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It feels like they edited the pilot with a blender. It was weird to have Newcastle explained that much right off the bat instead of teasing it out over a few episodes. I'll still end up watching this whole season just to see where it goes.
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Oct 25, 2014 16:44
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I had no idea they were writing out Liv. I don't mind too much because she was boring, but they should have created a different pilot for the air since so much of it was dedicated to providing exposition for a character that doesn't matter. Does Constatine physically fight demons in the comics or is it just him chanting latin while stuff happens?
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Oct 25, 2014 16:44
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ghostwritingduck posted:I had no idea they were writing out Liv. I don't mind too much because she was boring, but they should have created a different pilot for the air since so much of it was dedicated to providing exposition for a character that doesn't matter. It's mostly him conning his way into and out of trouble with the power of back-stabbery and bullshit.
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Oct 25, 2014 16:46
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The traditional Vertigo John is a lovely fighter, as a character trait. New DC John is probably a little more active. But it's pretty much all trickery. I wish they had Leverage style endings. For example, we shouldn't have been in on John having Richie sabotage the power grid.
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Oct 25, 2014 16:49
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I'm interested enough in the character to want to check out some of the comics, any idea where I could start? I don't really want to read every single one that's come out since the 80s.
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Oct 25, 2014 17:00
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My wife is more into Constantine then I am, and suggested any of the Hellblazer trades written by Mike Carey or Brian Azzerello. I believe Dangerous Habit is the trade with the cancer story line that gets mentioned now and then. Nice thing about Hellblazer that each trade is more self contained then other on-going series, so you can just pick up a plot that you find interesting, and not be too lost. Probably want to start with the first one for any given author though, since there might be a bit more carry ove within there particular run. Avoid the reboot series titled Constantine, it's terrible.
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Oct 25, 2014 17:38
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Deakul posted:I'm interested enough in the character to want to check out some of the comics, any idea where I could start? I don't really want to read every single one that's come out since the 80s. Constantine had a lot of ups and downs over the course of his extremely long series, but if I had to pick out one starting place as the "definitive Constantine" it would be Garth Ennis's run which starts with Dangerous Habits.
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Oct 25, 2014 18:11
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I finally caught it on NBC's page. I really liked it, like many said the pilot felt rushed but then it's a pilot. Looks like something decent and promising, let's see how it goes for the rest of the season.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:04
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Enjoyed Matt Ryan in the short lived Suspect Behavior and I think he is nailing it in this. Don't know any more about Constantine beyond the Keanu movie but really enjoyed the episode. Don't understand why the dropped the Liv character.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:53
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Digital Jedi posted:Enjoyed Matt Ryan in the short lived Suspect Behavior and I think he is nailing it in this. Don't know any more about Constantine beyond the Keanu movie but really enjoyed the episode. The official line is that the show runners decided to move in a different direction. So I guess away from "wide eyed newcomer joins Constantine" and toward "Constantine works with some old friends/aquaintances?" Blood stained scry map is a little on the nose as a plot device, though I suppose not any more than having a character scry a trouble spot at the beginning of every episode.
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Oct 25, 2014 20:09
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hollylolly posted:The official line is that the show runners decided to move in a different direction. So I guess away from "wide eyed newcomer joins Constantine" and toward "Constantine works with some old friends/aquaintances?" Blood stained scry map is a little on the nose as a plot device, though I suppose not any more than having a character scry a trouble spot at the beginning of every episode. I enjoyed it but it was pretty obvious knowing beforehand (and even a bit without) that they were gonna write off Liv and what changed around that. Also I didn't really like Liv at all, either it was her lines or something or I didn't particularly like Lucy Griffith's American accent (what a crime IMO).
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Oct 25, 2014 20:22
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I don't see John being a good teacher, so getting away from him training someone is probably a good choice in the long run.
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Oct 25, 2014 20:39
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gninjagnome posted:I don't see John being a good teacher, so getting away from him training someone is probably a good choice in the long run. Getting away from John is always a good idea, as the longer you spend with John the greater the odds you will be dying horribly in one of John's plots.** ** Unless your name is Chaz.
