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quote:Shining platinum-and-chrome New Age engine design principles concealed within a beautiful chassis of polished wood and warm gold accents. Does that count as grog? Backup grog: quote:3.5e Grapple rules. They just need a complete rewrite.
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Dec 23, 2014 16:01
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Mormon Star Wars posted:One of those classes is an elf that starts with an 80s leather jacket, a laser pistol, and a sense of nostalgia for their robot servants and electronica.
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Dec 23, 2014 17:22
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Veyrall posted:Which one is this? I need to know right now. Blacklore Elf from Mystara's Hollow World book.
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Dec 23, 2014 17:25
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Mormon Star Wars posted:Blacklore Elf from Mystara's Hollow World book. Their lore apparently involves an exodus of Extreme Sports Club members who fight off Gargantuan WerePenguins and eventually find a friendly starship to take them to their homeland. There is also a cannibalistic wizard tournament to determine who gets the right to eat the others and be the last remaining Blacklore elf in their starving colony. This poo poo is goddamn brilliant.
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Dec 23, 2014 19:42
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Bendigeidfran posted:Their lore apparently involves an exodus of Extreme Sports Club members who fight off Gargantuan WerePenguins and eventually find a friendly starship to take them to their homeland. There is also a cannibalistic wizard tournament to determine who gets the right to eat the others and be the last remaining Blacklore elf in their starving colony. This poo poo is goddamn brilliant. (  )
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Dec 23, 2014 19:48
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Old grog on Giant ITP. Poster asks gamers if they ever insert their real-world political beliefs into their campaigns, user comes out as a segregationist:quote:That's not what she said. Deliberately challenging your player's beliefs, whatever they may be, is very different to using your campaign as a mouthpiece for your specific political beliefs. quote:Oh, well I do that too. My game has a right way to do things, and a wrong way to do things. A happy powerful kingdom has low taxes, a run down slum of a kingdom has taxes for everything(''five gold street tax for walking down the street, one gold sight seeing tax, 25 gold visitor tax and the multiple tax tax for having more then three taxes at a time'') The good and right kingdom keeps the races apart, so the orcs are kept in ''orc town'' by the swamp. The bad and wrong kingdom has the orcs all over the place just getting in the way and doing crimes. Thread gets locked, but segregationist miraculously remains not permabanned. Pretty sad, considering she's a rather active poster in the forums from what I've seen. Unsurprisingly, same poster appears later on in a current thread about discrimination in campaign worlds, adopts the "if you don't have discrimination you might as well have a world without conflict!" stance.
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Dec 23, 2014 23:12
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Also, that if a player has experienced sexual assault, and doesn't really want to experience that in elfgames, the solution is to kick them out of the group so they don't ruin your good times.
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Dec 23, 2014 23:28
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Challenging characters' beliefs is where fun gaming happens. Challenging players' beliefs is what the Whizzard does. e: I realize commenting on G.TXT is choir-preaching, but there's a distinction to be made here. moths fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Dec 24, 2014 |
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Dec 24, 2014 01:24
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FMguru posted:Aaron Allston was kind of a genius. It's worth noting that he also wrote some of the only tolerable Star Wars EU books, which is quite the accomplishment. Basically, more people should read Wraith Squadron.
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Dec 24, 2014 01:24
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JackMann posted:Also, that if a player has experienced sexual assault, and doesn't really want to experience that in elfgames, the solution is to kick them out of the group so they don't ruin your good times. I feel like if you're in a group that wants to have sexual assault in elfgames, you should probably leave.
