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Gideon020 posted:You're going to do Arkham Origins? I heard that it was lackluster compared to Asylum and City. 'Tis true, but it's still built on solid foundations of Asylum and City. And relating to comics talk, technically it applies only to mainstream longrunners - but Vertigo had only Hellblazer with multiple writers as far as I know, and pretty much everything else was by single author with definitive end.
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Nov 28, 2014 15:14
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Onmi posted:Here is the harsh reality of liking comics. As editors change and writers shift from book to book, things you find charming and likable about a character are going to be lost to the miasma of time, eventually leading to people who grew up with what you did becoming writers and trying to bring about those 'glory days' Read: Johns, Geoff. A man who once theorized "Superboy is a clone of Lex Luthor and Superman" and was told "Nope" then he became a writer and lo and behold... The flipside, or the silver lining as it were, is that nothing ever has to be set in stone. Comics continuity and canon is prone to flux, and no hero and no story will ever remain forever engrained in the lexicon. Not even origin stories are sacred--the flux that constantly changes the status quo produces both absolute crap and absolute gold. It's a part of the fluid mythology of comics, and part of the fun too. You can criticize the bad poo poo or laugh at it, you can cheer the good poo poo. Look at Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman's reboot by Azarello for the new 52 is AMAZING. Absolutely stellar work, the best Wonder Woman has been in years, maybe even the best ever, and it's a perfect summary of everything she should be--mythic, kick-rear end, and compassionate. It's a super pro-woman story without being in your face, or featuring "girl power" or any trite nonsense, but instead is just a good loving story that primarily features women as the movers of the plot (and tons of Greek gods as well). But Azarello's Wonder Woman couldn't have existed a few years ago, because WW's status quo was different. So it goes both ways--sometimes radical changes are exactly what you need to really bring out a character's true potential. I think I'm the only one who finds Superboy Prime really funny
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Nov 28, 2014 16:56
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Superboy Prime is the one that punched the universe, right?
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Nov 28, 2014 17:08
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I enjoy some of the ideas behind comics, but the stuff mentioned above is why I have never, ever wanted to actually read them. The huge numbers of authors, the inability to bring anyone's story to a conclusion, etc all just makes for really, really muddy writing.
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Nov 28, 2014 17:23
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Yeah, I've only read the comics that I've been recommended as really good stories. Everything else I know about them is just hearsay from snippets on TVTropes or other forums. Stuff like Frank Miller's Batman beating up thugs, dousing them with bleach, setting them on fire, and then having sex with Black Canary nearby while the guys burn to death.  Oh, and he beats them up while they're on fire and makes these weird comments towards them, calling them "sweetheart" and stuff.
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Nov 28, 2014 17:31
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Well, it's been established that Frank 'Whores' Miller is a really weird person with terrible opinions, so that's not much of a surprise.
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Nov 28, 2014 17:33
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Night10194 posted:I enjoy some of the ideas behind comics, but the stuff mentioned above is why I have never, ever wanted to actually read them. The huge numbers of authors, the inability to bring anyone's story to a conclusion, etc all just makes for really, really muddy writing. I sort of get you there, but at the same time, it's interesting to see what writers do with a run, and it's sometimes a fun exercise to think "What would X writer do with this?" Some folks like Grimdark McViolentMan Batman, some folks like Quiet Thoughtful Batman, and... Well, since it's gone on so long, there's plenty of Batman to go around. Knowing what kind of stories you like helps. Hell, we see the same thing with Dredd. I honestly don't understand the folks who liked the modern Dredd film. Megacity doesn't look anywhere near as cool as it should, or as highly populated as it should, the plot was... Really, Ma-Ma and Slo-Mo? Whaddya think we are, god-drat 12? But folks do like it, because they see Dredd as this violent, grim figure of justice. Whereas I grew up with Necropolis, Judge Cal, America, and all those stories that showed Dredd's softer side, and the more nuanced writing. Folks took away different things from the comics, and y'know what? That's interesting and cool. Me, I'll wait for someone to make a Mega-City that's bright and shining most places, but filled with scum, Smokatoriums, and Boing Palaces. But there are some series that mostly have single writers, like Powers, the Invisibles, or Sandman, and these have their own problems: Namely, do you rate the author? (I'm still waiting for a Zero Girl movie. It may never happen, but... I live in hope)
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Nov 28, 2014 17:37
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JamieTheD posted:I sort of get you there, but at the same time, it's interesting to see what writers do with a run, and it's sometimes a fun exercise to think "What would X writer do with this?" Some folks like Grimdark McViolentMan Batman, some folks like Quiet Thoughtful Batman, and... Well, since it's gone on so long, there's plenty of Batman to go around. Knowing what kind of stories you like helps. Hell, we see the same thing with Dredd. Actually the new Dredd was sweet and also cool, sicknasty rad to the max so I guess I don't really get...wait, are you saying you have issues with Grant Morrison's Invisibles? Hrmmmmmmmmmmmm Night10194 posted:Well, it's been established that Frank 'Whores' Miller is a really weird person with terrible opinions, so that's not much of a surprise. Frank Miller has lost his goddamn mind, but strangely, the Dark Knight Returns is STILL a really amazing book. It's just as good as it was when it came out.
