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Raserys posted:What happened to SerSpooks? he's mike gallego now
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Dec 4, 2014 20:43
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Raserys posted:What happened to SerSpooks? yo
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Dec 4, 2014 20:43
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nite crew is in byob now, how hosed up is that?
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Dec 4, 2014 20:43
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bonus hole boy posted:nite crew is in byob now, how hosed up is that? hosed up
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Dec 4, 2014 20:44
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So is Work Crew, which is a Better Thread.
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Dec 4, 2014 20:45
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Dec 4, 2014 20:45
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Blew my mind too when I first realized.
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Dec 4, 2014 20:48
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What it was super obvious jeez.
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Dec 4, 2014 20:49
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100 HOGS AGREE posted:So is Work Crew, which is a Better Thread. oh friend, no i'm sorry that's just not true
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Dec 4, 2014 20:49
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Tomn posted:I gotta be honest with you, dude - the more you talk, the more you strike me as the sort of tragic hero who realizes only too late that power and good intentions alone do not a better world make.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:00
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HiHo ChiRho posted:There is a massive drop out of duders that post, althought the histogram is slightly misleading as it does not represent the normal people that post less than 100 times in this thread. 50 have posted more than 300 times, only 16 of those over 1200 times in the thread.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:01
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It's called INFLUENCING free will, not controlling it. And when it's done for a specific purpose it's called MANIPULATING free will. I never said robbed us, nor did I claim some big spooky boogiman-esque intention in the people doing it. They want us to be trained with Ish, I assume. Ish wants that to, so we know our choices are (As it seems presented by them) "DEFY THEM ALL! AND BE DESTROYED/CONTAINED POSSIBLY"(A) "BE LOCKED AWAY FROM THE MORTAL WORLD FOREVER" (B) "Go train with Ish for a bit and hold off on magic powers"(C) Which is fair, all of those things can happen, but what are the other consequences of C? Why isn't anyone seriously considering the handicap of not using our magic when not allowed to? Tomn posted:I gotta be honest with you, dude - the more you talk, the more you strike me as the sort of tragic hero who realizes only too late that power and good intentions alone do not a better world make. Tomn posted:I mean, you've straight up declared that "If somebody wants to limit our powers, they lack wisdom and aren't worth listening to." That there is NEVER going to be a negative consequence of any sort from seeking all the power we can. And I really, really hope that the one person you trust with infinite power is God/El, because otherwise good Christ. You would have us sit on a throne as king of the cosmos, surrounded by advisors wiser and more knowledgeable than we but without even a hint of control over our actions. And the only reason you would resent that hint of control is because you are sure that one day, your advisors will suggest that you refrain from action, and you will tell them that despite all their knowledge and wisdom they are wrong, and you will act however you see fit - not them. And you think this is best for everybody. Tomn posted:Do you seriously not see any way in which we might misuse power, intentionally or not? Any way in which our judgment (which you have already declared to be higher and more true than anyone else's) might be flawed? Any way in which the unintended consequences of any given solution to various problems might cause further problems and disasters of greater scope down the line? Do you not worry at all that in the search for monsters to destroy, we may become one greater than all others combined? Tomn posted:Because if you do not...you scare me. You literally, honestly, IRL scare me. That absolute, ironclad certainty and conviction (especially in the absence of critical knowledge!) terrifies me more than anything Team Asherah has ever said or done or voted on. Tomn posted:I take it you don't agree that mercy is never misplaced, and you hold no value in any love Ishamal or the Trio might feel for us? Tomn posted:By that definition, literally any conversation interferes with another person's free will. And no, they didn't say they NEVER interfere with free will, that's the whole drat point of the Balance - they intervene from time to time to prevent greater tragedies from arising! They balance between their desire to help improve people's lives and the need to maintain free will! Tomn posted:Also if you're seriously concerned with the free will effects of a drat conversation I'm amazed you have the audacity to try and convince people never to wage war again, ever. quote:Edmund Burke did not have the power to shape reality itself like wet clay. This isn't about being able to do only a little, this is about being able to do almost anything we can think of - so what do we do? --- this is an internet forum game everyone take a deep breath. I like hypothetical arguments about what to do with a fake mesopotamian superhero as much as the next guy, but the ad hominem are getting out of hand. oh wait I'm late nite crew came in to chill this the gently caress out. Pladdicus fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 21:01
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No attacks on people IRL you mooks
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Dec 4, 2014 21:03
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I find it kind of hilarious that people still didn't realize I was SerSpook.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:05
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It was probably during a period when I wasn't actively reading the thread vOv
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Dec 4, 2014 21:09
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Mike Gallego posted:I find it kind of hilarious that people still didn't realize I was SerSpook. You're supposed to trade up, for better usernames, not worse ones
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Dec 4, 2014 21:13
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lowtax threads are always a monkey's paw.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:15
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bonus hole boy posted:You're supposed to trade up, for better usernames, not worse ones but the allure of 1986 topps baseball cards....