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Dec 24, 2014 01:27
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rkajdi posted:I was under the impression that BEMCI sold really well for the one Christmas when it was a fad present, and then not so well afterwards. Not really, no. IIRC, the 1991 "Black Box" revision of the Basic Set sold well over half a million copies over the course of its five-year lifetime; I think the exact numbers were around 700K or even higher, but I could be wrong. Coincidentally, the Black Box was the last time an introductory D&D product was primarily shelved in the board games section of major toy and department stores. Of course existing AD&D fans ragged on it for being an introductory product (because if they didn't think they needed it, then it wasn't worth making). I wouldn't be surprised if BECMI modules and supplements like the Gazetteers sold worse than their AD&D counterparts, but sales didn't really mean as much as they should have to late-80s/early-90s TSR - the developers didn't really hear about sales figures from accounting, which is why TSR spent over half a decade making lavish boxed sets despite incurring a loss on every unit sold. BECMI support might have died off partly because sales on supplements waned (thanks in no small part to the obtuse rebranding of the Basic/Rules Cyclopedia product lines), but the fact that TSR's designers were just more interested in making new material for AD&D and its myriad campaign settings certainly didn't help its chances for survival.
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Dec 24, 2014 01:59
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It would be silly to blame BECMI for lagging sales when AD&D had stuff like the Historical Reference series of books that went on for 7 supplements despite disappointing sales, and a great many AD&D 2nd edition sourcebooks which were full of reprinted material and critically and commercially disappointing. But again, my point is not to edition war, but to point out how dysfunctional TSR was insofar as it seems to have been divided between designers who were totally out of touch with their audience, and businesspeople who failed at basic marketing and accounting poo poo. TSR's also released woodburning kits and wind-up toys, bought a needlepoint company, assumed their was an infinite market for crappy licensed fiction...
Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Dec 24, 2014 |
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Dec 24, 2014 03:21
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gtrmp posted:Not really, no. IIRC, the 1991 "Black Box" revision of the Basic Set sold well over half a million copies over the course of its five-year lifetime; I think the exact numbers were around 700K or even higher, but I could be wrong. Coincidentally, the Black Box was the last time an introductory D&D product was primarily shelved in the board games section of major toy and department stores. Of course existing AD&D fans ragged on it for being an introductory product (because if they didn't think they needed it, then it wasn't worth making). Wasn't there a new Red Box for 4th edition? I saw it and thought it was a cool idea for new gamers-- we haven't had an easy gateway product for awhile. Expecting kids to get the PHB +DMG+MM to start playing is dumb. It's good to hear that BEMCI did so well. It as my original RPG, and as far as I can tell, the rules cyclopedia has been the only single book full rules set (A)D&D has ever had. It's something that should be thought about again, though I'm sure it's been analyzed to death and three core books makes for way more cash.
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Dec 24, 2014 04:20
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ProfessorCirno posted:The first "edition war" was between BECMI and AD&D. Seems to be the thing with any long-standing hobby. The hardcore, longstanding participants (suppliers and consumers) seem hellbent on making the hobby as difficult and expensive to get into as they possibly can. It's like when I go to the local hobby shop when I need to get more glue and the train and RC dudes are some of the most unfriendly folks you could ever meet.
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Dec 24, 2014 04:33
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Halloween Jack posted:It would be silly to blame BECMI for lagging sales when AD&D had stuff like the Historical Reference series of books that went on for 7 supplements despite disappointing sales, and a great many AD&D 2nd edition sourcebooks which were full of reprinted material and critically and commercially disappointing. But again, my point is not to edition war, but to point out how dysfunctional TSR was insofar as it seems to have been divided between designers who were totally out of touch with their audience, and businesspeople who failed at basic marketing and accounting poo poo. TSR's also released woodburning kits and wind-up toys, bought a needlepoint company, assumed their was an infinite market for crappy licensed fiction... To be fair, though, the crappy licensed fiction has pretty much always been the company's most lucrative product aside from new core rulebooks.
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Dec 24, 2014 04:41
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Mewnie posted:Seems to be the thing with any long-standing hobby. The hardcore, longstanding participants (suppliers and consumers) seem hellbent on making the hobby as difficult and expensive to get into as they possibly can. Funny enough, Basic D&D seems to be the Edition of choice for emulation among many OSR gamers. In spite of its wide banner of giving homage to pre-WotC editions of D&D, support for 1st and 2nd Edition AD&D are few and far between.
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Dec 24, 2014 04:45
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Huh, and I thought I was the only one who basically thought of AD&D as a collection of random optional rules for Basic.