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Oct 25, 2014 20:44
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bobkatt013 posted:Getting away from John is always a good idea, as the longer you spend with John the greater the odds you will be dying horribly in one of John's plots.** In which case you'll be dying in ALL of John's plots. I actually don't know that much about the comics - that picture that was behind the professor of metaphysics. Was that significant in some way comic-wise? It was taking up a ton of screen real estate, and I didn't see any way it tied into the episode. Was that the comic version of the professor or something?
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Oct 26, 2014 02:31
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Zion posted:In which case you'll be dying in ALL of John's plots. If you mean Ritchie,that wasn't his comic version*, but I'm curious because it looked familiar. Is it a portrait of a musician or something? *edit: In his comic version he looks all 80's nerdy with his ponytail and huge 80's glasses.
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Oct 26, 2014 02:44
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As someone who doesn't know jack poo poo about Hellblazer and only ever saw the trailer for the Keanu Constantine, I'm kinda just hoping the show is Brimstone 2.0.
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Oct 26, 2014 10:12
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Zion posted:In which case you'll be dying in ALL of John's plots.
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Oct 26, 2014 11:06
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Oben posted:It was John Lydon from the Sex Pistols, guys. Come on.  I'm not very well versed in punk music.
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Oct 26, 2014 14:12
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Desperado Bones posted:If you mean Ritchie,that wasn't his comic version*, but I'm curious because it looked familiar. To be fair to Richie, it was the 80's. IIRC, he was into some Gibsonian "demons live on the internet" thing, rather than "I'm checking forums for weird news". In the comics John sacrifices him to the net-demons by disconnecting his EEG-modem, trapping him forever inside the net. I agree with everyone who wanted this to be on HBO. I get the feeling that some network suit demanded that John has to be an exorcist and pal around with angels fighting demons. This is pretty far from the comics. In the Gabriel arc, the archangel is such a monumental rear end in a top hat that John gets his succubus friend to seduce him, causing him to fall from grace with god, and then chainsaws his wings off in a graveyard. The last time we see the archangel, he is a homeless bum in London. His incantations were pretty terrible as well. "The sacred cross commands you, the star of David commands you"? What kind of entry-level demonologist would say that with a straight face? Tonally, the comics are closer to Louie than Buffy the Vampire Slayer. John might spend an entire issue playing bingo with a hooker, talking to an old guy about the war, or remembering his childhood bullying. It would probably be difficult to convince the supernatural audience to watch an aging man cough up his lungs for an entire season, so I get why the network went this way.
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Oct 26, 2014 16:20
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Desperado Bones posted:
Constantine even directly references the Sex Pistols in the scene where he's arguing about who is more important: Ramones or Sex Pistols. For people not well versed in punk music, that's a classic argument of US punk vs UK punk. Constantine's look is obviously modelled on Lydon: 
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Oct 26, 2014 23:37
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Desperado Bones posted:
I'm not either, and it seemed kinda odd that a random hand-drawn picture of a musician got more screen time than Dr. Fate's helmet. I mean, several shots gave him and the picture the exact same amount of space:  Oh well. Just seemed odd to me.
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Oct 27, 2014 00:05
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Zion posted:I'm not either, and it seemed kinda odd that a random hand-drawn picture of a musician got more screen time than Dr. Fate's helmet. It's not very random. The main character is based on the person in the picture and the whole US vs. UK thing is going to be an obvious debate about the differences between the comic and show.
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Oct 27, 2014 00:09
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Random Stranger posted:Constantine had a lot of ups and downs over the course of his extremely long series, but if I had to pick out one starting place as the "definitive Constantine" it would be Garth Ennis's run which starts with Dangerous Habits. The criminally uncollected Paul Jenkins run is better and I will fight you to the death over this disagreement.
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Oct 27, 2014 01:01
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InfiniteZero posted:Constantine's look is obviously modelled on Lydon: Wait...wasn't Constantine based on 80's Sting? Wikipedia posted:In these early appearances, Constantine was depicted as a sorcerer of questionable morality, whose appearance was based on that of the musician Sting (specifically, as Sting appeared in the films Brimstone and Treacle and Quadrophenia). Alan Moore created the character after artists Stephen R. Bissette and John Totleben, who were fans of the Police, expressed a desire to draw a character who looked like Sting.