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Nov 28, 2014 17:50
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Actually the new Dredd was sweet and also cool, sicknasty rad to the max so I guess I don't really get...wait, are you saying you have issues with Grant Morrison's Invisibles? Hrmmmmmmmmmmmm Hehe, actually, Invisibles is one of my favourite series by Grant Morrison, but I know to some folks, it's an acquired taste. The one I'm actually not so hot on was the second half of Powers. But like I said, tastes differ, and that's cool and interesting!  ...Except you scum who liked "Cyan" Rogue Trooper, you can all buuuuuuuuuuuurnnnnnn... Hssssss... JamieTheD fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 18:05
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I liked the new Dredd because it was an interesting action film with cool setpieces and characters that were fun to watch. I've never read the Dredd comics, though I know they were originally a satire of authoritarianism and Thatcherite Britain, right?
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Nov 28, 2014 18:07
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Night10194 posted:I liked the new Dredd because it was an interesting action film with cool setpieces and characters that were fun to watch. I've never read the Dredd comics, though I know they were originally a satire of authoritarianism and Thatcherite Britain, right? Basically, yeah. It's weird that it's a rather British series, but has only ever been made into film by Americans, starring Americans. I think we can all agree that the new Dredd is miles ahead of the Stallone one.
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Nov 28, 2014 18:09
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Night10194 posted:I liked the new Dredd because it was an interesting action film with cool setpieces and characters that were fun to watch. I've never read the Dredd comics, though I know they were originally a satire of authoritarianism and Thatcherite Britain, right? (EDIT: ^^^ Nope!  Also, have you seen our film industry? It's... A thing. Yeah. A thing...)It certainly started that way, but it then expanded to a lot of other things, examinations of authoritarianism in general, persecution, free market capitalism, and it always had elements of "What strange things will folks do to entertain themselves when most of their basic needs are provided for, and they can't find work?" But I think I'd better stop derailing here. We're here for The Bat, not for The Law.
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Nov 28, 2014 18:10
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Right, so how about that psychological warfare? Bats are cute, fuzzy and completely harmless little things. They got a lot of bad rep in the middle ages but I was always a bit surprised when I found out that Batman (whom I really only knew from the Clooney movies) is usually portrayed as seriously intimidating, and even that I attributed it to the "man" part. In short - why bats? And yeah, I know there's an origin story somewhere in there, but I mean from an author/reader's perspective.
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Nov 28, 2014 18:21
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I think it's just a combination of the fact that they're nocturnal and that it's sort of tradition by now. Criminals aren't scared of bats, they're scared of Bats.
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Nov 28, 2014 18:27
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anilEhilated posted:Right, so how about that psychological warfare? Bats are cute, fuzzy and completely harmless little things. They got a lot of bad rep in the middle ages but I was always a bit surprised when I found out that Batman (whom I really only knew from the Clooney movies) is usually portrayed as seriously intimidating, and even that I attributed it to the "man" part. If a bat flies into your bedroom in the middle of the night, cute is not the word you'll use to describe the nigh-invisible screaming furball flying around somewhere above your head. (Seriously, I thought bats are supposed to be mostly silent, at least in human-audible frequencies, but that jerk was loud as gently caress)
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Nov 28, 2014 18:29
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my dad posted:If a bat flies into your bedroom in the middle of the night, cute is not the word you'll use to describe the nigh-invisible screaming furball flying around somewhere above your head. (Seriously, I thought bats are supposed to be mostly silent, at least in human-audible frequencies, but that jerk was loud as gently caress)
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Nov 28, 2014 18:31
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He's also insane. Properly loving mental. Dude looks and acts more like a supervillain than half of his enemies.
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Nov 28, 2014 18:32
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anilEhilated posted:Well, we had bats in the house where I grew up and this did happen to me. It's scary until you figure it out and catch it, I guess. I know I got to pet a couple of bats that wondered in like this when I was a kid, that probably skews my view. I've recently watched some chiropterologists catch and ring a pipistrelle(see below) and even got to touch it. That fur's incedibly soft and fuzzy  . 
