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Isn't the 2014 Corolla the same car from 2003?
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Sep 27, 2014 15:50
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Subaru has stayed loyale to their image of being the quirky outsider in the car industry. Subaru's car designs and their image are polarizing, but they've remained committed to their design, emphasis on safety, boxer engines, and symmetrical AWD system. On the design front, some of the quirkiness has waned and they are now venturing into blandness. Fortunately they killed off the Tribeca, which was the blandest of all, but the Legacy and Forester are slowly being whittled away with redesigns until they finally unrecognizable from a sea of other bland sedans and small SUVs. The XV Crosstrek and new STI are a definite hit with me, though. I love the lines and how different they look from anything else on the road. I don't love the new Outback, but they're staying true to the Outback look. On the consumer technology front, Subaru has always been behind the times. The Subaru dealership I worked for was also a Kia dealership, and the differences in technologies and amenities offered was huge. Subaru is making huge strides with technology in safety and their CVTs, but when it comes to basic rear end poo poo like stereos, they are really lacking. Ford has SYNC, Hyundai has BlueLink, Kia has UVO, and Subaru... well, gently caress it. You get Bluetooth, hope that's enough for you. Subaru has an imprezive commitment to stewardship. Their manufacturing plants have been zero-landfill since 2004, and they build their cars to stay on the road longer in order to minimize their impact on the environment. This year will mark the seventh year of their Share Their Love campaign, during which new car buyers can designate a charity of their choice for Subaru to donate to. Subaru's way forward involves developing new hybrid technologies and cleaner vehicles, in keeping with their dedication to the environment. It is my hope that they will keep developing quirky cars. My current favorite in the Subaru lineup is the XV Crosstrek, because I feel that it really emobides the quirkiness that Subaru is known for, and the hybrid variant also represents Subaru's environmental concern. I'd love to see a bump in power because it's a little too tame for my taste, but I understand that Subaru wants to keep their lineup simple by not offering much customization on engine options from the factory. I would also like to see Subaru rededicate themselves to their WRC racing legacy. They've developed a great car with the new 2015 STI, now let's see a factory team rip it up.
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Sep 27, 2014 16:24
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BrokenKnucklez posted:They could have killed Buick stateside and left Pontiac as the performance brand. Then you'd be having the same discussion between Pontiac and Chevrolet. Old GM just had way too many drat brands. Even now I'd argue that GMC has no reason to exist, but clearly at GM they think there's still a net gain to having trucks a non-Chevy dealership can sell with some vaguely different sheetmetal. Ford only had Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln, and still had to mercy-kill Mercury for having no reason to exist. I'd say the same for Chrysler-Plymouth-Dodge-Eagle-Jeep but after killing off Plymouth and Eagle, they spun RAM off and tried to make SRT a standalone 
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Sep 27, 2014 16:44
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Subaru's problem is that its become pretty obvious that all decisions are corporate decisions looking at their model range. I find it really hard to see Subaru in its modern form willing to approve something similar to their past models like the XT, Justy or SVX. They used to be willing to gamble but in the context of Subaru their current range is extremely conservative. I think their problem is the fact that they're tied to the Boxer engine, they aren't enough of a luxury brand to justify the extra costs associated with these engines. And while a longitudinal set up for AWD was superior back in the 80s/90s transverse engine setups have long since caught up and offer better packaging and weight distribution. If they change though they're going to upset the subaru fanboys.
