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Tir McDohl posted:The Goldberg episode of Monday Night War was fascinating, as someone who knew almost nothing about him except that he looked like Stone Cold sorta. Holy poo poo, had no idea that him losing the streak immediately led into the Fingerpoke of Doom. And Raw was having Foley win on the same god drat night? All so they could make NWO be the focal point of WCW again? Yeesh. WCW really was good at loving everything up. There's a lot of people here who get mad that these Monday Night War episodes are burying WCW. I don't agree. Vince didn't bury WCW, WCW buried WCW.
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Oct 23, 2014 07:54
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its not that people are upset that they're burying WCW, because WCW was a stupid company deserving of mockery at every point, its that so much of it is revisionist history/factually incorrect
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Oct 23, 2014 08:40
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I just wish they'd tell us how fans felt about WWF's cartoonish gimmicks vs the gritty realism of WCW. Been wondering about that for a while.
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Oct 23, 2014 08:50
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if only someone who was there at that point could tell us how they felt about insulting the fans intelligence
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Oct 23, 2014 09:22
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Cardboard Box posted:if only someone who was there at that point could tell us how they felt about insulting the fans intelligence I am wondering who the outsiders from wwe are and if the nwo changed wrestling.
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Oct 23, 2014 09:34
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Really enjoyed the Goldberg ep as I really never got his popularity, for such a limited wrestler. I always wondered about the length of his undefeated run as it seemed to increase weekly by an order of magnitude. Did they hand out all the streak signs to the crowd to ensure everyone had the same number?
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Oct 23, 2014 11:01
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Goldberg had insane physical charisma and was really strong. He had learned to do his few big moves really well. That is really all there is to him.
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Oct 23, 2014 12:01
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Every so often he'd show some extra spark but he couldn't really do the basic stuff to get a match going.
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Oct 23, 2014 12:37
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TheJoker138 posted:There's a lot of people here who get mad that these Monday Night War episodes are burying WCW. I don't agree. Vince didn't bury WCW, WCW buried WCW. Yeah it's not this. It's that the WWE is still revisionist even when they don't need to be. It's not enough that they won apparently, they have to somehow twist the tale in their favour. There's no shame in telling history as it was, but the WWE goes to great lengths to avoid telling it as it was. Meltzer's breakdown of Montreal and everything surrounding it is an infinitely more interesting story than whatever the Monday Night Wars decide to tell. WCW did a great job of burying themselves, but the WWE wants to frame themselves as the underdog who overcame adversity.
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Oct 23, 2014 12:38
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DrVenkman posted:WCW did a great job of burying themselves, but the WWE wants to frame themselves as the underdog who overcame adversity. Vince McMahon genuinely doesn't understand what an underdog is.
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Oct 23, 2014 12:57
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Snacksmaniac posted:Every so often he'd show some extra spark but he couldn't really do the basic stuff to get a match going. His basic stuff was the spear and jackhammer.  He was really easy to carry/lead in a match though.
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Oct 23, 2014 13:16
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From his entrance to the fact that they rarely ever let him speak to knowing you were about to see a short match full of power moves where a dude gets smashed - there wasn't much to Goldberg but there was still a lot to get hyped about each time he appeared. They basically covered his weaknesses as well as a promotion could have. Edit: That and 'Have a guy win a lot and be dominant and people will like him' is a formula they figured out with Goldberg that WWE parity booking will never really allow to happen again unless you are John Cena Orange Carlisle fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Oct 23, 2014 |
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Oct 23, 2014 14:04
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birdlaw posted:Vince McMahon genuinely doesn't understand what an underdog is. See: Cena, John
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Oct 23, 2014 14:19
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Kawalimus posted:What were they thinking with the Livewire idea? I remember it seemed like every episode I watched as a kid they were always getting pissy and snippy with the callers and questions. Maybe it didn't happen that often cause I'm going by distant memory but I want to say it did. What did they want people to call and ask them? Might as well have just scripted the whole thing. I mean, they probably honestly thought, with the Saturday morning time slot, that kids would call in and give them softball questions. They'd tested out the call-in format before, I think, on a taped Raw or something else (or maybe it was an early Livewire), with Lawler as the "guest". He had a little plunger button to hang up on calls after he insulted the caller. Lawler, since he'd been a Memphis-style heel in the WWF, was a natural at this, and completely controlled it. Then they had Ffaarrooqq, who was okay, but boring - because all he could do was stand there and spout the usual bad guy stuff, whereas Lawler could just go with stuff on the fly. I want to say the highlight of the show format came when Vince McMahon was the guest, and someone called up and insulted Vince for a few minutes non-stop. That, I think, was actually Paul Heyman. That Heyman got to stay on the phone as long as he did suggests it was a work, especially since they had the ECW "invasion" on Raw a little while later. Edit: The more I think about it, the more I want to say the whole thing is a Vince Russo idea.
