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Regarding Grape Ape not knowing about the 3D Maneuver Gear being evidence against him being with Reiner et al.. was there ever any evidence that any information about the civilization within the walls flowed in BOTH directions? By the time we see Bertholdt, Reiner and Annie they've already been living in the walls for several years which is why they know about 3D Maneuver Gear. I feel like I may be missing something obvious though. As for the flashback thing in the first chapter, I can't help but think the first chapter title ("To You, 2,000 Years from Now") and the memories and the basement are all connected (Granted that's an awfully specific timeframe.)
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Oct 10, 2014 21:32
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Zogundar posted:Regarding Grape Ape not knowing about the 3D Maneuver Gear being evidence against him being with Reiner et al.. was there ever any evidence that any information about the civilization within the walls flowed in BOTH directions? Could be, but Bert & Reiner also seemed very surprised about Monkey Titan, if I remember correctly. Also, he almost killed then.
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Oct 10, 2014 21:47
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Elias_Maluco posted:Another question that just occurred me: how in the hell did father Reiss got out of there alive? Grisha left him alive on purpose.
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Oct 10, 2014 21:59
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RatHat posted:Grisha left him alive on purpose. Or... Reiss turned titan too and fought him and lost but managed to escape
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Oct 10, 2014 22:03
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RatHat posted:Grisha left him alive on purpose. Really? I didn't get that. It seems as chaos ensued, some fought, some screamed, people ran away... and it was just chance that he lived and the rest died.
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Oct 10, 2014 22:36
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That really is the burning question out of this, why would Grisha give up the coordinate? If it really is mind control you would think he could influence enough soldiers on his side to take over a district or something. There must be a reason he gave the coordinate to Eren. I doubt it's ideology alone. There must be something Eren can physically do with it. All but one of the Titan-shifters shown so far have been pretty young. If you think about it every faction presented so far wants the coordinate for their goals at domination. Reiner even said that Eren is the worst person in the world to have it. It's probably not a "He doesn't know how to use it properly and will cause a lot of collateral damage" but a "He will royally ruin everyone's plans if he learns how to use it." Eren is probably the unique character out of everyone in the story because in terms of ideals he would probably reject every faction in the story and use it for liberation. What interests me going forward is Mikasa's inevitable encounter with Kenny. She is devoted to Eren out of personal feelings, but also because he's the only family she has left. Now that he's going to end up being related to her, I wonder if she's at risk at defecting? Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Oct 11, 2014 |
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Oct 11, 2014 01:23
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Turin Turambar posted:Monkey Trouble really intrigues me. Even forgetting little thing like how he can create Titans from humans, or he can control titans (someone with Coordinate power!) or that he is intelligent (and somehow I don't think he is a normal shifter titan), what it really perplexed me is the moment Berthold and Reiner looked at him their faces changed to pure admiration, almost drooling. And even then it seems the moment didn't register with them, Ymir asked about him and Reiner didn't know what she was talking about monkeys.
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Oct 11, 2014 04:10
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It's not going to be a random Donkey Kong "now you have titans" plot element unless Donkey Kong used to be a scientist.
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Oct 11, 2014 07:22
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dogs named Charlie posted:It's not going to be a random Donkey Kong "now you have titans" plot element unless Donkey Kong used to be a scientist. He's said to be the most intelligent character in the story.
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Oct 11, 2014 07:48
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Nelson Mandingo posted:That really is the burning question out of this, why would Grisha give up the coordinate? If it really is mind control you would think he could influence enough soldiers on his side to take over a district or something. There must be a reason he gave the coordinate to Eren. Or it was just normal suicide? Maybe he has some responsibility for his wife's death and maybe the outcome when he went to central wasn't actually what he had in mind.
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Oct 11, 2014 07:56
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I think royal family and the ape titan probably have some sort of deal in place: - the royals offer the ape titan people to eat (normally themselves, now Eren) - the government keeps the human population under control, prevent technology from being developed In exchange the ape titan leaves humanity alone. I would not be at all surprised if the ape titan is also the one that actually made the wall, he can change people into titans and he can direct them. This would mean that the wall religion is worshipping him as their god. There could more like him, in which case he is just a representative of his kind. If there was a war between them and humanity in the past, humanity probably lost. Now, if the Royals don't meet their end of the deal (not sacrificing themselves, or not keeping humanity under control), the ape titan destroys part of humanity, either by destroying the walls or changing people into titans. This would explain why he was there in the first place (he came to eat the royal family) and leaving while testing defences (the royal family didn't come through, but he might have given them some time to fix things). We know there are strong sacrificial undertones to the royal family, but it's not clear why they could be sacrificing themselves for the greater good. We do know that at least one of them had a power (memory wipe). If powers are hereditary, periodically culling the royal family could be how the ape titan prevents powers from spreading. Especially the coordinate power would be dangerous to him. This would also explain why Reiner and Bertold want the coordinate power, they would use it to fight the ape titan. It may well be possible that they themselves have been turned to mindless titans by the ape titan in the past, which would explain their response to him. Of course, fighting the ape titan would mean dragging humanity into war, but they might find that acceptable. It would be setting up a choice for the fate of humanity: all out war for freedom or living peacefully and ignorantly under a dictatorship.
