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Daemonlasher posted:Entire game looked like a counselling session for Deft. It's amazing to me how the organization and team comes together to help this guy get it under control after he broke down. That being said jesus did he channel his fury into this game, I don't think his bloodlust will be satisfied until he gets a penta against FNC According to his interview Rekkles gave him a hug after that game and he respects him a lot, so I don't think Deft is particularly out for FNC blood. I'm starting to think EU is just Dade's cryptonite or something.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:08
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Bankerfox posted:According to his interview Rekkles gave him a hug after that game and he respects him a lot, so I don't think Deft is particularly out for FNC blood. I'm starting to think EU is just Dade's cryptonite or something. Or Rekkles doesn't know the monster he has reawakened and should be arrested for treason against the non-Korean LoL scene. His only chance of pardon should be to put down the monster he has unwittingly unleashed.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:10
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Ihki posted:What is this supposed to mean, Seraph has shown a consistently terrible bottom tier performance as a competitive player and he doesn't even play mid lane. Are we comparing him to one of the kings of the NALCS stat sheets, someone who's played really well at Worlds so far According to the stats some dude posted he is actually top 3 in Kill participation, KDA etc. Bottom 3 in gold. So not sure if you could call that bottom tier performance. Since Gold is really a factor of whether the team gives him any priority in farm. I was just mentioning that he's a good Yasuo player like XWX. Honestly individual performance seems to more reflect how much gold these guys get on their teams. XWX gets a large share of his team's total gold. Seraph gets near the bottom. If CLG gets rid of their team leaders like Link and Doublelift who pretty much lead their teams to disaster we might see some different stats. TLDR; I think Seraph is a better player than CLG's playstyle has shown him to be.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:11
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IBentMyWookie posted:If CLG gets rid of their team leaders like Link and Doublelift who pretty much lead their teams to disaster we might see some different stats. TLDR; I think Seraph is a better player than CLG's playstyle has shown him to be.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:17
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Seraph is really good and as his communication and English improves he's only going to look better and better.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:28
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IBentMyWookie posted:According to the stats some dude posted he is actually top 3 in Kill participation, KDA etc. Bottom 3 in gold. "Top 3" and "Bottom 3" have a 33% overlap and are hugely obfuscating the actual results, so not sure why you'd use both of those for stating anything. Is Seraph supposed to be compared to junglers and supports on the other side and mid/ADC on the other? But let's see those stats. I think every kind of metric and form of qualitative analysis points to the opposite, which made it weird to hear he's a top contender for the best Yasuo in the West, a role he doesn't even play. That said, he's CLG's #5 in KDA, #3 in GPM, #4 in assists (#5 is Dlift with most kills), #1 in deaths and #4 in kills in the recent LCS split. Like every single top laner in competitive League of Legends, he gets less gold than his team's ADC and mid laner. He looks terrifyingly bad in stats and a lot of the time, even worse in game. I don't think it can be argued that he and Westrice are in a league of their own. I guess there's the argument that despite his being one of the worst LCS players on record, he's actually a top level player once he gets past his nerves. It's just that it's hard to find a single game in record where that shows. He played alright against a challenger team in the relegation series I guess! Or you could say he's just getting thrown to the wolves so CLG can play their protect the Doublelift comp, but then you probably haven't watched CLG do their best to play the exact opposite kind macrostrategic game all season. e: Sorry if that's a bit much. I have a huge rear end chip on my shoulder about Seraph. Comparatively he's one of the worst players in LCS history, that's how bad he is, and I kind of feel bad for him for it. Ihki fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 17:34
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Watching the last game - Dade's Yasuo 
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Sep 26, 2014 17:47
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Bankerfox posted:According to his interview Rekkles gave him a hug after that game and he respects him a lot, so I don't think Deft is particularly out for FNC blood. I'm starting to think EU is just Dade's cryptonite or something. Rekkles has unleashed Defts maximum potential.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:58
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Bankerfox posted:I think any top laner would look bad in the CLG playstyle honestly; they consistently throw them to the wolves. It's basically this. CLG's play style is similar to Royals in that all of their resources are poured into making sure their bottom lane succeeds. The difference their jungler is no Insec and they have no other carry than Doublelift most of the time. Games where Link/Dexter do very well are games that CLG win.
