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Phantasium posted:What resources? You can straight up pause the game and quit out of fights if you run into enemies you want to run past. One of the robot that summons other robots blocks up the entire small narrow path. I don't know if I can actually squeeze through it because I've tried before resorting to burning a TP gainer.
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Oct 14, 2014 18:13
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Tae posted:One of the robot that summons other robots blocks up the entire small narrow path. I don't know if I can actually squeeze through it because I've tried before resorting to burning a TP gainer. Check the datalog for the Boxed Phalanx and make sure you know its weakness is lightning. Then get two RAVs who can cast that and go COM-RAV-RAV or SAB-RAV-RAV and stagger it before it does too much. Using a SEN and trying to out-last it doesn't really work because it just buffs and calls more dudes.
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Oct 14, 2014 18:38
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Tae posted:So I'm getting wiped constantly in Gran Pulse (chapter 10 or so). I don't mean King Behemoths because that felt like endgame poo poo, but the robot groups you have to fight in the caves. Like, I literally can't win unless I summon a Eidolin and I'm just out of supplies for that as well. What am I doing wrong, I'm using Sentinels but even they get destroyed pretty fast. I ran into this problem too the box phalanx are assholes. Run COM/RAV/RAV and stagger the main bot before it can buff up the other ones. But christ gently caress those things in general, I nearly got stuck in the mines when I was dying to the eidolin battle constantly and the first two mob packs behind the save point was a rust pudding and a box phalanx gang. So nothing really practical to grind on either. As soon as I rode atomos and got to the next zone I was sorta getting my rear end beat. Leading me to backtrack all the way back to gran pulse and work on some missions  .
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Oct 14, 2014 18:53
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Leper Residue posted:I had no idea the Atelier games had time limits either. Why are these a thing?
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Oct 14, 2014 18:56
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Leper Residue posted:I had no idea the Atelier games had time limits either. Why are these a thing? Because having to balance your decisions with the time they take is fun for certain types ofpeople and the game is designed around the idea of having to decide how to use your time. Both LR and Atelier don't have particularly hard time limits. (LR's in particular is borderline nonexistent.) If a time limit existing stresses you out too much there isn't much you can do, but seriously, those time limits are insanely forgiving for the most part.
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Oct 14, 2014 19:07
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I'm generally not a fan of them myself, just because they make me feel pressured to play efficiently and I stress out, even if I know they're forgiving. It's the reason I still vastly prefer Fallout 2 to Fallout 1 and I just couldn't get into the Atelier games. If you put a time limit on something, I feel like I'm being tested or challenged - which is fine for a single fight. But not for an entire game.
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Oct 14, 2014 19:42
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Bregor posted:Check the datalog for the Boxed Phalanx and make sure you know its weakness is lightning. Then get two RAVs who can cast that and go COM-RAV-RAV or SAB-RAV-RAV and stagger it before it does too much. Using a SEN and trying to out-last it doesn't really work because it just buffs and calls more dudes. Also, did you upgrade your weapons? Oh, and can you wear resist accessories (not sure if they are worth upgrading)?
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Oct 14, 2014 20:02
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bloodychill posted:I'm generally not a fan of them myself, just because they make me feel pressured to play efficiently and I stress out, even if I know they're forgiving. It's the reason I still vastly prefer Fallout 2 to Fallout 1 and I just couldn't get into the Atelier games. If you put a time limit on something, I feel like I'm being tested or challenged - which is fine for a single fight. But not for an entire game. You could still have water sent to the vault in fallout 1 and still have plenty of time to destroy the military base before they found the vault. Or you could go to the military base right from the beginning and stop it right away and have forever to fix the vault. In fallout 2 it was about going right to the enclave base to get the power armor asap.
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Oct 14, 2014 20:11
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Schwartzcough posted:Ugh, seriously, do not do this. Any guide saying you HAVE to do all this stuff on X day is lying. If you follow a guide, it'll probably have you finish everything in a few days with a ton of time left over. It doesn't say I have to stuff on day X, but it is designed to have me finished with all the main quest and a good chunk of side quest by the end of day 4.