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Sep 27, 2014 17:06
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1500quidporsche posted:Subaru's problem is that its become pretty obvious that all decisions are corporate decisions looking at their model range. I recently read Where The Suckers Moon, which is a book about how Subaru of America figured out how to actually sell a loving car around the late-80s period of when the Legacy was introduced. Subaru's core customer (New England) is effectively permanently assured. You can start to see how the balance of power in decision making slipped away from Subaru of Japan (an engineer-driven approach that gave us the XT and SVX) and moved towards SOA (the sales and marketing approach that produced the Forester, Outback, and crack-dealer levels of profit). It'd be interesting to see an update to the book that covers what must've happened with the introduction of the performance and halo models, and also what the gently caress they were thinking when they greenlit the Tribeca. Now that Subaru regularly outsells VW in the US market, I think it'd be something worthwhile to read.  quote:Time and again, Subaru reveals itself to be the most hilariously incompetent of Japanese automakers. In one vignette, Rothenberg describes how a Japanese designer proudly shows a visiting Subaru of America delegation the interior of the new XT, noting that he put in checkerboard seat fabric “for the American dude.” Another chapter details how Wieden+Kennedy’s “visionary” television director refuses to actually put any shots of the Subaru Legacy in his commercial, focusing instead on homoerotic shots of sweaty, muscular line workers. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/10/book-review-where-the-suckers-moon/ Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Sep 27, 2014 |
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Sep 27, 2014 17:43
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1500quidporsche posted:Subaru's problem is that its become pretty obvious that all decisions are corporate decisions looking at their model range. The economic downturn had made some manufacturers less willing to take a gamble on weird models. There's something to be said for appealing to the Subaru fanboys. They rely a lot on them for their business. Not just fanboys like SSS, SIF, and myself, but moreeso the boring middle-aged people who replace their aging Outback with another Outback and convince their friends and family to join the cult of Subaru too. Ever seen those ownership badges? There's a sense of pride that comes with being on your fifth Subaru, and it keeps you coming back for more. SSS, I will add that book to my ever-growning list of things to read.
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Sep 27, 2014 18:20
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Phone posted:Isn't the 2014 Corolla the same car from 2003? It used to be, but they changed it. The 2014 Corolla is the same car as a 2012 Dodge Dart.  
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Sep 27, 2014 18:32
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EVERYWHERE 
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Seat Safety Switch posted:I recently read Where The Suckers Moon, which is a book about how Subaru of America figured out how to actually sell a loving car around the late-80s period of when the Legacy was introduced. Subaru's core customer (New England) is effectively permanently assured. You can start to see how the balance of power in decision making slipped away from Subaru of Japan (an engineer-driven approach that gave us the XT and SVX) and moved towards SOA (the sales and marketing approach that produced the Forester, Outback, and crack-dealer levels of profit). I've actually been meaning to pick up that book for a long time and you just reminded me. Does it talk much about the SVX, I actually own one so if it talks alot about the disaster that surrounded that car I'd probably order it today. The SVX is a great example of the the Japanese giving the Americans a product that only really would work in Japan and the Americans fundamentally not understanding it. My understanding is the SVX was supposed to be a GT car and in japan GT cars always came with a four speed automatic in that period. Subaru of America quickly disregarded this and tried to sell it as a performance car. You can find some really laughable footage given to dealers where they put the SVX through performance tests with other cars that they clearly manipulated to make sure the SVX won (The most memorable one was a dead start acceleration in snow against a Dodge Stealth that lasted all of something like 10 feet).
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Sep 27, 2014 18:38
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Checkered seat fabric owns. gently caress THE HATERS.
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Sep 27, 2014 18:39
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1500quidporsche posted:I've actually been meaning to pick up that book for a long time and you just reminded me. Does it talk much about the SVX, I actually own one so if it talks alot about the disaster that surrounded that car I'd probably order it today. Yeah, the SVX is constantly referred to as the saviour of the brand up until it arrives at which point interest immediately shifts to the Legacy. It's not super deep but you'll learn a few things about it, probably. I got it on Kindle.
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Sep 27, 2014 19:16
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I kinda want to rip on all car makers in general. They put so much "connectivity" poo poo in then all these drivers aids to help driving. I personally blame cell phones and texting for all this mess because people cant put down the phone for 10 seconds. Pretty sure we were just fine in the past with a boring CD player and a few power accessories. OK now get off my lawn.
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Sep 27, 2014 21:15
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BrokenKnucklez posted:I kinda want to rip on all car makers in general. They put so much "connectivity" poo poo in then all these drivers aids to help driving. I personally blame cell phones and texting for all this mess because people cant put down the phone for 10 seconds. Pretty sure I remember the stereotype back in the 90s of drivers being distracted by fiddling with their radios instead of yakking on cellphones. It's the same with turning around to slap unruly kids or cramming a baconator into your mouth while driving: if you don't care about paying attention to the road in the first place, it doesn't matter what gadgets are or aren't there, you will find something to be distracted by. Not much the manufacturers can do about that.