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Sep 26, 2014 18:01
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I feel bad for Seraph cause in solo queue it seems like he just loves to play carry laners like nid and yasuo top and stuff, then in CLG they just make him feed on boring champs e: basically he wants to be Save but they make him be Darien Lovechop fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 18:03
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Bankerfox posted:Yeah his pool is basically TF/Zed/Ryze/Yasuo. Though I thought he could play Ziggs proficiently now. He's also the best AP Kogmaw I've ever seen by far. He is unreal on that champion. Lovechop posted:I feel bad for Seraph cause in solo queue it seems like he just loves to play carry laners like nid and yasuo top and stuff, then in CLG they just make him feed on boring champs I cannot think of a less apt comparison for Seraph than Darien.
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Sep 26, 2014 18:14
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Disinterested posted:I cannot think of a less apt comparison for Seraph than Darien. I didn't watch much of the end half of NA LCS but when he first came over it seemed every game they were like 'yeah just keep pressuring top and get camped and die but we'll probably get something out of it' (i'm not relating him to m5 era darien, just more recent darien) e: also i'm not saying he plays like him just that they shove him into that role and it's not his bag Lovechop fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 18:18
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Disinterested posted:He's also the best AP Kogmaw I've ever seen by far. He is unreal on that champion. I feel I have to see those games now. 
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Sep 26, 2014 18:19
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Ihki posted:"Top 3" and "Bottom 3" have a 33% overlap and are hugely obfuscating the actual results, so not sure why you'd use both of those for stating anything. Is Seraph supposed to be compared to junglers and supports on the other side and mid/ADC on the other? That's fine I don't particularly care if you don't like Seraph. He is a good player though but hasn't shown when it counted. You can either blame him for that or his team. But the stats I'm referring to was just among the NALCS toplaners. I don't see much use comparing him to other roles. It may just be nerves because he apparently does extremely well in scrims. When looking at CLG I tend to blame the leaders for their losses. The guys who got the most gold and responsibility failed. But again that's looking at them in isolation as individuals and not sure if that's enyirely fair either, CLG with the exact same members may be really successful with proper coaching and mentoring. They showed moments of brilliance during the summer split. I definitely don't get your hate for Seraph when he is without a doubt the hardest working guy on that team besides Aphromoo. Honestly if they did a slash and burn I'd only keep those two players. IBentMyWookie fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 18:25
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Dade's champion pool is really not an issue anymore. He plays a ridiculous Ziggs. In champions summer playoffs (just the playoffs!) he played: Ahri, Zed, Ryze, TF, Kog, Kassadin, Ziggs, and Yasuo.
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Sep 26, 2014 18:26
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Bankerfox posted:I feel I have to see those games now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsY-qki3XHo&list=UUKDkGnyeib7mcU7LdD3x0jQ Dread. loving dread.
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Sep 26, 2014 18:30
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Disinterested posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsY-qki3XHo&list=UUKDkGnyeib7mcU7LdD3x0jQ Holy poo poo that was amazing. That team fight around baron and red buff when most of Blue was low, and then the ace was unreal. Bankerfox fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 18:46
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IBentMyWookie posted:That's fine I don't particularly care if you don't like Seraph. He is a good player though but hasn't shown when it counted. You can either blame him for that or his team. But the stats I'm referring to was just among the NALCS toplaners. quote:I definitely don't get your hate for Seraph when he is without a doubt the hardest working guy on that team besides Aphromoo. Honestly if they did a slash and burn I'd only keep those two players. And I don't hate Seraph, I feel bad for him. He's doomed to gently caress up playing what's probably the most strategically complex (and comms dependent) role in League without knowing the local language. It's obvious he knows he's not doing well and he has no loving clue how he could improve. Ihki fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 18:50
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Ihki posted:Where does this show, in solo queue? And where are these stats from, besides for the worst in LCS gold income stats? They aren't true when looking at the table I linked. Subjectively he's so bad that I'd like to at least see where you can find stats that make him look favorable compared to, say, a shithouse player like Innox (who actually stepped up in the late season). He's been so impossibly bad I don't even know what to say if the point of discussion is comparing his recent split's stats to other top laners. I can't agree that top lane is the most strategically complex role. Mid lane has a lot more decision making with roaming and ward placements due to possibilities on both sides. Jungle has to keep watch over the -entire- map and Korean meta has demonstrated the strength of counter ganking when you have the vision control. It's very often Jungle is the first back and decides where their first couple of wards go, on top of having to balance this out with farming so they aren't too far behind.
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Sep 26, 2014 19:20
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Dade is the Yasuo I have weird, life-questioning dreams about being.
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Sep 26, 2014 19:32
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Alliance are now the biggest choke artists in Group D, having taken 36:33 to defeat Kabum.
