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Stop. loving stop. There's very little as tedious and unsuccessful as discussions on whether things are (x)ist against minorities between straight white men. Like, if you're a woman and you can relate with the dialogue for better or worse, by all means share your perspective. But the majority arguing with each other over what various minorities see or don't see in this episode, completely without knowledge and fully inexperienced, is the most tiring thing. That goes for both "sides." Just stop it. This is like the Internet version of the US Congress having hours of debate between men on women's reproductive rights. It's nice that you care, but you really have nothing to contribute.
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Sep 16, 2014 00:43
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DoctorWhat posted:It's another example of Sandifer giving in to his teleological predispositions and primal need to defend Moffat at all costs, and talking over actual women (and other minority perspectives) in the process.. Oh yeah, I think I saw some of the last thing on Tumblr and it was pretty weird. I've enjoyed bits and pieces of his blog I've stumbled across, though. I agree with some of his points. Mainly that I think Moffat does have the capacity and desire to want to improve, and I don't think "savage" critiques that don't actually explain themselves helps. I identify with his position partly too, as I was recently surprised to find my mother is a big fan of River Song, and realised I was stupid for disliking her character without considering what her character could mean to other people. But it is a bit overly defensive. However, I might still "un-wishlist" TARDIS Erudotirium. I've been enjoying About Time Vol. 7 so far, so I guess I'll just stick with that series for Doctor Who critique and trivia. e: Moffat discussion spin-off thread
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Sep 16, 2014 00:45
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Craptacular! posted:There's very little as tedious and unsuccessful as discussions on whether things are (x)ist against minorities between straight white men. I'm confused here. Or maybe I'm not, but it sounds like you believe that only straight white men are posting in this thread?
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Sep 16, 2014 00:50
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surc posted:Is there still a general doctor who and/or classic doctor who thread? I am about to take the plunge and go full chronological through classic who and would like to have a place to talk about it. This thread is the place to discuss the classic series, the mods won't allow a separate classic Who thread, or a separate Big Finish thread (though I guess that would go in the radio/podcast forum rather than TVIV).
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Sep 16, 2014 00:51
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Craptacular! posted:Like, if you're a woman and you can relate with the dialogue for better or worse, by all means share your perspective. But the majority arguing with each other over what various minorities see or don't see in this episode, completely without knowledge and fully inexperienced, is the most tiring thing. 12 Years a Slave Review by Psybro, white middle class male There was a film, it had issues about slavery in it. It was a nice film. ****1/2 For on-topic content: This is a thread about a programme which asks us to put ourselves in the shoes of a hundreds-year-old time traveller who can change his entire appearance. In the past it has invited us to put ourselves in the shoes of mutant survivors of nuclear war, fish people in the far future and androids. I am not troubled by the idea that this thread will have people questioning their own attitudes and that of the society in which they live. Psybro fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 00:51
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I like River a lot until the later episodes where she goes from being a dynamic, interesting figure, the Doctor's equal who has her own cool space adventures and can match him wit for wit, to a tragic, weepy figure who is totally obsessed with the Doctor and tolerated by him on the basis that he pities her. Like, in Name of the Doctor, he straight up just sends her away like "it's time to go now River", as if he's her dad sending her to bed. I think there are two camps, roughly speaking, of people who dislike River Song. There are people who dislike her on the basis that she's kind of larger than life and action-y and flirts with the Doctor a lot, and there are people who dislike her on the basis that she becomes, increasingly, a sad, uncomfortable figure who feels distinctly subordinate to the Doctor. Obviously enough, I fall into the latter camp - I think the feminist aspects of River's character early on, to wit that she can match the Doctor in the field of adventure and sometimes outdo him, much outweigh the slightly pander-y parts of her. The part of her I think is un-feminist is that dynamic characterisation being undermined until she's just a lonely Doctor groupie desperate for his attention.
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Sep 16, 2014 01:00
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LividLiquid posted:That's the thing, though. The damage something does is not connected to the intentions it had. And what damage would you say his words cause to Clara?
