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Tomn posted:Wheeeelp, looks like soup-straining had a point! Gee, who would have thought that waxing mean ol' Mr. Miyagi's car had practical applications? +1 for Plan Tomn
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Dec 4, 2014 22:19
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| # ? May 11, 2024 14:12 |
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Edited voted and changed.
OfChristandMen fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 22:21
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A. Agree. 2. As to your household slaves.... H. Pay them a wage as if they were servants, they are free when they buy themselves. This will take many years. 4. As to your nine cattle workers... N. Pay them a wage as if they were servants, they are free when they buy themselves. This will take many years. 5. As to the two slaves digging clay for Lefkandi... R. Free them, work something out with Lefkandi. 6. As to your cook, Sabium... X. W., AND pay her years of back wages 7. Do you wish to send a message, along freeing your slaves? F. I let it be known that I oppose hereditary slavery, but not debt slavery. Edit: Changed votes in later post Aades fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 22:23
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Diog|Cell: Someone please post no answers for 4 hours min, busy, sorry Answers will come soonish.
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Dec 4, 2014 22:25
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reposting for new page:Tomn posted:5. Y: Ask her to teach one of our servants how to cook as well as she does, and promise her that when this is done, we will free her and pay her way back to Baitel. Gives her a goal to work towards, lets us keep the food, and teaches a new servant valuable and interesting new skills. Goodo all around! Diogines posted:She has taught as much of her skills as she can to your other household slaves but the woman apparently has immense natural talent for cooking and what she makes is just better. You paid top
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Dec 4, 2014 22:26
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HiHo ChiRho posted:1. As to Ishamal's request... This
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Dec 4, 2014 22:31
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Tomn posted:Wheeeelp, looks like soup-straining had a point! Gee, who would have thought that waxing mean ol' Mr. Miyagi's car had practical applications? Makes sense to me. +1 Tomn Also I think you just answered your own question from before. How will we deal with slavery? Capitalism!
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Dec 4, 2014 22:32
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1.A 2-4. Pay them standard, market wages. If they want to buy their freedom, let them. If they waste their money, let them be. 5.Y, Arrange a 'Top Chef' competition so that our slave can find a person who has the same natural talent for cooking. When she does, hire them, train them, and when they are as good or better, free her and send her to Baitel with a portion of her back wages. 6. Don't say a thing. Lead by example. ShotgunWillie fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 22:34
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1. A 2. H 3. N 4. S. Take part of the profit we get from him, pay them more, let them buy their freedom. 5. W. 6. A.
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Dec 4, 2014 22:34
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1. As to Ishamal's request... A. Agree. B. Ask him to "empty the extra water from your well", expending [???] instead of saving it. C. Insist on learning more control instead. Ishamal says of that "I have been teaching you such for years. You have actually been making good progress at it, but it takes time. You are running into problems now and it will only get worse." Still, insist. You believe you can somehow learn it faster.(**) D. Refuse. E. Something else. Fill in. Ask Ishamal if deepening the well is a natural side effect of actually using [???] If yes. E. Something else. We practice our cloaking powers. While draining our [???] and hopefully deepening our well. if no A. 2. As to your household slaves.... H. Pay them a wage as if they were servants, they are free when they buy themselves. This will take many years. They are ofcourse welcome to stay on with us as hired servants afterwards. 3. As to your nine cattle workers... N. Pay them a wage as if they were servants, they are free when they buy themselves. This will take many years. It's a fair deal. 4. As to the two slaves digging clay for Lefkandi... 4. S: Pay the slaves a wage slightly below market average. When they've accumulated as much silver as they cost, free them. Convince Lefkandi that we will renew the deal when they are free by using the money to buy new slaves to offer the same deal. Seriously, this allows us to free slaves and KEEP freeing slaves at a rate that still brings in a moderate profit. Lefkandi's happy, he still has his clay diggers and his terms haven't changed, the slaves are happy, the slaves we buy and free in the future will be happy, and all is well with the world. Do it! Stolen from Tomn. 5. As to your cook, Sabium... Y. Free her and arrange a marriage for her in Baitel. Surprise Baitel trip! 6. Do you wish to send a message, along freeing your slaves? A. No.