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Dec 4, 2014 21:15
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HiHo ChiRho posted:Time for some My stats are padded by the times I vote counted. At least that's what I'll keep telling myself.  Edit: drat, and Sogol has been fairly inactive lately too. Team Sperg indeed, wear it like badge of honor sir. Task Manager fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 21:37
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Diogines posted:You speak to them of many things and your words flow out in a torrent. [...] You decide that you will agree. You will resume studying under Ishamal and cease trying to use your strange abilities or "magic". The Man: "We will persuade them you are not a danger to the balance." The Woman: "It is likely they will listen to us." The Child: "And not intervene." The Man:"Do not draw conclusions about the nature of the world from what you have seen today." The Woman: "Or what you have learned." The Child: "And share it with none." The Man:"Goodbye." The Woman: "Goodbye ." The Child: " Goodbye." Ishamal walks with you towards the archway, beyond which you see his orchard at night. You step through. [...] You awaken in your bed to a slobbery lick of Snarl's tongue and the smell of breakfast being made. You feel well rested, as if you have awoken from an excellent dream. He is staring at you as if he was waiting for you to wake up. Time to play? Yes. Yes it is. Snarls barks once happily. You, Snarls your children and the other household dogs enjoy the morning. [...] The next week is a flurry of invitations by many of the rich men of Zepath their parties as each wishes to host you in their home and celebrate your great victory. Your Balls relish the attention and however much you are a star in Zepath, you are even a greater one now. You and your Balls enjoy the glory due to you for the great victory won. You sense [???] is slowly increasing(*), but more quickly than it has in the past. You feel stronger. You have stubbed a toe twice. You broke your favorite chair when you only meant to pick it up and move it, crushing it with your hands entirely by accident. While training in the courtyard of your home, your spear escaped your grasp and you accidentally put a small hole in the side of your home. You meet Ishamal in his home for lunch. He says to you "You wish answers? Here is, an answer. I am going to call what Asahel gave you... markers on the side of a well and what you sense within, water. Call it something else if you wish. If it empties, you will become a mindless horror and the only option will be to imprison you. Forever. Well, only One can be said to contemplate in eternities, but short of His intervention, forever. There is no power which will save you." You ask if this is what Asherah is? Ishamal says "No. That is... different. And I will say no more of that. As to you, if your well becomes too full, too turbulent, you won't be able to reliably pull as much water as you wish, the bucket will overflow on it's own or the bucket may spill. You will let the water out in ways you do not intend. There will be floods. Like putting a hole in your wall yesterday. You will also become clumsy. You are always drinking from the well a very, very small amount. This is why you are stronger than others, tougher and more nimble. You don't know how to stop sipping, you do it naturally. You can gain greater control in time, but you are past what you can manage now. We need to deepen your well. This will preserve the water within, though you won't be as strong. A fair bit more than before your hunting trip. I can help you do this, but not if you oppose me as you must relax . It will feel odd, but not hurt. Will you let me?" 1. As to Ishamal's request... A. Agree. B. Ask him to "empty the extra water from your well", expending [???] instead of saving it. C. Insist on learning more control instead. Ishamal says of that "I have been teaching you such for years. You have actually been making good progress at it, but it takes time. You are running into problems now and it will only get worse." Still, insist. You believe you can somehow learn it faster.