Keven. Just. Keven posted:Wow... Look how wrong you are. Happy to help. A ringing endorsement by ersatz-Gowby.
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Oct 23, 2014 15:11
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Transient People posted:The convertible tradeoff that is a total disaster is the other one, defensive to offensive. Offensive to defensive tends to be much less of a problem. Neither sounds particularly good to me since both end up resulting in some unkillable shithead doing too much damage to be negligible rendering playing against a sufficiently fed one completely hopeless it is the experience of playing against a sufficiently farmed Nasus, he deletes people and is functionally impossible to kill which renders the whole game a pile of annoying. gently caress both of these dichotomies, build one or the other, getting both intrinsically is poo poo design. mind you if anyone has any advice what to do against a fed nasus or rammus I'd love to hear it because it feels like if either one gets enough gold through their veins the game is completely over and it's all just ticking to the inevitable.
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Oct 23, 2014 15:12
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Riven's shield now never makes her a full blown supertank like Ryze. One Thresh hook in a teamfight lategame is enough to do for Riven. You can't really say that about Ryze or Nasus. (I don't think Nasus is broken either, he's easily enough shut down). Also, her win conditions aren't just a game timer. It's weird that this thread can get mad about stat conversion and not be mad about way stupider mechanics on fan favourite champions, like Fiora becoming untargetable. At least Fiora is guaranteed to shoot her load at 40 minutes. Disinterested fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Oct 23, 2014 |
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Oct 23, 2014 15:14
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Nasus is one of the few champs I think is just flat bad design. He's not fun or interesting to verse.
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Oct 23, 2014 15:27
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Nasus was okay back in the days of yore when most toplaners had a ton of tools to deal with his poo poo and he couldn't just teleport to turret to refuel constantly. Now that Gnar exists I don't fear him at all but it's still annoying when you go against a good one that knows when he has to just afk farm with spirit fire. The way I read the Riven post is that she's fine now that her numbers are bad so you have to be a savant or punish a multitude of stupid mistakes to enter the Riven Zone. When Riot inevitably nerfs every other toplane champ so that it's Riven's turn to be viable or god help us, dominant, then she will be a smothering presence once again. When her numbers are good her kit dictates that she's just nearly imposible to trade with at all, and one tiny fuckup can lead to you getting repeatedly towerdove and going 0/6 and being unable to do anything about it if the jungler doesn't immediately rectify the situation.
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Oct 23, 2014 15:40
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Lovechop posted:Play incredibly loving safe until 6 and then blow his dumb head off with one combo + ignite Also, I'm not sure if they changed/fixed this, but at some point Riposte would work on ticks of poison - as in, if he hit you with an AA, you got poisoned, and then you Riposted, the retaliation damage would proc when next the poison ticked. Yes, I'm sure about this and it wasn't just the sometimes very elastic timing between the attack appearing to hit and it actually hitting. So, you know, if this still works, you should never miss a riposte against Teemo again.
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Oct 23, 2014 15:42
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Riven attracts the worst kind of people and is a terribly designed champion for many reasons, but the primary one is that she is manaless. As it turns out, manaless champions are and always have been incredibly stupid, but Riot continues to think they are a good idea and they can totally balance them.
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Oct 23, 2014 16:08
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Disinterested posted:It's weird that this thread can get mad about stat conversion and not be mad about way stupider mechanics on fan favourite champions, like Fiora becoming untargetable. At least Fiora is guaranteed to shoot her load at 40 minutes. If it's worth anything to you, I hate that bullshit as well. It's incredibly dumb that when laning against her, victory is usually predicated on who presses R first. I'm of the opinion if the counterplay to *ability* is killing her before she can do it, the ability is badly designed.
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Oct 23, 2014 16:11
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K8.0 posted:Riven being broken is 100% a function of her having the worst designed kit in the game. She's not a champion that can really be outplayed because she's loaded with free mobility and AOE CC, and she has exponential defensive scaling off the same two stats that give her exponential offensive scaling. Even if she was the only top lane champion in the game, her design would still be god loving awful because she snowballs in the stupidest way possible. In her heyday all of Riven's matchups were entirely play dependent (with Riven at a slight disadvantage), if you lost lane it was straight up because you played worse. Even when she got ahead, she wasn't a metagame warping character like contemporary popular picks Shen or Singed. To top it all off she's a poor teamfighter who can be reliably CC locked and burst down by a competent team. Then they nerfed her like 3 times. I'd rather face a pre-nerf Riven in lane than any other "OP" character at their peak.