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Oct 11, 2014 09:49
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Or maybe they were invoking him and Grisha put an end to that, but that might be a bit too... mystical? for the setting?
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Oct 11, 2014 09:54
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My favorite part of this series is the posts in this thread where everyone has separate nicknames for the giant ape of which we haven't been given a name. Reading eight posts in a row where someone changes what they refer to him as is just wonderful.
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Oct 11, 2014 10:08
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I'm starting to like "Grape Ape" myself.
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Oct 11, 2014 10:20
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Curious George just makes sense.
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Oct 11, 2014 11:46
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Monkey Trouble is the one true name.
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Oct 11, 2014 16:41
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Beef Waifu posted:Monkey Trouble is the one true name. I want this to be in the thread title.
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Oct 11, 2014 16:53
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So in the shot of the probably Historia titan, there's a hand grabbing it, and it looks like it's overpowering it/her. That has to be Grisha, right? Is that female titan not Historia? Why would she be alive if she was getting beaten by Grisha, who ostensibly ate the whole family other than Reiss? Maybe I'm not understanding those fragmented flashbacks correctly. Also, I'm glad we're getting away from the political intrigue subplot, which had a ton of the most bland "twists" ever. Oh man, the aristocratic elites are the true power, and the king is a puppet! And they don't care about humanity, only their own interests! How shocking! The crazy setting/general weirdness of the titans is the best part of this, and it's the reason it's the only manga I've ever even wanted to read. It's great that we're getting back to the good parts.
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Oct 11, 2014 19:26
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Emron posted:So in the shot of the probably Historia titan, there's a hand grabbing it, and it looks like it's overpowering it/her. That has to be Grisha, right? Is that female titan not Historia? Why would she be alive if she was getting beaten by Grisha, who ostensibly ate the whole family other than Reiss? Maybe I'm not understanding those fragmented flashbacks correctly. Historia wasn't even there, how could it possibly have been her? It was someone else in the family, most likely Frieda considering she's the one who the panel above the two duking it out is focused on. As for why her hair's different, well the Colossal Titan doesn't have any hair at all.
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Oct 11, 2014 19:32
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Terper posted:Historia wasn't even there, how could it possibly have been her? It was someone else in the family, most likely Frieda considering she's the one who the panel above the two duking it out is focused on. As for why her hair's different, well the Colossal Titan doesn't have any hair at all. Yeah, that makes sense. I guess that implies Historia has the ability. It has to, right?
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Oct 11, 2014 19:32
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Emron posted:Yeah, that makes sense. I guess that implies Historia has the ability. It has to, right? Which, again, makes this panel even funnier: 
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Oct 11, 2014 19:49
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Terper posted:It is quite likely, yes. Rod will probably want her to gobble up Eren. I'm personally hoping for an outcome where literally every member of the 104 squad turns out to be a titan. Even Armin. He just doesn't know it yet.
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Oct 11, 2014 19:51
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I like the plot because it makes Reiss seem like this evil, calculating ruler in the shadows. He probably is, but he also cares about his family and seems like a chill guy when he isn't ruling a totalitarian monarchy. And Eren just realized his dad loving murdered them all. And considering how most coups go in real life, Erwin and friends might end up being worse than Reiss.
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Oct 11, 2014 19:53
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Emron posted:I'm personally hoping for an outcome where literally every member of the 104 squad turns out to be a titan. Even Armin. He just doesn't know it yet. We already know they all are.  
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Oct 11, 2014 19:55
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my dad posted:We already know they all are. God drat Mikasa titan would gently caress some poo poo up, love the little Armin titan though
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Oct 11, 2014 20:20
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terrordactle posted:I like the plot because it makes Reiss seem like this evil, calculating ruler in the shadows. He probably is, but he also cares about his family and seems like a chill guy when he isn't ruling a totalitarian monarchy. And Eren just realized his dad loving murdered them all. And considering how most coups go in real life, Erwin and friends might end up being worse than Reiss. I mean sure he doesn't give a poo poo if millions of people are murdered, but he loves his family
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Oct 11, 2014 20:26
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Emron posted:So in the shot of the probably Historia titan, there's a hand grabbing it, and it looks like it's overpowering it/her. That has to be Grisha, right? Is that female titan not Historia? Why would she be alive if she was getting beaten by Grisha, who ostensibly ate the whole family other than Reiss? Maybe I'm not understanding those fragmented flashbacks correctly. If you look at the female titan's shoulder, there's a chunk missing from it.  I'm guessing Grisha ran in and just took a bite out of her to gain her titan powers. Whoever she is. I'm pretty sure it's the dark haired lady at the fore of the panel showing the family, since the other girl has bangs and the female titan doesn't. The female titan's hair is light colored, but Eren's hair is different when he changes into a titan later in the chapter, so maybe hair transformation is part of the package. The flashback panels are chronological so there's no way it's a scene from a different time with Historia or something.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:35
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Flying Squirrel posted:God drat Mikasa titan would gently caress some poo poo up, love the little Armin titan though Armin's the one with the giant head.
