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Pixeltendo posted:Batman has faced against a joker with reality warping powers and won, I'm not sure where else they can go beyond that. No he didn't... The joker tortured batman to death daily before ressurecting him and trying again. Eventually Batman just broke down and stopped reacting at all. The Joker got bored of it and decided to destroy the universe but was reluctant to destroy Batman entirely. Which gave Superman an opening to defeat him. He then erased Batman's memories of the event because a psychologically catatonic Batman is really boring to write comics about.
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Dec 11, 2014 06:22
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 00:49 |
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The other version of that is Batman kicking the Joker's rear end inside his mind so hard that Joker gave up his powers. joker you can kill me but you cant get inside my mind haha i will get inside your mind no please dont get inside my mind yes now im inside your mind yes now youre on my turf oh poo poo *batfist*
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Dec 11, 2014 06:38
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Mooseontheloose posted:Honestly, I am one of the few people who think that the Joker is kinda played out and is kinda a boring villain. I find it really disappointing that every Batman thing seems to have to have him in it. Who's the villain this time? Oh, it's the Joker again. It's always the Joker.
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Dec 11, 2014 07:09
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The worst part is that Batman generally treats the Joker like he's more of a threat than other villains up to the point of outright ignoring whatever hand they have in a situation. I mean, Zsasz and Penguin have hostages that they are poised to kill and Batman just talks trash to them. All it takes for him to go after Joker is him trying to shoot at Catwoman.
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Dec 11, 2014 08:59
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I think the Joker's thing is that he is the only Criminal whose number Batman does not have? Trash-talking the Penguin gets him to make mistakes, become arrogant, and hold his attention/resources on getting back at Batman. If Penguin had fled to safety after dropping Batman down there with Grundy, he could have regrouped, set his defenses back up...Shot at Batman from outside the hole at least? Instead he climbs right on down with an explosive weapon so that Batman can punch him in the face a lot. Zsasz really wants attention. Ignoring him makes him angry, which would make him kill more people instead of setting up inane challenges like this. Of course, Batman can't 'support' him in any way which leaves derision. This satisfies Zsasz enough to lower the deathcount. Every villain demonstrates some kind of mental illness/profile; Stockholm syndrome (Harley), multiple personalities (Ventriloquist, Twoface), egomania (Riddler, Strange), inferiority complex (Penguin, Scarecrow) or something along those lines, but the Joker changes. Joker has been different crazies over his run, and he'll be different crazies in the future. Freeze always wants his wife back, Penguin always wants respect, Ivy wants to do Plant Things, but what the joker wants, or even if he wants anything, isn't readily known.
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Dec 11, 2014 09:45
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RareAcumen posted:Dscruffy1, sorry dude, I haven't even watched one of your videos. I've been going through the thread and just got to the end because wow all this Batman talk from actual people is way more interesting than trying to figure it out on my own by going to a wiki or something. I don't blame you, half the reason I love these threads is I am not a Batman-ologist. I've read a few things here and there but the rabbit hole goes so deep! But if you are watching the videos, boy have I got a treat for you. THE BEST BOSS FIGHT IN THE GAME.  A Cold Reception/Polsy - Interview tape: Mr. Freeze 2, Joker Call 5Character bios: Nora Fries Arkham City Stories: A New Robin, Poisonous Intent (2), Scarecrow  Predator Challenge: End Of The Line/Polsy with Long Halloween Catwomane: you can maybe tell I've got a backlog and I want to get this done before I move because these are coming out fast 
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Dec 11, 2014 09:52
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We're happy with your Bat-backlog, Scruffy. It means we don't have to wait as long for the next video. Are you going to do Arkham Origins, by the way?
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Dec 11, 2014 10:37
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dscruffy1 posted:THE BEST BOSS FIGHT IN THE GAME Is it possible to mess up in this bossfight or will he stay stunned from whatever takedown you used until you succeed on the beatdown?
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Dec 11, 2014 10:50
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LoonShia posted:We're happy with your Bat-backlog, Scruffy. It means we don't have to wait as long for the next video. The plan is to do Arkham Origins but I've got an international move coming up in February. I will be separated from my PC during that time frame until probably March or April. It's coming! I just don't know when. Edminster posted:Is it possible to mess up in this bossfight or will he stay stunned from whatever takedown you used until you succeed on the beatdown? I know he will get up eventually if you don't beat him down but it takes a while. Found that out my first time through when I just used the Disruptor and it didn't last forever. I don't know for sure! I think there are enough unique takedowns you can do that he'll go down regardless, but that's definitely a thing that could use further testing. dscruffy1 fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 11:05
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Ok, I've been critical about this game in a number of places, but this THIS was near flawless - the whole mechanic of the fight, the build-up with the suit powering up, the voice modulator kicking in... It was a fantastic boss-fight; that's not been matched in any other Batman game. In fact, I'd say it's fantastic compared to a hell of a lot of other game's bosses, too. Edit - although one thing which kinda caught me off guard - you can't do corner takedowns - at least, not after doing a simple sneak-up-behind takedown, anyway. Samovar fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 11:05
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I really hate the way Riddler gets the Max Headroom stutter treatment.
