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I have no idea how people could hate on C9's surgical stomp of Alliance. Sure, there wasn't a lot of kills because Alliance pulled a Curse and hid in their base, but C9 played the perfect loving game. They shouldn't be able to pull that off against a World's team. What's even odder is all the casters bringing up how dominant the EU teams have been in scrims. Also the way they completely dismissed the C9 game as meaningless. Meteos and his team played one of the best looking games of their careers and the first thing Sjokz says to him is "hmm what a worthless game." Really? Seems like the EU teams didn't do their homework and were taken by surprise by the pace C9 and LMQ pushed. It brings to mind how people said LMQ was dominating NA early but teams got used to their playstyle. These teams haven't gotten used to it yet, but they might. It's not like they didn't make huge mistakes and have poor vision. They were just so god drat relentless their opponents couldn't figure out a way to counter with their slow poke comps. I think we could easily see Alliance change their strategy to a split pushing assassin comp and regain their momentum. Fnatic seems far less capable of changing. Fnatic may be in for a very rough night
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Sep 26, 2014 02:52
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Jonny Angel posted:In general I think your pick ban analysis is much more interesting than your game recap. I definitely agree with this. Maybe it's because we already get a lot of analysis of the actual games and stuff already, I don't know, but the stuff on pick and ban and people actually explaining in depth the strategy that goes with that is significantly more interesting. I think the blog is very good though, Wrath. 
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Sep 26, 2014 02:53
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Jayisspecial posted:What's even odder is all the casters bringing up how dominant the EU teams have been in scrims. Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't the narrative going into the NA playoffs that C9 looked weak in scrims?
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Sep 26, 2014 02:56
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Crazy Larry posted:Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't the narrative going into the NA playoffs that C9 looked weak in scrims? I don't know if that was the case in general, but I remember Meteos and Hai both saying that if they were going by scrim results alone, TSM was going to destroy them in the finals
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Sep 26, 2014 03:14
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Jayisspecial posted:I have no idea how people could hate on C9's surgical stomp of Alliance. Sure, there wasn't a lot of kills because Alliance pulled a Curse and hid in their base, but C9 played the perfect loving game. They shouldn't be able to pull that off against a World's team. What's even odder is all the casters bringing up how dominant the EU teams have been in scrims. Also the way they completely dismissed the C9 game as meaningless. Meteos and his team played one of the best looking games of their careers and the first thing Sjokz says to him is "hmm what a worthless game." Really? Fnatic has a wider champion pool and just played the pick/ban somewhat suboptimally vs LMQ. Peke choked a little while Rekkles was MILES ahead in CS despite his team giving up map presence. If Fnatic gets rid of LMQ's aggressive champs, I feel like they'll outplay LMQ in the long game.
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Sep 26, 2014 03:16
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They loving harp on scrims all the time when they mean absolutely nothing. It's just bad reality tv to build up drama that isn't there.
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Sep 26, 2014 03:25
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What I wonder is how any LCS casters would have any insight into scrims at all. Aren't they held in complete privacy? Nothing said about them is verifiable. Someone could be like "Yeah Team Kabum wrecked us in scrims they are monstrous watch the gently caress out" and what would you do with that information? I guess it just fills air.
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Sep 26, 2014 03:33
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Libertine posted:What I wonder is how any LCS casters would have any insight into scrims at all. Aren't they held in complete privacy? Nothing said about them is verifiable. Someone could be like "Yeah Team Kabum wrecked us in scrims they are monstrous watch the gently caress out" and what would you do with that information? I guess it just fills air. Monte is present for some of the scrims, scrim information is divulged at times by teams. You'll find that the Korean teams are SUPER strict about this kind of stuff though and very rarely find out their scrim results or strategies. This is part of why they have sister teams, trust worthy team you can scrim with and not worry about information leaks.
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Sep 26, 2014 04:07
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Yeah, I think when they were in Korea most (all?) of the western teams were living at hotels and playing at the Korean Riot offices, and Montecristo said he was able to watch some of the scrims there. I assume the other casters were able to also but idk.
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Sep 26, 2014 04:16
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I found it funny how people were shittalking Blue's early game when by 30 mins they were up 10k+. Think they're just a team that plays passive till they reach their item thresholds. Don't think there was another match today that ended so one sidedly. I would actually put them over White to win the whole thing.