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Sep 16, 2014 01:01
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Hey, I'm all caught up again. I still hate this show but I also love it? Listen has got to be the most Moffat episode of all time. It has a horror element meant to have a lasting impact on children (all those bumps in the night are as scary as you think) and it has a mild case of Moffat's favored time wizardry. Also it was loving dull and pointless. First up: we've had two episodes with Pink so far and in both cases I'm forced to wonder why Clara and Dan are trying so drat hard. In his first appearance, I had to sort of marvel at the sheer fantasy of Clara coming back to insist on having a date with Dan, presumably because she's just so understanding and caring that when Dan slams his foot down into the furthest reaches of his throat, she's there to save the man from his own boorish incompetence. Well, as far as Doctor Who goes, I guess it's not that outlandish. But then we move on to this episode, in which two separate points in the same date, these acquaintances successfully dig deep into each other's feelings to the point of shutdown. And in the end they still strive to make it happen. Like, poo poo, when Amy and Rory were fighting it made sense. They're married and have been in a relationship for years. But Clara can't even call Pink by the right name, and for some reason has this weird obsession with reminding him that as a soldier he probably killed someone? Maybe it's just not meant to be. Well, I guess it is if all the hinting from the Future portion of this episode is any indication. There's still room for this one to be saved. On its own, I don't get it, but I guess I wouldn't be shocked if Moffatt made this romance a little more fateful than it initially appears at first. Besides that, I just didn't "get" whatever I was supposed to get out of the ambiguity of the antagonist (if there was one). The idea of a monster that exists perfectly out of sight is fun and pure Who. But in the end, going "well I guess it wasn't a monster after all, The Doctor is just daft" was too much of a reversal for me. It's good to play with the formula, but a whole episode that ends with "the Doctor was zooming in and out of time being crabby and intrusive because he cried a lot as a kid" just doesn't really do anything for me.
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Sep 16, 2014 01:05
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PoshAlligator posted:I don't disagree with you there, it is nice to get the sense of a good Doctor in a bad situation, but the way the War Doctor is talked about in the show made it seem as if there was more than just the Moment to be ashamed of. Things like still refusing to outfit the TARDIS with weaponry despite being in a massive war are a little too on the noise Doctor-y. It's not that I don't like that, but it seems a bit safe. Well like I said, it worked for me, but of course different people might want to see something different from the War Doctor. Though we could also see some harder edged moments from him in future stories. This may just have been a "good day" for him. The blooming is straight out of one of the early NA novels, where the TARDIS turns inside out and becomes a city. One of my favorites, personally. Another favorite nugget of mine from Engines of War was ("oh no not the)Mind Probe.(") DoctorWhat posted:According to Zagreus and The Next Life, Rassilon was a big, frothing racist who tampered with genetic histories across time and space in order to enforce a hominid hegemony. It was also in the novels that he basically took a more fantastical, almost magical early universe and made it more logical and technological. His war with the Vampires was one of those things. LividLiquid posted:That isn't what I did. At all. I pointed out that people kept raging on the topic being broached, and that the conversation would be long over if people could just let "that was a bit sexist" lie there instead of arguing about it, then blaming the people they're arguing with for starting the argument that they, themselves, started. My original point was "well I just don't see it, sorry." What you're saying here (bolded) is "this argument would be over a lot earlier if people would just agree that I am objectively right."
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Sep 16, 2014 01:08
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I'm catching up right now. Blink and miss Patrick Troughton cameo in Robot of Sherwood! 