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Dec 11, 2014 11:33
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Automatic Slim posted:I really hate the way Riddler gets the Max Headroom stutter treatment. I've never finished the Riddler sidequest, so I've always been curious what the gently caress is with that. Is he just bouncing his signal off so many proxies that it gets corrupted? Is he really an AI the Riddler programmed to gently caress with Batman when he wasn't around? Did the Riddler download his mind into a computer?
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Dec 11, 2014 11:57
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lovely recording equipment. He blew his budget on trophies and notenigma replicas.
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Dec 11, 2014 12:01
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This. This part of the game right here. This boss fight, while great, is the most blatant example of the problem I detailed with Batman earlier: he starts fights for NO REASON. Freeze: Batman, save my wife. Batman:  -They fight. Harley steals the cure and gets away.- Freeze: Batman, save my wife. Batman: Well, even though I'm sick and dying and pissed about not having a cure just like I was before we started fighting, I'll agree to your terms now.  gently caress's sake, man, Freeze knows he saved his wife before. Couldn't he just explain that he'll die and be unable to save Nora without the cure before wasting his time sneaking around to fight a guy with a supersuit?  dscruffy1 posted:I know he will get up eventually if you don't beat him down but it takes a while. Found that out my first time through when I just used the Disruptor and it didn't last forever. I don't know for sure! I think there are enough unique takedowns you can do that he'll go down regardless, but that's definitely a thing that could use further testing. On Hard Mode, I'm pretty sure you need to use every Takedown once to beat him (and he'll even jam your relay with Barbara so you can't check the hints!), so there's a possibility. On Normal Mode, though, there are definitely enough variants to do.
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Dec 11, 2014 15:03
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:This. Thank you. The Freeze fight is masterfully done in terms of mechanics, which makes how out of place it is in the story that much more jarring. It makes me angry every single time and shatters the immersion, especially when Batman does in fact do exactly the thing Freeze wanted him to do in the first loving place. It's just straight up badly written and it's a real shame because if they could have come up with any other reason for that fight to take place, it would be probably one of the greatest boss fights in the history of games.
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Dec 11, 2014 17:25
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That was a spectacularly dumb Batman moment. But a brilliant Freeze moment. Not only does the fight give you the impression that Freeze is a nigh-unstoppable juggernaut, it shows that Freeze is much smarter than most opponents Batman faces. I love it when a game gives the impression that the enemy is learning from the player's actions. I wish more games tried to do that.
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Dec 11, 2014 17:35
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The idea of a predator bossfight is great and executed perfectly here. Now if you want an example of this done wrong, look no further than AO's final battle. Repetitive and stupid. Guess what I'm trying to say is that this fight really only works because of all the amazing ways you can interact with the environment in this game - and all the environmental toys they give you. Predator sections are honestly the most fun part of the Batgames for me.
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Dec 11, 2014 18:03
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A neat little detail is that before the fight starts, Freeze has already frozen all the vantage points up near the ceiling. He was clearly anticipating having to fight Batman.
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Dec 11, 2014 18:12
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This is one of the best action-adventure game boss fights of all time in my opinion, and specifically it's the perfect Batman game boss fight. Perfectly executed.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:17
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CuwiKhons posted:Thank you. The Freeze fight is masterfully done in terms of mechanics, which makes how out of place it is in the story that much more jarring. It makes me angry every single time and shatters the immersion, especially when Batman does in fact do exactly the thing Freeze wanted him to do in the first loving place. It's just straight up badly written and it's a real shame because if they could have come up with any other reason for that fight to take place, it would be probably one of the greatest boss fights in the history of games. Or Freeze could just do this: Freeze: I need time to SCIENCE!... about as much time as it would take to coincidentally save my wife, would you mind? Also, have some freeze grenades, grab some of those Riddler trophies on the way out while you're at it. Batman: I'm off! Freeze: *pushes cure button, goes on playing minesweeper* That being said,  on the greatness of the fight, really intense.
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Dec 11, 2014 22:11
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Freeze can't play Minesweeper. He gave the disruptor to Batman, remember? But yeah, that likely would've been a much more sensible way to handle it.
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Dec 11, 2014 22:47
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(Freeze puts the cure and the blood of Ra's in the centrifuge. It opens: it is finished. He opens his mouth to say they have bonded... and then closes it. A plan comes to his mind.) "It appears that it was successful. However, it will take some time for the two components to fully bond. An hour, I would estimate. I will keep an eye on them here. In the meantime, Batman, would you do me a favor?"