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Sep 26, 2014 19:42
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Daemonlasher posted:I can't agree that top lane is the most strategically complex role. Mid lane has a lot more decision making with roaming and ward placements due to possibilities on both sides. Jungle has to keep watch over the -entire- map and Korean meta has demonstrated the strength of counter ganking when you have the vision control. It's very often Jungle is the first back and decides where their first couple of wards go, on top of having to balance this out with farming so they aren't too far behind. The top lane, with lane freeze/shove strategies combined with lane swap/teleport tactics, gets really loving complex no matter which way you look at it. Maybe what I'm saying is 1-1½ months old in terms of this having recently changed with a lot of teams starting to play their ADCs as solo laners, making the whole side lane circus a very weird tango of early game rotations for a few more roles past the top laner. This is really cool. In terms of laning, tops have started running into some extremely awkward 2v2 (top+support vs adc+support) lanes that just make very little sense looking at conventional wisdom, on top of all the 1v2 lanes they're already used to. For junglers (being the most complex), I don't know what to think. Maybe you're right on some level, but I've always figured a good jungler is enabled by effective laning strategies, not the other way around. Same goes for vision control, it's everyone's job. Which ever way that goes, at the very least I'm confident top is the most strategically complex lane to play.
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Sep 26, 2014 19:44
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Real talk, I used to be a huge critic of Dade after worlds last year. His upswing after that failure, and his return to form and an even higher level has convinced me he's the real deal. On the subject of strategy in league, I think mid/jungle are the most important roles strategically at this point, just because it provides you so much control over the map in vision and roaming potential. Bankerfox fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 19:44
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Thinking about today's games, it's crazy how hard C9's botlane lost to Shield's. Sneaky/Lemon looked REALLY bad in an actual 2v2. I'm not surprised that they've been laneswapping every game if this is how hard they are going to lose to the best of the best. That being said, if they can pull out one more win against [A], then there's no way they're not getting out of that group.
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Sep 26, 2014 19:54
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Bankerfox posted:On the subject of strategy in league, I think mid/jungle are the most important roles strategically at this point, just because it provides you so much control over the map in vision and roaming potential. I don't think the preceding discussion was of importance, but complexity. Nonetheless I'd name mid lane as the most valuable role for Worlds, by far honestly. Beyond that it's really team dependent what role comes in second place, which I figure is a huge success in Riot's balance design for this season. Even supports get to carry, it's so cool.
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Sep 26, 2014 19:55
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There is room to be a thinker in every role, but the way Seraph plays doesn't suggest to me that he has the 'master tactician' approach to toplane like Balls or Dyrus. He seems to want to be more of a playmaker on a team that doesn't want to employ him as one (I don't think he's good enough for it either, but you may as well try to play to his strengths).
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Sep 26, 2014 19:55
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Sexpansion posted:Thinking about today's games, it's crazy how hard C9's botlane lost to Shield's. Sneaky/Lemon looked REALLY bad in an actual 2v2. I'm not surprised that they've been laneswapping every game if this is how hard they are going to lose to the best of the best. That being said, if they can pull out one more win against [A], then there's no way they're not getting out of that group. Yeah C9 didn't respect how fast Corki can shove early and was in range of a Thresh hook after NWS hit level 2. Elementary mistake at ~230 to 3 minutes in caused them to get far behind and they didn't do themselves any favors after that.
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Sep 26, 2014 20:01
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LMQ and C9 might have gotten rocked by their respective Korean opponents, but at least both of them essentially control their own destinies and can advance by beating teams they've already beaten. C9 vs Alliance tomorrow is going to be a pretty big game.
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Sep 26, 2014 20:10
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it's easy to misunderstand how complex top lane tactics are. Flame-style insane wave control has got to be some of the most meticulously planned and tactical stuff in the game, it just doesn't look cool or sound really flashy. top lane is really deep.
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Sep 26, 2014 20:14
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Ihki posted:Where does this show, in solo queue? And where are these stats from, besides for the worst in LCS gold income stats? They aren't true when looking at the table I linked. Subjectively he's so bad that I'd like to at least see where you can find stats that make him look favorable compared to, say, a shithouse player like Innox (who actually stepped up in the late season). He's been so impossibly bad I don't even know what to say if the point of discussion is comparing his recent split's stats to other top laners. If Seraph sticks around for another split I guess we'll find out if you're right in that he's terrible. The stats I'm referring to are from Ongamers stats on Quas some dude linked on here. He's bottom for gold across the LCS but is top half for kill participation and other related team participation stats. I feel those stats are more indicative of the role they gave him on CLG which was really just let Link and Doublelift get all the farm but fail to carry. IBentMyWookie fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 20:25
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IBentMyWookie posted:If Seraph sticks around for another split I guess we'll find out if you're right in that he's terrible. The stats I'm referring to are from Ongamers stats on Quas some dude linked on here. He's bottom for gold across the LCS but is top half for kill participation and other related team participation stats.  At least his kill participation (on his team heading to relegations!) was almost one percentage higher than the average, very impressive!Yeah I guess the difference with us is that I'm looking at Seraph playing a loving horrible (like, really bad!) game in LCS on a team about to fall out of the LCS right until the last moment when they started playing four protect the Doublelift, you're seeing him own solo queue on a mid lane champion. We'll see how this works out, but I'd honestly be amazed if Seraph gets to play a game in S5.