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Sep 16, 2014 01:13
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Pizdec posted:The Ninth called Rose an ape, and Eleventh called Amy "huge" when she was pregnant. Neither of these are really misogynistic and the first one isn't even about appearance in context, but if you can raise a shitstorm about this episode than you certainly can about those ones. The Doctor just makes jabs at people all the time and some of those jabs will be about appearance. Hell, watching the three Doctors quibble about each other's clothes was one of the most fun parts of Day of the Doctor. The Twelfth just comes off as more agressive in his demeanor which I guess throws people off when he talks to women that way... which is kinda sexist in itself, suggests women are weak and fragile creatures that we have to protect from mean ol' Capaldi. Yeah, but it's not really the fact that he makes jabs at her appearance. It was even legitimately funny a couple of times. It's just a bit <insert preferred word here on the spectrum of misogynistic to slightly obnoxious> that he keeps doing it every episode. I mean, I'll be totally honest. I laughed at the whole "she needs three mirrors!" thing. But it would be better if it only happened occasionally. E: I really have no feministy objections to River. I didn't really like her much and found her sort of obnoxious, but I really think that trying to get something anti-feminist or misogynistic or problematic™ out of it is reaching. Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 01:15
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Android Blues posted:The part of her I think is un-feminist is that dynamic characterisation being undermined until she's just a lonely Doctor groupie desperate for his attention. The Wedding of River Song is all about River not wanting to murder the Doctor, and being forced to deal with the guilt and feelings of powerlessness she had in that situation. Post-Wedding, she's sad because she knows that the Doctor is going through a period of extreme loneliness and isolation, and there's nothing she can do to help him through it. At what point is she a groupie?
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Sep 16, 2014 01:17
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Astroman posted:It was also in the novels that he basically took a more fantastical, almost magical early universe and made it more logical and technological. His war with the Vampires was one of those things. One of the factors in the Gallifreyan/Time Lord question is the Rassilon Imprimatur, a change that he applied to Gallifreyan genetics to allow them to survive time travel and link with a Tardis, which (according to one of the wikis) is briefly discussed in The Two Doctors. So presumably the Gallifreyan-->Time Lord relationship is something to do with the application of the Imprimatur, which in turn is probably related to graduating from the Academy. There's also the fabled Trouser Press of Rassilon, that's canon too 
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Sep 16, 2014 01:19
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Evil Sagan posted:Besides that, I just didn't "get" whatever I was supposed to get out of the ambiguity of the antagonist (if there was one). The idea of a monster that exists perfectly out of sight is fun and pure Who. But in the end, going "well I guess it wasn't a monster after all, The Doctor is just daft" was too much of a reversal for me. It's good to play with the formula, but a whole episode that ends with "the Doctor was zooming in and out of time being crabby and intrusive because he cried a lot as a kid" just doesn't really do anything for me. Additionally, Moffat loves line-of-sight related monsters, Angels only hurt you if you look away, the Vashta Nerada inhabit shadows where you can't see them, the Silents make you forget them when you're not looking etc. It makes effective horror, but it's getting really loving tiresome and I was groaning at the same old "corner of your eye" shtick in the trailer. But then A TWIST!!! - you can't see the monster because it doesn't exist. Made for a nice subversion and surprised me when the least I expected was surprise, so good job Moffat, guess you haven't spent all your ideas after all. (I probably jinxed it and a River-equivalent that the Doctor flirts with appears in the next Moffat episode, sorry if that happens, it's on me.) Detective No. 27 posted:I'm catching up right now. Blink and miss Patrick Troughton cameo in Robot of Sherwood! Jsor posted:Yeah, but it's not really the fact that he makes jabs at her appearance. It was even legitimately funny a couple of times. It's just a bit <insert preferred word here on the spectrum of misogynistic to slightly obnoxious> that he keeps doing it every episode. Pizdec fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 01:23
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The Doctor's treatment of Clara has made me feel uncomfortable. It's not about social justice, but it struck me as hurtful towards Clara in a way I don't think the Doctor should be acting. If you don't feel that way, it's fine, but I hope at least you can understand why I might feel that way. And if you can't, instead of telling me why I shouldn't feel that way, perhaps it would be best to either not respond or to talk about one of the other varied topics I would be happy to discuss about Doctor Who in general or the recent episodes themselves.
