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Sober posted:Second person and present tense Iain m banks did that in Complicity.
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Nov 9, 2014 22:32
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Present tense is awesome once you have the right voice for it. Steven King's Mr. Mercedes is in present tense, (a lot of it) and it stuck out at first only because it WAS in present tense. But it's a pulp novel, written like a modern day noir Sam Spade thing, and it worked great for that. "I go up to the guy and ask him why he's loitering around a kid's school. The guy says he's not loitering, he's waiting on a cousin. And I'm wondering what the hell he's doing in just socks." Etc. I actually enjoyed it so much, I accidentally wrote a few chapters in present tense just because I'd been reading his book and digging it so much. Had to go back and fix a lot.
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Nov 9, 2014 23:05
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magnificent7 posted:Present tense is awesome once you have the right voice for it. Steven King's Mr. Mercedes is in present tense, (a lot of it) and it stuck out at first only because it WAS in present tense. I hate to be a big weirdo and this doesn't change what you mean, but Sam Spade as in The Maltese Falcon as in Dashiell Hammett is one of the few entries in the genre during that era that was written in the past tense. Arguably the progenitor of that genre, or at least one of the main writers to make it popular, it is quite interesting that it's in past tense. Compared to Marlowe in Chandler's stuff (though I've only read his first one), we're a lot more removed from Sam Spade's head. So, in that respect, it could be easier to get closer to a character in present tense. Though really you could just use a close past tense and get a similar effect. I guess it also largely depends on if you're doing first or third person. Personally in The Maltese Falcon the past tense, removed from Sam Spade's head thing, is one of my favourite things about the book. You're constantly playing catch up with Spade, unsure as to what exactly his plan is, what he's figured out, and what his true motives are. At the end we can only work with our assumptions about the character. quote:Spade, coming around the corner from the elevator at a few minutes past six in the
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Nov 9, 2014 23:16
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chthonic bell posted:I dunno where else to put this, but what's the general attitude towards telling a story in present tense? I seem to have an easier time writing in the present tense, but I've not seen a great many works (esp. speculative fiction works) that do it. Present tense is perfectly acceptable if you do it well and it works for the story. The last two books I read (City Of Stairs and The Yiddish Policemen's Union) were both written in the present tense and were for fantastic. The latter even won a bunch of awards when it came out. From my experience, there doesn't seem to be a stigma against it anywhere I've seen, so if it's how you like to write then by all means embrace it and keep going.
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Nov 9, 2014 23:52
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crabrock posted:There are several people who contribute who just read the prompt, sign up, and post their story. It's not necessary to follow all the other stuff, as it's mostly just people like me being a jerk. We also have an offsite archive (http://writocracy.com/thunderdome) which posts the prompts, entries, and results, which is a bit easier to wade through than the thread. This is awesome!
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Nov 10, 2014 05:18
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The Hunger games is written in present tense and it works well there, IMO. Gives a good sense of immediacy.
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Nov 10, 2014 06:43
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Curious, because I hear a lot that present tense is good if used correctly, what is the correct use of present tense? I know that getting across a feeling of immediacy is one of the reasons you should use it, but what other cases would you use present tense/not use past tense?
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Nov 10, 2014 07:02
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i like to use present tense if past tense ruins the story with knowledge. I know that "past tense" is supposed to be read as "just happened" but to me it reads of somebody retelling something that happened to them previously, and so it's annoying to me when past tense stuff has twists and keeps knowledge from the reader, because I feel like the author is being withholding. In present text I feel like I'm going along for the ride with the characters, and so of course they don't know things, and it doesn't feel like they're keeping things from me.
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Nov 10, 2014 07:05
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Sometimes present tense just seems to fit the voice of whoever's telling the story, as well.
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Nov 10, 2014 07:16
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Last time this was discussed I realised I flat out couldn't remember what tense the book I was reading was in and had to go check. Do people really feel it makes that much of a difference? I don't think I even really notice.
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Nov 10, 2014 13:33
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I notice it when it's bad, because it sticks out and takes me out of suspension of disbelief.
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Nov 10, 2014 14:05
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Wrote 2500 words today. Felt good. First draft shite, but still.
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Nov 10, 2014 18:50
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Sober posted:Second person and present tense Second person future yo. "You will hear a knock at the door. When you rise, the knocking will abruptly stop, chased by a scream. Sweat will roll from your brow with the effort needed to lift your girth, as curiosity will cause you to waddle to the peephole in your mildew-crusted apartment door. Your forehead will leave a greasy stain while you squint one fat-lidded eye closed to get a closer view into the hall. You will sigh with relief when you see your neighbor's door ajar. A line of blood will trace back into his apartment. Relief that you will not have to open the door to help anybody sinks in to your chest. You will cross back to your sofa, and when the folds of your rear end nestle back into the grooves you will spend months implanting into the cushion, you will wonder if that scream came from your pizza delivery man, or if he is just running late. Either way, you will order a new pizza, and your stomach will gurgle approval."
