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Twerk from Home posted:I don't think it's this, I think that it's that the replacement youth are broke as hell. This is honestly the main thing. Back when I first joined here, and before I got disillusioned/informed on the reality of what the job market's gonna be in my lifetime, I really thought I would be able to afford an FR-S/BR-Z "in just a couple years", while they were still being sold new. I was right in the middle of what ought to have been the car's target market if people my age (mid 20s) had the same relative purchasing power they did in my parents' generation. The jobs, and the good jobs that let you afford a nice car fresh out of college, just aren't there. In 1969 you could get a fastback Mustang with a V8 for ~$2800; a kid working minimum wage full-time, living at home, could save up that much in under a year. The same minimum-wage job with no bills today gets you... what, a base Fiesta? A Versa? E: Also they are totally gonna make another MS3, are you serious? It's been, like, the benchmark hot hatch in the US since it came out.
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Sep 17, 2014 09:07
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The Mustang would have been 100% of minimum wage at 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year. The same thing today would be $15,500 and would just barely get you a focus. In Australia the same would be $33k and would but you a Falcon sedan or ute, but they'll still bitch because it won't buy a BMW. The American dream still exists, but only in Australia.
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Sep 17, 2014 09:43
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Here that'd buy you... half of an Citigo/UP! 
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Sep 17, 2014 10:47
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Interesting how everyone uses the SRT-4 as the example for fast FWD cars post Type-R in the US instead of the Cobalt SS turbo, which is .8 seconds slower than an e46 M3 around the Nurburgring and cost nearly one third new. And is FWD, and is based on a Cobalt of all things. And at 8:22.8 it held the record for fastest FWD production car on the ring until Renault made the R26.R specifically to take the title and still only beat the $22k Cobalt by 5 seconds. Seriously. How did GM make such an incredibly performing car for a brief two years and then cancel it? Look what Renault had to do to get the limited edition R26.R to be FIVE seconds faster than a stock Cobalt SS. quote:To improve the power to weight ratio, the Mégane R26.R has been on a strict diet, losing 123kg compared to the standard R26. This has been achieved by the removal of: It's a shame the economy exploded and all the fun projects were cancelled at GM. Imagine if they kept developing that platform instead of the boring poo poo they have now. The highest horsepower engine you can get in any of Chevy's FWD lineup is a turbo 1.4L making a whopping 138hp. I think the Cobalt would make a better comparison to the Focus ST than the SRT-4. BoostCreep fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 10:53
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The Cobalt SS was just a zippy Cobalt, whereas the SRT-4 was Jekyll and Hyde in car form. Neither car was refined, both were shitboxes, but the SRT-4 had presence. Hence a decade later and the SRT-4 is a benchmark.
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Sep 17, 2014 11:49
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Fucknag posted:This is honestly the main thing. Back when I first joined here, and before I got disillusioned/informed on the reality of what the job market's gonna be in my lifetime, I really thought I would be able to afford an FR-S/BR-Z "in just a couple years", while they were still being sold new. I was right in the middle of what ought to have been the car's target market if people my age (mid 20s) had the same relative purchasing power they did in my parents' generation. The jobs, and the good jobs that let you afford a nice car fresh out of college, just aren't there. Welcome to the erosion of purchasing power over the years! What's this? You're not happy that you get to live the American Dream? Well, gently caress you, got mine. Signed, Glorious """"Job Creators"""" But no really, eat the rich.
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Sep 17, 2014 13:38
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Fucknag posted:This is honestly the main thing. Back when I first joined here, and before I got disillusioned/informed on the reality of what the job market's gonna be in my lifetime, I really thought I would be able to afford an FR-S/BR-Z "in just a couple years", while they were still being sold new. I was right in the middle of what ought to have been the car's target market if people my age (mid 20s) had the same relative purchasing power they did in my parents' generation. The jobs, and the good jobs that let you afford a nice car fresh out of college, just aren't there. Anyone who was out of high school in '69 and could work full time was almost assuredly not a 'kid' by contemporary standards and would've put that money towards moving out of their parents' house and starting a family instead of living single with Mumsy and Pop-pops till their 30s like a weirdo. Maybe a weirdo with a nice car. Those 'good jobs that let you afford a nice car fresh out of college' are absolutely still there and in much greater quantity, except the percentage of the work force with a degree (in whatever) has grown even faster; the percentage of the workforce that was fresh college grads getting that big paying first job in '69 was considerably smaller. I agree that there's been social changes that have greatly affected young adult buying power (in no small part related to adulthood seemingly getting pushed back ten years) but you don't need to overly rosify your view of the past to recognize it. Also it's been hashed over a billion times but you're really underestimating how much car even a modern 'stripper' like a base Fiesta is, compared to a '60s Mustang - in terms of reliability, longetivity, economy / emissions control and safety. Those may not be the features you're prioritizing but they need to be paid for all the same.