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Sep 26, 2014 20:44
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I gotta say, this worlds has been much more entertaining than the previous years. Making teams fight for their spot is great.
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Sep 26, 2014 20:47
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Lovechop posted:it's easy to misunderstand how complex top lane tactics are. Flame-style insane wave control has got to be some of the most meticulously planned and tactical stuff in the game, it just doesn't look cool or sound really flashy. top lane is really deep. Arguably you have that bottom lane as well on top of having to factor in for 2 lane opponents at times. Supports are generally more responsible aswell for warding areas up the river near mid as opposed to top lane which doesn't roam as heavily. There's obviously exceptions to the rule and unique cases but for the most part? I would argue against top being as complex as some of the other lanes. Roaming is apart of the lane you pick, regardless of the fact that it's not apart of the -lane- itself.
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Sep 26, 2014 20:49
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So when was it that phreak said something worthy of getting excited about (on Thursday)? I normally just VoD the games I want to see. And apparently I'm going to watch basically everything from this morning. I'd like to see that on top of everything else.
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Sep 26, 2014 20:49
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Ihki posted:Was this what you were referring to? Somehow his KDA is #7 instead of top 3 That just means his team had a low KDA overall for their games. Since his participation percentages are actually quite high. Really arguing about KDA top or bottom really doesn't illustrate anything. You're also ignoring the dead last in gold. Which really is more indicative of how the team played more than that he doesn't have the mechanics to farm. I've seen all the games and I don't really see loving horrible play. In fact I would say Doublelift and Link led to most of the team's losses by either bad calls, or bad positioning. Think Seraph hosed up a couple teleports that was about it. He didn't have much impact on the team's losses. Then you have CLG's analyst saying that Seraph performs really well in their scrims. So... You just come off a little extreme with your opinion when CLG as a whole didn't deliver. Blaming anyone other than the team leaders is kind of moot imo. I mean blaming the foreign kid who doesn't make the calls for just being terribad and dragging their team down is kind of bullshit. IBentMyWookie fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 20:52
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IBentMyWookie posted:That just means his team had a low KDA overall for their games. Since his participation percentages are actually quite high. Really arguing about KDA top or bottom really doesn't illustrate anything. Kill participation is a completely worthless solo laner's stat for a variety of reasons but I don't think this is a profitable time to get on a soapbox about that. He's about 1/50 better than average in terms of kill participation (what does this mean?) and worst in the league in terms of right about everything else. So despite his terrifying stats, he's played well. To be honest, I'm less than surprised you would think so. Time will prove us wrong. Ihki fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 20:58
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Lemon's Nami pick baffled me. He's not good on the champ. In particular his ults were terrible, and he took so many Thresh slaps to the face at level 1 I was at a loss for what he was trying to accomplish. Play Janna. Morg, or Braum. Anything but LemonNami.
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Sep 26, 2014 21:31
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Ihki posted:Kill participation is a completely worthless solo laner's stat for a variety of reasons but I don't think this is a profitable time to get on a soapbox about that. He's about 1/50 better than average in terms of kill participation (what does this mean?) and worst in the league in terms of right about everything else. Personally I hope he gets another chance unlike Nien got. Balls performance dependent on how much gold he gets has pretty much convinced me that it's extremely important on evaluating how toplane plays out. Time will tell. I'm much less willing to see another split of Doublelift talking trash and failing to deliver though. Haven't been keeping up on the news with CLG though so don't really know what's happening with them.
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Sep 26, 2014 22:05
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IBentMyWookie posted:Personally I hope he gets another chance unlike Nien got. Balls performance dependent on how much gold he gets has pretty much convinced me that it's extremely important on evaluating how toplane plays out. Time will tell. Nien quit without warning and of his own violation. He had the support of team members. Clg has been very patient with their current roster, and if it changes i dont see seraph being the one forced out. Jayisspecial fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 22:16
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This fuckken Shield vs Alliance game
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