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Nov 10, 2014 19:44
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I think I'm sticking with present tense, mostly because I enjoy writing in it a lot more than in past tense and poo poo, if I'm not happy with my work, what's the point? I do have a serious question: where do I find people to give me decent crit, because my friends are great but I rarely get the sort of feedback I want from them and also, getting a thorough analysis is very hard. I've posted in the snippets thread here, but nobody's bitten, so far.
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Nov 10, 2014 19:46
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Thunderdome is probably the best option, even though you said before you weren't for it. The actual competition aside, it features a great group of writers who are (mostly) always willing to provide critique. Critique is part of what makes TD run so well.
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Nov 10, 2014 20:04
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I'm willing to give it a try, I'm just afraid of my very first entry losing. 
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Nov 10, 2014 20:08
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Best I can suggest is finding a writer friend who you can mutually bounce criticism off of. Regular friends tend to just give you "it's good", but if it's someone who also wants to get better you can both help each other. Also posting here in CC. It's a slower board, true, but still.
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Nov 10, 2014 20:11
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Whalley posted:Second person future yo. You will gently caress me now. You will make me love it.
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Nov 11, 2014 02:59
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chthonic bell posted:I'm willing to give it a try, I'm just afraid of my very first entry losing. Not all TD babbies lose on their first try. But if you do, then you probably needed it anyway.
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Nov 11, 2014 03:13
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Schneider Heim posted:Not all TD babbies lose on their first try. But if you do, then you probably needed it anyway. It's a $5 bet that your writing is as good as you think it is.
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Nov 11, 2014 05:51
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Don't spend that $5 right away though, just in case. I lost like three times in a month or something.
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Nov 11, 2014 07:08
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a vast majority of losses are somebody's first or second entry. http://writocracy.com/thunderdome/howlong.php?display=loss it means that people overestimate how good at writing they are. you can never know until you open up and post something. you'll never be a writer hiding your work from the world, and nobody's first thing is publishable quality.
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Nov 11, 2014 08:39
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crabrock posted:a vast majority of losses are somebody's first or second entry. 47........... Chairchucker I think we should maybe have a moment
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Nov 11, 2014 09:30
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sebmojo posted:47........... Chairchucker
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Nov 11, 2014 10:27
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sebmojo posted:It's a $5 bet that your writing is as good as you think it is. What if I hate my writing and think it's poo poo?  I signed up and toxx'd myself.
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Nov 11, 2014 16:09
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How do you know when you're ready to start submitting stuff for publication? How do I even figure out where to submit the stuff I write? I've submitted a couple times to fantasy magazines and been rejected, but that was a long time ago and I rarely write fantasy anymore.
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Nov 11, 2014 21:33
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Anathema Device posted:How do you know when you're ready to start submitting stuff for publication? https://www.duotrope.com costs like 5$ a month, but it's what I use.
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Nov 11, 2014 22:01
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crabrock posted:i like to use present tense if past tense ruins the story with knowledge. I know that "past tense" is supposed to be read as "just happened" but to me it reads of somebody retelling something that happened to them previously, and so it's annoying to me when past tense stuff has twists and keeps knowledge from the reader, because I feel like the author is being withholding. In present text I feel like I'm going along for the ride with the characters, and so of course they don't know things, and it doesn't feel like they're keeping things from me. This post only makes sense to me if I assume you're only considering the existence of first-person narration. People who only consider the existence of first-person narration make me much less likely to use it.
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Nov 12, 2014 04:46
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LaughMyselfTo posted:This post only makes sense to me if I assume you're only considering the existence of first-person narration. People who only consider the existence of first-person narration make me much less likely to use it. This isn't correct. Regardless of the perspective past tense implies that the narrator has knowledge of what is happening next, even if the narration is limited.
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Nov 12, 2014 04:51
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I don't know how you can be mad about a narrator withholding information. Good storytellers withhold information until it's dramatically appropriate to reveal it. That's what makes it a story rather than a jumbled recounting of events.