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Sep 16, 2014 01:24
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Pizdec posted:Huh? When The Doctor is looking at all the different renditions of Robin Hood, one is a photograph of Patrick Troughton as Robin Hood.
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Sep 16, 2014 01:29
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Potsticker posted:The Doctor's treatment of Clara has made me feel uncomfortable. It's not about social justice, but it struck me as hurtful towards Clara in a way I don't think the Doctor should be acting. If you don't feel that way, it's fine, but I hope at least you can understand why I might feel that way. It could mirror 11th's evolving treatment of Rory. You even have the constant appearance jabs ("the Nose"). edit - And don't get me started on "Mickey the Idiot". Not appearance-based, but mean-spirited as gently caress. And that Doctor didn't even have the chance to lay off a bit until after his regeneration. When you think about it the Doctor is a "good but not nice" person in general. I suppose 10th was the most mellow, but even he berated poor Wilfred hard in his "I don't want to go" tantrum. edit2 - Detective No. 27 posted:When The Doctor is looking at all the different renditions of Robin Hood, one is a photograph of Patrick Troughton as Robin Hood.  That's awesome, thanks!
Pizdec fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 01:35
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One Swell Foop posted:One of the factors in the Gallifreyan/Time Lord question is the Rassilon Imprimatur, a change that he applied to Gallifreyan genetics to allow them to survive time travel and link with a Tardis, which (according to one of the wikis) is briefly discussed in The Two Doctors. So presumably the Gallifreyan-->Time Lord relationship is something to do with the application of the Imprimatur, which in turn is probably related to graduating from the Academy. Yeah, the idea that there are ordinary Gallifreyans, some of whom are educated to become Time Lords, has been toyed with over the years and everything we've seen in the past few years on the show (things like the Master and Doctor's youth, and the Gallifreyan civilians on the run from the Daleks) has only enforced that. It was largely limited to the novels and audios but it's pretty explicit on screen now.
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Sep 16, 2014 01:36
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Pizdec posted:Hell, maybe that's the point. This Doctor is honestly kind of an rear end in a top hat in general and maybe the character arc this season will be about him re-learning in his new body/mind that your companion is also a trusted comrade and a friend and maybe you should treat them a bit different than a (supposedly) robot Robin Hood. See, I feel like Deep Breath showed a good bit of the Doctor and Clara trusting each other with the robot deception sequence, and that Into the Dalek showed that the Doctor trusted her judgement in regards to the lesson learned and trusted her to come up with the solution in the memory tubes alone. Robot of Sherwood was a step away from that in that the Doctor was basically a petulant 10 year old the entire time while Clara managed to solve everything. And then finally in Listen he's dragging her away from things she wants to do, insulting her and completely focused on His theory based on His childhood fears. Actually, typing all that out, maybe Capaldi's Doctor is a petulant 10 years old space boy who has trouble relating to others, including his nanny who accompanies him on his space adventures. And because she's enjoying herself in things that don't involve him he gets cranky.
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Sep 16, 2014 01:45
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Boogaleeboo posted:And what damage would you say his words cause to Clara?