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Dec 4, 2014 22:41
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Ouroborus posted:Edmund Burke did not, correct, but that is beside the point. You were saying we shouldn't try changing stuff at all because our 2014 mindset is still flawed. Which unless I've misunderstood your intent is a logical fallacy. No, my intent was to ask "How exactly DO you intend to solve this stuff without loving up free will issues something fierce?" Because it's a pretty good illustration of what the Melachim were worried about, I think - we blame the Melachim for not stopping terrible things like that because they're worried it'll mess up their precious free will, but how exactly would WE fix the issue without causing exactly that? Charging in roaring and throwing our metaphysical weight around to solve complex issues out of the best of intentions seems like it would cause exactly the kind of situation that the Melachim fear - thus lending credence to their worries. Pladdicus posted:I absolutely do! But I also see the ways in which us not being as strong as we can to face the horrible things that might come to this world might end up horrifying down the line. I worry about Norc armies and the inner-kingdoms, of crazy evil monsters calling themselves gods. I look at Tudiya running away from our old home in fear and I wonder if it has to be that way. I worry that if Ishamal trains us, something will happen before we're ready, where we might have been if we didn't! I don't reeeally want to turn this into a huge running debate, especially now that the update is over, so I'll make this as short as I can: I worry, too. I worry that if Enkidel were to say that he is the only person who knows what to do to solve the problems of the people, that he alone has the judgment necessary to steer the ship of state, that he alone can be trusted to manage the power required to protect the people, that he alone has the will to do what is necessary, he is taking the first step down a very dark and well-known road paved with the best of intentions and ending only in tears. After all, if we don't trust the judgment of divine beings that see all and know much, why would we ever trust the judgment of merely mortal men who know nothing of our powers? And if nobody's judgment can be trusted, where does that leave us and free will? Leaving those undertones aside, it's not even necessarily true. We know nothing of what the Melachim are doing in the background, or the fine details of how they calculate the Balance, or even what relationship they have with the demons, or indeed the demons with the running of the world. Seems like "Well, I can't see the invisible god-beings doing anything about the world's problems!" is a pretty flimsy support on which to say "They're not doing anything, gently caress them." It's clear they DO love humanity and DO want to keep it preserved, and the Trio in particular promised Zepa himself they'd look after Zepath - surely they'd be doing SOMETHING if humanity was badly threatened, even if we can't see it? bonus hole boy posted:reposting for new page: Oh, whoops, missed that part of the update. DISREGARD THE ABOVE, I like Ralith's better. [b] 5. Y: Learn how to cook from the cook, then free her and send her to Baitel. Tomn fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 22:41
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1. A 2-4. 5. Y - Study under her until we are an equally skilled cook, then pay her way back to Baitel. 6. e: changed vote for 6 e: changed vote in a future post for 2-4 and 6 Ralith fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 22:42
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1. A 2. G, free them now. 3. L, free them now. 4. R, freeeeedom. 5. X, freeeeeeedom plus back wages. 6. P, try to convince Tudiya of N (10 year Jubilee via Zepathan superiority) Goddamn, are you goons seriously so tight fisted you can't just free your slaves? We just made a ton of bank, besides the bunch we already have. drat y'all are cheap.
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Dec 4, 2014 22:45
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1: A 2: G 3: L 4: Plan Tomn. 5: Y, as X but arrange a Master Chef contest, hire the winner as a servant and have Sabium train them until the next ride to Baitel leaves from Zepath. 6: Plan Tomn. Basically, free the slaves we own and pay them wages and backwages for their years of servitude. Convince Lefkandi of Plan Tomn so we can start getting the Emancipation Train rolling without upsetting social order.
