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Angry Fish posted:I'd love a long answer. Is there some kind of primer on this available through PSD or someplace? There is a budget specifically allocated to PCSing people. It isn't infinite, but it also isn't as simple as some of the hyperbole here makes it out to be. For example, when I was in, there was a goal to have at least 70% of first tour to second tour JO SWOs stay in the same homeport. Additionally, priority was placed on people overseas in places like Japan to move back to the states, so likewise there was little difficulty PCSing to Japan. When you consider that only 30% is really going to be allowed to move and a non-trivial chunk of that will be people moving to/from Japan/Rota/Etc, you can start to see how there simply might not be enough room in the budget to move a single person over that 30% a few states down the road. Granted these percentages have likely changed in the past few years, the general concept is the same. There is a dollar ceiling and there are expected numbers through each rank group on how many can PCS.
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Dec 17, 2014 14:52
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Mr. Nice! posted:There is a budget specifically allocated to PCSing people. It isn't infinite, but it also isn't as simple as some of the hyperbole here makes it out to be. For example, when I was in, there was a goal to have at least 70% of first tour to second tour JO SWOs stay in the same homeport. Additionally, priority was placed on people overseas in places like Japan to move back to the states, so likewise there was little difficulty PCSing to Japan. Thank you for that info. I'm assuming that the amount of cash goes up and down depending on the funding situation with the DoD.
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Dec 17, 2014 15:39
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Let me homestead and I might even consider re-enlisting. How am I supposed to set up my hobbyist blacksmithery if I'm going to be moving around all the time? Jeez.
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Dec 17, 2014 15:56
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Sir Lucius posted:Let me homestead and I might even consider re-enlisting. How am I supposed to set up my hobbyist blacksmithery if I'm going to be moving around all the time? Jeez. Depending on your job and where you actually want to stay, it is easier to stay in a single homeport for a career these days than it was 10-20 years ago. No-cost PCS are almost always favored if they can be.
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Dec 17, 2014 16:06
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Sir Lucius posted:Let me homestead and I might even consider re-enlisting. How am I supposed to set up my hobbyist blacksmithery if I'm going to be moving around all the time? Jeez. You could stay where you are until you retire, then get a civilian job and retire again, before you had to go anywhere else. I know you've got at least a few people that work near you that can tell you all about morse code and the Russians, but not about what it looks like outside Maryland.
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Dec 17, 2014 16:32
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Could being the operative term. I could easily stay in the area until some detailer decides I need to move to Georgia for some reason.
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Dec 17, 2014 16:36
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Sir Lucius posted:Could being the operative term. I could easily stay in the area until some detailer decides I need to move to Georgia for some reason. Move to Georgia when it's time to settle down. Housing is dirt-rear end cheap, the worksite is the newest and the town isn't that bad. Recommend at 10yr
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Dec 17, 2014 16:40
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Detailers seem like shady people, and the command career counselors can be pretty bad themselves. Same with the POMI office if anyone's ever had to deal with them to get orders for a deployment. My previous LPO only got his deployment (vacation) to Europe because he went around the offices at the command and just called the detailer directly.
Pandasmores fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Dec 18, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 17:26
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Mr. Nice! posted:Depending on your job and where you actually want to stay, it is easier to stay in a single homeport for a career these days than it was 10-20 years ago. No-cost PCS are almost always favored if they can be. And yet, every loving IP detailing brief and board community brief emphasises how important it is to have "geographic diversity" in your record. I mean, If there's billets where I'm at, I can save the Navy's money and stay where I want, but they still want to punish homesteaders for *reasons*.