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Nov 28, 2014 18:55
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For the next 44 hours, Arkham Asylum, City and Origins are 75% off on Steam.
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Nov 28, 2014 23:24
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Or is it Sputnik posted:For the next 44 hours, Arkham Asylum, City and Origins are 75% off on Steam. Sweet! Thanks for the heads up.
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Nov 28, 2014 23:27
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Gideon020 posted:You're going to do Arkham Origins? I heard that it was lackluster compared to Asylum and City. It's not bad at all. The problem is it was compared to City rather than reviewed on its own merits. If there was no AC, then AO would have gotten 20% higher ratings pretty easily. It's AC with a more detailed crime scene mode and a story that I liked more.
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Nov 28, 2014 23:29
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Combat mechanics, area design, sidequests and level-up systems are worse than AC. It's a decent game, just not as good.
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Nov 28, 2014 23:47
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anilEhilated posted:It's scary until you figure it out and catch it, I guess. Much like Batman. Except you'll never catch Batman :smugbatman:
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Nov 29, 2014 00:36
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Re: Bats, I live in area where we have many of them, most nights you'll see them flying in the streets, going from tree to tree. And even then, those fuckers scare me half the time, even if I'm well aware that they won't crash into me due to their submarine-like senses. Guess I'm part of the superstitious and cowardly lot.  And for good Batman comics, it's okay if you guys don't want to read the regular series. That's what mini-series and one-shots are for! In fact, I'd recommend that people that like the LP read the Legends of the Dark Knight series, which is composed of self-contained 3-4 chapters arcs. You may want to at least read Venom (where Batman first deals with that drug) and Prey (Hugo Strange being all kinds of crazy and hunting Batman). Edit: I mean, how can you see this cover, and not want to know how the story goes? 
Kal-L fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Nov 29, 2014 |
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Nov 29, 2014 01:24
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BottledBodhisvata posted:The flipside, or the silver lining as it were, is that nothing ever has to be set in stone. Comics continuity and canon is prone to flux, and no hero and no story will ever remain forever engrained in the lexicon. Not even origin stories are sacred--the flux that constantly changes the status quo produces both absolute crap and absolute gold. It's a part of the fluid mythology of comics, and part of the fun too. You can criticize the bad poo poo or laugh at it, you can cheer the good poo poo. Look at Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman's reboot by Azarello for the new 52 is AMAZING. Absolutely stellar work, the best Wonder Woman has been in years, maybe even the best ever, and it's a perfect summary of everything she should be--mythic, kick-rear end, and compassionate. It's a super pro-woman story without being in your face, or featuring "girl power" or any trite nonsense, but instead is just a good loving story that primarily features women as the movers of the plot (and tons of Greek gods as well). Oh look, Azarello's Wonder Woman was wonderful, less wonderful is people still clamoring that the character has 'Never had a definitive run' when I can think of a few, but they're all thrown out for one reason or another. It bugs the poo poo out of me because I really like Wonder Woman, she hates necks and does awesome things and is still very human. I mean granted every now and then you get someone like Johns who REALLY doesn't get her, but I've always liked her as a character. I wasn't necessarily referring to reboots. Like one of my favourite books growing up was Ron Marz's Green Lantern, and when he switched off with Judd Winnick it became very obvious, characters were cycled out, a new status quo was set up, the characters personality changed. And then swap to Ben Raab, again very noticable. And when Marz came back to conclude it, all the stuff I liked was back in again. Because writers carry the aura of writing their stories, not necessarily the story of say... Batman. And unfortunatly, that's the breaks with mainstream western comics. Designed to be endless, written by an ever changing cast.
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Nov 29, 2014 01:56
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Onmi posted:And unfortunatly, that's the breaks with mainstream western comics. Designed to be endless, written by an ever changing cast. Eh, they're endless in the sense that the main character will keep on going. But that's why you gotta look at it at how the different creative teams work on them. Take Grant Morrison's run where he introduces Damian Wayne, the Black Glove, the death of Bruce and having Dick take over, the return of Bruce and Batman, Inc., it was quite a ride, but it had a definitive "end". But that's the breaks when you're writing a character as popular as Batman: at the end, you gotta make sure you return the toys back in the box, so others can use them. The Arkham videogames are cool, but they too will "end" their arc. That doesn't mean that there won't be any more Batman videogames, and I'm ok with that.
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Nov 29, 2014 02:17
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Batman gonna die in Arkham Knight. He dies in all the games, unless you are just that damned good.