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Oct 14, 2014 21:26
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mateo360 posted:It doesn't say I have to stuff on day X, but it is designed to have me finished with all the main quest and a good chunk of side quest by the end of day 4. Nah, some bosses (Most notably Snow) get power boosts as time goes on. Snow's fight just gets better the longer you put it off.
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Oct 14, 2014 21:31
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mateo360 posted:It doesn't say I have to stuff on day X, but it is designed to have me finished with all the main quest and a good chunk of side quest by the end of day 4. And my point is why would you restart over that? The game gives you 13 days to do what the guide would have you finish in 4. There are no trophies for getting everything done early.
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Oct 14, 2014 21:32
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Schwartzcough posted:And my point is why would you restart over that? The game gives you 13 days to do what the guide would have you finish in 4. There are no trophies for getting everything done early. Because I didn't realize it ended at day 4 until I looked it up about an hour ago.
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Oct 14, 2014 22:05
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Dragonatrix posted:Sab/Rav/Rav is better than Com. Gets the chain boost benefits of 3 ravagers, but also the slowdown benefit of a commando and makes the rest of the fight go faster too. I think this is probably the most important thing to know about that game, to be honest. The only reason I ever used Com/Rav/Rav was when there were multiple enemies and I wanted them all to attack a single staggered one.
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Oct 14, 2014 22:18
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mateo360 posted:It doesn't say I have to stuff on day X, but it is designed to have me finished with all the main quest and a good chunk of side quest by the end of day 4. You have 13 days to do content. Finishing by day 4 is insanely excessive.
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Oct 14, 2014 22:22
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Tenzarin posted:You could still have water sent to the vault in fallout 1 and still have plenty of time to destroy the military base before they found the vault. Or you could go to the military base right from the beginning and stop it right away and have forever to fix the vault. In fallout 2 it was about going right to the enclave base to get the power armor asap. I know. I know. It's not that you don't have enough time (given the water thing), it's just the timer hanging over me that causes anxiety. It's really my problem, not the game's. Though, to be fair with Fallout 1, if you somehow don't know about or for whatever reason can't send the water, the time limit can be somewhat close given general exploration and dicking around.
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Oct 14, 2014 22:47
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bloodychill posted:I know. I know. It's not that you don't have enough time (given the water thing), it's just the timer hanging over me that causes anxiety. It's really my problem, not the game's. Though, to be fair with Fallout 1, if you somehow don't know about or for whatever reason can't send the water, the time limit can be somewhat close given general exploration and dicking around. Time limits are a bad idea because they simply turn off too many paying customers for this exact reason.
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Oct 14, 2014 22:51
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COM gets Launch, though, which is very useful for when the enemy is actually staggered. You should still use SAB otherwise, of course.
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Oct 14, 2014 22:56
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Xavier434 posted:Time limits are a bad idea because they simply turn off too many paying customers for this exact reason. Eh. The argument of "don't have a thing because someone might not like it" isn't really worthwhile except from a sheer "sell to the absolute maximum number of people" standpoint, which is rarely the same as being a good game. You could just as easily argue that Dark Souls is a bad idea because the high difficultly can turn off paying customers.
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Oct 14, 2014 22:59
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Xavier434 posted:Time limits are a bad idea because they simply turn off too many paying customers for this exact reason. Majoras mask is my least favorite Zelda and I quit on ff13-3 despite enjoying the hell out of it somewhere during the find the password mission because even knowing I could break the timer I didn't like it so I feel your pain. I think the silliest was Valkyrie Profile or whatever the se game was called where even though objectively I knew I had gobs of time to do stuff and it reset each chapter I bailed.
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Oct 14, 2014 23:04
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I'm more curious to see who actually wants time limits in games. It seems kind of unnecessary unless you're trying to do something unique with the concept, and even then the well-respected games that have time limits seem to be well-regarded despite their time limits rather than because of them. In particular, I hear praise of LR's combat and embracing the goofiness of the FF13 trilogy, while whenever the time system comes up the best I hear about it is that it's so easy to cheese that it may as well not be there. Doesn't sound like the game would really change in any way without it, so what's the point of having it?