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Dec 17, 2014 21:53
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Unless you want to live and retire in Lemoore. You can spend your whole career there no problem! (Seriously I don't think I've ever seen such a large vet community) I never understood the mandatory geographic rotations. I get shore/sea duty but most times you can do both in the same-ish area
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Dec 17, 2014 22:50
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Christoff posted:Unless you want to live and retire in Lemoore. You can spend your whole career there no problem! (Seriously I don't think I've ever seen such a large vet community) I don't know, Lemoore seems to be the kind of place that depends entirely on what you're looking for in life. Want to go to school at the same time, but it's in a hard science? Don't come here unless you want to drive an hour to a 4-6 hour lab and back. Want to raise a family here? Go for it, poo poo's cheap. Want to party hard? Lol you made a mistake coming here. I think the rotations are intended to be more moving around from state to state rather than going from a primarily administrative position in a warehouse to reporting to the dock down the street from your warehouse.
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Dec 18, 2014 00:15
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Angry Fish posted:Thank you for that info. I'm assuming that the amount of cash goes up and down depending on the funding situation with the DoD. Correct. It all depends on the budget situation, and can flucuate from year to year and even from quarter to quarter. It can also vary depending on the "buisness rules" from CNP on trying to control personnel costs at any given time.
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Dec 18, 2014 00:25
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Sir Lucius posted:Let me homestead and I might even consider re-enlisting. How am I supposed to set up my hobbyist blacksmithery if I'm going to be moving around all the time? Jeez. We begged to GTFO of San Diego for 17 years. For our last tours (the ones we're on) we asked to stay, because gently caress it we were used to it. Nooope. Now we're in Japan. Detailing is insane and stupid. I had a dude from my last ship with 10 dependents (MOTHERFUCKING TEN because he was one of those superreligious non-vaxxing quiverfull fucks) get orders to England.
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Dec 18, 2014 00:34
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The current DESRON 31 commodore has like 9 kids as well. Dude has a 15 passenger van as a POV.
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Dec 18, 2014 00:41
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Sir Lucius posted:Let me homestead and I might even consider re-enlisting. How am I supposed to set up my hobbyist blacksmithery if I'm going to be moving around all the time? Jeez. You are in one of a handful of ratings in the Navy where you can absolutely homestead with little-to-no adverse effects assuming you deploy once in a while. In fact, I know Senior Chiefs at this duty station who have bounced between Norfolk and Maryland for 12-13 years. You simply won't get a better deal than that anywhere else in the Navy if you want to homestead, short of having an EFMP situation. buttplug fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Dec 18, 2014 |
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Dec 18, 2014 03:03
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Octopode posted:And yet, every loving IP detailing brief and board community brief emphasises how important it is to have "geographic diversity" in your record. I have to disagree with what Mr. Nice says specifically as it pertains to officers. Yes, the Navy wants officers with eclectic, operational backgrounds who have worked in a variety of diverse billets across multiple AORs. I just sat in the IP officer regional meeting for the Annapolis/MD/DC are and there were about 30 of us, including 6 O-6s who more or less ran the show and gave excellent advice. That advice being: take diverse tours, go to sea where possible, deploy if you can, do operational poo poo, and don't homestead if you value your career. 1820s != CTs. Even 1810s who homestead around NSA and just play the UIC-swap game are penalized beyond beyond O4 if they don't get the hell off the east coast. The same can be said of almost any designator in the IDC. Keep in mind that your board is 80% URL folks, 20% IDC, including literally maybe 2 people (sometimes 1) from your designator.
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Dec 18, 2014 03:07
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Assignment Officer/Detailer is an insanely lovely job with not enough money involved in the PCS process and any number of people trying to pull favors. It sucks, but the only way to improve it is a route the Navy is highly unlikely to take.
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Dec 18, 2014 03:45
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krispykremessuck posted:Assignment Officer/Detailer is an insanely lovely job with not enough money involved in the PCS process and any number of people trying to pull favors. It sucks, but the only way to improve it is a route the Navy is highly unlikely to take. Double length of tours. Make officers do 4 year tours like enlisted guys.