(**) D. Refuse. E. Something else. Fill in. (**)You have just discovered that your years soup straining, pebble spinning, not breathing and performing other training with Ishamal have allowed you to maintain great strength without being a clumsy oaf! Had you ignored his training, you apparently would have hit this problem long ago. (*)Updated [???] meter posted tonight. We will get to dividing the loot and probably the stone you gave Indor in the next update. Also, what you want to do with yourself and your Balls in the short and long term. Also your mining discovery. There was a renewed desire to free your slaves in the last round of voting, putting it in as a vote. You are wealthy, replacing slaves with merchants is not a trivial cost, though you would still be wealthy. Your wealth is comparable to a well established trader, less than the land owning elites. People you own include: Four household slaves Naomi bought for you, three women, one man. They are treated well and as far as you know, actually love you and your family, and vice versa. Nine others who manage your herds of livestock beyond the city, which is how Naomi has mostly invested the family income. Naomi bought the those slaves. Seven men, two women. Naomi manages them well and the profits are good and reliable. They are treated about the same as any slave who does their labor, Naomi is a bit generous on their time off, clothing and food. Two debt slaves who dig clay for Lefkandi. Lefkandi freed the gambler, he handles Lefkandi's finances and married his sister. That one actually worked out well for everyone in the end? Both are debt slaves and want to be free. Their labor is filthy and highly unpleasant but Lefkandi does not work them all that hard. Sabium. A woman you tore away from everyone and everything she loved in Baitel to bring her masterful culinary skills to your home, for the pleasure and comfort of your guests, mostly merchants, sometimes others, such as your Balls. She is not at all rebellious and serves dutifully, while living a life of quiet desperation. She has taught as much of her skills as she can to your other household slaves but the woman apparently has immense natural talent for cooking and what she makes is just better. You paid top Naomi has no problems at all about owning these slaves, after all, she bought most of them. 2. As to your household slaves.... F. Keep them as slaves. G. Free them, hire them as servants. H. Pay them a wage as if they were servants, they are free when they buy themselves. This will take many years. I. H., but pay them as if they were the most expensive servants, they can buy themselves in a year or less. J. Something else. Fill in. 3. As to your nine cattle workers... K. Keep them as slaves. L. Free them, hire them as servants. M. Free them and sell your cattle. With Naomi, figure out a new way to manage the family wealth which does not involve slavery. This will mean trading, sponsoring merchants, farm or other sources of income. N. Pay them a wage as if they were servants, they are free when they buy themselves. This will take many years. O. N., but pay them as if they were the most expensive servants, they can buy themselves in a year or less. P. Something else. Fill in. 4. As to the two slaves digging clay for Lefkandi... Q. Keep them as slaves. R. Free them, work something out with Lefkandi. S. Something else. Fill in. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3550307&pagenumber=1435&perpage=40#post438430935 5. As to your cook, Sabium... T. Keep her as a slave. U. Free her. V. Free her and arrange a marriage for her in Zepath. She has poor prospects, absent your aid. W. Free her and pay for her to return to Baitel. You are almost certain this is what she wants. She could never afford the trip on her own. X. W., AND pay her years of back wages Y. Something else. Fill in. The following is only relevant if you are freeing your slaves. Do not vote for #6 otherwise. In light of the great trophy you dragged home, the eyes of Zepath are upon you even more than usual. If you took the occasion of emancipating your slaves to send a message, people may be more apt to listen now. Freeing debt slaves is always seen as a virtuous act. The clay diggers and three of the cattle slaves are debt slaves, the rest are not. Freeing other slaves is semi-virtuous, more so if they are natives of your city. About half of the other slaves you own are Zepathan natives. The Melachim worshiping heretics believe the Melachim hate slavery and that it is natural for man to be free. They will probably be greatly pleased if you, a prominent son of Zepath decide to free your slaves. Your association with Paebel, a known heretic, may even send some of those who re-dedicated themselves to El back to this cult, if they see your decision to free slaves as agreeing with the heretics. Some of the Mighty Men and other elites will probably be upset for the same reasons. Even of those who are not heretics, many young men look up to you and yearn to be like you one day, or to join your Balls. Many a 16 year old who goes on a Manhood trial hopes to return having earned glory as you did. It is not inconceivable some may become opposed to slavery if you decide to send a message along with your actions. Some may grow up to be important men some day. If Enkidel, the Hero of Ibleam speaks, people listen. 