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Dec 4, 2014 22:48
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Yeah! Plan Top Chef!
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Dec 4, 2014 22:52
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A. Agree. 2. As to your household slaves.... H. Pay them a wage as if they were servants, they are free when they buy themselves. This will take many years. 3. As to your nine cattle workers... N. Pay them a wage as if they were servants, they are free when they buy themselves. This will take many years. 4. As to the two slaves digging clay for Lefkandi... Q. Keep them as slaves. 5. As to your cook, Sabium... Y. Something else. Fill in. Pay her as if she was a top notch servant. She can buy her own freedom and passage to Baitel. Dedeuct what she would have been paid in back wages off of her buy-price, if it is unrealistically high. When she is close to buying her freedom, offer to arrange a marriage for her in Baitel or Zepath (where we'd likely have more pull) if she wishes. 6. Do you wish to send a message, along freeing your slaves? H. Rhetoric Knowledge Bonus! As a former slave, I pin my anti-slavery views on the fact I was once enslaved. I don't bring up El, I base this view on my personal circumstances, rather than claiming special knowledge of the divine or the teachings of Labaras. If I am successful, social elites will be less upset. Scrapped because Diogenese poo poo all over my vote: Diogines posted:I will get to all questions in a few hours when I get home and also ask the Capybaras for a report on your finances. Cornuto fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 22:53
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Ishamal, what are you thoughts on emptying the extra water, so to speak. Could we do this bit by bit over the next little while to keep my strength roughly where it is? Abstaining on 1. for now 2.H Let a man buy his own freedom. 3.N See above. I'd also settle for a middle ground option. 4.Q Lefkandi's business. 5.Y Start paying her equal to a worker of her wage, when she has enough she can free herself/travel to Baitel, etc. Set this up in a way that doesn't take 8 million years. Maybe a year or so. 6.P "Father. I'm not sure I agree with the 50 year jubilee anymore. It feels like it was created in a time where man lived much longer, longer than they do now and as such, how could it be intended a man might serve his entire life as a slave if he were enslaved shortly after the jubilee? Whether it be by will of El or otherwise, I think we should have a jubilee every ten years or Let no man serve a slave longer than ten years. and also we've been dealing with Indor
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Dec 4, 2014 22:53
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FoxTerrier posted:Goddamn, are you goons seriously so tight fisted you can't just free your slaves? We just made a ton of bank, besides the bunch we already have. drat y'all are cheap. With S, at least, that poo poo's SUSTAINABLE. It's basically an infinite slave emancipator that requires no further input from us beyond a decrease in profits. Break a man's chains, and you free a single slave. Allow a man to pay back his slave cost, and you free as many slaves as it takes to last out Lefkandi's lifespan - or more, if the squirrely little guy trains an apprentice or two or produces a heir. With regards to the other slaves, I think going with a wage system makes their emancipation more acceptable to other Zepathans - and thus, more likely to be emulated. If that crazy Enkidel guy just ups and frees all his slaves, well, that's drat pious of him but what, do I look like I'm made of money? But if he pays them a wage instead and frees them over time, weeeell, I guess I might be able to fit that into the budget, and I still get the labor of the slaves for a time and he IS a pretty cool dude - maybe he's on to something. I'm for freeing the cook outright, though, because I reckon the poor girl's paid her dues and more by this point in sheer shell-shocked nerves.
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Dec 4, 2014 22:56
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Just posting to say there are at least a few of us who watch the thread but don't post much. Some of us have been watching from the start. This thread is a daily habit, I read it every morning when I get up. Lurkers love you too, Diog! <3
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Dec 4, 2014 23:00
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Tomn posted:Wheeeelp, looks like soup-straining had a point! Gee, who would have thought that waxing mean ol' Mr. Miyagi's car had practical applications? Diog proved this plan to be unfeasible, cancel this vote. Kristopher fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 23:01
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So, it is confirmed, if we hold our breath too long we will become hungerstronk!