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Dec 18, 2014 03:50
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Vriess posted:Double length of tours. Make officers do 4 year tours like enlisted guys. Will absolutely never happen. Even 3 year tours are reserved for shore duty/"cooling off" periods, with 2-year tours generally for OCONUS sea duty and 1yr (average) deployments. Scroll up to the tidbit I just wrote about diversity. The Navy wants offices with a diverse background. 4 + 4 years = 2 whole tours by the time you're coming up for O4 which is not even remotely diverse or broadening. Also, most enlisted get 4-year orders for their first duty station because so many of them jump ship after their first term, and its a huge cost-savings to not have to PCS someone twice in 4 years who is just going to get out (statistically).
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Dec 18, 2014 04:08
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Vriess posted:Double length of tours. Make officers do 4 year tours like enlisted guys. That and standardize transfer seasons. And some other things. Does the Navy have assignment priorities? In other words, a given billet has a numerical priority attached to it that the body filling it inherits when it comes to choosing their next assignment. e: For real question about the Navy, do all officers have a realistic expectation of command in their career path? Or is it limited to a narrow career path? I get what's being said about assignment diversity, but that's some high level doublespeak that has to do with positional churn to save any one place from burning to the ground at the hands of one really lovely officer. krispykremessuck fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Dec 18, 2014 |
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Dec 18, 2014 04:11
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krispykremessuck posted:e: For real question about the Navy, do all officers have a realistic expectation of command in their career path? Or is it limited to a narrow career path? I get what's being said about assignment diversity, but that's some high level doublespeak that has to do with positional churn to save any one place from burning to the ground at the hands of one really lovely officer. I don't understand your question. Are you asking if all officers themselves have an expectation of command, or if the Navy expects all officers to have command?
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Dec 18, 2014 04:49
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ManMythLegend posted:I don't understand your question. Are you asking if all officers themselves have an expectation of command, or if the Navy expects all officers to have command? Does the expected career path of any given naval officer include command? Or is it more realistically restricted to a few specialties? e: I know any officer of appropriate grade can command, I guess I'm asking if it's realistic to expect all officers to pursue command. e2: That's still not right. What is THE NAVY's expectation of officers, should you be preparing for command, or if you're in certain specialties is it basically not an option due to more suitable individuals? I don't know how the Navy screens for command, and that's why I'm asking. The diverse tour thing is goofy to me not because of the concept, but because the amount of officers in general, and the limited command slots. krispykremessuck fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Dec 18, 2014 |
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Dec 18, 2014 04:50
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buttplug posted:Will absolutely never happen. Even 3 year tours are reserved for shore duty/"cooling off" periods, with 2-year tours generally for OCONUS sea duty and 1yr (average) deployments. Scroll up to the tidbit I just wrote about diversity. The Navy wants offices with a diverse background. 4 + 4 years = 2 whole tours by the time you're coming up for O4 which is not even remotely diverse or broadening. 3-year tours do not happen anymore, at least not in the SWO community. Not signed up for department head? Then gently caress you. Ol' Captain Black, who thinks SWO DIVOs show up to their ship knowing how to lead their sailors, that ASW-LCS is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and that the new LHD is going to be loving amazing for the F-35 says gently caress you. Literally.
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Dec 18, 2014 05:39
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krispykremessuck posted:e2: That's still not right. What is THE NAVY's expectation of officers, should you be preparing for command, or if you're in certain specialties is it basically not an option due to more suitable individuals? I don't know how the Navy screens for command, and that's why I'm asking. The diverse tour thing is goofy to me not because of the concept, but because the amount of officers in general, and the limited command slots. I can't speak for the RL and staff corps communities, but for URL types the Navy absolutely expects you to be preparing for command. In fact every promotion board is designed to select the officers which are most likely be selected for command in the future based on their performance to that point. "Preparing for command" is a pretty broad term, and what it actually entails is pretty nebulous. For the SWO community in particular, things like geographical diversity aren't really as important as being successful in your sea going tours, meeting the educational wickets for command, and working hard, SWO related, staff jobs ashore. The other URL communities value different things. Even though there are no hard and fast rules there is a general understanding of what a "good" and "bad" tour for preparing for command looks like. Detailers in general will force you to take a "good" tour so that you don't end up self selecting out of the potential CO pool.