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Sep 16, 2014 01:51
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Potsticker posted:See, I feel like Deep Breath showed a good bit of the Doctor and Clara trusting each other with the robot deception sequence, and that Into the Dalek showed that the Doctor trusted her judgement in regards to the lesson learned and trusted her to come up with the solution in the memory tubes alone. Robot of Sherwood was a step away from that in that the Doctor was basically a petulant 10 year old the entire time while Clara managed to solve everything. And then finally in Listen he's dragging her away from things she wants to do, insulting her and completely focused on His theory based on His childhood fears. Pizdec fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 01:51
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Pizdec posted:What WERE those jabs, incidentally? Is there a list somewhere, I honestly can't remember them. E1: quote:Wrong? What's gone wrong? I remember you! You're Handles! You used to be a little, a little robot head, and now.... He keeps confusing her and Strax too. E2: quote:THE DOCTOR E3: I'll come clean, I didn't look very long, but I couldn't easily find one here. E4: The makeup thing and the three mirrors thing. All of them are honestly pretty drat funny on their own (and to be fair, in the first one the Doctor was regeneration-confused as gently caress), but as a pattern it makes me kind of uncomfortable, even independent of any possible feminist issues. (Edit: And yes, I had similar issues with the running jokes with Mickey and Rory. I thought all of them were funny, but became obnoxious and sometimes uncomfortable after they were repeated ad infinitum) Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 01:53
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Astroman posted:Well like I said, it worked for me, but of course different people might want to see something different from the War Doctor. Though we could also see some harder edged moments from him in future stories. This may just have been a "good day" for him. Yes, maybe. On one hand it would be good to have more War Doctor, but on the other I fear it's quite limited and difficult. Unless high ups at the BBC (like Moffat) are willing to help elaborate on his presumed adventures I worry they'd stagnate and just be Engines over and over, a good novel, but the only novel it feels like it could have ever been. Where can you go with something like that without someone making big decisions? I'd love to somehow hear some Big Finish, but John Hurt is probably too high profile. It feels like the first scene of the War Doctor in Day could immediately follow the last scene in Engines. I'm being too negative. I'd love to see a resurgence of Past Doctor Adventures or whatever the ones that ran along the EDAs were called. I wonder how Doctor Who books are doing financially at the moment, and how the past Doctor ones compare to the NSAs. I still haven't read any NAs, though I now have a stack of a handful I picked up on the cheap and I'd like to try them out. Do you know the name of the blooming one? Though I'll probably dip into one of the just released 12th NSAs first. Books are rad. I have a bunch of digital Doctor Who comic books from Humble Bundle and Comixology sales I've not read. Which are the best volumes to start with? I think these are only 10 & 11 stuff. PoshAlligator fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 01:54
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One Swell Foop posted:There's also the fabled Trouser Press of Rassilon, that's canon too These creases last forever!
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Sep 16, 2014 01:57
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One Swell Foop posted:One of the factors in the Gallifreyan/Time Lord question is the Rassilon Imprimatur, a change that he applied to Gallifreyan genetics to allow them to survive time travel and link with a Tardis, which (according to one of the wikis) is briefly discussed in The Two Doctors. So presumably the Gallifreyan-->Time Lord relationship is something to do with the application of the Imprimatur, which in turn is probably related to graduating from the Academy. Rassilon had a signature line of luxury men's accessories. Didn't you know that?
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Sep 16, 2014 01:58
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Jsor posted:All of them are honestly pretty drat funny on their own (and to be fair, in the first one the Doctor was regeneration-confused as gently caress), but as a pattern it makes me kind of uncomfortable, even independent of any possible feminist issues. Yeah, but Clara gives back just as good as she takes. To me, it's nothing more than two really good friends who needle one another and one of them is more socially inept than the other.