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Sep 26, 2014 04:34
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IBentMyWookie posted:I found it funny how people were shittalking Blue's early game when by 30 mins they were up 10k+. Think they're just a team that plays passive till they reach their item thresholds. Don't think there was another match today that ended so one sidedly. I would actually put them over White to win the whole thing. If its a Blue vs White finals, it could be likely. Theres a weird triangle of T1K, SSW and SSB where T1K actually takes games off of SSB but gets demolished by SSW and SSB beats out SSW.
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Sep 26, 2014 04:45
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Jayisspecial posted:I have no idea how people could hate on C9's surgical stomp of Alliance. Yep, I loved it. It was a great game. IBentMyWookie posted:I found it funny how people were shittalking Blue's early game when by 30 mins they were up 10k+. Think they're just a team that plays passive till they reach their item thresholds. Don't think there was another match today that ended so one sidedly. I would actually put them over White to win the whole thing. I agree with you, I still think Blue is the best team in the world.
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Sep 26, 2014 04:48
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i dont think EU is used to the "rip someone apart off one mistake" playstyle which is what c9 and lmq tend to excel at in NA as well this is how korea plays as well, so i dont have high hopes for eu at this point.
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Sep 26, 2014 04:51
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LOU BEGAS MUSTACHE posted:i dont think EU is used to the "rip someone apart off one mistake" playstyle which is what c9 and lmq tend to excel at in NA as well Wasn't that sort of what M5 did? "Give them a finger and they'll take your whole arm" and all that. Perhaps not as cleanly and masterfully as korean teams/C9 though.
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Sep 26, 2014 05:36
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Jayisspecial posted:I have no idea how people could hate on C9's surgical stomp of Alliance. Sure, there wasn't a lot of kills because Alliance pulled a Curse and hid in their base, but C9 played the perfect loving game. They shouldn't be able to pull that off against a World's team. What's even odder is all the casters bringing up how dominant the EU teams have been in scrims. Also the way they completely dismissed the C9 game as meaningless. Meteos and his team played one of the best looking games of their careers and the first thing Sjokz says to him is "hmm what a worthless game." Really? The reason is that C9 was not at all surgical, just slow. That, and Balls severely underwhelmed on Rumble compared to Ackerman and Dyrus, who went on absolutely berserk tears with him. But the main point is C9's indecisiveness. Compare the Samsung White vs DP game with C9 vs Alliance. Notice the difference? White gets no kills for a billion years, but even then they create a gigantic snowball and 100% win the game, as fast as they possibly can. C9 has several spots of hesitance and doesn't force their advantages like they should (the instant they got that kill on Shook, they should've forced multiple objectives). Their game was fearful, lacking in decisionmaking, and generally just ponderous. It worries me because it means a fast team will blow them the hell up with a blindside. I'm not looking forward to C9's other matches, tbh. They'll have to show up big time to convince me they aren't just frauds waiting to be exposed once they're out of the softy group they got.
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Sep 26, 2014 05:48
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Previous Jesus posted:Yeah, I think when they were in Korea most (all?) of the western teams were living at hotels and playing at the Korean Riot offices, and Montecristo said he was able to watch some of the scrims there. I assume the other casters were able to also but idk. C9 and TSM both did walkthroughs of their team apartments while in Korea. Pretty sure any scrim info is just through the grapevine.
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Sep 26, 2014 06:13
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Transient People posted:That, and Balls severely underwhelmed on Rumble compared to Ackerman and Dyrus, who went on absolutely berserk tears with him. But the main point is C9's indecisiveness. Compare the Samsung White vs DP game with C9 vs Alliance. Notice the difference? Yes: One is a game between a solid choice for the #1 seed and a solid choice for the #16 seed, and one is a game between two closely-matched teams that was expected to be close. Niton fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 06:16
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Daemonlasher posted:Monte is present for some of the scrims, scrim information is divulged at times by teams. You'll find that the Korean teams are SUPER strict about this kind of stuff though and very rarely find out their scrim results or strategies. This is part of why they have sister teams, trust worthy team you can scrim with and not worry about information leaks. I just find that all to be not worthy of analysis because if I was a team I would just constantly release misinformation about my scrims. No one can verify what's happening so it's just all hearsay.