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Oct 11, 2014 21:03
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Wii Spawn Camper posted:If you look at the female titan's shoulder, there's a chunk missing from it. I don't see how he'd pull off something like that. He had to be a shifter beforehand.
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Oct 11, 2014 21:08
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my dad posted:We already know they all are. Whats the image from?
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Oct 11, 2014 21:10
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Red Suit posted:Whats the image from? It's one of Isayama's chapter preview jokes.
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Oct 11, 2014 21:13
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So... This chapter ends in the basement under the chapel. What are the chances that Grisha's basement contains something similar? If Eren remembered all of these things because of the location combined with having the memories of the shifter he ate (and presumably the memories of the shifter that shifter ate, since he definitely had some of Frieda's memories in the chapter with the titan tests) in some corner of his mind, perhaps Grisha was banking on a similar sort of memory trigger when he sees the basement.Nelson Mandingo posted:That really is the burning question out of this, why would Grisha give up the coordinate? If it really is mind control you would think he could influence enough soldiers on his side to take over a district or something. There must be a reason he gave the coordinate to Eren. I doubt it's ideology alone. There must be something Eren can physically do with it. All but one of the Titan-shifters shown so far have been pretty young. If you think about it every faction presented so far wants the coordinate for their goals at domination. Reiner even said that Eren is the worst person in the world to have it. It's probably not a "He doesn't know how to use it properly and will cause a lot of collateral damage" but a "He will royally ruin everyone's plans if he learns how to use it." Eren is probably the unique character out of everyone in the story because in terms of ideals he would probably reject every faction in the story and use it for liberation. I feel pretty confident saying that Grisha didn't intend to give it to Eren from the beginning, he would have had time to write a letter or else leave some sort of guidance instead of just going "Hey son, here's an incredible superpower that I'm not going to explain, now you need to do this super important thing that will potentially affect all of humanity within the walls, by the way you're not going to remember any of this, okay I'll need you to kill me now." Whatever he was trying to do, it went horribly off-plan, and I think giving it to Eren was his last resort. One possible explanation is that Rod saw him and then got away so his cover was blown and he had to hide the ability somewhere because he knew he would be hunted down and it would all be over. It seems like too clumsy of a mistake though, I don't think we can guess his reasoning until we know more about his motivations and his goals. And I think Eren's response to when Grisha asked him why he wanted to go outside the walls may have been why he chose him, but then again I doubt he had many options to choose from since it came to this. Nelson Mandingo posted:What interests me going forward is Mikasa's inevitable encounter with Kenny. She is devoted to Eren out of personal feelings, but also because he's the only family she has left. Now that he's going to end up being related to her, I wonder if she's at risk at defecting? She's already built up a relationship with Eren, I think she would still consider him more family than some serial killer who randomly popped up and happens to have a blood relation.
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Oct 11, 2014 21:15
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I wonder, if Grisha knew he was going to be eaten or was planning on letting himself die, why didn't he say "our memories will teach you what you need to know"? He must have known Eren would gain his memories too.
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Oct 11, 2014 21:32
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Guys some of this speculation is seriously overcomplicated Like, the titan in that flashback could only have been Frieda - she previously displayed titan abilities, it shows her recognizing Grisha's intent/attack, Eren has her memories, Historia isn't even in that scene. Jackard fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Oct 11, 2014 |
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Oct 11, 2014 21:32
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Terper posted:It is quite likely, yes. Rod will probably want her to gobble up Eren. So Connie's a shifter too? 
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Oct 12, 2014 00:35
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The two nameless guys in the background do look awfully Titan-y...
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Oct 12, 2014 00:45
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I think I liked this manga better when it was about the gruesome horror of an impossible war against Titans than when it became about flesh mecha.
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Oct 12, 2014 02:19
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So you liked the first like, 10% of it then
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Oct 12, 2014 02:53
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Cheesy grimdarkness entices you with hopeless scenario
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Oct 12, 2014 03:11
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Captain Invictus posted:So you liked the first like, 10% of it then I don't think you can deny that it's lost much of its gravitas. Berserk at least managed to hold onto it for most of the manga's run.
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Oct 12, 2014 03:16
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