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Dec 4, 2014 23:01
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A HN S - Pay them a wage. Peruse the markets and press on our friends for a new, fairly local and talented cook. We know a lot of good merchants, if we really, really look and we abuse all of our contacts, we should be able to find somebody. Pay over the odds if needs be. Get cook-slave to teach them for 6 months while we arrange things, and then: Y + XW - Send her home with enough money to keep her well, if not rich, and see if we can get a marriage arranged for her. A - No. Edit: By wages I mean so they can free themselves in around 5 years. I love the mighty cook idea, but we can't cook at our own feasts. It just wouldn't work. 
Nettle Soup fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 23:01
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Tomn posted:I don't reeeally want to turn this into a huge running debate, especially now that the update is over, so I'll make this as short as I can: I worry, too. I worry that if Enkidel were to say that he is the only person who knows what to do to solve the problems of the people, that he alone has the judgment necessary to steer the ship of state, that he alone can be trusted to manage the power required to protect the people, that he alone has the will to do what is necessary, he is taking the first step down a very dark and well-known road paved with the best of intentions and ending only in tears. After all, if we don't trust the judgment of divine beings that see all and know much, why would we ever trust the judgment of merely mortal men who know nothing of our powers? And if nobody's judgment can be trusted, where does that leave us and free will?  I don't think he does, but I think I trust myself more than I trust any one group. That includes Ish's posse. We'd trust what makes sense, as we always have. If we can't trust ourselves to do that, why do we do anything? Are we just going to lockstep with everyone? Course not. We'll exercise our judgement, power just means we have more options. And since the common sense our 'wise council' says "Well we don't like slaves but...naturaal orrddeeeerrr" then that's pretty dumb council to have! It's also the one that says Ishamal posted:Ishamal says "I have long wondered why the innocent suffer and I am not the first to wonder." Ishamal's tone sounds a bit... pained? "I wish I had answers for you boy, it is not my place to say. You wish to know why a legion of the Melachim did not descend upon Ibleam and save it? There are reasons, good reasons, but those secrets are not mine to share and they would ring hollow and empty in the ears of the widows and orphans who survived."  He's been pretty forthcoming so far!
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Dec 4, 2014 23:02
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Tomn posted:I'm for freeing the cook outright, though, because I reckon the poor girl's paid her dues and more by this point in sheer shell-shocked nerves. I'm sure a lot of our slaves have sobstories, so why this but not free all of them? A lot of them have served us a long rear end time. (not picking on you I swear!)
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Dec 4, 2014 23:03
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1. A 2. F 3. K 4. Q 5. T
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Dec 4, 2014 23:04
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We should get more slaves! Gotta slave 'em all!
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Dec 4, 2014 23:04
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Tomn posted:With S, at least, that poo poo's SUSTAINABLE. It's basically an infinite slave emancipator that requires no further input from us beyond a decrease in profits. Break a man's chains, and you free a single slave. Allow a man to pay back his slave cost, and you free as many slaves as it takes to last out Lefkandi's lifespan - or more, if the squirrely little guy trains an apprentice or two or produces a heir. It's not about sustainability right now though, it's about making a point while the spotlight is on us and potentially changing the way Zepath thinks of slavery. Possibly even rigging it so the Jubilee happens more often (which is the best option out of many right now, IMHO). The elite may think it's crazy, but, as Diog pointed out, the young are watching ~*~ And the children are our future~*~
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Dec 4, 2014 23:05
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FoxTerrier posted:It's not about sustainability right now though, it's about making a point while the spotlight is on us and potentially changing the way Zepath thinks of slavery. Possibly even rigging it so the Jubilee happens more often (which is the best option out of many right now, IMHO). also not enslaving people because they're having a rough go. that's also the future. and or making people suffer poo poo conditions a 'citizen' wouldn't for no pay because lolprofits. those would be two good future things.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:07
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1. A - Okay, sure, if you think it's best. Thank you for explaining what the hell, because I did not know what the hell. 2. G 3. L 4. R 5. Y: Become her student personally, learning all we can about cooking from her. Then, X. 6. H. What do you mean this isn't Mass Effect? A note on our cook training a replacement: No one who might cook for us would ever be a better cook than ourselves, if we dedicate ourselves to the task. Enkidel has an incredible natural aptitude for all things, similar to how Blooded men are known to simply be better. Servants she has attempted to teach do not approach Sabium's skill, and we will not find among those who would answer a cooking challenge one who can. The only person who can cook at a skill to match our hunger is ourselves. We must take this challenge personally.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:08
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Pladdicus posted:also not enslaving people because they're having a rough go. that's also the future. I agree full emancipation is a good long term goal, but I'm worried if we pushed for it now we'd just end up with serfdom like in the interior. Trying to up the Jubilee date while simultaneously investing in social welfare seems like the best long, long term way to actually eliminate slavery and serfdom IMHO. Debatable though I know.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:10
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How exactly are we going to cook at our own feasts? Make everything in advance and eat it cold? What?
