isn't considered attractive, and yet consistently decides to attack Clara on her appearance'. It's not helpless naiveity, it's very directed and weirdly spiteful. It's not 'are you pretty? I dunno', it's 'you're loving ugly'. It's really unpleasant. I mean, yes, we all have opinions etc etc, but it's pretty nakedly there in the scripting. EDIT - I just realised the quote you quoted said exactly what I just said, so I guess I'm not adding much to the conversation. But still, there's no need to freak out, dude. Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 23:56
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I don't like seeing the regular aspects of Time Lord society on screen. It's like watching the Doctor on the toilet.
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Sep 14, 2014 23:59
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Astroman posted:That's your opinion. It's not objective. I'm just now seeing it. I guess this means you can call me a misogynist now, if it makes you feel better, and add me to the pantheon of Objectively Wrong Doctor Who People, like Stephen Moffat and Rhyno. Capaldi can play it how he wants but someone wrote it and it's really pretty mean.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:01
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MrL_JaKiri posted:I don't like seeing the regular aspects of Time Lord society on screen. It's like watching the Doctor on the toilet. Ah, but you see, according to the Virgin New Adventures, Time Lords evolved past the need to use the toilet. Since they are such a sterile and staid society, they instead bleuggfhghg
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Sep 15, 2014 00:02
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MattD1zzl3 posted:I am personally hand waving this away as the imagination of the three of them assuming it's a monster. None of them looked, so how would we (the audience) know what it looked like? Didn't 12 mention looking at the reflection in the window? Anyways, something totally different, but still on-topic for this episode: I heard (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Moffat swore up and down that the 50th special would be the last episode in a long, long time with multiple Doctors in it, because that episode had cameos from every Doctor plus The Eyes of the next? So what's happened in this season so far? Cameos from previous Doctors in half the episodes this season so far. I also remember a tweet of Eight standing in the current console room, arms spread wide. Increased chance of an Eight+Twelve appearance this (or next?) season?
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Sep 15, 2014 00:03
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MrL_JaKiri posted:I don't like seeing the regular aspects of Time Lord society on screen. It's like watching the Doctor on the toilet. 
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Sep 15, 2014 00:05
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Astroman posted:In my opinion, Capaldi is playing it as "I'm an alien and I don't see Clara is attractive when she really is and that's the joke." If that were the case then the ways that the Doctor said Clara is unattractive wouldn't be regular human ways of calling people unattractive. If you want to make a joke about how the Doctor has different standards of beauty then do it in the Adams way from City of Death ("You're a beautiful woman, probably") or the way he's written for Strax. Don't do it in the (appropriately enough, as Snakes N Cakes has recently posted) Dragon Age 2 way:  Where every "different" standard of beauty is slim with big tits (and invisible high heels for two of em). The things the Doctor is saying suggests that he understands things like what make up is for and how it is used, he just doesn't think Clara measures up to those very human standards.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:12
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Just to head this off, yes, that graphic is 100% serious and not taking the piss. It's straight out of Bioware's hype machine for DA2.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:18
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MrL_JaKiri posted:
Obviously guys, i dont think its an overarching rule in doctor who that the audience only knows what the cast can see, but considering the episode is about fear of the unknown, and the doctor who made a big deal out of turning away from the creature, showing on camera what "we" cannot see as monstrous and grotesque fits with the theme of the episode really well, even if we accept that the monster never existed. I choose to think the monster depicted in child pinks bedroom was the fear and imagination of the cast made real. I admitted from the start that i made this up wholecloth, but for me it is the most satisfying answer. This need not establish a precedent that nothing the cast does not see is not known by us. MrL_JaKiri posted:(and invisible high heels for two of em) Hah, once you posted this i looked back at the image and at least 1 of the men, and maybe one more are also depicted with invisible heels. The human male is the most obvious MattD1zzl3 fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 00:19
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They could very easily have not shown us anything at all if that was their intent
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Sep 15, 2014 00:24
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Hah, once you posted this i looked back at the image and at least 1 of the men, and maybe one more are also depicted with invisible high heels. The human male is the most obvious His foot is flat, that's just perspective. The human and elf women have their toes bent up.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:27
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MrL_JaKiri posted:His foot is flat, that's just perspective. The human and elf women have their toes bent up. Maybe there's a fence just out of our field of view and they're just trying to get a look over it (at an actual good sequel to Dragon Age: Origins on the other side )
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Sep 15, 2014 00:33
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So to ween us off this stupid talk about Claras self esteem, The Doctors misogynists insults and how you personally deal with it....does this Clara understand that her timeline and The Doctors are intertwined? If so then why was she so put off with 12's change of appearance in Deep Breath? Didn't she already understand the concept of regeneration and how it changes how he looks due to the fact that she's traveled across all thirteen of his lives?