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Sep 16, 2014 01:59
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CobiWann posted:Yeah, but Clara gives back just as good as she takes. I maintain that my uncomfortableness is due to the lack of variety. The Doctor never really insults her in a way other than her appearance. It's a bit one-trick-pony. Clara insults a bunch of the Doctor's personality traits. I'd really just prefer a bit more variety in their bickering.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:01
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CobiWann posted:Yeah, but Clara gives back just as good as she takes.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:05
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Irish Joe posted:If people could be reasonable and make statements like "I don't think the Doctor's comments are coming off the way Moffat intended them. They feel really mean-spirited" instead of "MISOGNY! MISOGYNY! DERP DERP DERP!" you wouldn't have this kind of push-back. So, I'll admit, I don't pay enough attention to user names, so I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt. I was going to say, "You're slightly misremembering things, I basically did say, 'I don't think the Doctor's comments are coming off the way Moffat intended them. They feel really mean-spirited,' almost word for word." And then I was going to quote my first post that started all this as proof: Eiba posted:So... is there anyone else who loves Capaldi in general, but is really tired of his constant putdowns of Clara? I was going to point out that even this innocent post immediately caused sarcastic and dickish push-back of exactly the type you're saying wouldn't happen without "MISOGYNY DERP" (which I hope we can all agree, my post was not). I distinctly remembered that there was push-back, no matter how mildly the criticism was phrased, and that this conversation is indeed pretty blatantly the fault of jerks who get insecure at the merest hint of "social justice". When I went to quote that post... it turns out... you loving made it. Irish Joe posted:I am routinely triggered by Doctor Who. I mean, obviously you'll never listen to folks concerned about social issues, but you have to admit, regardless of the validity of social issues, you're blatantly wrong about the things that actually happened in this thread. It was literally you who fired the first shot. You personally made this a 5 page argument... not alone, as it turns out, but you would have done it by yourself. So... thanks for making everyone else who blames "SJW's" for this conversation look like even bigger whiny idiots and hypocrites than they are, I guess? God drat, I had no idea how toxic this subject would end up being. I'm not sorry for my opinions or even the way I expressed them, but I'm still sincerely sorry for how the conversation ended up making GBS threads up the thread.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:11
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Irish Joe's whole MO is just to post contrary opinions in various TVIV threads in hopes of riling someone up. I'd take him with a grain of salt.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:15
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This is literally the worst thread on SA. I will not back that up with any evidence, nor will I explain my opinion or how I arrived at it. It just is, ugh.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:20
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Huh, it seems people really are reading those comments on the part of the Doctor as malice. I rechecked the latest episode and even the makeup thing seems to me like nothing more than the Doctor being a retard on human issues. I guess this is why people have such different reactions to the issue. I'm wondering if his almost Strax-like obliviousness to standards of human beauty is a device to make him more asexual (like they tried with 11th at first) instead of flirty all the time (like 11th ended up becoming) and people are misreading it as malice and misogyny.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:20
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Pizdec posted:Hell, maybe that's the point. This Doctor is honestly kind of an rear end in a top hat in general and maybe the character arc this season will be about him re-learning in his new body/mind that your companion is also a trusted comrade and a friend and maybe you should treat them a bit different than a (supposedly) robot Robin Hood.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:35
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Pizdec posted:Huh, it seems people really are reading those comments on the part of the Doctor as malice. I rechecked the latest episode and even the makeup thing seems to me like nothing more than the Doctor being a retard on human issues. I guess this is why people have such different reactions to the issue. I agree that what you're saying is the intention, but the problem isn't an in-universe "The Doctor is too mean" problem, it's a real world "including dialogue about the main female character's appearance every episode" problem. I'm not worried about how The Doctor's insults are making Clara feel. We can disagree about whether or not this is a problem, as long as we both understand what we're disagreeing about.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:35
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Eiba posted:
It's not your fault. Irish Joe is either an insufferable prick or doing a very good imitation of one and if you ignore the poo poo-and-run tumblr jokes, the discussion was fine. You'll notice a pattern in the people who come in and say "This thread is terrible now, because of the topic that was raised:" they're the people who actively made the thread terrible, because they cannot stand that anyone can discuss these topics in literally any contest.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:40
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surc posted:Is there still a general doctor who and/or classic doctor who thread? I am about to take the plunge and go full chronological through classic who and would like to have a place to talk about it. As someone in the middle of this, I have one piece of advice: that one hundred tacos for one hundred dollars deal will not provide enough sustenance for your Doctor Who marathon.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:44
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I've asked before, but am I seriously alone in noticing that he's meaner when he's jealous? When it's just him and Clara he's friendly enough. Then when her date goes poorly he tells her she's ugly, when Pink calls he intercepts the call ('whimsically' discarding the phone) and at every opportunity he acts like the jilted ex never-boyfriend* who's mad as gently caress that he's not #1 but no wait come back I neeed you for ... something spurious that I paced my apartment thinking up. It was weird that she hid her connection with Pink's timeline, until it seemed familiarly like concealing your new interest from your morbidly dependent ex. He's doing a masterful job of portraying ugh... that guy, it's complicated but what's uncomfortable it is that a) Dr Who isn't a show about that guy and b) Moffat probably is is IRL. And we're being subjected to a very sympathetic portrait of an unsympathetic person. His manipulative, toxic behavior is shown in a context engineered to make us feel that this is an OK healthy relationship. Posters are venomously arguing that it is. (*That's not your fault, Clara. Ie: You would have been mine if only I'd willed it.)