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Dec 4, 2014 23:11
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Also if we want to study cooking, why don't we study for free with Jalitha (you know, the BEST cook in the world, who is also probably going to die fairly soon and wants to spend time with her baby) rather than drag out this woman's enslavement?
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Dec 4, 2014 23:12
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We need to ask Ishamal about the message that's slowly deciphering itself, and also the second gold level of [???] before we accept the 'well deepening'. Ask Ish, "Will the deepening of the well affect any other passive powers the 'water' might give me, besides the physical ones?"
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Dec 4, 2014 23:12
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FoxTerrier posted:I agree full emancipation is a good long term goal, but I'm worried if we pushed for it now we'd just end up with serfdom like in the interior. Trying to up the Jubilee date while simultaneously investing in social welfare seems like the best long, long term way to actually eliminate slavery and serfdom IMHO. Debatable though I know. Well yeah no I was agreeing with you haha. Neraren posted:We need to ask Ishamal about the message that's slowly deciphering itself, and also the second gold level of [???] before we accept the 'well deepening'. Both FoxTerrier posted:Also if we want to study cooking, why don't we study for free with Jalitha (you know, the BEST cook in the world, who is also probably going to die fairly soon and wants to spend time with her baby) rather than drag out this woman's enslavement? but...feasts
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Dec 4, 2014 23:14
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Nettle Soup posted:How exactly are we going to cook at our own feasts? Make everything in advance and eat it cold? What? Some dishes should be served cold. But we could prepare the main course beforehand and just keep it warm until people are ready for it. Let the staff handle the less important things. Or hell, maybe we could use our reflexes and strength to make a spectacle of making the food. We'll make food so good the Melachim will worry about mankind's free will again!
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Dec 4, 2014 23:15
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+1 Tomn
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Dec 4, 2014 23:15
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Before I vote on 1. I'd like to ask Ishamal why deepen the well instead of emptying out some water by for example hiding myself as you taught me?. e: got answer later so 1. A 2. G, although I'm less happy about this one because last I recall it'd make Naomi feel unsafe 3. L 4. R 5. X + learn to cook from Jalitha 6. B, although I is pretty tempting Also people that are voting to have our cook train a replacement maybe you should read the loving update jeez. Absum fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 23:18
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+1 plan hihochichiro Also voting that we tear out Isholes throat and puts on his grave. Then eat him
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Dec 4, 2014 23:18
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Nettle Soup posted:How exactly are we going to cook at our own feasts? Make everything in advance and eat it cold? What? Executive chef! We'll invent haute cuisine! Ooh, ooh, can we build a Kitchen Stadium? Pretty please?
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Dec 4, 2014 23:18
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FoxTerrier posted:Also if we want to study cooking, why don't we study for free with Jalitha (you know, the BEST cook in the world, who is also probably going to die fairly soon and wants to spend time with her baby) rather than drag out this woman's enslavement?
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