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Ernie Muppari posted:im pretty sure ignorance, sloth, and spite are the things this nation was founded upon Same thing, fancier words.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:24
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nutranurse posted:It's kind of a catch-44 wherein politicians won't pay attention to people who don't vote and people who don't vote don't vote because politicans don't pay attention to them. Yeah, sure, a politican could risk it and do some Warren-esque "lets try to help kids out with student loans" stuff, but, well that poo poo failed miserably in Congress. Because politicians know young people don't vote, so why stick your neck out for them? I appreciate you actually taking the time to put together some thoughts on this other than the same stupid "lets poo poo on the people who are ostensibly on our side" bullshit that goes on after every election. People don't vote for a lot of reasons, and saying it's simply laziness is a really weak and shallow way to look at things. Voter apathy has a lot of reasons and some of them are really good. People feel effectively disenfranchized and you have to realize that not everyone can be a political nerd who is aware of most of the issues because they can brows a message board at their cushy desk job. People are confused, angry, and feel powerless, and that's a recipe for not voting. Do I choose one rich guy, or the other rich guy? What law that is named the opposite of what it will really do should I vote for? Will the guy who looks better actually do anything, or is this all empty election promises? People may be selfish and shortsighted, but you can't say they haven't been trained to be that way by the American political system. Build a better political system, and you'll get better turnout. Not that I think that is easy.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:25
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Zeitgueist posted:This is like where we argued for 3 pages about how you can successfully shame fat folks into being thin. Fat people aren't actively loving over the rest of the country by eating tasty food. Your analogy sucks. Not to mention that if a fat man shoveling all the cakes and pies into his mouth complains about being fat, folks who are at least trying to lose weight are going to loathe and despise them.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:27
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Amergin posted:Don't blame the voters, blame the Democratic party for putting up terrible candidates and running terrible campaigns. I agree wholeheartedly with Amergin. This is not an Amergin trollpost. Nonsense posted:Perry stripped states of their wealthiest corporations all on the basis that Texas ideology made your business more powerful and influential, than if it stayed in California or New York. I didn't know you could vote for the Texas Enterprise Fund.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:27
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McConnell, in a press conference, said there would be no government shutdowns. Of course, what else is he going to say?
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Nov 5, 2014 20:27
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SAVE_US.CHR
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Also let's not forget the ballot initiatives were by-and-large liberal victories. The economy as a whole is better but people aren't feeling it for myriad reasons. If they voted out Democrats for Republicans it's because the Democrats, whatever they've been doing hasn't given the voter tangible benefits in their daily lives. Why wouldn't they want a changing of the guard? At the same time the voter realizes some of these liberal initiatives would help their situation out, hence the minimum wage votes. So really, blame the lovely Dem incumbents for being lovely and the lovely Dem challengers for being lovely. The voter isn't to blame here, and neither is the non-voter.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:28
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Talmonis posted:Fat people aren't actively loving over the rest of the country by eating tasty food. Your analogy sucks. The analogy was that you're not going to shame someone into ending behaviors, regardless of self-destructiveness, because you're attacking a symptom rather than the problem. The analogy didn't suck, it just went over your head.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:29
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Amergin posted:So really, blame the lovely Dem incumbents for being lovely and the lovely Dem challengers for being lovely. The voter isn't to blame here, and neither is the non-voter. Didn't somebody tweet in the election thread about how there were 3 dem candidates in the 3 states with highest ACA acceptance and none of them campaigned on that and all lost badly?
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Nov 5, 2014 20:30
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Talmonis posted:Choosing to not vote when the Republicans can gain power is absolutely an action that deserves ridicule. Maybe showing people that they are the ones responsible for things going to pot will get them to do the bare loving minimum to prevent more harm to themselves. How can you blame them when the Dems they'd be voting for offer no discernable difference from the party they are voting against? Republicans ran on the "you don't want the D" premise for a while and they got shot down. Dems have been running on "Don't give them back the keys" for a while now and since then have gotten so lazy that they don't even offer up that nifty little slogan. Further they have distanced themselves from their party head so much and so aggressively that it blurs the lines even further. Basically "Which Congressman would you prefer not put Obama on their Christmas card list?"