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Dec 18, 2014 05:51
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ManMythLegend posted:I can't speak for the RL and staff corps communities, but for URL types the Navy absolutely expects you to be preparing for command. In fact every promotion board is designed to select the officers which are most likely be selected for command in the future based on their performance to that point. For the IDC at least, the same is true, generally. The extremely small pool of actual command billets mean a great deal of the people never end up holding command, but the expectation is that to be competitive, promotion-wise, you have to be tracking to at least be command-eligible.
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Dec 18, 2014 06:01
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ManMythLegend posted:I can't speak for the RL and staff corps communities, but for URL types the Navy absolutely expects you to be preparing for command. In fact every promotion board is designed to select the officers which are most likely be selected for command in the future based on their performance to that point. Thanks, this answered my question. So does what Octopode said. I'm still adjusting to how the Navy does business, and, if nothing else my change in careers has given me an acute appreciation for where I came from.
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Dec 18, 2014 06:20
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krispykremessuck posted:Thanks, this answered my question. So does what Octopode said. I'm still adjusting to how the Navy does business, and, if nothing else my change in careers has given me an acute appreciation for where I came from. Did you just commission?
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Dec 18, 2014 06:31
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ManMythLegend posted:Did you just commission? Worse. I took a civil service job.
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Dec 18, 2014 07:02
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One more day before the xmas stand down and a needed beach vacation. 
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Dec 18, 2014 21:15
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My package just arrived, but I won't be there to get it until tomorrow. I hope it's not full of spiders/dicks.
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Dec 18, 2014 22:34
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Sir Lucius posted:My package just arrived, but I won't be there to get it until tomorrow. I hope it's not full of spiders/dicks. Dreamcast full of Mealworms was still the best.
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Dec 18, 2014 23:53
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krispykremessuck posted:That and standardize transfer seasons. And some other things. Does the Navy have assignment priorities? In other words, a given billet has a numerical priority attached to it that the body filling it inherits when it comes to choosing their next assignment. Standardized transfer seasons is a terrible idea because it was destroy what little continuity we have from person to person, command to command (imagine if 40% of your command PCS'ed within a one month period). And billet do have a numerical priority assigned to them, at least on the officer side, although this is generally only something the detailers can see AFAIK. And not "all" officers have a realistic expectation (or aspiration) for command in their career, but it is definitely what Big Navy leadership pushes on folks if you're even remotely competent. I know plenty of folks who have no desire whatsoever for command ashore or at sea. Some community are only eligible for command ashore (i.e. the restricted line communities, like the IDC). Some people consciously choose an easier career path with a better quality of life that they know will "disqualify" (read: make them not competitive) for command. Lastly, the tidbits I threw out there about assignment diversity aren't high-level doublespeak, really. The military legitimately wants people who have diverse backgrounds in multiple AORs and countries because it generally makes you more well-rounded as a person. Here's a silly example-analogy: who is generally more interesting to talk to? The guy who spent his entire working adult life in Kentucky, or the guy who have lived in 3-4 diverse places? Apply that to the military...who is going to *generally* make the better decisions: the guy who has served in 3-4 wildly diverse AORs with a very collection of experiences/situations/events, or the O who sat in Norfolk and UIC swapped within the same 250-mile radius his entire career? Obviously I'm painting with a broad brush on that last bit, but it's generally true. Boon posted:3-year tours do not happen anymore, at least not in the SWO community. That's the exception, not the rule (no, literally). It's in the JFTR. Skip down to Q1-1. http://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/Docs/perdiem/browse/Travel_Regulations/Regulations_Changes/Monthly/2011/JFTR/Change-300%2812-01-11%29.pdf buttplug fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Dec 19, 2014 |
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Dec 19, 2014 00:06
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buttplug posted:Standardized transfer seasons is a terrible idea because it was destroy what little continuity we have from person to person, command to command (imagine if 40% of your command PCS'ed within a one month period). I've lived it, and, in general, it worked great. Exceptions to that are, of course, that one year where the stars align and a bunch of people rotate/separate at the same time. Even then, if the command is doing things right it shouldn't be an issue. But it's a different service, so, it's unlikely the Navy could actually implement the change even if they wanted to.