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Dec 11, 2014 23:03
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^-- What they said But I'm sure we can pick the plot apart further when the LP is done Anyway, you've probably noticed that Batman's cape has some new gashes now - in fact, at 8:23 mark the game has switched into second set of damaged suit textures, with couple of more holes and lots of dirt all around - Batman's face has also some gashes and blood on it. Strangely enough, the preceding cutscene still uses previous set, without bloody face and dirt, even though he should already have them Moving on - "Dini Towers" are, of course, the reference to Paul Dini, the creative force behind animated Batman (and first two Arkham games as well )Also, at 14:50 Batman uses the line launcher to save Vicki, just like in the first Batman movie  Did you also noticed phantom blimp popping up out of nowehere at 16:03?  dscruffy1 posted:The plan is to do Arkham Origins but I've got an international move coming up in February. I will be separated from my PC during that time frame until probably March or April. It's coming! I just don't know when. Kazeite fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 23:15
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Honestly, I'm going to give this one to Batman. He can't start being manipulated and strong-armed by super-criminals into doing their bidding. Joker got away with it for the same reason Joker gets away with everything, but even he had to resort a threat greater than 'do it or I'll kill you'. Freeze's mistake was that he gave Batman an option that involved punching him in the face. But seriously, Batman has to maintain fear and control of the situation or else all the fear he's built up in Gotham criminals just goes 'poof'.
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Dec 11, 2014 23:48
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Gothsheep posted:Honestly, I'm going to give this one to Batman. He can't start being manipulated and strong-armed by super-criminals into doing their bidding. Joker got away with it for the same reason Joker gets away with everything, but even he had to resort a threat greater than 'do it or I'll kill you'. Freeze's mistake was that he gave Batman an option that involved punching him in the face. But seriously, Batman has to maintain fear and control of the situation or else all the fear he's built up in Gotham criminals just goes 'poof'. That's reasonable, somewhat, but it's immediately broken because he does what Freeze is asking him to anyway. So the message to Gotham's criminals appears to be 'Batman will do what you want, but he has to beat you up a lot first'.
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Dec 12, 2014 00:05
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Hellioning posted:That's reasonable, somewhat, but it's immediately broken because he does what Freeze is asking him to anyway. So the message to Gotham's criminals appears to be 'Batman will do what you want, but he has to beat you up a lot first'. Truthfully, I think Batman might have done it had Freeze not broken one of the only two vials of the cure. Let's not forget that he needs the cure for the rest of Gotham and here Freeze is keeping it from him while it's been said by the thugs outside that they were waiting for Harley to get there. Also, remember that he's starting to have the hallucinations and other effects of Titan blood poisoning so perhaps Batman isn't thinking straight. We know that the Lazarus juice only heals him for a few hours, he's probably close to where he was back at the entrance to The League HQ in Gotham.
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Dec 12, 2014 00:20
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Hellioning posted:That's reasonable, somewhat, but it's immediately broken because he does what Freeze is asking him to anyway. So the message to Gotham's criminals appears to be 'Batman will do what you want, but he has to beat you up a lot first'. Batman rescues Freeze's wife because she's being held captive, not because Freeze wants him to. Batman fights Freeze because Freeze is holding the cure captive. People are trying really hard to find problems with the writing in this game.
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Dec 12, 2014 00:21
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Hellioning posted:That's reasonable, somewhat, but it's immediately broken because he does what Freeze is asking him to anyway. So the message to Gotham's criminals appears to be 'Batman will do what you want, but he has to beat you up a lot first'. Well, see, there's a difference between saving Freeze's wife because Freeze is holding the cure hostage, and saving Freeze's wife for no reason. The former is giving into extortion and sets a bad precedent; the latter is just normal hero stuff. EDIT Dammit, Vox.
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Dec 12, 2014 00:24
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Also Freeze demanded he do something at the beginning. At the end, he was basically pleading Batman to do so. And people have to understand Freeze DOESN'T trust Batman. He thought "I have to extort him or he wont do it." had he just given the cure and asked Batman to help him? He likely would have avoided everything. But Freeze fundamentally doesn't think even NOW that Batman is going to go find Nora.