6. Do you wish to send a message, along freeing your slaves? A. No. B. gently caress! Okay. I don't want to risk bolstering the heretic ranks at all. Whatever I voted for above, I spread out freeing the slaves over several years to try to hide what I am doing. C. I let it be known that I will not again own slaves. Others can draw from it as they will. D. I let it be known that I personally oppose slavery. F. I let it be known that I oppose hereditary slavery, but not debt slavery. G. I declare that El made man to be free and that slavery is wrong. This is a challenge to the established social order. H. Rhetoric Knowledge Bonus! As a former slave, I pin my anti-slavery views on the fact I was once enslaved. I don't bring up El, I base this view on my personal circumstances, rather than claiming special knowledge of the divine or the teachings of Labaras. If I am successful, social elites will be less upset. I. History Knowledge Bonus! Religion knowledge bonus! Legal knowledge bonus! C-C-C-C-OMBO BONUS! I explain that the purpose of the jubilee was that El wished men to live free lives, for what is at most 50 years a slavery to a man who might live 300 or more? Men don't live as long now. El can't have meant to keep the jubilee as it is now, so we should have no more slaves. This could win the social elites or backfire and go drastically wrong. You suspect there is a CHANCE this could work on the local clergy of El but this could also backfire horrendously. El's clergy in other cities will likely be upset. You have cultivated an excellent relationship with the Priesthood, they like you and even a low ranking priests in a shrine when you went after Jesbaam wanted to help you. This option is dangerous and could go horribly, who are you to speak for El? J. I., but the jubilee should be ten years. Only kings call jubilees early. This challenges Tudiya's authority. If he buys your argument, no harm will come. If he thinks your trying to usurp him... K. I., also, I claim that the events at the city of Tadmor are proof of this and appeal to the Zepathan sense of superiority over the interior cities. Tadmor's foes all did not practice the jubilee. This option is not "better" it is a different approach. L. J., also, I claim that the events at the city of Tadmor are proof of this and appeal to the Zepathan sense of superiority over the interior cities. M. (Add on with I, J, K or J above)- Swap El for Labaras. This is not Mass Effect. Knowledge bonuses don't always work. It is just a way to show you how your options to respond to decisions are sometimes only available because of skills you learned from prior decisions. It just means you can try, not that you will succeed. A carpentry knowledge bonus does not mean you automatically succeed at building a wooden bridge, it means you can only try. N. Claim El told you he is against slavery. O. Claim a Melachim told you slavery is bad. P-formally N. Rhetoric Knowledge Bonus! As we are attacked by monsters extra times this generation, we need to give proper thanks to El and/or show him we are EXTRA pious and show El we are different from some of the interior cities, who dishonor the jubilee by making ours 10 years. Appeal to Zepathan attitudes of superiority over the interior cities. Q formally R. N., but no slaves at all. R formally P. I don't let my view be known, I meet with Tudiya alone and try to persuade him one of the options above is true(which?), or try another approach on him(fill in). S. Something else. Fill in. I do not have time for questions for a few hours. Diogines posted:The Capybaras checked when the next Jubilee is, at which time, all debts will be forgiven and all slaves unconditionally freed. They had to check their records since it had not come up in a while. Diogines fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 21:46
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1. As to Ishamal's request... A. Agree. 2. As to your household slaves.... F. Keep them as slaves. 3. As to your nine cattle workers... K. Keep them as slaves. 3. As to the two slaves digging clay for Lefkandi... Q. Do nothing. 4. As to your cook, Sabium... T. Do nothing. e: Also note the abomination I made in reference to certain stats nerds in IRC - I won't name and shame of course: 
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Dec 4, 2014 21:51
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HiHo ChiRho posted:1. As to Ishamal's request... Yep
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Dec 4, 2014 21:51
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HiHo ChiRho posted:1. As to Ishamal's request...