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Sep 17, 2014 13:53
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Seriously. My GIRLFRIEND'S base model fiat 500 has so much more content than my first car, a brand new 1994 Honda civic lx (mid range) that its not even funny, and the civic cost more in 1994 not even accounting for inflation.
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Sep 17, 2014 15:19
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Snowdens Secret posted:Those 'good jobs that let you afford a nice car fresh out of college' are absolutely still there and in much greater quantity, except the percentage of the work force with a degree (in whatever) has grown even faster; the percentage of the workforce that was fresh college grads getting that big paying first job in '69 was considerably smaller. I think the "good jobs" being there depends on you being in an industry that's currently booming like crazy, like software or oil. If you're not working in one of those boom industries, things are pretty bad even if you have a college degree. There's a reason why the media is saying "millennials hate buying cars and houses", and a big part of it is they can't afford to.
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Sep 17, 2014 15:27
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Twerk from Home posted:There's a reason why the media is saying "millennials hate buying cars and houses", and a big part of it is they can't afford to. It's because Boomers want to be validated at every single moment of their life and want to be able to dismiss "those lazy millennials" as lazy because even the news said it! Seriously, go look up the decline of purchasing power of the middle class since WW2. The median income in the US hasn't changed since the 1980s, it's been flat lined at $60kish for the past 30 years. Go look up compensation rates of top level executives over the past decade and internalize that a $2 increase in a decade for minimum wage doesn't compare to the 20000% increase in compensation for glorious job creators. Funny enough, minimum wage in the 60s is effectively $3/hr more than the current $7.25/hr in 2014 dollars.
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Sep 17, 2014 16:10
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It's pretty sad. I make nearly as much in graduate school as a friend did working in industry with his BS. Even after 10 years with a BS he'd be struggling to make what a first year PhD graduate will. Everyone has college degrees now (and the crippling debt that comes with most of them) and no one wants to pay them anything.
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Sep 17, 2014 16:52
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Stealth Like posted:It's pretty sad. I make nearly as much in graduate school as a friend did working in industry with his BS. Even after 10 years with a BS he'd be struggling to make what a first year PhD graduate will. Everyone has college degrees now (and the crippling debt that comes with most of them) and no one wants to pay them anything. Also, Mustang embargo just expired. http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php/2015-mustang-reviews-3578.html
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Sep 17, 2014 17:54
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Get an engineering degree instead of a liberal arts degree and you'll realize that there's plenty of work out there if you choose to go into a profession that, you know, has jobs. I hire civil and mechanical engineers fresh out of their undergrad for $65k/yr all the time. We actively look for people as do all of our competitors. Kids are in college right now getting degrees that aren't worth a drat when they could switch majors and find work without much effort. I'm not sorry to say that it's their own fault much of the time. My girlfriend is an attorney, and I'm keenly aware of how bad the market is for fresh attorneys unless they are coming out of an absolutely top school. She's doing well, but people that are jumping into law school without even doing the most basic amount of research on the job market have nobody to blame but themselves.
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Sep 17, 2014 18:01
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ilkhan posted:Degrees cease to be a differential when they are handed out like candy and everyone has one. Why does everyone have degrees? Was there some sort of narrative high school students were sold? What about HR departments that will automatically bin your resume if you don't have a 4 year? Oh wait, nevermind. They're just lazy idiots for getting a 4 year degree on their own volition. Yeah, that's it.
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Sep 17, 2014 18:02
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eyebeem posted:Get an engineering degree instead of a liberal arts degree and you'll realize that there's plenty of work out there if you choose to go into a profession that, you know, has jobs. I'll cut this one short: it's irresponsible to put this at the feet of everyone who isn't a genius STEM major. Are you going to be as critical of your girlfriend when she doesn't use her law degree as you are towards those with liberal arts degrees?
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Sep 17, 2014 18:06
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eyebeem posted:Get an engineering degree instead of a liberal arts degree and you'll realize that there's plenty of work out there if you choose to go into a profession that, you know, has jobs. Long story short: Kids, don't follow your dreams. Check the job market's supply and demand before you start school-shopping when you're 17, and hope it's the same in five or six years. Don't pick something you'll enjoy, instead pick something in demand that you'll hate. You'll be living the American Dream (tm) then! Disclaimer: I have an engineering degree and I regularly design things 45 feet long, with ten cylinders and all-aluminum bodywork, and enjoy it. 