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Sep 26, 2014 06:23
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Niton posted:Yes: One is a game between a solid choice for the #1 seed and a solid choice for the #16 seed, and one is a game between two closely-matched teams that was expected to be close. Yeah, White vs. DP is a really lovely comparison. Not that I think C9 was playing to White's level in their game against Alliance, but expecting them to dish out the same kind of surgical decimation that DP received is ludicrous considering the relative talent involved.
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Sep 26, 2014 06:25
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Skippy McPants posted:Yeah, White vs DP is a really lovely comparison. Not that I think C9 was playing to White's level in their game against Alliance, but expecting them to dish out the same kind of surgical decimation that DP received is ludicrous considering the relative talent involved. Then it's a good idea to not talk about a 'surgical stomp', because it wasn't. 'Shook was a moron who built no MR, Wickd sucks' is a much better match analysis and more honest to what really happened. C9 applied a stranglehold, but it wasn't WELL applied. It could've been easily broken by a better team.
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Sep 26, 2014 06:27
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Transient People posted:Then it's a good idea to not talk about a 'surgical stomp', because it wasn't. 'Shook was a moron who built no MR, Wickd sucks' is a much better match analysis and more honest to what really happened. C9 applied a stranglehold, but it wasn't WELL applied. It could've been easily broken by a better team. I'd maybe debate that it was reasonably well applied, but you have a fair point. It sometimes feels like the gap between the top Korean teams and every other region's front runners is so great that it sometimes becomes difficult to asses performance. Our actual comparison will come when we see how clean the White Shield win over Alliance is. Alliance won't win baring divine intervention, but I do think they'll put up more of a fight than DP did.
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Sep 26, 2014 06:33
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Definitely. Once we start getting the C9/Alliance vs White Shield games, we'll be able to actually judge whether C9 has a shot or if they're going into the trashcan after sneaking out of groups. Should be fun games to watch, even if they're stomps.
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Sep 26, 2014 06:36
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Transient People posted:Definitely. Once we start getting the C9/Alliance vs White Shield games, we'll be able to actually judge whether C9 has a shot or if they're going into the trashcan after sneaking out of groups. Should be fun games to watch, even if they're stomps. Oh I'm sure they'll go in the can. With Royal Club already seeded to go up against Edward the NA squads will be facing nothing but the best teams in the world, even if all three of them make it out of groups. I could see the Koreans dropping a game or two, but losing a series? That would probably be the biggest upset ever if it happened. Still, I think this has been a really good showing for NA already. Unless C9 and LMQ choke on all their remaining games the region can go home happy however badly they get stomped in the finals. Going from getting none of your teams out of group play on the world stage to potentially all three is a pretty impressive improvement. Edit: It sounds weird, but of the NA teams I currently give LMQ the best shot at stealing a game if they make it out. Their tendency for reckless aggression gives them the best hope of snowballing any kind of advantage. TSM and C9, with their more measured play, seem much more likely to lose any lead they might luck into, since the White and Blue will just straight out play them given enough time. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 06:45
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Its pretty much guaranteed that all the 2 seeds leaving groups are going in the trashcan. Theres no team that is going to beat White, Blue, or Shield imo. Just try to enjoy what few games they win in the quarters. I'm hoping for an NA 3some vs Korea 
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Sep 26, 2014 06:46
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Tonight's games are loving stacked. That is all. Only one Kabum game. The rest is 4 korean vs. western games and OMG vs. Fnatic (twice? Is that right?)
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Sep 26, 2014 07:22
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mushi posted:Tonight's games are loving stacked. That is all. Only one Kabum game. The rest is 4 korean vs. western games and OMG vs. Fnatic (twice? Is that right?) G1: NaJin SHD vs.Alliance G2: Samsung Blue vs.Fnatic G3: NaJin SHD vs.Cloud 9 G4: OMG vs.Fnatic G5: Alliance vs.KaBuM! G6: Samsung Blue vs.LMQ
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Sep 26, 2014 07:25
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Libertine posted:G1: NaJin SHD vs.Alliance  dis gon be gud.If the west wins a game it's gonna be great. If they don't that'll be great too.