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Dec 24, 2014 04:53
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Hodgepodge posted:Huh, and I thought I was the only one who basically thought of AD&D as a collection of random optional rules for Basic.
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Dec 24, 2014 05:05
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Weren't significant portions of the rules mutually exclusive, or clearly labeled as optional?
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Dec 24, 2014 05:08
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Jedi425 posted:It's worth noting that he also wrote some of the only tolerable Star Wars EU books, which is quite the accomplishment. Aaron Allston who wrote the RC and Aaron Allston who wrote Wraith Squadron are one and the same?!  Yub yub, Commander 
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Dec 24, 2014 05:41
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Libertad! posted:Funny enough, Basic D&D seems to be the Edition of choice for emulation among many OSR gamers. In spite of its wide banner of giving homage to pre-WotC editions of D&D, support for 1st and 2nd Edition AD&D are few and far between. In my experience, people hard into AD&D don't want an emulation, they want Literally AD&D, played with using GARY'S TRUE WORDS.
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Dec 24, 2014 07:59
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ProfessorCirno posted:In my experience, people hard into AD&D don't want an emulation, they want Literally AD&D, played with using GARY'S TRUE WORDS. I can only imagine what the RPG fandom will be like in 30 years: Obsessed fans of FATE FIVE compiling decades worth of Fred Hicks G+ posts on minor thoughts on game design he experienced while playing Fire Emblem or something and taking it as an authoritative word; Monsterhearts fans mind-typing 2,000+ screeds into their cybernetic implants of how Topher's Skins for the Skinless marked the end of a golden age; Pathfinder Revitalized fans who forgotten the game's 3rd Edition roots, insisting that Combat Maneuver Stunts always existed and were actually developed as a house rule in Monte Cook's home games. Libertad! fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Dec 24, 2014 |
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Dec 24, 2014 08:17
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Libertad! posted:Monsterhearts fans mind-typing 2,000+ screeds into their cybernetic implants of how Topher's Skins for the Skinless marked the end of a golden age.
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Dec 24, 2014 08:20
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ProfessorCirno posted:In my experience, people hard into AD&D don't want an emulation, they want Literally AD&D, played with using GARY'S TRUE WORDS. Funnily enough, the group I played AD&D with last (well into 3E's run, all the way to the 3.5 revision in fact) were all about modding the game to fit their needs. IME, this whole "play the games out of the book exactly" idea didn't really exist until the internet forums started standardizing play. I'm sort of surprised that grogs push this, since they remember when standardization was not a major thing.
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Dec 24, 2014 15:37
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Yeah, I've learned that it's impossible to argue about AD&D with people who play it, because...actually, they don't play it, AD&D isn't really its own game. It's Basic D&D with a ton of houserules added, and although Gary forgot to write "Optional" at the top of every other paragraph, that's how most people actually use it.
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Dec 24, 2014 15:46
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Halloween Jack posted:I have to make sure I live long enough to argue with these people. According to Legion of Super Heroes, we will be playing D&D well into the 30th century. Not just a knockoff that resembled it, the name "D&D" is specifically dropped. Bearded dreamboat Star Boy and ginger knockout Sun Boy are both into playing it with the aid of holographic tables. I think Paul Levitz might have been a gaming nerd or something, or maybe it was just how popular the Red Box was in the early 80s. Actually it would be interesting to ask him about that and why he decided to make the two hunkiest, dreamiest beefcakes of the Legion gaming dorks. I really need to start a blog that examines the intersection of comics and RPG nerddom sometime. Anyway, I guess this answers the question about whether or not elfgames lose their appeal when you actually fight evil space wizards in real life. 
Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Dec 24, 2014 |
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Dec 24, 2014 16:03
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rkajdi posted:Funnily enough, the group I played AD&D with last (well into 3E's run, all the way to the 3.5 revision in fact) were all about modding the game to fit their needs. IME, this whole "play the games out of the book exactly" idea didn't really exist until the internet forums started standardizing play. I'm sort of surprised that grogs push this, since they remember when standardization was not a major thing. AD&D was published with the express intent of standardizing play across groups for tournaments, and modules like Tomb of Horrors were tournament modules. Yeah, that's kind of an alien mindset today isn't it.