CornHolio fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 18:11
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CornHolio posted:Long story short: Kids, don't follow your dreams. Check the job market's supply and demand before you start school-shopping when you're 17, and hope it's the same in five or six years. Don't pick something you'll enjoy, instead pick something in demand that you'll hate. You'll be living the American Dream (tm) then! http://www.theonion.com/articles/find-the-thing-youre-most-passionate-about-then-do,31742/
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Sep 17, 2014 18:12
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Meh. Robots will take over engineering jobs soon enough too. we're automating everyone out of jobs. start buying robots because soon robot owners will be the only people who will make any money
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Sep 17, 2014 18:21
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If you see robots taking over your field, get a job fixing the robots. That's what I did.
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Sep 17, 2014 18:58
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The_Raven posted:If you see robots taking over your field, get a job fixing the robots. That's what I did. The toothpaste business is rough
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Sep 17, 2014 19:03
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The robots felt bad about the 500L.   
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Sep 17, 2014 19:09
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Apparently the 2015 Mustang owns all sorts of bones.
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Sep 17, 2014 19:18
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eyebeem posted:Get an engineering degree instead of a liberal arts degree and you'll realize that there's plenty of work out there if you choose to go into a profession that, you know, has jobs. This is in chemistry/biochemistry. Firmly in the STEM category. The problem in this field anyway is the corporate culture. It's essentially one of 'if you don't have a PhD you are a dumb idiot baby that can literally do nothing.' As the number of PhDs awarded to engineers increase and they enter the corporate world this same sort of thing will likely occur there too, but it's still a long long way off.
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Sep 17, 2014 19:20
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The number of PhD holders I come across who are batshit crazy makes that scenario terrifying.
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Sep 17, 2014 19:27
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Doesn't matter, engineering work will be farmed out to India and China soon to save costs anyway. The robots will be taking the jobs of the Chinese and Indians, not yours.
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Sep 17, 2014 19:30
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Wheeee posted:Doesn't matter, engineering work will be farmed out to India and China soon to save costs anyway. Soon? It's happening already. The previous engineering job I had farmed out a lot of work to a company in India before completely shutting the facility down and moving it to Mexico. The engineering job I have right now also farmed out a lot of work to a different company in India, which didn't go very well thankfully (we spent far more hours fixing their mistakes than it would have originally taken). But the fact that two separate companies consulted two separate firms to outsource engineering work doesn't bode well for future engineers in general.
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Sep 17, 2014 19:34
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eyebeem posted:Get an engineering degree instead of a liberal arts degree and you'll realize that there's plenty of work out there if you choose to go into a profession that, you know, has jobs. I have a STEM degree and I'm moving to Taiwan to teach English because I can't get a decent job here. Job market sucks all around unless you're doing IT or are willing to put up with being a worm for two years. (or are a trucker who can haul liquids and Hazmat willing to drive to middle-of-nowhereistan, NoDak.) CornHolio posted:Long story short: Kids, don't follow your dreams. Check the job market's supply and demand before you start school-shopping when you're 17, and hope it's the same in five or six years. Don't pick something you'll enjoy, instead pick something in demand that you'll hate. You'll be living the American Dream (tm) then! Ha, this is what killed my chances. Everything was peachy-keen, until my field got hit hard by the "great recession" literally the last semester I was in college, and certain sectors of the field are still either dead, defunct, or probably won't be back for another 20 years. Of course, there was a lot of grandstanding by politicians about how people were evil for buying what I was wanting to build because "evil rich people shouldn't be able to buy things." Cue about two years of nobody hiring, followed by senior people getting cut without retirement willing to be rehired for entry-level pay, and my degree growing "stale" because I'm no longer a "fresh" graduate and I have no experience, so nobody in my field wants to hire me, and nobody outside my field wants to hire me because I'm "overqualified." Heck, cross shopping engineering positions has been a fool's errand for me as HR has gotten stupid with "we want 'x' engineer and while you are similar enough to 'x' to perform the job competently, we're not going to hire you because your degree doesn't have 'x' engineer on it."
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Sep 17, 2014 19:42
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Phone posted:Apparently the 2015 Mustang owns all sorts of bones.  The Mustang thread hasnt even been bumped this morning. 'Think I'll go fix that.