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Oct 14, 2014 23:08
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ImpAtom posted:Eh. The argument of "don't have a thing because someone might not like it" isn't really worthwhile except from a sheer "sell to the absolute maximum number of people" standpoint, which is rarely the same as being a good game. You could just as easily argue that Dark Souls is a bad idea because the high difficultly can turn off paying customers. Yeah, I'm not going to knock the concept as a whole. Things like time-limits and the rogue-like elements that are used in a lot of games these days can make things a lot more intense in a good way and even if it alienates some players, they can work as a whole. The XCOM games (and remake) and Civilization games are ones where I don't really mind the timer because it gives me a solid target and keeps me on task, coming up with strategies that fit given the limit in turns. The anxiety is less intense because I can figure out after a pretty short time whether or not I completely mucked things up. I think what turns me off of LR, FO1, and Atelier (or even that one Breath of Fire game that had a turn limit) is that the games are much longer so even if there is plenty of time to do almost everything, I have this (perhaps irrational) fear that I'm not going to realize I hosed up the game until hour 30 or 40.
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Oct 14, 2014 23:10
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Time limits are good, its not like "Hang on bad guy don't destroy the world yet!". Just chill in your badass lair we will show up so overly powerful from killing the optional bosses killing you will be just a formality!
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Oct 14, 2014 23:11
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It'd be weird to play Lightning Returns without a time limit. Yeah they were probably too generous with it but I thought it was fun managing your time to get a bunch of poo poo done every day I never actually beat the game though because I think I had like everything done by day 7 and wasn't sure what to do for the remaining days. I know you can skip time at inns or whatever but I was worried I might be underleveled if I skipped like 5 days
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Oct 14, 2014 23:18
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Help Im Alive posted:It'd be weird to play Lightning Returns without a time limit. Yeah they were probably too generous with it but I thought it was fun managing your time to get a bunch of poo poo done every day It's worth remembering that Lightning Returns doesn't have levels. If you ran out of things to do you can't really be underleveled. bloodychill posted:I think what turns me off of LR, FO1, and Atelier (or even that one Breath of Fire game that had a turn limit) is that the games are much longer so even if there is plenty of time to do almost everything, I have this (perhaps irrational) fear that I'm not going to realize I hosed up the game until hour 30 or 40. Nah, I think that's understandable. The concept of "oh poo poo, this is a bad run" hurts a lot more in an RPG, although in the case of each of those games they're also specifically designed to be replayed. I think it depends on if you view RPGs as one-and-done or not and in general just person-to-person. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 23:21
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Mega64 posted:I'm more curious to see who actually wants time limits in games. It seems kind of unnecessary unless you're trying to do something unique with the concept, and even then the well-respected games that have time limits seem to be well-regarded despite their time limits rather than because of them. In particular, I hear praise of LR's combat and embracing the goofiness of the FF13 trilogy, while whenever the time system comes up the best I hear about it is that it's so easy to cheese that it may as well not be there. Doesn't sound like the game would really change in any way without it, so what's the point of having it? Well, it sort of makes sense in a game like LR with a day/night cycle combined with the whole premise of "the world is about to end; hurry up and save souls." If you took out the time mechanic, how would you "reach the end"? Have some incredibly contrived situation where the world is only ending when you decide to go into the final dungeon? I mean, I guess that'd work, but it feels more organic to have an actual Doomsday Deadline. bloodychill posted:I think what turns me off of LR, FO1, and Atelier (or even that one Breath of Fire game that had a turn limit) is that the games are much longer so even if there is plenty of time to do almost everything, I have this (perhaps irrational) fear that I'm not going to realize I hosed up the game until hour 30 or 40. I actually felt the same way about oldschool Resident Evil games- that I would run out of ammo or health 8 hours in and just be boned.