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Nov 5, 2014 20:31
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Amergin posted:Also let's not forget the ballot initiatives were by-and-large liberal victories. Actually the average voter has gotten some help in the last few years through a little-known thing called Obamacare, but the Democrats are either idiots who are pretending it doesn't exist or pussies who roll over and concede the point about its death panels.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:31
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Zeitgueist posted:The analogy was that you're not going to shame someone into ending behaviors, regardless of self-destructiveness, because you're attacking a symptom rather than the problem.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:33
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It seems bizarre to blame the voter (or non-voter) for failure instead of a political party, almost like a form of denial or something.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:33
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I don't get why losing the senate should matter. The Republicans taught us you can filibuster everything and shut down the government and it won't matter. Besides the fact that Democrats are corrupt spineless fucks, why wouldn't they just filibuster everything like the Republicans did?
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Nov 5, 2014 20:34
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Lemming posted:I don't get why losing the senate should matter. The Republicans taught us you can filibuster everything and shut down the government and it won't matter. Besides the fact that Democrats are corrupt spineless fucks, why wouldn't they just filibuster everything like the Republicans did? Because they are corrupt spineless fucks.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:35
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Lemming posted:I don't get why losing the senate should matter. The Republicans taught us you can filibuster everything and shut down the government and it won't matter. Besides the fact that Democrats are corrupt spineless fucks, why wouldn't they just filibuster everything like the Republicans did? Because they'll get accused of obstructionism and then they'll fold like the corrupt spineless fucks they are.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:35
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Shear Modulus posted:Actually the average voter has gotten some help in the last few years through a little-known thing called Obamacare, but the Democrats are either idiots who are pretending it doesn't exist or pussies who roll over and concede the point about its death panels. Exactly. Not only has the average voter not felt the effects of a recovering economy, the few things Dems HAVE done in the past few years, ACA included, Dem candidates ran away from to try and get on-the-fence moderate conservatives and independents to sway their way. The Dem candidates, by and large, saw GOP candidates crying doom and gloom and fear and they themselves got scared to take a stand against it. They thought voters were too stupid to waste time explaining the truth to them and instead tried to pretend Obama didn't exist, and they got burned for it. Blaming the non-voters for not voting for spineless candidates vying for leadership roles is about the most stupid and naive thing you can do apart from dropping on the floor in a Walmart and screaming.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:35
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About half of the arguments in this thread come from folks not willing to admit that for all the good the Dems do, and no matter how much of a lesser evil they are, they are still loving terrible.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:36
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Lemming posted:I don't get why losing the senate should matter. The Republicans taught us you can filibuster everything and shut down the government and it won't matter. Besides the fact that Democrats are corrupt spineless fucks, why wouldn't they just filibuster everything like the Republicans did? There are plenty of issues (the Keystone Pipeline comes to mind) that a sizeable chunk of the Democrats entirely support (because their major donors support) the Republicans on despite it being eminently unpalatable to their constituents. They can just fail to maintain a filibuster and have the fig leaf that it's those darn Republicans actually doing [bad thing]. Zeitgueist posted:About half of the arguments in this thread come from folks not willing to admit that for all the good the Dems do, and no matter how much of a lesser evil they are, they are still loving terrible. Basically this.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:37
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Amergin posted:Also let's not forget the ballot initiatives were by-and-large liberal victories. These guys didn't fix the poo poo that's incomprehensibly broken in time! Let's give the keys back to the people who broke it!