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Sep 15, 2014 00:41
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AndyElusive posted:So to ween us off this stupid talk about Claras self esteem, The Doctors misogynists insults and how you personally deal with it....does this Clara understand that her timeline and The Doctors are intertwined? If so then why was she so put off with 12's change of appearance in Deep Breath? Didn't she already understand the concept of regeneration and how it changes how he looks due to the fact that she's traveled across all thirteen of his lives? Timey wimey shitey writey.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:43
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I think that was them using Clara as an audience surrogate even when it did not make sense in the context of her so-called character up to that point?
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Sep 15, 2014 00:44
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I am legitimately confused at this episode. Clara was the one under everyone's beds after all?
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Sep 15, 2014 00:44
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I was putting stuff under my bed earlier, I can confirm that Jenna Coleman was not there.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:48
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Well duh. When you looked, she sat on top of the bed instead.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:50
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Clara doesn't have a clear memory of all her alternate lives which lead up to saving the Doctor from the Great Intelligence - she mentions it in one of the episodes around that time.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:50
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Dabir posted:Well duh. When you looked, she sat on top of the bed instead. Very sneaky, these Colemans.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:51
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twistedmentat posted:I am legitimately confused at this episode. Clara was the one originally under the young Doctor's (unless it was someone else) bed who set this whole chain of thinking into motion. There may or may not have been a monster. Also, I think it's safe to say that Clara knows about regeneration, however clearly she remembers the Jump Into The Doctor's Timeline incident. But one of the things she knew is that post-regeneration, the Doctor tends to become, and certainly thinks of himself as, a different person, and she didn't want to lose her friend even if he was going to be replaced by someone else with the same name and broadly the same values. That's what made Twelve's reference to Eleven's phone call at the end of Deep Breath as something he did so significant. docbeard fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 00:51
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So the whole thing about everyone throughout all time having the same dream at one point in their lives, was that a lie or was the Doctor mistaken? Because if it's true, it's another notch in there being something out there column.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:52
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AndyElusive posted:So to ween us off this stupid talk about Claras self esteem, The Doctors misogynists insults and how you personally deal with it....does this Clara understand that her timeline and The Doctors are intertwined? If so then why was she so put off with 12's change of appearance in Deep Breath? Didn't she already understand the concept of regeneration and how it changes how he looks due to the fact that she's traveled across all thirteen of his lives? The 11th Doctor was meant to die at Trenzalore. The "scar" she jumped into was that of a Doctor who died for good at Trenzalore defending it from the assembled races terrified of the signal coming from the crack in time. He never regenerated (because his regeneration cycle had run out) so there was no look into his future, because he didn't have one. Thanks to Clara's plea to the Time Lords in The Time of the Doctor, the Time Lords decided to gift him a new set of regenerations and he started all over again with a new set of lives, changing his own future (and technically past, since he visited his own grave in The Name of the Doctor) so that Clara had no idea what was coming. Couple that with her own admission that her memory of what she saw inside that "scar" is fuzzy at best, and the fact that her prior experience with regenerations were prior to him becoming "her" Doctor - in other words, they were all on their way to becoming the man she knew - and it is no wonder that she reacts so strongly to this regeneration. "Her" Doctor has become a stranger, he's no longer building up to becoming the man she recognized as the Doctor, he's something more than that now, somebody who has moved on past that particular incarnation. Basically, everything is new uncharted territory for her at the moment, and to her credit (and the writers) she's reacted pretty admirably in that she now actually appears to have a strong character as opposed to just relying on the crutch of the undefined mystery of being "the impossible girl".
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Sep 15, 2014 00:53
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Are you asking if it's true in real life? Because no it's not. If you're asking about the show you have as much idea as everyone else.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:53
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Spikeguy posted:So the whole thing about everyone throughout all time having the same dream at one point in their lives, was that a lie or was the Doctor mistaken? Because if it's true, it's another notch in there being something out there column. It's a common (but not universal) fear - the monster under the bed. A hell of a lot of people have had it in their childhoods, and the Doctor didn't set that in motion by having a Jenna Coleman under his bed one night. He was just one of billions of children across the universe who have been scared of the dark and the unknown one night. Only, because of who he, one day as an adult he got it into his head that maybe there WAS something to it and set about trying to prove that, when in the end all it turned out to be was that - like so many others - he was a scared child one night in his past, as "human" as anybody else.
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Sep 15, 2014 00:56
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Great episode. It didn't feel needlessly cluttered like many other Moffat episodes.
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Sep 15, 2014 01:00
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Are you asking if it's true in real life? Why would I ask if that's true in real life? Content: I'm really digging this series so far, it hasn't had any episode I didn't outright enjoy like some of the past ones. But that could be the benefit of watching them live with friends this time.
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Sep 15, 2014 01:01
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Ah! Thank you guys for the...Clarafication.  Wait, she remembers War Doctor though?
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Sep 15, 2014 01:07
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This incarnation of Clara actually met the War Doctor.
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Sep 15, 2014 01:12
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