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Oct 14, 2014 23:24
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Mega64 posted:I'm more curious to see who actually wants time limits in games. It seems kind of unnecessary unless you're trying to do something unique with the concept, and even then the well-respected games that have time limits seem to be well-regarded despite their time limits rather than because of them. In particular, I hear praise of LR's combat and embracing the goofiness of the FF13 trilogy, while whenever the time system comes up the best I hear about it is that it's so easy to cheese that it may as well not be there. Doesn't sound like the game would really change in any way without it, so what's the point of having it? It depends on the game but yes, I like time limits. They add tension and a possibility to failure that isn't just "you succeed or you die." A well-designed time limit can make you feel mistakes a lot more harshly than a mere death can. It doesn't matter if you're talking about Splatterhouse's "too slow and Jennifer gets eaten by a Boreworm" or Dead Rising's "Do I have enough time to save these people" or even something as simple as Lightning Return's "oh poo poo, I died, there is an hour I can't get back," it makes it feel more significant to me. Even in Spelunky, the fact that I have a short period of time to finish the level before the ghost shows up means I can't afford to dilly-dally or just sit there farming gambling games until I have infinite money. And something like, say, Persona 3 or 4 would lose a lot of weight if it didn't have a time limit, as would Majora's Mask and its repeating day concept. The linear passage of time towards a set date is something that absolutely works in a game setting and can add real weight and consequence to decisions. The fact that people go "I can't handle (x)" doesn't make it bad. Resource conservation, be it ammo, health, time or some other factor adds an interesting element to a game. It does lead to potentially unwinnable situations but almost every game I can think of with hard limits also has something in place to deal with that. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 23:27
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Nope, can't stagger the robo in time even with stagger plus weapons. And you can't avoid one because he rakes up the entire narrow bridge.
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Oct 14, 2014 23:31
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Mega64 posted:I'm more curious to see who actually wants time limits in games. It seems kind of unnecessary unless you're trying to do something unique with the concept, and even then the well-respected games that have time limits seem to be well-regarded despite their time limits rather than because of them. In particular, I hear praise of LR's combat and embracing the goofiness of the FF13 trilogy, while whenever the time system comes up the best I hear about it is that it's so easy to cheese that it may as well not be there. Doesn't sound like the game would really change in any way without it, so what's the point of having it? At the same time, they baked in some features that alleviate the pressure. The fact that you get sent back to the dawn of the first day just as if you played the song of time if you let the clock run out, the dungeons designs allowing you to skip the first half once you got the dungeon item and all of it once you beat the boss. There's also the bank, but I question whether losing all your rupees when you go back in time is necessary to the atmosphere of the game, so I'm not going to count that. I like time limits, but only if they're well thought out, like I think Majora's Mask was.
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Oct 14, 2014 23:40
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Time limits suck if it means you'll be missing missions and sidequests left and right if you're not careful, which sort of happened in my case with LR. That's when I decided "screw it" and went straight to the final day. Majora's Mask's time limit is harmless since you can reset it at any point and you won't be screwing yourself over without having a guide next to you from beginning to the end.
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Oct 14, 2014 23:58
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Imagine if something like Skyrim had a time limit. That's a game I actually can't play because it's way too open-ended. I need some railroading or impetus to get back on track.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:00
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Mega64 posted:I'm more curious to see who actually wants time limits in games. It seems kind of unnecessary unless you're trying to do something unique with the concept, and even then the well-respected games that have time limits seem to be well-regarded despite their time limits rather than because of them. In particular, I hear praise of LR's combat and embracing the goofiness of the FF13 trilogy, while whenever the time system comes up the best I hear about it is that it's so easy to cheese that it may as well not be there. Doesn't sound like the game would really change in any way without it, so what's the point of having it? You only hear about how easy it is to cheese the time limit because the only way it ever comes up is when someone asks "should I be scared of this timer". To the people who just went ahead and felt it out themselves, it actually makes a ton of sense - the game is totally designed around it and would be worse (or very different) without it. It supports the story, doles out all the content, encourages better play, encourages multiple playthroughs, and so on.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:06