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Nov 5, 2014 20:38
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Urdnot Fire posted:To put it more bluntly, when was the last time you did something because someone called you an idiot? Simply berating people for not voting isn't going to reduce their apathy one bit. Sometime around late 2012, in various arguments about Feminism. I actively try to be more empathetic and less of a dick after pursuing more information on the subject. Caused of course, by being shown just how much of a thick headed rear end I was being, here on these very forums. It's the ones who complain about what the Right does next who deserve the ridicule.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:40
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Everyone in America voted for gay weed abortions on hiked minimum wage and also voted R. Lmao loving Democrats are so poo poo.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:41
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Amergin posted:Jesus Christ get off your high horse already. There are many people out there who disagree with your opinions. There are many people out there who had better poo poo to do than vote (myself included, it's called "a job"). Either go do something fun for a couple days until you cool off and realize this poo poo doesn't really matter anyway, or just quit politics for good and be happier in your life. This is fine and all but, uh, you should have voted. Seriously. If you work for a place that threatened you for voting - a straight-up right as an American citizen - you should take their rear end to court. I had a 9 hour shift yesterday and my job couldn't do poo poo if I strolled in 8 hours late due to voting, because of that right. And this is a place that has written me up for leaning against a counter. Flex that muscle, man. You're smarter than most - be part of the informed voting public, something we really need right now. E: I hope this isn't sounding like an attack. It's not, I think I just love voting too much! Even if it isn't in my favor. Everyone should vote, especially in America. Otherwise I am down for a list of How to Chill Like An Amergin For Good and Happier Life. Armani fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 20:41
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Shear Modulus posted:I didn't know you could vote for the Texas Enterprise Fund. It pisses off liberal states and it worked successfully do you really think people didn't vote for Republicans for delivering the oil-gas industry back from the grave here, while also bringing in a lot of knowledgable skillful people into the state economy? Austin gets to deal with all the California transplants, the traffic, and those liberals do nothing to rock the gravy train Republicans delivered to this state.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:41
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Amergin posted:The economy as a whole is better but people aren't feeling it for myriad reasons. If they voted out Democrats for Republicans it's because the Democrats, whatever they've been doing hasn't given the voter tangible benefits in their daily lives. Why wouldn't they want a changing of the guard? Let's face for a moment and say GDP and GDP growth don't really reflect the economic state for an individual in this country anymore. The fact that they are expecting any economic recovery whatsoever after 2008 is, at best, wishful thinking. None of this applies in the face of automation, outsourcing, and outright growing inequality.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:41
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Zeitgueist posted:About half of the arguments in this thread come from folks not willing to admit that for all the good the Dems do, and no matter how much of a lesser evil they are, they are still loving terrible. Sometimes they're actually alright unless you're expecting full socialism now. Also, there's basically no chance of the federal minimum wage being raised until the 2020's is there? I figured if Dems held onto the Senate, they could use the leverage of knowing that they'd probably hold it until 2019 to get Republicans in the House to raise it somewhere in that 4 years in exchange for extending some massive tax cut or something. But basically it's going to be $7.25 an hour at least until 2020 huh?
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Nov 5, 2014 20:42
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Amused to Death posted:Sometimes they're actually alright unless you're expecting full socialism now. American Wage Freedom Act of 2015.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:44
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Fried Chicken posted:Alaska, North Dakota, Illinois, Arkansas, Maryland, Georgia Nebraska. With the exception of NE-02's hilarious upset the whole state stayed hard red. Minimum wage increase won with huge margins though.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:45
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:It seems bizarre to blame the voter (or non-voter) for failure instead of a political party, almost like a form of denial or something. Even when we have Campaign Obama promising us the world (and convincing a fair amount of us that we'll actually get it) voter turnout barely got close to 60% of the country to vote. Now. Say what you want about Obama-the-president, but Campaign Obama is a ridiculously attractive politician (in terms of policies, charm, and sheer  ). And he could still only convince 59.3% of the population to vote (for AND against him, so all the right-wing fervor Obama conjures up is accounted for in that tally too). That's the highest presidential turnout we've had since 1968 (which was 60.7%).Now, we can blame the political parties to hell and back, but voter turnout is a serious loving problem in this country and we can't place the blame squarely on political parties. loving Saint Reagan only got between 50-53% out for his decrepit, folksy rear end! People have become steady disengaged with politics (although the Obama coalition managed to get record numbers out, but the trouble is how do you get the Obama coalition to work its magic when obama's not