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Nov 29, 2014 02:40
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A new Arkham City easter egg was discovered earlier this month, possibly hinted at by Rocksteady itself via Youtube. If you want to see it, set your PC clock to December 13, 2004, and visit Calendar Man. If you want the full explanation, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=temF1OFCIPg Rocksteady Studios was founded on that day.
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Nov 29, 2014 05:09
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Onmi posted:Oh look, Azarello's Wonder Woman was wonderful, less wonderful is people still clamoring that the character has 'Never had a definitive run' when I can think of a few, but they're all thrown out for one reason or another. It bugs the poo poo out of me because I really like Wonder Woman, she hates necks and does awesome things and is still very human. I mean granted every now and then you get someone like Johns who REALLY doesn't get her, but I've always liked her as a character. Wonder Woman has always gotten a bad rep because despite tons of awesome comics runs, the mainstream audience really only remembers her from the TV show. They are designed to be endless, but there's been like half a dozen "endings" to every comic that you could pick as canon. I know the Incredible Hulk and Wolverine, to name a Marvel example, have gotten a few "ending" comics for their characters, as "what-ifs". Batman has had his fair share, All Star Superman is basically "The last Superman story" and so on. I mean, do you really want comics to end? I like that the characters keep having new and crazy adventures. I like how we still manage to tell new stories with the same characters and they can be just as fresh as any other.
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Nov 29, 2014 05:26
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Wonder Woman has always gotten a bad rep because despite tons of awesome comics runs, the mainstream audience really only remembers her from the TV show. Oh goodness no that wasn't my implication at all. I would like them to be consistent is all. I don't mind alternate universes or stories exploring parts of character, but it always bugs me when writers swap and then they inevitable retcon something to be more like their childhood or whatever. But I like comics, not necessarily everything going right now, but thems the breaks.
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Nov 29, 2014 05:40
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I guess One Million is considered "what-if" miniseries, though most people probably forgot the prequel nature of All-Star Superman when it came out something like 10-odd years afterwards.
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Nov 29, 2014 07:09
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So I'm still gonna get a little sidetracked but not by much, this is just a short detour on the way to tracking down the cure. I'll probably have a good chunk of exploration/stuff finding once I finish with this leg of the story and the next one, since it unlocks a good chunk of what I'll need to explore things. Pretty much all of it, actually, but there's still so many things to pick up. Even so I'm still making a lot of progress, more than I was expecting by this point. This challenge map run isn't as impressive as the Survival of the Fittest run, but even so it's not bad for having gotten hit. Ninja Distraction Technique/Polsy - Interview tape: Penguin 3Character bios: Calendar Man Arkham City Stories: Catwoman and Two-Face (2), Calendar Man, Aaron Cash, The Payphone Killer, Black Mask  Combat Challenge: Rooftop Rumble/Polsy with Animated Series Robin
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Nov 29, 2014 13:35
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Onmi posted:Oh goodness no that wasn't my implication at all. I would like them to be consistent is all. I don't mind alternate universes or stories exploring parts of character, but it always bugs me when writers swap and then they inevitable retcon something to be more like their childhood or whatever. But I like comics, not necessarily everything going right now, but thems the breaks. My only real issue with the New 52 was that every issue seemed to have ludicrous collateral damage that never seemed to matter. Like the first I, Vampire issues had the entire city of Boston getting massacred, Swamp Thing had a whole residential block eaten by trees...the price of life in the DC universe was very low. Also now Marvel and DC are getting into weird pissing matches about who has the most "diversity" or whatever and Marvel's like "Well we have a MUSLIM character" and DC is like "We have a TRANS character" and Marvel is like "We made Captain America black!" and the loving Gawker people just can't shut the gently caress up about it despite the fact that all the writers are still white people anyway and everyone's like "DC is so out of date they aren't hip like Marvel" and I'm like "NOBODY REMEMBERS APOLLO AND MIDNIGHTER? None of you. None of you remember the best couple in DC besides maybe Green Arrow and Black Canary, really, fine." I guess what I'm trying to say is I want an Apollo and Midnighter video game. BottledBodhisvata fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Nov 29, 2014 |
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Nov 29, 2014 15:18
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BottledBodhisvata posted:I guess what I'm trying to say is I want an Apollo and Midnighter video game. Also, I realize Scruffy it was hypothetical, but no, you really should never see a 'Real' Ninja. Mostly because the most effective method of stealth is dressing as an utterly normal person. Blah blah cultural stage play stage hands in all black, blah blah super humans cooler than average peasent folk who sat around drinking tea, listening in on conversation using mostly farm tools. Also, worth pointing out about the Penguin for the people who don't read comics and get it... he isn't insane... I mean he has his issues, but he's not an Arkham criminal, he's a Blackgate one. So his presence here is less "We threw him in Arkham City" and more, again going back to Stranges obsession with being a better Batman than Batman, "I bet I can cure Penguin." which... I've not played City, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was planned to be around the Iceberg Lounge on purpose JUST because Strange knew Penguin wouldn't leave.