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Sep 17, 2014 19:51
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I just fiddled around with the Ford configurator and the Ecoboost car comes with an "Ecoboost performance pack" which adds a bigger rad, swaybars, suspension, gauges, wheels... and revises the programming for ABS/ESC/TCS. That's pretty cool, though I'm guessing you could flash that onto the secretary-spec V6 within a few months.
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Sep 17, 2014 20:15
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What's the general consensus on the latest Focus vs Mazda3 for the lower-trim, manual transmission models?
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Sep 17, 2014 20:17
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CornHolio posted:What's the general consensus on the latest Focus vs Mazda3 for the lower-trim, manual transmission models? Mazda 3 is a better car, Focus is comically cheap. If you can find a lower trim manual one you can get a 2014 Focus Hatchback off a lot around me for $14k, tax included.
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Sep 17, 2014 20:20
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Seat Safety Switch posted:I just fiddled around with the Ford configurator and the Ecoboost car comes with an "Ecoboost performance pack" which adds a bigger rad, swaybars, suspension, gauges, wheels... and revises the programming for ABS/ESC/TCS. That's pretty cool, though I'm guessing you could flash that onto the secretary-spec V6 within a few months. There's no point in buying the V6 anymore; it has almost no options available and only comes as a stripper model. It's purely a fleet/rental vehicle at this point. They're not even bothering to sell the V6 outside of NA, as they want everyone to steer towards the EB instead, since it gets better economy. CornHolio posted:What's the general consensus on the latest Focus vs Mazda3 for the lower-trim, manual transmission models? The general consensus is the Maz has a fantastically better interior, but other than that, they're both good solid cars. Most people think the 3 is more fun to drive too.
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Sep 17, 2014 20:20
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Phone posted:Apparently the 2015 Mustang owns all sorts of bones. All I'm taking away from it is there are people who think that the ecoboost is going to "blow away" the GT with just a couple of minor mods... I think a tune and exhaust will get it in the neighborhood of the GT, but after that you'll probably have to start throwing a lot of money at it for more power. It's not any faster than a V6 Accord right out of the box, it's gonna take some work.
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Sep 17, 2014 20:23
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fknlo posted:It's not any faster than a V6 Accord right out of the box, it's gonna take some work. Try doing this in an Accord, jerk t  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcKQeItWpxc&t=12s I agree, 'beating the GT' isn't going to be so simple, but for the money, the EB is far and away the best performance car you can get now. Nothing else is even close to it at $25k.
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Sep 17, 2014 20:28
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HotCanadianChick posted:
My wife has a manual '13 Fiesta right now, loaded to the gills with options. It's a lease and we're turning it in next summer, and those are the two we're looking at. We've been pretty happy with the Fiesta for what it is (though holy poo poo it's slow with the A/C on) and the Focus would be a natural place to go to. My brother has a loaded '14 Mazda6 and holy poo poo it's a nice car. Much more than I'd like to spend, though. Is the 3 similar to a smaller 6 or are they completely different?
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Sep 17, 2014 20:32
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fknlo posted:All I'm taking away from it is there are people who think that the ecoboost is going to "blow away" the GT with just a couple of minor mods...  Looks like the turbo is running out of steam at 5k as is. Tune and exhaust will help, but getting to GT power levels is going to require a replacement turbo. Its undersized (and twin-scroll) to help with turbo lag. ilkhan fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 20:32
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Phone posted:I'll cut this one short: it's irresponsible to put this at the feet of everyone who isn't a genius STEM major. Are you going to be as critical of your girlfriend when she doesn't use her law degree as you are towards those with liberal arts degrees? She's a practicing attorney.
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Sep 17, 2014 20:33
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CornHolio posted:My wife has a manual '13 Fiesta right now, loaded to the gills with options. It's a lease and we're turning it in next summer, and those are the two we're looking at. We've been pretty happy with the Fiesta for what it is (though holy poo poo it's slow with the A/C on) and the Focus would be a natural place to go to. IIRC the 6 was the last car they updated before their new interior design language premiered on the new Mazda3 (and Mazda2), so it's design is slightly behind the current 3. they're both nice, but the 3 has a newer interior design that's cleaner and more modern.
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Sep 17, 2014 20:44
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The 6 is different for the navigation versions anyway as it as the old system which is much much worse than the one in the 3. They are very similar in other regards. The ford will be cheaper but doesn't drive as well or look as good I think. Just go test drive both of them and see how you like them. They're both still fantastic cars but I went with the Mazda because it has options that aren't available on the focus and I like the way the interior feels by a mile.
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Sep 17, 2014 21:28
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HotCanadianChick posted:Try doing this in an Accord, jerk t what was this over produced horseshit with terrible cgi thrown in?
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