on the ballot, so I'd hesitate to say that we're seeing a change in the trend) and it's both the fault of our lovely politicians and the lovely electorate. The public just really doesn't loving care ever since they became all disillusioned after Nixon hosed poo poo up. I mean, after writing all this I came to realize more and more that yeah, it's the fault of the politicians for being so lovely, but at the same time it's irresponsible as gently caress to just disengage yourself from the whole apparatus that dictates the course your local, state, and federal government will take. How else can you enact change unless you start a violent revolution? And fat chance of that happening in America, especially post-911 America. e: Again, I dunno if it's my immigrant bias coloring my views (definitely), but voting is awesome and cool and something you absolutely should do even when there's no one you really want to vote for. I just find it so hard to reconcile the fact that so many Americans just don't give a gently caress and yet do enough to complain when poo poo goes poorly for them. MLKQUOTEMACHINE fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 20:45
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Talmonis posted:Sometime around late 2012, in various arguments about Feminism. I actively try to be more empathetic and less of a dick after pursuing more information on the subject. Caused of course, by being shown just how much of a thick headed rear end I was being, here on these very forums. There's also a bunch of folks from that time period who doubled down on their dickishness and chased a bunch of feminist posters off the forum. It's good that you changed because of those threads, seriously though, if it was SA that did it.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:45
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Amused to Death posted:Sometimes they're actually alright unless you're expecting full socialism now. Lol that you think there's going to be a federal minimum wage in 2020.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:46
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Lemming posted:I don't get why losing the senate should matter. The Republicans taught us you can filibuster everything and shut down the government and it won't matter. Besides the fact that Democrats are corrupt spineless fucks, why wouldn't they just filibuster everything like the Republicans did? Judicial appointments?
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Nov 5, 2014 20:50
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Amused to Death posted:Also, there's basically no chance of the federal minimum wage being raised until the 2020's is there? I figured if Dems held onto the Senate, they could use the leverage of knowing that they'd probably hold it until 2019 to get Republicans in the House to raise it somewhere in that 4 years in exchange for extending some massive tax cut or something. But basically it's going to be $7.25 an hour at least until 2020 huh? The first possible opportunity for anything like that will actually be 2023. 2022 will be the first election after the 2020 census and the earliest possible opportunity for republican control of the house to fail if states implement less effective gerrymandering after that census. They'd enter office in 2023.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:50
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Currently on the White House TelePrompTer, preparing for Obama's speech. We'll have to wait and see if the election results mean that government of the people, by the people, and for the people shall perish from the Earth.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:52
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Joementum posted:Currently on the White House TelePrompTer, preparing for Obama's speech. Is Obama disbanding the Union and finally declaring himself caliph of the Islamic People's Union of Nazi-Communists? 
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Nov 5, 2014 20:54
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nutranurse posted:Is Obama disbanding the Union and finally declaring himself caliph of the Islamic People's Union of Nazi-Communists? What time is our new caliph speaking?
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Nov 5, 2014 20:55
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In less than half an hour, aircraft from there will join others from around the world. And Obama will be launching the largest aerial battle in the history of mankind.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:56
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Jagchosis posted:hick won Yes between that and 594 passing in WA, I'm officially transitioning from "the dems fell on their swords because they can't keep from suppressing rurals to appease their craven Aaron Sorkin base" to "this is a nation of cowards who love to sign their rights away for the promise of safety." Stay tuned!
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Nov 5, 2014 20:58
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people have trouble caring about dems in midterm elections:AstheWorldWorlds posted:Because they are corrupt spineless fucks. when your group's whole deal has, for decades, been at best promising to do things to help your constituents and then failing to even make a token effort to do so, and at worst actively working with a group who's your avowed enemy to enact policies which actively hurt your constituents, then it probably shouldn't be a big surprise when nobody gives enough of a poo poo to support you when you need it also: Petr posted:Lol that you think there's going to be a federal minimum wage in 2020.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:59
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Obama sounds so beaten down.
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Nov 5, 2014 20:59
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nutranurse posted:Is Obama disbanding the Union and finally declaring himself caliph of the Islamic People's Union of Nazi-Communists? america's first openly lizardman president
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Nov 5, 2014 21:00
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