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Sep 27, 2014 21:50
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Fucknag posted:Pretty sure I remember the stereotype back in the 90s of drivers being distracted by fiddling with their radios instead of yakking on cellphones. Reminds me of when I got in an accident several years ago - the rep from my insurance company couldn't figure out how I managed to rear end someone without being distracted by a phone or the radio.  It's easy. Person in front of me started to make a turn, I looked to my left to see if I could make my turn, and didn't expect her to slam on the brakes halfway into the intersection. 
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Sep 27, 2014 22:18
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goatse guy posted:Subaru's way forward involves developing new hybrid technologies and cleaner vehicles, in keeping with their dedication to the environment. It is my hope that they will keep developing quirky cars. My current favorite in the Subaru lineup is the XV Crosstrek, because I feel that it really emobides the quirkiness that Subaru is known for, and the hybrid variant also represents Subaru's environmental concern. I'd love to see a bump in power because it's a little too tame for my taste, but I understand that Subaru wants to keep their lineup simple by not offering much customization on engine options from the factory. I would also like to see Subaru rededicate themselves to their WRC racing legacy. They've developed a great car with the new 2015 STI, now let's see a factory team rip it up. How's the Hybrid Crosstrek selling? Last time I was at my local dealership they weren't selling very well. I know that the regular Crosstrek was selling very well and they couldn't keep them on the lots. I know a lot of people give Subaru grief because of their interior but I actually prefer the more strip down, barebones look of them. My girlfriend's Corolla and my friend's Civic both have way too much poo poo in them. They may look like older, well-maintained cars but to me they look much better than most new cars with their giant screens and the software that seems to be very buggy.
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Sep 27, 2014 22:45
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mariooncrack posted:How's the Hybrid Crosstrek selling? Last time I was at my local dealership they weren't selling very well. I know that the regular Crosstrek was selling very well and they couldn't keep them on the lots. In subaru's best ever sales month, they sold 8244 XV crosstreks, 747 were hybrids. They sold more XV crosstrek hybrids than BRZs http://media.subaru.com/pressrelease/646/1/subaru-reports-best-ever-sales-month This wouldn't have happened if the BRZ had a turbo.
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Sep 27, 2014 22:50
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I hate how the new trend is making cheap poo poo look like expensive poo poo. Look at the amount of stupid chrome plastic on a corolla or a honda (or, god forbid, a nissan) and tell me that it looks good. Nissan is particularly bad about overstyling and chroming things to make it look nicer than it is 
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Sep 27, 2014 23:16
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Wild EEPROM posted:Nissan is particularly bad about overstyling and chroming things to make it look nicer than it is Prior to that, they slapped fake woodgrain on everything (see nearly every 2nd gen Altima, except for XE and SE models - GXE was the most common, then GLE - I've only seen a few SEs in the wild, and I've yet to ever see a 2nd gen XE). But they do seem to be the worst of the chrome offenders, especially on the headlights/taillights.  mariooncrack posted:I know a lot of people give Subaru grief because of their interior but I actually prefer the more strip down, barebones look of them. My girlfriend's Corolla and my friend's Civic both have way too much poo poo in them. They may look like older, well-maintained cars but to me they look much better than most new cars with their giant screens and the software that seems to be very buggy. The current and last gen Civics, IMO, have one of the worst interiors of anything in the past decade. A massive sea of cheap plastic, surrounded by more plastic, surrounded by a lovely radio and a cluster that's always lit (combined with DRLs). Big surprise that most cars I see driving with DRLs at night are the same Civics (and the ones driving with high beams on, this is why you don't make the entire dash blue damnit). 
randomidiot fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Sep 27, 2014 |
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Sep 27, 2014 23:26
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Powershift posted:This wouldn't have happened if the BRZ had a turbo. How did Toyota and Subaru gently caress up that car so bad. They want it to be so many things its not even funny. If they just stuck with one direction it would've been a lot better.
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Sep 27, 2014 23:34
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mariooncrack posted:How's the Hybrid Crosstrek selling? Last time I was at my local dealership they weren't selling very well. I know that the regular Crosstrek was selling very well and they couldn't keep them on the lots. I stopped working for Subaru in May. Our dealership's hybrid Crosstrek sat on our lot for a very long time, but I lived a place where hybrids didn't hold much appeal. They sold much better in markets in more progressive areas.