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Dec 4, 2014 21:55
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HiHo ChiRho posted:1. As to Ishamal's request... All of this. However, I am swapping 4 to X
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Dec 4, 2014 21:56
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1. A + "Oh my El thank you for giving me answers and guidance. You have no idea how meaningful this is to me!" 2. F 3. K . 4. Q 5. W
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Dec 4, 2014 21:57
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A H N Q X A Just free the slaves we own in a quiet way and undo the cooks servitude. Don't say anything about it.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:57
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3.1 and 3.2 I guess
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Dec 4, 2014 21:58
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Can you give us a rough idea of how much doing the most expensive option in each case would cost us? We're pretty loaded now, will paying everyone as servants and sending our cook home even have a huge impact on our lifestyle?
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Dec 4, 2014 21:58
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1. A. This is part and parcel of the deal we made. 2. H. Pay them a wage so they can eventually purchase themselves. I wish to do this with all our servants. I believe that paying our slaves wages to free themselves is something that might catch on, and become an institutional thing, as opposed to just freeing our slaves, which will be seen as noble but no one else will follow our example. 3. N. See above. 3 again (actually 4). S. Pay them a wage so they can free themselves in time. See above. 4 (actually 5). Y. Pay her wages of an expensive servant so she can free herself soon if she wishes, and pay for her return to Baital when she does. In the meantime, have her train a servant. 5 (actually 6). B. What I voted for will lead to the slaves being freed over an extended period of time anyway. JT Jag fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 21:59
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1A 2F 3K 4U
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Dec 4, 2014 21:59
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Diog IRC posted:<Diog|Cell> FIRST PART OF UPDATE DELETED BY MISTAKE! CAPYBARA TECH SUPPORT SCRAMBLING TO FIX NOW! The first chunk of the update is missing so look forward to it haha  .
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Dec 4, 2014 22:00
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1A 2G 3L 4S - Pay them a wage to free themselves. Lefkandi can deal with his own slaves after that. 5W 6A
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Dec 4, 2014 22:05
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Tomn posted:I take it you don't agree that mercy is never misplaced, and you hold no value in any love Ishamal or the Trio might feel for us? We had mercy, oodles of it. Every time we did something we promised not to and didn't get punished for it was a mercy. When they saved Snarls after the mind meld, that was a mercy. When Ish fought what could very well have been Aserah way back when we tried to use !Fishlightning! was a mercy. If they're telling the truth about everything then we're a genuine global threat with a history of breaking promises when it suited us and experimenting with forbidden magic we apparently do not understand. Sometimes mercy can involve ending a life rather than preserving it. . . Edmund Burke did not, correct, but that is beside the point. You were saying we shouldn't try changing stuff at all because our 2014 mindset is still flawed. Which unless I've misunderstood your intent is a logical fallacy.