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Dec 19, 2014 00:45
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So I just got back from being underway for my entire detailing window with a detailer that wouldn't answer my emails. I am expecting news of a fantastic shore duty that is in line with my preferences to arrive very soon!
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Dec 19, 2014 00:46
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krispykremessuck posted:I've lived it, and, in general, it worked great. Exceptions to that are, of course, that one year where the stars align and a bunch of people rotate/separate at the same time. Even then, if the command is doing things right it shouldn't be an issue. Except that it always *is* an issue. There's something to be said when the majority of continuity at any given command resides with civilians or contractors, and that is very common throughout the entire DoD not just the Navy. It is a huge, huge issue. My last office had 6 out of 10 folks PCS within 2 months and almost a year later they're *still* emailing me with questions. Not their fault, but it happens.
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Dec 19, 2014 00:59
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buttplug posted:Except that it always *is* an issue. There's something to be said when the majority of continuity at any given command resides with civilians or contractors, and that is very common throughout the entire DoD not just the Navy. It is a huge, huge issue. My last office had 6 out of 10 folks PCS within 2 months and almost a year later they're *still* emailing me with questions. Not their fault, but it happens. But would it stop admin from loving up getting a transfer package set up for someone and have them rushing everything at the last minute or is that just something thats common throughout civ and mil careers?
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Dec 19, 2014 02:51
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buttplug posted:Except that it always *is* an issue. There's something to be said when the majority of continuity at any given command resides with civilians or contractors, and that is very common throughout the entire DoD not just the Navy. It is a huge, huge issue. My last office had 6 out of 10 folks PCS within 2 months and almost a year later they're *still* emailing me with questions. Not their fault, but it happens. I will agree with you in the outside case that the Navy tried to implement something like that it would end up with everyone in an office or program leaving at once. Based on my limited experience thus far I don't trust the Navy to implement service-wide policies and frankly I'm shocked that most people are wearing the same uniform. Either way, I'm not arguing with you. I know better.
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Dec 19, 2014 03:37
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The whole diverse background thing is the very definition of double speak. Of course I'm speaking from an aviator's POV but our career path is very defined and good luck even making operational department head if you don't stick to the path. And if you don't make operational department head you aren't making O5 as an aviator. Perfect example of that is doing a PEP tour (exchange tour flying with a foreign military). That's the very definition of a diverse experience and yet it is not considered a "career enhancing" tour at all. Pilots have a little better shot at screening operational DH with a PEP tour under your belt but again, good luck if you are an NFO. I have a buddy who did a PEP tour and didn't even make O4. Extremely intelligent guy, good officer and NFO but got totally hosed by that decision.
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Dec 19, 2014 06:24
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vulturesrow posted:Pilots have a little better shot at screening operational DH with a PEP tour under your belt but again, good luck if you are an NFO. I have a buddy who did a PEP tour and didn't even make O4. Extremely intelligent guy, good officer and NFO but got totally hosed by that decision. This is from a Proceedings article and talking with some Os in my time but, isn't this the same with how we're sending the mediocre, middle of the road people to the War Colleges and other places where it is suppose to be the best, brightest, and next generation of Navy leaders.
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Dec 19, 2014 06:34
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Nick Soapdish posted:This is from a Proceedings article and talking with some Os in my time but, isn't this the same with how we're sending the mediocre, middle of the road people to the War Colleges and other places where it is suppose to be the best, brightest, and next generation of Navy leaders. War College in residence pretty much isn't even an option unless you are firmly on "the path." Most guys I know go while they are waiting for their command tour. JPME is now a check in the box items so a lot of guys do it via correspondence which is a joke. Some guys do manage to finagle their way in but by and large if you got in it's because you have been selected for command or have a reasonably good shot at doing so. Again, this is all very aviation-centric, I have no idea how it works for the other warfare communities.
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Dec 19, 2014 06:42
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