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Sep 28, 2014 01:51
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meatpimp posted:It used to be, but they changed it. The 2014 Corolla is the same car as a 2012 Dodge Dart. I really like the way the Dart looks. I see them all over the place and they are sharp looking cars. The Corolla looks aggressive to me the same way my washing machine would look aggressive if I Sharpied a mad face on it.
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Sep 28, 2014 01:52
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some texas redneck posted:The current and last gen Civics, IMO, have one of the worst interiors of anything in the past decade. A massive sea of cheap plastic, surrounded by more plastic, surrounded by a lovely radio and a cluster that's always lit (combined with DRLs). Go hop in a Camry, it's probably one of the most dreadful cars I've ever sat in. 1500quidporsche posted:How did Toyota and Subaru gently caress up that car so bad. They want it to be so many things its not even funny. If they just stuck with one direction it would've been a lot better. Yeah, they hosed up the formula of a simple, back-to-basics sports car with 200hp on tap and RWD. God, what a bunch of idiots. 
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Sep 28, 2014 04:33
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Throatwarbler posted:For the love of god bring over a full size RWD V8 flagship i.e. the Chevy SS. I agreed with most of your stuff about Buick, but I'm kind of curious, what would a rear wheel drive V8 Buick do for GM other than stepping on Cadillac's toes? They've already got a decent full size sedan in the form of the Lacrosse, and I can't imagine what it would lack compared to some kind of hypothetical 2016 Electra or whatever.
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Sep 28, 2014 05:16
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razorscooter posted:I agreed with most of your stuff about Buick, but I'm kind of curious, what would a rear wheel drive V8 Buick do for GM other than stepping on Cadillac's toes? They've already got a decent full size sedan in the form of the Lacrosse, and I can't imagine what it would lack compared to some kind of hypothetical 2016 Electra or whatever. If the car didn't already exist then the case for coming up with one from scratch would be a bit more tenuous. It will give Buick the credibility of a luxury brand the same way the LS does for Lexus, another brand that mostly sells FWD cars and also a major Buick competitor.
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Sep 28, 2014 05:40
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Cyrezar posted:Ford doesn't have a single RWD platform other than the Mustang so this complicates things as I think they would benefit from bringing back a flagship Continental [...]. Not true, F150  Remember, a Continental is supposed to have a 5700lb curb weight.
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Sep 28, 2014 07:14
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Raluek posted:Not true, F150 My brother! expedition chassis(basically F-150 with IRS), and 2 3.5 ecoboosts bolted together for a 900 ft/lb 7 liter quad turbo V12. Get it out the door under 80 grand, and everyone is happy. edit: you can buy THREE 3.5L ecoboost f-150s for 80 grand. That's 12000lbs of aluminum truck, 18 cylinders, 6 turbos, 18 gears, 15 wheels/tires 6 LCD screens and 9 seats. Surely they can make a proper continental for lower cost. Make it happen ford. Powershift fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Sep 28, 2014 |
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Sep 28, 2014 07:22
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Phone posted:Yeah, they hosed up the formula of a simple, back-to-basics sports car with 200hp on tap and RWD. God, what a bunch of idiots. Let me be clear, I'm not attacking the car itself as I think its a great car at its core. I think Toyota competely hosed up the rollout. Everybody was expecting that car to be some super car that was going to spit in the face of an M3 and make Mustang owners weep with its super drifting skills. And then they started making some strange decisions like putting a Scion badge on it and slapping on Prius tires. It was almost as if they were backing down from all the concept cars we saw leading up to the production model. I have a little theory, if they somehow shoehorned that drivetrain into a corolla shell like the original AE86 it would've been a smash hit even if it took a hit in performance. The decision to market it as a distinct sportscar kind of built up expectations to an unreasonable level that it never could meet.