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Dec 12, 2014 00:30
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I think that for the freeze fight, if you don't actually deal damage to him, he won't "learn" from it? Like, if you bust through a window and don't knock his block off, he will get up and mindlessly walk by other winows waiting to get ambushed until he gets punished for it? (never played this before, but that seems like the VideoGame-y way to handle it). Worst case scenario, you die and start over, and don't just let him be stunned for 30 seconds? Hellioning posted:That's reasonable, somewhat, but it's immediately broken because he does what Freeze is asking him to anyway. So the message to Gotham's criminals appears to be 'Batman will do what you want, but he has to beat you up a lot first'. I always wonder how Batman looks from the perspective of someone who doesn't see him as Bruce Wayne, the man who swore to fight against evil afetr his parents died, and who traveled the world to blah blah blah... They just see a Buff dude in Black who can fly around, and sometimes your friends start disappearing until you're left one on one vs a guy 150% your size, who can see the future and your gun doesn't work and he's gone and your leg just got broken. Then you can consider whether they see his gadgets or it just seems that Batman actually has super powers, and whether it matters when a crowd of 30 thugs is unconscious and you're suddenly alone.
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Dec 12, 2014 01:25
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I want to know at what point Batman became less scary to the criminals of Gotham. Like, before people weren't sure he was human or not. Now they just know he's an incredibly skilled guy dressed up like a bat that is very likely to break your legs into not so fun shapes. Was it around the time he started cooperating with the police? Maybe when supervillains started showing up on the scene? Repeated encounters with him? The realization that he never kills the people he runs into? Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 01:42
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:I want to know at what point Batman became less scary to the criminals of Gotham. Like, before people weren't sure he was human or not. Now they just know he's an incredibly skilled guy dressed up like a bat that is very likely to break your legs into not so fun shapes. He's not less scary, but they almost all seem to think that THIS TIME they can fight him. Because they know Batman is just 'A man' but like the Predator rooms show, they get easily terrified. Criminals are a supersticious and cowardly lot.
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Dec 12, 2014 01:57
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Onmi posted:He's not less scary, but they almost all seem to think that THIS TIME they can fight him. Because they know Batman is just 'A man' but like the Predator rooms show, they get easily terrified. Criminals are a supersticious and cowardly lot. More likely none of them have any training, they aren't brave to begin with, and it's only fear of who they're working for that even pits them against Batman. Better to get their jaw broken by Batman then get shot/stabbed/gassed/whatever other horrible demise the Joker/Penguin/Riddler will do to them.
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Dec 12, 2014 02:18
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Also when you think about it... you have a shot if Batman breaks your leg. Paramedics pack you up and then you go to a prison hospital AWAY FROM THE PSYCHOPATH CRIMINAL WHO WOULD KILL YOU FOR FAILING. They probably all get new identities as well
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Dec 12, 2014 02:22
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Onmi posted:He's not less scary, but they almost all seem to think that THIS TIME they can fight him. Ah, so it's the Dark Souls approach. Minus the part where you gently caress off and go fight someone else if you lose eight times in a row.
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Dec 12, 2014 03:06
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Batman is absolutely terrifying one on one. But hey, we've got eight guys, we can take him, right! ...seven... six... fivefourthree... two... oh god why did I agree to this heeeeeelp.
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Dec 12, 2014 03:36
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FeyerbrandX posted:Or Freeze could just do this: Yeah, that was a really excellently done fight. I had no idea how you were going to keep surprising him. The thing with the plot here is that I don't think Batman does anything wrong, at least not here. You could argue that he brought this on himself with the way he treated Freeze back in the museum? "The Joker has my wife and she'll die if I don't give him the cure" is a reasonable thing for even a civilian to say, and if Batman had started the boss fight after Freeze said that we'd have a lot more grounds to call him unreasonable. But when Freeze destroys half the cure, that is not the opening move of someone acting in good faith.
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Dec 12, 2014 06:46
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I always thought this was Freeze 100% getting Batman back for the thing back at the Museum.
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Dec 12, 2014 07:03
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Nekomimi-Maiden posted:Batman is absolutely terrifying one on one. But hey, we've got eight guys, we can take him, right! Okay, the last time didn't work but now we've got an entire city on our side, no way he can take all of us now! Then Batmite shows up and he's like 'I started watching Jojos and wow it's so cool so you know what'd make this fight right now even cooler? If Batman had a Stand too! ' Glazius posted:"The Joker has my wife and she'll die if I don't give him the cure" is a reasonable thing for even a civilian to say, and if Batman had started the boss fight after Freeze said that we'd have a lot more grounds to call him unreasonable. But when Freeze destroys half the cure, that is not the opening move of someone acting in good faith. Isn't Batman supposed to be like the World's Greatest Detective or something? Could've hired him and paid with half of a two antidotes for blood poison. Anyway, it'd be cool if the reasoning was more concrete that you could agree with it but eh, what can you do?
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Dec 12, 2014 08:05
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Heck, thinking on it again; Freeze is doing to Batman what Batman did to him, put his life in danger until he fulfilled part of a bargin. In fact, I think he even uses the same line Batman does - "you don't look well".
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Dec 12, 2014 09:07
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