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Sep 16, 2014 02:48
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surc posted:Is there still a general doctor who and/or classic doctor who thread? I am about to take the plunge and go full chronological through classic who and would like to have a place to talk about it. This is the general thread these days, so feel free to talk about it here! Things won't be completely spoiler free but if you note you're in the middle of a serial or something, people are pretty good about tagging stuff. Are you watching the reproductions for the missing episodes too?
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Sep 16, 2014 02:50
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moths posted:I've asked before, but am I seriously alone in noticing that he's meaner when he's jealous? When it's just him and Clara he's friendly enough. Then when her date goes poorly he tells her she's ugly, when Pink calls he intercepts the call ('whimsically' discarding the phone) and at every opportunity he acts like the jilted ex never-boyfriend* who's mad as gently caress that he's not #1 but no wait come back I neeed you for ... something spurious that I paced my apartment thinking up. Oh my god. The Doctor is just bustin' clara's balls, like all friends do with each other. Oh my god.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:53
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I liked Listen a lot, it might be my favorite one so far this season. But there's something I can't put a finger on that it's missing that would flip it from good to phenomenal, though. (Maybe it's a bit of writing THAT HAS EVOLVED PERFECT HIDING DUN DUN DUN.....OF DEATH). Still, I liked it a lot. I love character studies best, I thought the ambiguity was used well (and ambiguity of this sort is really easy to gently caress up), and I was even fine with the cursory look to the Doctor's past. I think that's the sort of thing that should be done sparingly, but given that this is only the second time the revival (and, indeed, the series as a whole) has gone to that well, I think that fits any reasonable definition of "sparingly". I think that scene would have been a little stronger had it just been left at Clara grabbing his foot from under the bed and telling him it was all a dream, but I think it's truer to her character to not have her walk away from a sobbing child, so fair enough. It's the kind of episode that makes me wish that Moffat was no longer the showrunner. Because (as I think even he has observed) he basically never gets to write things that aren't part of some big clunky metaplot any more, and the strongest writing he's done has always been stuff that was comparatively free of those outside ties, Day Of The Doctor being the only notable exception I can think of. Maybe The Beast Below. I think Listen doesn't quite rise to the level of Girl In The Fireplace or Silence In The Library or The Empty Child or even that episode of the Twilight Zone he wrote called Blink, but it's head and shoulders above most of his work since taking over as showrunner. A fun game: Watch the Doctor's face at all times. Watch his reactions to things. I started on rewatching the last fifteen minutes of Robin Hood Vs The Daleks (the script for which even now Mark Gatiss is scribbling furiously onto every available surface) and it's quite an education. Watch him when the Sheriff falls to his robo-death in the pit of molten gold. It's a triumphant moment for everyone else and he is loving horrified. He's also none too pleased when the robots' ship blows up in orbit, even though it's the outcome he was (sort of) trying to bring about. Oh, and whatever else you can say about the Doctor's little insults, I don't think they're very good writing, they're not especially funny, and they're demonstrably not communicating whatever point they're meant to about his character since I've read about fifty different theories over the last three hundred pages as to what that point is meant to be. I'm not going to quit watching over them, I'm not even going to complain that loudly (though I can see why others might) but I sure wouldn't miss them if they disappeared in the next episode. Though I assume Clara isn't going to put up with that forever, and maybe we're in for a satisfying payoff. docbeard fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 02:53
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