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Oct 27, 2014 01:01
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Rhyno posted:The criminally uncollected Paul Jenkins run is better and I will fight you to the death over this disagreement. I would say his run is so good, since its so unlike the other. You think you know how it is going to end, and in the end its nothing like that.
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Oct 27, 2014 01:03
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Kampfbereit posted:I agree with everyone who wanted this to be on HBO. I get the feeling that some network suit demanded that John has to be an exorcist and pal around with angels fighting demons. This is pretty far from the comics. I'm hoping that this is just the team having to play it safe for the first few episodes to make sure it can get an audience (And to a certain extent, it feels like its trying to appeal to an American audience.) before becoming more faithful later. I'd love to see Constantine return to London at some point or see if they'll tackle some of the more "difficult" storylines (such as Constantine dealing with a bunch of Neo-Nazi's) but there's not much to go on with just a pilot which usually play it safe anyway. That said, Matt Ryan is basically Constantine so they got that bit correct at least!
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Oct 27, 2014 08:27
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Venmoch posted:it feels like its trying to appeal to an American audience. That bloodstained map is a bad omen, it looks like they are setting up a very formulaic "demon of the week". And I'm incredibly tired of Ye Olde Hidden Library With Ye Leather-bound Books Of Ancient Knowledge And Plot Expository Devices. "So, it looks like the Pittsburgh demon is Fnurzifer, he controls traffic, and he's allergic to nuts. I wonder if we can lure him to the abandoned nut packing plant?" The last scene with the lighter fluid was, apart from the corny 1980's street gang, more in line with the comics. John is a con artist who uses parlor tricks and mind games to get what he wants, not a power cable exorcist. Poor Alan Moore, I can imagine him tearing up yet another check with a lot of zeroes on it.
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Oct 27, 2014 11:38
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So now every show has a super-hacker? A show about angels and demons needs a hacker???
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Oct 27, 2014 13:47
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I can see this being demon of the week for a while just to get new viewers.
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Oct 27, 2014 13:52
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Venmoch posted:I'd love to see Constantine return to London at some point or see if they'll tackle some of the more "difficult" storylines (such as Constantine dealing with a bunch of Neo-Nazi's) but there's not much to go on with just a pilot which usually play it safe anyway. That said, Matt Ryan is basically Constantine so they got that bit correct at least! I'm very doubtful of that kind-of storyline ever actually happening. The show seems really in-love with portraying the supernatural and not exploring the human component of the supernatural beyond "wah I don't wanna get tortured by a monster." Kampfbereit posted:That bloodstained map is a bad omen, it looks like they are setting up a very formulaic "demon of the week". And I'm incredibly tired of Ye Olde Hidden Library With Ye Leather-bound Books Of Ancient Knowledge And Plot Expository Devices. "So, it looks like the Pittsburgh demon is Fnurzifer, he controls traffic, and he's allergic to nuts. I wonder if we can lure him to the abandoned nut packing plant?" This sounds a lot more likely for what we're going to get. Along with another neutered version of "Dangerous Habits." Eddain posted:"Arrogant English bastard con artist with knowledge of the occult"? If you need to describe Constantine to modern TV viewers it's best to go: "House, but he's a British punk rock demon hunter." You run the risk of making them think the show is a procedural, but in terms of how the character interacts with the world this is probably the best shorthand to get someone to understand quickly what Constantine's deal and appeal is. ---------- I didn't hate the pilot but there was a lot of stuff I didn't care for either. Dr. Fate's helmet is lovely pandering to grognards who go "OMG THAT'S A THING I KNOW I KNOW THAT THING", and Constantine's constant use of exorcisms was very stupid, and holy gently caress was rushing through what happened in Newcastle a dumb loving idea. That said Matt Ryan is a very solid anchor of a lead who seems to get the character, they did show Constantine being a con-man and wrecking the lives of everyone involved with him, and the Angel felt very Hellblazer. So yeah I could really see this shaking out either way and I'm going to have to give it at least a few more episodes before drawing a conclusion.