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Krad posted:Time limits suck if it means you'll be missing missions and sidequests left and right if you're not careful, which sort of happened in my case with LR. That's when I decided "screw it" and went straight to the final day. LR has like 2 missable sidequests and in each case they are missable because someone told you to go to a place at a certain time and you didn't. You absolutely were not missing them left and right. At worst you can do them the next day.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:06
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It was a combination of "oops, you didn't meet this person back when you activated this sidequest at the beginning of the game and didn't even know what you were doing" and "oops, it's too late to start this sidequest at this point in the game, sorry." Having missable quests in general sucks, doubly so if your game revolves around them.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:19
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Krad posted:It was a combination of "oops, you didn't meet this person back when you activated this sidequest at the beginning of the game and didn't even know what you were doing" and "oops, it's too late to start this sidequest at this point in the game, sorry." Well, running out of time is supposed to be an actual thing. You're not missing the sideequest, you ran out of time to do it. Aside from that the only quest I can think of which fits you mark is the Blue Mage Garb quest where the guys tell you to come back at noon the next day. It doesn't really feel like a case where that is 'tricking' the player because they tell you straight up what to do and when. It absolutely is not a "you need a guide to understand this" thing.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:24
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ImpAtom posted:Well, running out of time is supposed to be an actual thing. You're not missing the sideequest, you ran out of time to do it. I think he could be talking about the storytime dude or the no tears girl that you have to come back and talk to multiple days.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:34
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Tae posted:Nope, can't stagger the robo in time even with stagger plus weapons. And you can't avoid one because he rakes up the entire narrow bridge. Have you been skipping all the encounters on Gran Pulse thus far? You sound very underleveled, if a SEN with protect can't even survive.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:38
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I presume he's talking about the Juggernaut, who is actually pretty tough for that point in the game. Abuse status effects which will force it to heal them. It's pretty tough to 5-star that fight at that point unless you're seriously overgrinding.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:46
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Systematic System posted:Have you been skipping all the encounters on Gran Pulse thus far? You sound very underleveled, if a SEN with protect can't even survive. I can't fight most encounters in the open plains of Gran Pulse. I can manage against flans and stuff, but the phalanax that summons other robo dudes deal way too much damage and are too tough to kill within 3 paradigm shifts. The only way I beat those encounters is using Eidolen, but I'm out of TP juice. Does the game revert back to the previous 10 chapters and Gran Pulse is the exception in terms of difficulty? Because I'm at a point where I have to avoid fights. My main characters are a few stats in their section where they're getting +15 per node, as a reference.
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Oct 15, 2014 00:51
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Tae posted:I can't fight most encounters in the open plains of Gran Pulse. I can manage against flans and stuff, but the phalanax that summons other robo dudes deal way too much damage and are too tough to kill within 3 paradigm shifts. The only way I beat those encounters is using Eidolen, but I'm out of TP juice. Go to the entrance of the mines. Take the path off to the left, the one that dead ends. You can avoid most of the packs, especially the ones with bombs. In the back will be a pack of five robots. Now make a party of Sazh/Fang/Light (make sure Sazh is your leader) and set up a paradigm of SYN/COM/COM. When the battle starts, just have Sazh cast Haste and Enthunder on the commandos, and then sit back and watch as they demolish everything. Now run forward and trigger the juggernaut fight. Immediately escape out of it, and the pack of five robots will have respawned. The fight gives you about 4000 CP, as well as drops that sell for a decent chunk of change. I suggest doing this until all your characters have the ATB segment and accessory slots from their crystariums, which shouldn't take more than half an hour.
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Oct 15, 2014 01:04
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Tae posted:I can't fight most encounters in the open plains of Gran Pulse. I can manage against flans and stuff, but the phalanax that summons other robo dudes deal way too much damage and are too tough to kill within 3 paradigm shifts. The only way I beat those encounters is using Eidolen, but I'm out of TP juice. Well, there is variable difficulty on Gran Pulse: you aren't really intended to fight King Behemoths or the wyverns immediately and win. But if you're at a reasonable level, a MED and a SEN should be effectively immortal. Try backtracking a bit, before the Phalanx on the bridge, and go down the side path with the bombs and hoplites: they're quite easy, and drop a fair amount of CP. If you do up and down that path perhaps 2 or maybe 3 times, you should definitely be leveled enough for the Phalanx. If you can't kill the mobs on the side path, you should back out and return to the Steppe and kill flans/dogs for a bit.
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Oct 15, 2014 01:05
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