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Nov 12, 2014 06:01
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I have a dumb question that is way too premature for me to be worrying about, BUT: I have a killer idea for a novel. It's unique, it's good, and I really like it. I have spent the last month developing my characters and the plot points. I think it has real potential. BUT (and here's where I get pretentious) it's a post-apocalyptic journey novel. And I just don't think that's the kind of novelist I want to be. I am ready to spend a couple years working hard on a novel and making it my first truly serious effort. But I am worried that if I do this one and god forbid I am successful at it, it will lump me into a category I don't want to be in. I told you this is stupid.
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Nov 12, 2014 06:11
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Baby Babbeh posted:I don't know how you can be mad about a narrator withholding information. Good storytellers withhold information until it's dramatically appropriate to reveal it. That's what makes it a story rather than a jumbled recounting of events. clearly you have not read enough horrible stories that end with "oh yeah and it turns out that the entire time he was carrying a basketful of kittens so that's what all the meowing was."
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Nov 12, 2014 06:15
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Baby Babbeh posted:I don't know how you can be mad about a narrator withholding information. Good storytellers withhold information until it's dramatically appropriate to reveal it. That's what makes it a story rather than a jumbled recounting of events. Yeah Crabrock, u mad bro? I don't understand why this is a point of contention though. Sometimes it feels disingenuous when the "twist" of the story is something that should be apparent from a past tense narrative. Present tense is a good way to create tension in the narrative without withholding information. That's all Crabrock was saying. Considering many (most?) books are written in past tense, I don't think anyone is arguing that all stories should be in present tense. All that's being discussed here is that past tense can, depending on the story, create cheap tension by withholding things from the reader that would be apparent if the reader were physically there in the story. But Baby Babbeh, you seem to be confusing "withholding information" and "telling a story in linear order." In the most technical sense, yes, you have to "withhold" information from the reader simply because books are things you read from start to finish, so obvs there's going to be information you have at the end that you didn't have at the beginning. blue squares posted:I have a dumb question that is way too premature for me to be worrying about, BUT: If it lumps you into the category of "having a published book" I think you should go for it. You seem to like the idea, don't punish yourself for having it 
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Nov 12, 2014 06:15
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i literally saying that the only narrative format i enjoy is wikipedia, where i can get all of the information in an upfront manner at any time I choose.
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Nov 12, 2014 06:30
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I don't automatically think of past-tense as "long in the past." There are books like Moby Dick, which begin with "Some years ago," but without some indicator that the narrator is literally writing it down/telling it after the fact, I automatically assume that the past-tense is just a verb form. The action is happening as I read it, but the author uses squelched instead of squelches.
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Nov 12, 2014 06:36
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blue squares posted:I told you this is stupid.
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Nov 12, 2014 06:54
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Whalley posted:Write a second novel under a different name, and let your agent/publisher know it's you, so they know they can put more money into promoting you if your first sells all good like That's a great point. Thanks. If anyone else came in here and wrote the same thing as me I'd probably roll my eyes and tell them that they should worry about getting published at all before they worry about being pigeonholed. That's a great compromise. It's probably a moot point anyway because my book will probably suck.
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Nov 12, 2014 07:01
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blue squares posted:I have a dumb question that is way too premature for me to be worrying about, BUT: I, like many, roll my eyes at any amateur writer whose first book is going to be an epic fantasy series, or something involving werewolves. I decided long ago that I'm not that guy and would never do something so transparently crap. So naturally the first two things I'm thinking of are an epic fantasy series and something involving a werewolf. It just happens. If you give a poo poo about the work and it's making you enthused in spite of the genre then just do it. Look at it when it's done.
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Nov 12, 2014 10:24
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Baby Babbeh posted:I don't know how you can be mad about a narrator withholding information. Good storytellers withhold information until it's dramatically appropriate to reveal it. That's what makes it a story rather than a jumbled recounting of events. Bad reveals feel like an rear end-pull, like getting to a final climactic boss fight and the character suddenly revealing they are a black belt or wearing a bulletproof vest or surrounded by snipers, (unless it's part of a subplot about them coming to terms with wanting / being able to use kung fu / basic safety equipment / military connections). It's a tough one because it requires a skilled writer to pull it off properly, and 'dramatically appropriate' doesn't help without the deeper knowledge of structure most offenders of this trope will be lacking. It can also lead to the dreaded gambit pileup in the wrong hands.
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Nov 12, 2014 11:58
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Szmitten posted:I, like many, roll my eyes at any amateur writer whose first book is going to be an epic fantasy series, or something involving werewolves. I decided long ago that I'm not that guy and would never do something so transparently crap. My NaNo involves a werewolf. It's mainly inspired by things I didn't like but thought I could do better. Nice.
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Nov 12, 2014 22:03
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