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Oct 23, 2014 16:13
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OtherworldlyInvader posted:In her heyday all of Riven's matchups were entirely play dependent (with Riven at a slight disadvantage), if you lost lane it was straight up because you played worse. Even when she got ahead, she wasn't a metagame warping character like contemporary popular picks Shen or Singed. To top it all off she's a poor teamfighter who can be reliably CC locked and burst down by a competent team. Then they nerfed her like 3 times. I'd rather face a pre-nerf Riven in lane than any other "OP" character at their peak. She was powerful in large part for similar reasons Urgot used to be a decent bot laner before being gutted; if there's someone on the team to set up for her, an amumu, malph, or orianna ult, for example, she had the AOE damage and follow-up CC to demolish anyone who was caught. Just like how Urgot was ridiculously strong with a Taric or Leona because getting guaranteed canisters allowed him to dominate.
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Oct 23, 2014 16:17
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Agreed, riven was never a terror in solo queue like shen or singed. Lmao.
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Oct 23, 2014 16:41
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a medical mystery posted:She was powerful in large part for similar reasons Urgot used to be a decent bot laner before being gutted; if there's someone on the team to set up for her, an amumu, malph, or orianna ult, for example, she had the AOE damage and follow-up CC to demolish anyone who was caught. Just like how Urgot was ridiculously strong with a Taric or Leona because getting guaranteed canisters allowed him to dominate. If she ever got buffed to her old levels in the current meta she would rocket instantly to first pick/ban in all forms of play, or close.
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Oct 23, 2014 16:44
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Anyone on the east cost experience higher ping then usual recently? getting as high as 210 just about unplayable
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Oct 23, 2014 16:50
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chumbler posted:Riven attracts the worst kind of people and is a terribly designed champion for many reasons, but the primary one is that she is manaless. As it turns out, manaless champions are and always have been incredibly stupid, but Riot continues to think they are a good idea and they can totally balance them. This is really dumb and wrong. Riven is extremely well designed because everything she does is 100% skill-based. She requires incredible timing and positioning to do well, and without those she essentially makes the game a 4v5. Mana, and resource systems in general other than energy, don't mean jack poo poo past laning and even then aren't a big deal early for most characters. Riven with mana wouldn't work because of how spammy she absolutely has to be to not die.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:06
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Disinterested posted:If she ever got buffed to her old levels in the current meta she would rocket instantly to first pick/ban in all forms of play, or close. Well, yeah. Every other top laner has been gutted.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:08
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Real talk, anybody who thinks peak Riven was bullshit needs to take a trip down memory lane to peak Darius and then get quiet. You want a bullshit champion, THAT was a bullshit champion. The only room for outplays was making him whiff Q and then going so far all in your abilities would refuse to recharge for ten minutes. It was not a fun game to play at all, especially since the full refresh of Guillotine made the gravy train of kills eternal and unbreakable without very good ganking. Riven's got absolutely nothing on that poo poo. EDIT: Or Peak Elise, who literally didn't let you play, but she was bullshit even as an ADC at her peak. Singling her out for toplane is hardly fair game.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:11
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Methanar posted:Well, yeah. Every other top laner has been gutted. Bring back thunderdome
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Oct 23, 2014 17:16
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Darius was only a problem because of his passive basically giving him 1.5 ad scaling on auto attacks. 1/3 of which did magic damage.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:16
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Methanar posted:Darius was only a problem because of his passive basically giving him 1.5 ad scaling on auto attacks. 1/3 of which did magic damage. That and the guillotine refresh, since it meant he could always fight you and you couldn't really fight back. Otherwise yeah, he was (mostly) reasonable. Just unfun to play against.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:19
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from what I understand, this game.. is for children? And the developer (Infinity Ward) is attempting to broaden the appeal by overhauling all of the art assets? Someone help me eout here.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:20
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Transient People posted:That and the guillotine refresh, since it meant he could always fight you and you couldn't really fight back. Otherwise yeah, he was (mostly) reasonable. Just unfun to play against. Not as unfun as alistar and maokai and top gragas and mundo
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Oct 23, 2014 17:20
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I seriously don't get all the manbaby whining about Riven, her base hp regen is absolute garbage so if she loses any trade ever she progessively gets put into a worse and worse position until she builds that expensive rear end Hydra. Also baiting out her Qs or Riven using her Qs to get to you will give you a perfectly ample time to wreck her poo poo, and if you are playing a champion that can build a lot of armor you are going to force her to buy early Last Whisper or do no damage at all. She has a lot of problems but can win any lane in skillful hands, however actually doing that is difficult even in the hands of BoxBox, BestRivenNA, etc. edit: Also agreeing with Zen, loving dumpster Maokai toplane please, poo poo's annoying and unfun as hell. Alistar is too but just unfun and not also powerful.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:21
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Riven was annoying as gently caress, like, she was absolutely dreadful to play against and she could come ahead of basically any matchup with some lifesteal and by animation cancelling your AA, she was strong level 1, level 3 and level 6+, now she's only strong from 6 onwards. The biggest nerf to her was BT getting reworked as she just loved that lifesteal and massive AD, the nerf to her shield was also big, but necessary since it made her super safe in some matchups she shouldn't be safe in. She is still strong, but now she's strong late instead of early which means there's a window to shut her down that was very small before.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:22
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THE PENETRATOR posted:from what I understand, this game.. is for children? And the developer (Infinity Ward) is attempting to broaden the appeal by overhauling all of the art assets? Someone help me eout here. Yes and yes.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:22
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fnox posted:Riven was annoying as gently caress, like, she was absolutely dreadful to play against and she could come ahead of basically any matchup with some lifesteal and by animation cancelling your AA, she was strong level 1, level 3 and level 6+, now she's only strong from 6 onwards. The biggest nerf to her was BT getting reworked as she just loved that lifesteal and massive AD, the nerf to her shield was also big, but necessary since it made her super safe in some matchups she shouldn't be safe in. She's awful late game against competence
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Oct 23, 2014 17:24
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Methanar posted:Yes and yes. Why would I play this game over Smite?