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Oct 23, 2014 14:28
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Does anyone know what year that Livewire video is from? I'm guessing '96-'97 but Russo looks like he wandered into the studio from 1989.
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Oct 23, 2014 14:31
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I had a fun glitch this morning where an ad played before my video, but the "you can close this ad in X seconds" notice remained on the screen once the video started. "You can close In Your House 3 in 6829 seconds."
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Oct 23, 2014 14:41
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Does anyone know what year that Livewire video is from? I'm guessing '96-'97 but Russo looks like he wandered into the studio from 1989. The best part of Wrestling With Shadows is when Vince Russo, looking like the world's dorkiest mullet, wanders up to the Hart Foundation to tell them something and they completely ignore him.
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Oct 23, 2014 15:34
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You want fluff? Go eat a *beep*ing marshmallow!
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Oct 23, 2014 15:39
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Does anyone know what year that Livewire video is from? I'm guessing '96-'97 but Russo looks like he wandered into the studio from 1989. 96
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Oct 23, 2014 16:18
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birdlaw posted:The best part of Wrestling With Shadows is when Vince Russo, looking like the world's dorkiest mullet, wanders up to the Hart Foundation to tell them something and they completely ignore him. Too bad poor Owen had to deal with the comeuppance for that.
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Oct 23, 2014 16:24
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TheJoker138 posted:There's a lot of people here who get mad that these Monday Night War episodes are burying WCW. I don't agree. Vince didn't bury WCW, WCW buried WCW. Some people are mad because it's dull, repetitive and wrong/misleading about stuff.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:12
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Tgspectre posted:Really enjoyed the Goldberg ep as I really never got his popularity, for such a limited wrestler. I always wondered about the length of his undefeated run as it seemed to increase weekly by an order of magnitude. Did they hand out all the streak signs to the crowd to ensure everyone had the same number? I don't ever remember them just artificially increasing the streak. I remember being able to count his wins at one point at least, because they dude would wrestle on Nitro, Thunder and WCW Saturday Night and pick up 3 wins a week. Though according to his ProFightDB record, his televised streak was only 99-0 before losing to Nash, but that doesn't include house shows. It was when they tried to give Sid a winning streak, and the dude would go out there and powerbomb a half dozen cruiserweights in a match he wasn't even in, they'd count that as 10 more wins. Astro7x fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Oct 23, 2014 |
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Oct 23, 2014 17:21
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Astro7x posted:It was when they tried to give Sid a winning streak, and the dude would go out there and powerbomb a half dozen cruiserweights in a match he wasn't even in, they'd count that as 10 more wins. Ah yes, the crazy retarded Millennium Man winning streak. Sid would trip someone in the hallway, and somehow rack up 17 wins from that.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:37
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It was a comedy angle, it was supposed to be dumb.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:40
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MrBling posted:It was a comedy angle, it was supposed to be dumb. Didn't they even spell it "Millenium" the entire time? But then again, WCW...
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Oct 23, 2014 17:44
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God, I can't stand it when heels gloat and lie and make poo poo up. It's like they don't want me to cheer for them because they're assholes. That makes no loving sense.
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Oct 23, 2014 18:00
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They did start inflating Goldberg's streak at one point and Sid's run in 99 was hilarious
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Oct 23, 2014 18:08
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oatgan posted:They did start inflating Goldberg's streak at one point and Sid's run in 99 was hilarious I found a list for Goldberg's streak, and it has 167 matches for him. I think it only seems like they inflated the number because Goldberg had stretches where he would do no house shows, and then periods where he would have 6 house show matches in a week.