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Oct 27, 2014 14:36
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Venmoch posted:I'm hoping that this is just the team having to play it safe for the first few episodes to make sure it can get an audience (And to a certain extent, it feels like its trying to appeal to an American audience.) before becoming more faithful later. Yeah. When I saw it took place in Atlanta it was like... really? One thing they could borrow from Supernatural is the travel aspect.
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Oct 27, 2014 14:37
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Firstborn posted:Yeah. When I saw it took place in Atlanta it was like... really? One thing they could borrow from Supernatural is the travel aspect. Eh, a lot of great Constantine stories take place in the Deep South (I'm mostly familiar with his appearance in Swamp Thing). The American South is a fertile setting for horror in general (Recently, True Detective come to mind). The pilot was kind of bland, but it was a pilot.
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Oct 27, 2014 15:38
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Firstborn posted:Yeah. When I saw it took place in Atlanta it was like... really? One thing they could borrow from Supernatural is the travel aspect. Eh,I wasn't really surprised they decided to make everything in the United States. I mean, come on, they did the Smurfs in New York. Ugly Betty in New York. Godzilla in New York. So it's to be expected, the funny thing was reading comments of a few people whining because John wasn't 100% American even if everything is happening in the US  I truly expect,that if the series keeps on going and doesn't die, they do like Hannibal and shoot at least part of a season overseas.
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Oct 27, 2014 15:41
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mind the walrus posted:The show seems really in-love with portraying the supernatural and not exploring the human component of the supernatural beyond "wah I don't wanna get tortured by a monster." Well there's a great example of the supernatural in the case of the Neo-Nazi's. When John killed them with a golem created from the corpse of a arms dealer that sold them Israeli weapons. Which is fantastic punishment. That being said, that version would be so neutered but it'd still be amazing to see in some way on the small screen. Most of the Azzarello "Constantine in the USA" run was amazing but I can imagine most of it would be difficult to get past a network head without some serious alterations.
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Oct 27, 2014 18:14
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The pilot was so bad I actively wished that Keanu did a TV series based on his movie instead.
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Oct 27, 2014 18:50
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Party Plane Jones posted:The pilot was so bad I actively wished that Keanu did a TV series based on his movie instead. I'm not sure that a John Wick series would make it past the NBC censors.
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Oct 27, 2014 20:41
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Desperado Bones posted:Wait...wasn't Constantine based on 80's Sting? Yes, he was.
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Oct 27, 2014 20:50
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Kampfbereit posted:To be fair to Richie, it was the 80's. Further info on what happens to that guy in the comics, I think: Pretty sure John is cool with him getting out of the net and into the body of a demon John kills with trickery, and the nerd guy has ultimate power and is happy for like two seconds until some even badder super demon just pops out of hell and is like "hah you pleb maybe after half of all eternity of insane unimaginable suffering we'll let you use this power okay dude time for hell" - John's like "meh sorry mate" and walks away smoking. This first episode was pretty watchable. As a recent first time reader of the first few collections of Hellblazer, I'm not really sure we can except a faithful adaption. As the post I'm quoting notes, a lot of it was rather slow-burning heavy handed "lol gently caress thatcher" satire. The build up of those slow-burn issues MADE the occasional rear end in a top hat trickster out devils-the-devil stuff awesome, but mainstream TV can't sustain that episode to episode without getting dull and/or cheapening the effect. I'm just hoping to see quasi-John do the cool Hellblazer stuff once in awhile, without too much bad TV poo poo getting in the way.
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Oct 28, 2014 07:01
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As somebody with no skin in the game at all regarding the comic but enjoyed the movie from a decade ago or whatever, I really enjoyed the pilot. I wouldn't expect it to stick around, seems pretty niche to me, but I said the same thing about Grimm and Once Upon A Time (neither of which I've ever seen beyond the commercials for them) and they're still around, right?
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Oct 28, 2014 17:34
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Yes, both are still around.
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Oct 28, 2014 17:37
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