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Sep 26, 2014 07:36
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AnonSpore posted:
I don't think there's a single possible result that could be a waste there. Even KaBum! taking a game off Alliance would be a riot.
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Sep 26, 2014 07:54
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Libertine posted:G1: NaJin SHD vs.Alliance God drat am I glad I slept for like 6 hours this afternoon.
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Sep 26, 2014 08:03
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Alliance beating Kabum in 45 minutes by out-CS'ing them would be a perfectly plausible waste of everyones time
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Sep 26, 2014 08:03
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The Mash posted:Alliance beating Kabum in 45 minutes by out-CS'ing them would be a perfectly plausible waste of everyones time After yesterdays performance I wouldn't be surprised to see Alliance lose to them.
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Sep 26, 2014 08:07
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If the quarterfinals are NA vs Korea NA vs Korea NA vs Korea China v China I really don't know if I could laugh harder.
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Sep 26, 2014 08:49
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curiousCat posted:If the quarterfinals are People will then use the fact that 0 NA teams and 1 LPL team in the Semis as evidence of clear Chinese superiority. Re: scrims, I think hearing about them is useful, but not as a predictor. It is absolutely true that C9 is not a strong team in scrims. In particular, Hai is famous for playing really over-aggressive in scrims, because he wants to find the absolute limit of his champion's damage and all-in. Likewise, LMQ are very aggressive and not very-tryhard in scrims. Apparently an LMQ scrim involves LMQ all-inning you at the earliest opportunity in lane, and then continuing to all in you at every opportunity. They don't calculate risk, they just go. Apparently CLG vs. LMQ scrims, because Dlift and Vasili just went ham on eachother, would turn in to 40 kill games at 20 minutes all the time. This kind of scrimming has been a consistent reason why people underestimated LMQ. TSM have always been an extremely dominant team in scrims since end of S3-S4. However, when they were miles ahead of NA they used to pick off-meta champions in scrims so they could scout other teams and hide their own strategies: at various times different orgs refused to scrim them because of it (Dig especially, but also I believe Curse and CLG). Curse had a rep for consistently missing/being late for scrims in the old days when Saint was running the show. Shook apparently is godlike in scrims but has never been able to translate it in to real games. Says something about mental fortitude? Or maybe his opponents are trying less hard than in real games.
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Sep 26, 2014 08:59
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I'm sure scrims have uses to the teams (otherwise they wouldn't participate in them!) but there's no way they're representative of actual crunch-time competition. You see the same in off-season sport, everyone knows the friendly games don't matter and the results shouldn't be taken as an indicator of anything.
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Sep 26, 2014 09:04
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Jayisspecial posted:Meteos and his team played one of the best looking games of their careers and the first thing Sjokz says to him is "hmm what a worthless game." Really? Sjokz is confirmed hates NA. She fires shots in the EU/NA thing all the time.
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Sep 26, 2014 09:09
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Save is insanely good, I wish the camera focused on his play more. Seems they spend the whole game mid and bot. E: Also LMQ are gonna make it out of groups and take a game off a Korean team you watch.
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Sep 26, 2014 09:19
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Austrian mook posted:E: Also LMQ are gonna make it out of groups and take a game off a Korean team you watch. If anyone can do it, LMQ can. Their hyper aggression defiantly gives them the best shot of converting some early luck into a crazy snowball.
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Sep 26, 2014 09:36
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They are also vs. Blue, who apparently have a weaker early game. And it's not like LMQ has trouble closing games out when they have a lead. (I believe in XWX. The Dream!) Honestly, it's the Shield games that have me  today. Come on C9, show us what you've learned.
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Sep 26, 2014 09:57
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mistaya posted:They are also vs. Blue, who apparently have a weaker early game. I mean, they do, but it's relative to KTA's early game AKA the best in the world. Unlike EDG, who people compare them to, they can trash you early game if they realise they're better at that as well as better late. But they won't take a 50/50 chance on a lead if they know they will win lategame. Risks have to be calculated against the certainty of being able to win a 40 minute + game.
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Sep 26, 2014 10:00
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aww yea time for esports get hype
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Sep 26, 2014 10:05
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