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Oct 23, 2014 17:30
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ZenVulgarity posted:She's awful late game against competence It more or less depends on the comp but her huge scaling means that once she has some AD to get going, so long as she doesn't get caught first, she can basically play as an AD caster just dancing in and out of the fight to clean and pop squishies. Problem with that is that there's a lot of meta champions that do that now, most of them aren't top laners though. She also snowballs super hard if she starts catching people alone.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:31
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THE PENETRATOR posted:Why would I play this game over Smite? It has more Champs I guess? Although Smite has Tyr and really you should just play him 100% of the time
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Oct 23, 2014 17:42
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THE PENETRATOR posted:Why would I play this game over Smite? Maybe you get motion sickness from 3D rendering
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Oct 23, 2014 17:43
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THE PENETRATOR posted:Why would I play this game over Smite? You shouldn't.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:48
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 That Ziggs.  I assume it's someone being boosted because I don't understand someone can be gold and get destroyed by a unranked Xerath.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:49
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THE PENETRATOR posted:Why would I play this game over Smite? Do all your friends play League?
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Oct 23, 2014 17:51
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There are a whole mess of champs who beat Riven early and another set that out scales her hard late. Her numbers are bad and her total lack of hp regen makes laning a huge chore against anyone with poke. Her play rate would probably be way lower if she wasn't so much fun to play. And I would take Riven stomping around top trying to throw down every time you come into lane over tanky teleporting poo poo bag top meta any day of the week. Comparing peak Riven to peak Darius or peak Irelia or god forbid peak proxy Singed is a joke.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:52
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idk I've never had a problem with Riven, but then again I never play top lane, but I do play Rammus, who basically has a kit designed to poo poo on squishy melee ad mobile champions like Riven. I'm fairly convinced Rammus's winrate gets a ~2-3% boost any time Kha'Zix, Zed, and Riven are popular.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:55
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TheLoquid posted:And I would take Riven stomping around top trying to throw down every time you come into lane over tanky teleporting poo poo bag top meta any day of the week. 100%. Top lane should be about beating the other dude into the ground, and then standing in front of the wave saying "look at all this CS you can't have" for the next however long
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Oct 23, 2014 17:57
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NinjaC posted:Anyone on the east cost experience higher ping then usual recently? getting as high as 210 just about unplayable Mine's been getting higher too.
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Oct 23, 2014 18:01
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Actually, I do not want that
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Oct 23, 2014 18:02
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Peak Proxy-Singed was probably the most miserable toplane ever was. The best part of this Riven chat is no one really thinks she's OP now, it's all "pre-nerf riven, mah gawd". As someone who really hated pre-nerf riven, to me it was more than if you died once the lane was over and you were relegated to being farmed like a minion for the rest of it. "Too quick to snowball" is a genuine complaint about champions who hyperfocus on one or two stats, but most of the major offenders have been smacked down at this point.
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Oct 23, 2014 18:04
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Riven counters: Jax post 2 if he didn't start E. Irelia post phage/sheen. Ryze post 1 second into the game up until you lose. Maokai. Darius. Anyone you loving want. Rumble up until 50 minutes in when you can finally afford your 3rd item after all his harass. Renekton. Trundle. Gnar post 3. Riven advantage: Nasus unless you pushed to turret. Aatrox. ? Gnar lvl 1. Shen lvl 1.
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Oct 23, 2014 18:05
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Tired Moritz posted:
or it's a normal blind pick game that he didn't take serious and dicked around on a role/champion he never plays but no yeah he was 100% boosted yeah man (guess how many times he's played Ziggs in ranked)
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Oct 23, 2014 18:07
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