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Sep 28, 2014 18:37
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1500quidporsche posted:Let me be clear, I'm not attacking the car itself as I think its a great car at its core. I think Toyota competely hosed up the rollout. Everybody was expecting that car to be some super car that was going to spit in the face of an M3 and make Mustang owners weep with its super drifting skills. And then they started making some strange decisions like putting a Scion badge on it and slapping on Prius tires. It was almost as if they were backing down from all the concept cars we saw leading up to the production model. I don't remember them ever trying to claim that it would "spit in the face of an M3 and make Mustang owners weep". From what I remember it was always marketed as a cheap, light, fun RWD sports car. I'm sorry that you had unreasonable expectations about what they were trying to accomplish with this car, but that doesn't automatically make it a bad car. Also, quote:I have a little theory, if they somehow shoehorned that drivetrain into a corolla shell like the original AE86 it would've been a smash hit even if it took a hit in performance. The decision to market it as a distinct sportscar kind of built up expectations to an unreasonable level that it never could meet. LOLing forever at this.
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Sep 28, 2014 19:02
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1500quidporsche posted:Let me be clear, I'm not attacking the car itself as I think its a great car at its core. I think Toyota competely hosed up the rollout. Everybody was expecting that car to be some super car that was going to spit in the face of an M3 and make Mustang owners weep with its super drifting skills. And then they started making some strange decisions like putting a Scion badge on it and slapping on Prius tires. It was almost as if they were backing down from all the concept cars we saw leading up to the production model. Yeah a badge and PRIUS tires completely hosed up the "rollout" of the car. That's right, a $10 plastic emblem and tires from a manufacturer where they probably already had a bulk deal in place completely ruined the Toyobaru twins. I have a little theory, you're a moron. e: hey IOC, is it possible to make it a probate-able offense to drag whining about the Toyobaru out of the FR-S/BRZ/GT86 quarantine thread?
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Sep 28, 2014 19:05
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Phone posted:I have a little theory, you're a moron. Didn't you just buy a Viper?
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Sep 28, 2014 19:06
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Viggen posted:Didn't you just buy a Viper? Yes.
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Sep 28, 2014 19:08
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Phone posted:Yes. I'd love to see how quickly you could shred "thin" tires.
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Sep 28, 2014 19:13
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1500quidporsche posted:I have a little theory, if they somehow shoehorned that drivetrain into a corolla shell like the original AE86 it would've been a smash hit even if it took a hit in performance. The decision to market it as a distinct sportscar kind of built up expectations to an unreasonable level that it never could meet.
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Sep 28, 2014 19:21
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Wild EEPROM posted:
Heh..in the process of black plasti-dipping a lot of the fake chrome on my '08 Maxima. Have considering doing some of the interior "wood" trim as well.
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Sep 28, 2014 19:31
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1500quidporsche posted:I have a little theory, if they somehow shoehorned that drivetrain into a corolla shell like the original AE86 it would've been a smash hit even if it took a hit in performance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scion_tC
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Sep 28, 2014 19:42
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Personally, I feel the 86 and BRZ should have been a turbodiesel manual sportswagons. Y'know the ones that everyone buys.
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Sep 28, 2014 20:54
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I do think a RWD hot hatch at a 20k-ish pricepoint would be awesome. But no-one will build it nowadays, and if they did, they wouldn't make much, if any, profit.
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Sep 28, 2014 20:58
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InitialDave posted:I do think a RWD hot hatch at a 20k-ish pricepoint would be awesome. The Lotus Talbot Sunbeam was pretty cool. I think that might have been the last one (unless you include the Starlet) But like you said, it's no longer feasible.
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Sep 28, 2014 21:05
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Wow guess my opinion is wrong then.... I'll just go out again and state that I do actually like the car. Sorry for the hurt feelings.
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Sep 28, 2014 21:14
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Ya'll act like the euro BMW 1 series doesn't exist. The lotus talbot sunbeam was 150hp in 2900lbs. A 3 door BMW 118i is 172hp in 3075lbs. it also comes as a 5 door, or with a diesel and a manual and sport suspension on the manual diesel and such. For the £25,110 toyota wants for the GT-86, you can get a 120D m-sport or 125i m-sport. I like the FRS/BRZ as well, but it's a mishmash of compromises, and hardcore fans are the worst human beings on the planet.
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Sep 28, 2014 21:30
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Powershift posted:Ya'll act like the euro BMW 1 series doesn't exist. Most do.
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Sep 28, 2014 21:37
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