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Dec 4, 2014 22:06
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Wheeeelp, looks like soup-straining had a point! Gee, who would have thought that waxing mean ol' Mr. Miyagi's car had practical applications? 1. A. Though I want to ask Ishamal, Will deepening the well cause any other effects? 2. H, if they want it. Literally what I've been advocating for a while now. Sustainable emancipation! 3. N, if they want it. Ditto. 4. VOTE CHANGED, wages won't work, but working off their labor does. Changing vote to 4: S: Free the slaves now, buy new slaves to replace them. Make plans to free the new slaves in three years with the profits earned from Lefkandi, repeat ad infinitum or until slavery is abolished. Smooth things over with Lefkandi, which should be easy. 5. I AM AN INDECISIVE rear end in a top hat, vote changed to 5. Y: Learn how to cook from the cook, then free her and send her to Baitel. 6. Abstain for now. Oooh, this one is interesting. Ask Ishamal what he thinks about I or J. If he thinks we may be able to get away with it, drop a private word in Zeb's ear about the same. If both are chill with it, move on to Tudiya. Tomn fucked around with this message at 11:26 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 22:07
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Pladdicus posted:Which is fair, all of those things can happen, but what are the other consequences of C? Why isn't anyone seriously considering the handicap of not using our magic when not allowed to? Some people have. I voted B. I did so with the full understanding that people might die because of the restrictions put on our use of power. I also understand that these may be people close to us. I understand that refraining from action may cause us grief in our society. I understand that we may be thought of as a coward. I understand that we may have other people (and posters) question the inaction, or our reasons, and lose status among our peers. I understand that people will say it's our fault. But all of that boils down to fear. Fear about consequences, fear about what other people might say. I don't want to act out of fear. I empathize with the whole "I'm afraid that if we do x, we might get hurt/we might die/people might die/people might get hurt/property might get stolen or destroyed/the endtimes will come/etc. etc. However, it's still fear, and I don't care to play that way. I'm not voting B because of loyalty to the watchers. I'm not voting B to curry favor or to spite Ishamal. He has very little to do with it, really. I'd vote the same way even if we had a different mentor. I came across a saying recently: "Be careful when a naked man offers you a shirt." It's a poo poo saying, sure, but it's got a few interpretations that might be applicable here. What assistance can/should a naked man offer when he can't even keep himself clothed? In other words, what help can we offer the world when we're a broke rear end mofo ourselves? How can we even begin to fix anything or save anyone when we can't even master our own impulses? When we offer help, are we trying to offer something to the world we can't truly give? Some of the reasons I voted B are: 1) The watchers are right to question whether we're able to rule ourselves in a sound manner, let alone be trusted with godlike superpowers. We're not honest in our dealings. Collectively, when left to our own devices, we continuously lie to the people around us (see: Indor and Tudiya, Ishamal and his training). We turn away responsibility when it's inconvenient to us (see: Mighty Men, Keturah). We're cowardly (see: Ibleam, following the Norcs). We are unable or unwilling to set proper boundaries (see: Uriah). We're glory-seekers (see: seeking out the Zviv for shits and giggles, our continual monster hunting, etc.) I think Enkidel has become a poo poo person, and I don't like it. I would prefer he fix his own poo poo (metaphorically since we don't seem to poop) before bringing it down on other people. 2) Fighting monsters is simply not fulfilling to me. I'm ok if we back off it for a bit to pursue something else, whether it's training or a trade or growing loving turnips. 3) While this is a game, I do actually believe that giving people what they have not earned breaks them on some level, whether that goes for us or for other people. This is not to say I don't want to help others (I do), or that there's always a problem with helping others. But unearned aid does tend to bring up issues. Inefficiency of the aid, dependency, etc. Enkidel needs to earn his powers. Because he's kind of poo poo. This appears to be his last chance to do so. Vote however you want to. Disagree with me if you like. But no, it's not a matter of "you don't know the consequences of your choices", or "you don't fully understand what you're doing!" Because gently caress that.
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Dec 4, 2014 22:07
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Me and you Tomn, our votes against the world
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Dec 4, 2014 22:11
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I always feel bad for the people who type out all those words, hit the page preview, and see diog has already pushed out an update
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Dec 4, 2014 22:13
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Tomn posted:Wheeeelp, looks like soup-straining had a point! Gee, who would have thought that waxing mean ol' Mr. Miyagi's car had practical applications? Voting this.
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Dec 4, 2014 22:13
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Tomn posted:5. Y: Ask her to teach one of our servants how to cook as well as she does, and promise her that when this is done, we will free her and pay her way back to Baitel. Gives her a goal to work towards, lets us keep the food, and teaches a new servant valuable and interesting new skills. Goodo all around! Diogines posted:She has taught as much of her skills as she can to your other household slaves but the woman apparently has immense natural talent for cooking and what she makes is just better. You paid top
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Dec 4, 2014 22:16
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1.A 2.F 3.K 4.Q 5.W 6.H Grognan fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 22:18
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