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Dec 24, 2014 16:04
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Rulebook Heavily posted:AD&D was published with the express intent of standardizing play across groups for tournaments, and modules like Tomb of Horrors were tournament modules. It does seem useful for that purpose, and Tomb of Horrors makes more sense when you look at it in that perspective. TSR sure didn't account for jerkoff DMs and rules lawyers though.
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Dec 24, 2014 16:06
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Rulebook Heavily posted:AD&D was published with the express intent of standardizing play across groups for tournaments, and modules like Tomb of Horrors were tournament modules. That kind of sounds like an analog version of an MMO raid and being able to swap stories about "oh man, remember how hard Vaelastrasz was?" with anyone who's ever played WoW at that stage.
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Dec 24, 2014 16:13
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gradenko_2000 posted:That kind of sounds like an analog version of an MMO raid and being able to swap stories about "oh man, remember how hard Vaelastrasz was?" with anyone who's ever played WoW at that stage. Pretty much, which makes the pearl clutching about 4e being WoW even more hilarious.
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Dec 24, 2014 16:13
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Lightning Lord posted:According to Legion of Super Heroes, we will be playing D&D well into the 30th century. Not just a knockoff that resembled it, the name "D&D" is specifically dropped. Bearded dreamboat Star Boy and ginger knockout Sun Boy are both into playing it with the aid of holographic tables. I think Paul Levitz might have been a gaming nerd or something, or maybe it was just how popular the Red Box was in the early 80s. Actually it would be interesting to ask him about that and why he decided to make the two hunkiest, dreamiest beefcakes of the Legion gaming dorks. I really need to start a blog that examines the intersection of comics and RPG nerddom sometime. Anyway, I guess this answers the question about whether or not elfgames lose their appeal when you actually fight evil space wizards in real life. In the future, D&D will be played by bearded men who are still identified as boys? That's not a shock. Edit: Is Lightning Lad in their group?
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Dec 24, 2014 16:16
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Halloween Jack posted:In the future, D&D will be played by bearded men who are still identified as boys? That's not a shock. Despite the fact that I'm into the comic myself, Legion fandom at large is weird, exclusionary and likes to hermetically seal itself off from the rest of DC Comics fandom. The comparison is perfect... He plays a couple of times but he's more a casual gamer. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Dec 24, 2014 |
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Dec 24, 2014 16:18
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gradenko_2000 posted:That kind of sounds like an analog version of an MMO raid and being able to swap stories about "oh man, remember how hard Vaelastrasz was?" with anyone who's ever played WoW at that stage. Online and computer play turned out to be really good for a lot of this kind of gameplay style. Hex-and-counter wargames embraced it, and certain kinds of quite mainstream, supported and popular RPG styles did too! But remember, tabletop quote:
I'm pretty sure I remember seeing someone derogatorily referring to AD&D 2e as pen and paper Nethack on Usenet. Turtles all the way down.
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Dec 24, 2014 16:46
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Dec 25, 2014 00:09
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#Tabletopgate?
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Dec 25, 2014 00:13
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Actually, it's about ethics in tabletop verisimilitude.
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Dec 25, 2014 00:22
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Holy hit, Kikestarter, that's... Wow.
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Dec 25, 2014 00:34
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Mors Rattus posted:Holy hit, Kikestarter, that's... Yeah it's really odd, I've seen a lot of people complaining about Dungeon World of late who use that.
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Dec 25, 2014 00:36
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I literally haven't seen that particular antisemitic slur in years, why is it making a comeback?
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Dec 25, 2014 00:37
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 23:06 |
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Mors Rattus posted:I literally haven't seen that particular antisemitic slur in years, why is it making a comeback? Gamergate has put 4chan front and center in "gamer" culture, and it's an extremely anti-semitic website.
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Dec 25, 2014 00:41
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