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Nov 29, 2014 16:00
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Onmi posted:Also, worth pointing out about the Penguin for the people who don't read comics and get it... he isn't insane... I mean he has his issues, but he's not an Arkham criminal, he's a Blackgate one. So his presence here is less "We threw him in Arkham City" and more, again going back to Stranges obsession with being a better Batman than Batman, "I bet I can cure Penguin." which... I've not played City, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was planned to be around the Iceberg Lounge on purpose JUST because Strange knew Penguin wouldn't leave. A number of Batman's villains aren't insane, for that matter. Penguin, Catwoman, arguably Scarecrow, Mr. Freeze, etc. It's just that a number of them are only really able to be safely stored in Arkham Asylum because the other holding facilities don't have access to the equipment to keep them on hand. Penguin and Catwoman are usually kept in Blackgate, though, as I recall. And that's been burned down. What I really want to know, though, is where are all of the (non-supervillain) female prisoners in Arkham City? I can understand throwing the Gotham Sirens in there, since the other super criminals are present, but what about the female mental patients and prisoners? Does Strange have them somewhere else?
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Nov 29, 2014 16:44
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:What I really want to know, though, is where are all of the (non-supervillain) female prisoners in Arkham City? I can understand throwing the Gotham Sirens in there, since the other super criminals are present, but what about the female mental patients and prisoners? Does Strange have them somewhere else? Considering how people reacted to Catwoman being in the game and the treatment of her, I suspect that Rocksteady just wanted to avoid any issue in that regard and just have the female prisoners either being conspicuously absent or you are to assume they are there, but they aren't henchmen so they don't go out onto the streets. Kind of like Outlast basically.
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Nov 29, 2014 16:56
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Also now Marvel and DC are getting into weird pissing matches about who has the most "diversity" or whatever and Marvel's like "Well we have a MUSLIM character" and DC is like "We have a TRANS character" and Marvel is like "We made Captain America black!" and the loving Gawker people just can't shut the gently caress up about it despite the fact that all the writers are still white people anyway and everyone's like "DC is so out of date they aren't hip like Marvel" and I'm like "NOBODY REMEMBERS APOLLO AND MIDNIGHTER? None of you. None of you remember the best couple in DC besides maybe Green Arrow and Black Canary, really, fine." Comic characters being more diverse than their creative teams is not something I like, and I too wish they started hiring more female/lgbt/non-white creatives for their books. Apollo, Midnighter, and the rest of The Authority were also awesome. I think some dude proposed a JLA/Authority crossover where Midnighter would have fought Batman, then when the teams were saying goodbyes, he would've kissed him. Penguin might not be as crazy as the Joker or Two-Face, but he too has issues: an unhealthy fixation with the Waynes, hoarding all kinds of stuff, and a Napoleon complex a mile wide. Edit: Found this strip from Penny Arcade that perfectly describes the LP so far:  The third panel looks like nice new avatar. Kal-L fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Nov 29, 2014 |
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Nov 29, 2014 16:57
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BottledBodhisvata posted:My only real issue with the New 52 was that every issue seemed to have ludicrous collateral damage that never seemed to matter. Like the first I, Vampire issues had the entire city of Boston getting massacred, Swamp Thing had a whole residential block eaten by trees...the price of life in the DC universe was very low. Also now Marvel and DC are getting into weird pissing matches about who has the most "diversity" or whatever and Marvel's like "Well we have a MUSLIM character" and DC is like "We have a TRANS character" and Marvel is like "We made Captain America black!" and the loving Gawker people just can't shut the gently caress up about it despite the fact that all the writers are still white people anyway and everyone's like "DC is so out of date they aren't hip like Marvel" and I'm like "NOBODY REMEMBERS APOLLO AND MIDNIGHTER? None of you. None of you remember the best couple in DC besides maybe Green Arrow and Black Canary, really, fine." DC's newest trans is also third, at least explicitly. Nobody remembers Wanda or Fanny...
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Nov 29, 2014 17:49
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"Where are my smokes, I thought I told you to go get me some?" "THE BAT'S HERE!" is probably the best excuse/way to get out of explaining something any thug has ever thought of. 
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Nov 29, 2014 18:09
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GuyUpNorth posted:DC's newest trans is also third, at least explicitly. Nobody remembers Wanda or Fanny... People who get into pissing matches about things like that on the Internet probably haven't read Sandman.
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Nov 29, 2014 18:26
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