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Oct 23, 2014 18:13
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I'm pretty amazed at how many people don't get that Sid's streak was a comedy angle/delusional heel angle
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Oct 23, 2014 18:37
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LvK posted:I'm pretty amazed at how many people don't get that Sid's streak was a comedy angle/delusional heel angle I was really confused when the Death of WCW book brought that up as an example of stupid WCW booking.
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Oct 23, 2014 18:47
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Alain Post posted:I was really confused when the Death of WCW book brought that up as an example of stupid WCW booking. There are good and bad parts to that book. Like the section where they discuss Hogan's knee injury at Slamboree '99. They get to the point where Hogan is screaming in pain and had to have it scoped and suggest that it was a Hogan work.
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Oct 23, 2014 19:12
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Astro7x posted:I don't ever remember them just artificially increasing the streak. I remember being able to count his wins at one point at least, because they dude would wrestle on Nitro, Thunder and WCW Saturday Night and pick up 3 wins a week. Wow, so they made the streak legit. I never realised, I just assumed it was inflated. Never really got to watch WCW much, barely got to see WWF either, outside of Heat and the few PPVs shown on UK terrestrial. When I finally can afford cable turns out that WWE has turned to poo poo. Really enjoying watching through the AE on the Network, can finally experience the wrestling of my childhood, 15 years late.
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Oct 23, 2014 19:25
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Sid doing random poo poo and adding to his wins and then adding more on nights he didn't even wrestle was one of my favorite WCW things.LvK posted:I'm pretty amazed at how many people don't get that Sid's streak was a comedy angle/delusional heel angle This. It was supposed to be stupid, and it was the perfect kind of stupid for pro wrestling.
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Oct 23, 2014 20:37
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Lil Naitch just told me on twitter that he didn't actually hang out with Sid when he was doing that angle. That's a little bit of a let down.
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Oct 23, 2014 20:48
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I don't think Goldberg has ever had a clean loss. As in no interference, no low blows, no weapons...
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Oct 23, 2014 20:58
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MrBling posted:Lil Naitch just told me on twitter that he didn't actually hang out with Sid when he was doing that angle. Never meet your heroes
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Oct 23, 2014 21:53
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Hahaha, "What better setting than the Canadian Rockies for the next In Your House?!" It was in Winnipeg. 
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Oct 24, 2014 00:19
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I was just talking with a friend about how the current selections of Raw on the network don't really allow you to take advantage of the MNW episodes or PPV catalog like you should be able to. It turned into a conversation about an idea for a show that I really think would be great for the network. One of the best things I saw on the network so far was the Attitude Week a few weeks ago, where they showed episodes of Raw and then a PPV match that they were building too. I'd love to see a weekly show where they have clips from Raw followed by the PPV match that follows. They could do this for Nitro too. I can't imagine it would take too much effort to get the episodes together, certainly less then the Countdown episodes.
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Oct 24, 2014 04:09
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AlbertRayon posted:I was just talking with a friend about how the current selections of Raw on the network don't really allow you to take advantage of the MNW episodes or PPV catalog like you should be able to. It turned into a conversation about an idea for a show that I really think would be great for the network. One of the best things I saw on the network so far was the Attitude Week a few weeks ago, where they showed episodes of Raw and then a PPV match that they were building too. I'd love to see a weekly show where they have clips from Raw followed by the PPV match that follows. They could do this for Nitro too. I can't imagine it would take too much effort to get the episodes together, certainly less then the Countdown episodes. So just splice the buildup for a match together and then show the match? I mean, they kind of already do that with video packages before a match, but I could see watching a full 15-20 minutes of build then the match. Could be interesting, and yeah, it'd only be truck-monkey work so no need for talking heads or new footage.
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Oct 24, 2014 04:31
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Memento posted:So just splice the buildup for a match together and then show the match? I mean, they kind of already do that with video packages before a match, but I could see watching a full 15-20 minutes of build then the match. Could be interesting, and yeah, it'd only be truck-monkey work so no need for talking heads or new footage. That's what I was thinking, more in depth than the video package before the match. Show the full promos and matches on the weekly show that build to a particular PPV match. The footage is already made and digitized, why not take advantage of it?
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Oct 24, 2014 04:37
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